Post regular season thoughts

[Jiggafini19Deux]

If the administration lets Marcus Freeman play ball a little bit in the new era of college football (Portal and NIL), he just needs to get a championship caliber QB who has some kind of legit NFL ceiling that can lead them to a National Championship. Otherwise, this perpetual cycle the program has been in since 1994 is going to continue.

That's my post regular season thought.

 

[Free Manera]

If the administration lets Marcus Freeman play ball a little bit in the new era of college football (Portal and NIL), he just needs to get a championship caliber QB who has some kind of legit NFL ceiling that can lead them to a National Championship. Otherwise, this perpetual cycle the program has been in since 1994 is going to continue.

That's my post regular season thought.

My feeling for awhile has been that ND cannot actually compete if they don't take undergrad transfers. They can "compete" like they did under BK which means win a lot of games, maybe go undefeated if the schedule is weak, but have no real shot to win a championship.

Here is what is going to happen if they don't start taking undergrads:

1. A handful of players are going to transfer out every year, like they already do.

2. This will happen at every other top 15 program as well.

3. Those schools will fill their roster holes with upgrades from the portal in most cases.

4. ND will fill their roster holes with grad transfers and recruits. Grad transfers are players that have been in school for 3 or 4 years. Meaning they will play a 4th or 5th year at ND rather than go to the NFL. That is not what ND needs.

5. ND's margin of error for hitting on high schoolers becomes razor thin because the competition is signing 6 star transfers. Those few big roster holes (like QB, WR, and safety this year) will make games against the elites almost unwinnable without a ton of luck or an absolute otherworldly QB.

6. ND will end up chasing USC, OSU, Bama, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, etc. in perpetuity.


I wish I believed ND and Freeman could recruit their way to an elite roster. Unfortunately recruiting is only half the game now. Recruit and develop high schoolers is part 1, evaluate the roster and transfer portal to fill holes is part 2. Champions will do both, every year.

 

[NDohio]

Needs from Transfer Portal.
QB- 1
WR 1-2
OG- if he’s an immediate starter yes
DE- 1-2
DT- 1
S- 1

I think this list could be put into two categories:

MUST HAVE
QB
DE
DT
WANT
WR
S

I will also add that we may need to hit the portal for kickers in the off season as well.

Overall though I think the program is healthy. The 2022 class and the incoming 2023 are both stacked with a ton of talent. These back-to-back classes will be the best two year haul for ND in some time. If MF can fill the needs through the portal, then next year can be quite successful.

I am also excited to see how much Freeman is different having a full season under his belt and an off season of not having to rebuild a coaching staff, but instead an off season of recruiting for 2024 and portal players. His growth through the season was evident, can his off season growth but just as evident?

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Feeling very meh about this team and the season, which is at least better than the utter despondency I was experiencing in September and October. Just hard to feel anything but blah about an 8-4 record, but I'll praise to the skies any Irish team that can go 10-2 or better in a regular season. Not convinced the Freeman move was a horrible mistake like I was after Marshall and Stanford, but stinks to be waiting till next year again. Any Notre Dame season that ends worse than 9-3 is a failure. Didn't feel like I saw the defensive fire against USC that appeared against Clemson and OSU. Certainly not calling for Freeman's head, but I think next year will define his tenure at ND - if we don't at least get back to the stronger Kelly performances and at least an AP Top 10 finish I think we can say the hire was a mistake.

 

[Green Mountains]

I'm very optimistic about '23 and '24.

By position group:

QB - '23 - We need a transfer. Need to create some depth for Buchner /competition. Buchner hasn't proven he can stay healthy. Hasn't proven he is "the one". Minchey won't be ready to contribute. Doubt Angeli is going to be the guy; '24 - Starting to look loaded - Buchner, Minchey, Angeli, Carr (in waiting)
RB - '23/24 - Estime, Diggs, Tyree, Price, inbound freshman - pick another RB room in the country that's better? It's loaded;
TE - '23/24 - Evans, Staes, Raridon, Bauman, Inbound Flanagan - ND reloads at TE;
OL - '23 - Two All American'ish tackles, need to replace the interior, Spindler, Schrauth, Kristofic, Carmody, Coogan. '24 - replace Alt with Wagner - Fisher with Tosh Baker (I think the big cat stays to be a first rounder in 2025 draft); (plus Craig and Chan coming of age.)
WR - '23 - Styles, Colzie, Thomas, Merryweather - We need some depth for '23. Perhaps a hybrid RB / Slot roll for Tyree. Doubt we lose anyone to the draft in '23. '24 - Add Greathouse and James plus same 4 back. WR talent and depth is coming back, '24 will bring real depth;

DL - Lots of depth - '23 - Mills, Ehrensberger, Bothelto, Onya, Rubio; '24 - Gobaira, Ford, Hinish (big motor - more limited...if he's like his brother)
LB - If you remember the press....huge impact players - '23 - Sneed, Junior, Kollie, Ziegler, Burnham, returning Grads. '24 - Ausberry and Bowen as sophomores add depth, competition. Can ND develop them?
DB - '23 - Benmo, Joseph, Xavier Watts, Clarence Lewis, Jaden Mickey, Philip Riley, Bellamy. '24 - lose Joseph and Watts. Bowen (need to hold on to him) and Gray add great depth.

We tend to lose track of the redshirts we haven't seen especially at Dline and Oline, and it takes a few years for High School bodies to become College bodies. I believe depth for those two units is great. I also believe LB depth and quality will trend up dramatically. WR is looking like more quality and depth in some time. RB is loaded. TE is reloaded. QB needs a '23 grad transfer....then it actually has to produce a top quality talent, but the resumes will be there. DB needs to keep adding depth, but I think good progress has been made over the last couple of classes.

Is ND positioned for a national title run in '23 and/or '24? Will it get remarkable QB play....that's the question. Can Buchner stay healthy in '23? Will a grad transfer have a major impact in '23. Michney can help in '24. I think the talent at other positions is getting close to championship level.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Last thing...guys Pyne was not that bad and improved throughout the year. To magically replace him we're going to need to bring in someone who's actually really good, not just a stopgap. I think Pyne sometimes served as a whipping boy for offensive line and running back play that was not as great as we liked to tell ourselves.

 

[ACamp1900]

Up and down,… I waited to post as I was broken Saturday… still am. Losing to douchebag U seems to impact me much more than a lot of you. I predicted 8-4 with growing pains to start the season so I guess I have no right to complain but I will anyway,… losing to Stanford and SC in the same season stings a lot. Especially with how quickly and at times dirty SC rebuilt,… Not getting a transfer QB turned out to be a big mistake. They cannot make that mistake again. Verdict is still out for me on everything. I thought at a certain point Freeman was the wrong hire,… around Cal and Stanford many here had the same questions and concerns. I’m not convinced either way and I expect next year will clear most of that up,… here’s hoping for a strong recruiting finish, and bowl win and some great transfer portal news.

 

[stlnd01]

Last thing...guys Pyne was not that bad and improved throughout the year. To magically replace him we're going to need to bring in someone who's actually really good, not just a stopgap. I think Pyne sometimes served as a whipping boy for offensive line and running back play that was not as great as we liked to tell ourselves.

Pyne threw very few interceptions and did improve throughout the year. He got better at working his progressions instead of locking on Mayer as he did the first few games, and started to make some very good throws - particularly to Colzie - towards the end of the season. He's a tough kid and a gamer. He absolutely could not get injured, and he managed that. No small feat.

But he limited our offense in massive ways. He missed tons of reads and throws, especially on deep balls and to open RBs in the flats (a big reason Tyree wasn't more effective). He can't see over the line and was good for at least one batted ball per game. A big reason our OL and RBs weren't even better was because (some) defenses had so little respect for Pyne that they loaded the box, and he couldn't make them pay for that. The second half of Navy was absolutely pathetic, and that was the 10th game of the season.

So, no, I don't think we need to bring in Caleb Williams for next year's QB to be an improvement over Pyne. A Jack Coan would do. Probably Buchner.

 

[IA4irish]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

After Stanford, I was really down on Freeman and thought the job may be too big for him. While I'm disappointed in the USC loss, I think that I've seen enough to know that the Marshall/Stanford "stumbles" were just that, and not a sign of a larger issue with the coaching.

Tommy was frustrating, but I think he's the right guy with a decent QB to distribute the football. Limited with Pyne (which is partly on him), but I do think he deserves another season.

I'm absolutely not sold on Golden. I don't see a killer mentality and he seems to be meh on the recruiting trail. I'm not sure what value he adds beyond being a steadying presence in Freeman's first year, but I don't think that's what ND needs to compete for national championships. I hope he moves on.

Finally, it all comes down to next year. Kirby Smart went 8-5 in his first year in Georgia...but followed that with a 11-1 second year. Freeman needs to do the same if we're going to start thinking about national championships, as opposed to nice seasons.

Do we think that freeman would get rid of golden? I don’t know how much he leans on him due to previous head coaching experience. I would think there are better d coordinators out there

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Pyne threw very few interceptions and did improve throughout the year. He got better at working his progressions instead of locking on Mayer as he did the first few games, and started to make some very good throws - particularly to Colzie - towards the end of the season. He's a tough kid and a gamer. He absolutely could not get injured, and he managed that. No small feat.

But he limited our offense in massive ways. He missed tons of reads and throws, especially on deep balls and to open RBs in the flats (a big reason Tyree wasn't more effective). He can't see over the line and was good for at least one batted ball per game. A big reason our OL and RBs weren't even better was because (some) defenses had so little respect for Pyne that they loaded the box, and he couldn't make them pay for that. The second half of Navy was absolutely pathetic, and that was the 10th game of the season.

So, no, I don't think we need to bring in Caleb Williams for next year's QB to be an improvement over Pyne. A Jack Coan would do. Probably Buchner.

I don't know man... Just looking at his stat line for the USC game makes it really difficult for me to be too down on Pyne and certain that a Coan or Buchner is a better option. The fumble was brutal but the game was probably already over by that point - no way we'd win in a shootout.

 

[PigtownIrish]

I will say, Pyne's improvement to ceiling speaks well for Rees' ability to develop a QB. I won't go so far to say he always put Pyne/ND in the best position with playcalling but will give him that.

 

[Luckylucci]

I called for 10-2. I said at the beginning of the season that if the team went less than 10-2 then we got something wrong on the coaching end of things. Still feel that way. This was not an 8-4 roster. In search of outperformance, we fell into underperformance. This is no indictment on the future just the present reality.

And, if we underperform next year the excuses will be about how we lost 2 ND all-timers in Mayer and Foskey. Really disappointing that we literally have two of the very best ND has to offer, ever, at their respective positions and the scoreboard says 8-4. That's not how it's supposed to be.

 

[indianamouse]

I called for 10-2. I said at the beginning of the season that if the team went less than 10-2 then we got something wrong on the coaching end of things. Still feel that way. This was not an 8-4 roster. In search of outperformance, we fell into underperformance. This is no indictment on the future just the present reality.

And, if we underperform next year the excuses will be about how we lost 2 ND all-timers in Mayer and Foskey. Really disappointing that we literally have two of the very best ND has to offer, ever, at their respective positions and the scoreboard says 8-4. That's not how it's supposed to be.

Idk, Foskey didn’t really seem that impressive this year

 

[notredomer23]

Idk, Foskey didn’t really seem that impressive this year

He was third in the country for sacks with 11.

 

[NDohio]

I don't know man... Just looking at his stat line for the USC game makes it really difficult for me to be too down on Pyne and certain that a Coan or Buchner is a better option. The fumble was brutal but the game was probably already over by that point - no way we'd win in a shootout.

If ND scores on that drive it is a 3-point game. In no way, shape, or form was the game over at that point.

 

[NDdomer2]

I called for 10-2. I said at the beginning of the season that if the team went less than 10-2 then we got something wrong on the coaching end of things. Still feel that way. This was not an 8-4 roster. In search of outperformance, we fell into underperformance. This is no indictment on the future just the present reality.

And, if we underperform next year the excuses will be about how we lost 2 ND all-timers in Mayer and Foskey. Really disappointing that we literally have two of the very best ND has to offer, ever, at their respective positions and the scoreboard says 8-4. That's not how it's supposed to be.

unfortuantely there were 2 losses that almost exclusively can be related to preparation and game plan. There's no way in hell a properly planned and prepared 2022 ND team loses to Stanford and Marshall.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

If ND scores on that drive it is a 3-point game. In no way, shape, or form was the game over at that point.

You think we could have gone touchdown for field goals with them the rest of the game the way we were getting torched on defense?

 

[NDohio]

You think we could have gone touchdown for field goals with them the rest of the game the way we were getting torched on defense?

Well, we did.

First quarter score- USC 10 ND 0
Second quarter score- ND 7 USC 7
Third quarter score- ND 7 USC 7
Fourth quarter score- ND 13 USC 14

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Well, we did.

First quarter score- USC 10 ND 0
Second quarter score- ND 7 USC 7
Third quarter score- ND 7 USC 7
Fourth quarter score- ND 13 USC 14

Doesn't look like we held them to a field goal on a single drive. I'm just saying with the way Caleb Williams was doing whatever he wanted to us there was no way we could win while down in the second half.

 

[Giddyup]

Hire Bob Bostad to replace Harry Hiestand. Harry cost us four games this year and two embarrassments. Time to put the old bull out to pasture.

 

[dankgesang]

Hire Bob Bostad to replace Harry Hiestand. Harry cost us four games this year and two embarrassments. Time to put the old bull out to pasture.

 

[lcaps20]

Hire Bob Bostad to replace Harry Hiestand. Harry cost us four games this year and two embarrassments. Time to put the old bull out to pasture.

you're still here?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I called for 10-2. I said at the beginning of the season that if the team went less than 10-2 then we got something wrong on the coaching end of things. Still feel that way. This was not an 8-4 roster. In search of outperformance, we fell into underperformance. This is no indictment on the future just the present reality.

And, if we underperform next year the excuses will be about how we lost 2 ND all-timers in Mayer and Foskey. Really disappointing that we literally have two of the very best ND has to offer, ever, at their respective positions and the scoreboard says 8-4. That's not how it's supposed to be.

One the one hand, I agree. The Marshall and Stanford games are 100% on the staff.

OTOH, would you have guessed 10-2 knowing Tyler Buchner's season ended in the second game?

The season was a disappointment but it gave me the one thing I craved: a glimmer of hope that ND can show better than it has in its biggest games.

 

[irishff1014]

Well, we did.

First quarter score- USC 10 ND 0
Second quarter score- ND 7 USC 7
Third quarter score- ND 7 USC 7
Fourth quarter score- ND 13 USC 14

I was hard on Rees at the beginning of the season. I do believe that he improved with his playcalling, although getting cute at times. I would imagine that if we go to any other fan bases page, we will see the same complaint. The problem is we ended up with way too many zeros in the first quarter yes there was some games we were successful and able to throw the ball around successfully. Just look at USC. But this offense with Pyne at the helm was not designed to do that. You can lose the first quarter 10 -7 or 14 -10 but you can’t continuously get shut out in the first quarter. That in itself can handicap our game plan with the running attack that we tried to establish.

 

[Luckylucci]

Idk, Foskey didn’t really seem that impressive this year

In 12 regular season games he ended with 10.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL's. In his last 25 games played, he has 20.5 sacks and 23 TFL's. He's an elite edge defender.

 

[Irish#1]

Hire Bob Bostad to replace Harry Hiestand. Harry cost us four games this year and two embarrassments. Time to put the old bull out to pasture.

The newbies always seem to have the best takes.

 

[Irish#1]

Idk, Foskey didn’t really seem that impressive this year

You talking about Jace Foskey?

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[Luckylucci]

One the one hand, I agree. The Marshall and Stanford games are 100% on the staff.

OTOH, would you have guessed 10-2 knowing Tyler Buchner's season ended in the second game?

The season was a disappointment but it gave me the one thing I craved: a glimmer of hope that ND can show better than it has in its biggest games.

Tyler Buchner was not prepared to win 10 games this season. Hence his abysmal showing against Marshall before the injury. Post OSU Freeman said "we got ourselves a QB." Then that QB completely shit the bed against a terrible opponent.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Tyler Buchner was not prepared to win 10 games this season. Hence his abysmal showing against Marshall before the injury. Post OSU Freeman said "we got ourselves a QB." Then that QB completely shit the bed against a terrible opponent.

I agree! But it's a fixable thing going forward. So I'm of two minds about all of it. The coaching staff screwed that part up. Maybe they can not screw that up in the future.

 

[Irish#1]

Maybe. Maybe not. We are in big trouble if we’re looking for a QB post spring who lost a battle. Should have been the move last off season in hindsight. I just went up and down a list of QBs who you could realistically imagine entering the portal and found literally only two names where I thought “oh it would stink if he couldn’t get in”

Tyler Van Dyke at Miami and Will Howard at KSU. Pyne’s class so true Juniors so maybe they have not graduated. There’s also DJ U.

Otherwise I’m not seeing the imaginary QBs that the ND admin is handcuffing us from.

Coan says hello.