Post game

[palinurus]

He is coming back. 100% sure he is. Was already looking at apartments and getting together roommates for next year in south bend

This is good info; thanks. Related question: is there a good source re where ND seniors and (God forbid) early leavers might go in the '12 draft? I saw a reference to Mayock's list......

 

[palinurus]

Stanford has played two good teams. USC took them to 3 OT's and Oregon completely blew them off the field.

Notre Dame definitely has a CHANCE, not saying they win in a blowout but they do have a chance.

If they commit zero turnovers they very well could win. The only reason they lost 3 games is because of multiple turnovers.

This is realistic. I wouldn't predict a win, necessarily. But if ND plays with no turnovers, maybe throw a wrinkle or two at Luck, and get healthy on defense, they could definitely win. Stanford is not a juggernaut. I'm from the Holtz school re seniors day game (which this will be for Stanford); kids are so emotional -- "playing with tears in their eyes," as HOltz put it -- that they often don't play their best in that game.

 

[palinurus]

If one chooses to slam someone for using a word that isn't a word, one might want to confirm that the word is indeed not a word.

negativism - definition of negativism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Score one for the professor.

I seem to remember someone, maybe Spiro Agnew, criticizing the media or ivory tower types or someone as the "nattering nabobs of negativism." Not sure whether "negativity" or "negativism" is the right word here, but they are both words.

Re this dispute with Dillon Hall, as a relatively new visitor myself (not in terms of time, but in number of posts), I think that, generally, folks ought to be a little more tolerant of contrary posts. I think it's a sad use of social control to give a poster negative rep for not being "positive enough."

I say that because, unless someone is a troll, it's all part of being a fan -- kicking around the good and bad. It's ironic, because you would think our love of the Irish and wanting them to do well, and living and dying with them, like I think most of us do, would be something to unite us against a lot of college fans (and others) who really really hate Notre Dame (I've seen it at games, in chat rooms, a lot of places) -- for being great, for being Catholic, for being different -- for a lot of reasons.

Not to mention names, but the irony is I'd bet serious money that I have the same values as some of the folks who are pretty aggressively policing the site against "negative" posts, acting as though a question or comment is evidence of dangerous heterodoxy. Well, I can't compare our love of ND, because I can't see into your hearts, but I know how I feel about ND -- it's a place I've loved since I was 7 years old, a place I would have died to have gone to, if only things had worked out. But somehow a critical comment or question makes you as welcome as Jimmy Johnson doing beer bongs at the Grotto.

All I can say to you long timers is -- I wish you'd be a little more welcoming of alternative perspectives. I say this with respect because I think this is a pretty darn good site.

 

[palinurus]

Just thought it was funny. And I generally agree with you. I don't like negativism (see, I used it), for the most part, but you have the right to post that way. I do get frustrated when it starts to become condescending and taunting..."you just don't see things in a real way like I do," etc.

Thanks. And I didn't mean to imply you were out of bounds at all. I just used your "negativism" comment as a chance to agree with your post on the word, as well as comment on the bigger issue. I don't like the oppressive negativism, either, though the last decade or so has built some callouses for me that have needed/will need time, success, humor and anger to soften into optimism....

 

[Jason Pham]

Folks, one last warning. Please keep the discussion civil. Nothing is added to your posts by insulting one another and as some of the newer posters have just mentioned, it's not healthy for the boards.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Folks, one last warning. Please keep the discussion civil. Nothing is added to your posts by insulting one another and as some of the newer posters have just mentioned, it's not healthy for the boards.

Sorry, boss. Retracted.

Please feel free to delete my quotes in the previous few posts.

 

[Grahambo]

To say Maryland is not a very good team is accurate however, let's dig a little deeper at their body of work.

They beat a Miami team on national television on opening night when Miami was supposed to have a good, rebound year. Turns out they are just average at best.

They lose by 6 to West Virginia the next week but looking at WVA, the only win they had that would be considered good was last week against a ranked Cinncy team. Take that for what you will unless you consider Rutgers to be a good team.

Moving forward a few weeks after a loss to Temple and a win over Towson, they play GA Tech to the tune of a 21-16 loss. By the way, GA Tech lost to Miami but do have wins over UNC, and Clemson.

Next up is Clemson and despite the loss, they put up 45 points.

Next come losses to FLA ST, BC, UVA, and ND.

If I recall correctly, Maryland (Randy Edsall) has suspended quite a few players from the team and also have two of their captains out for the year.

You take from this game the 45 points scored, the 10-16 on 3rd down, 508 total yards, 212 yards rushing, 0 turnovers, 3 penalties, an INT/forced fumble, 34 mins TOP, no injuries, a 52 yard FG, a Ben Turk punt that went further then 35 yards through the air (58 yards), and our defense holding them to 14 points (backups gave up the last one).

This isn't a season defining win, a program changing win, or something that proves we belong in the BCS. This is, however, what you are SUPPOSED to do to an inferior opponent and this is another STEP in a process that must take time to develop. Also the first time we saw the uptempo BK offense take hold and it looked damn good. Back to back very good OVERALL recruiting classes have this team trending upwards. LSU gets Northwestern State and Western Kentucky, Alabama gets Kent State, North Texas, Ole Miss, Oregon gets Missouri State, Arizona, and Colorado.

#37 in passing yards
#41 in rushing yards
#28 in points scored
#27 in points against
#24 in the AP Poll

#1 in our hearts.

 

[irishtrinity]

Folks, one last warning. Please keep the discussion civil. Nothing is added to your posts by insulting one another and as some of the newer posters have just mentioned, it's not healthy for the boards.

Really sad to see..

 

[irishtrinity]

What I don't understand is if Notre Dame wins a close game, people complain. If they win in a blowout, they complain.

Is there every a game to sit back and say "wow that was fun to watch and the team is now 7-3. It is a great day."?

Thank you...

 

[irishtrinity]

For those who thought it was a great game for ND the replay is on vs at 2pm..

I'm recording it because the helmets/uniforms were pimp....

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

How fun was it watching Wood and Gray! Those guys were electric!

 

[tko]

How fun was it watching Wood and Gray! Those guys were electric!

It's fun watching a balanced attack. I also enjoyed watching Eifert do what he does best along with a stellar block from Wood. It can be contagious making a great block to spring your teammate for a score.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

TKO, you are correct. We are so lucky to have such stars on this team. Eifert, Floyd, Teo, Lynch, Tuitt, Harrison, Wood/Gray.

Just a pleasure to watch. And that block by Wood, special.

So, much fun. Beating teams we are suppose to beat!!

Go Irish!

 

[BobD]

Hey genius Jayhawk, who said negativism wasn't a word? They're both words but they're not synonyms in the context that he used it (positive/negative). Look up the definition first before making a fool of yourself.

OK DILLIONHALL!!, I'm sure your a good person, but I have to say something here. WHY IS IT THAT EVERYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH YOU SEEMS TO BE NEGATIVE? All day yesterday, I cant remember seeing anything positive from you, now this confrontational negativity first thing in the morning. Take a deep breath and a chill pill buddy. Please.

 

[DillonHall]

OK DILLIONHALL!!, I'm sure your a good person, but I have to say something here. WHY IS IT THAT EVERYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH YOU SEEMS TO BE NEGATIVE? All day yesterday, I cant remember seeing anything positive from you, now this confrontational negativity first thing in the morning. Take a deep breath and a chill pill buddy. Please.

I really don't understand what's going on? I have not said a single thing criticizing ANY player or coach after the Maryland game. I'm simply not excited about the win because we played exactly how we should have. Just because I haven't been overly positive does not mean that I've been negative. There's a middle ground there, and that's where I've consistently been (nonchalant about a win over a terrible team). And guess what? The majority of the students on campus feel the same way that I do!! You guys are the fanatics without the proper perspective!

Having said that, I challenge you to find a post from me that's negative!! While you search, you'll probably come across my prediction that Wood and Gray would combine for 2000 rushing yards by the end of the year (positive) and reiterated my prediction that we'd have a shot to beat Stanford (positive). Just because I said we wouldn't make the BCS even at 9-3 doesn't mean I'm negative; anyone making a bet on this would be on my side.

Unbelievable...but seriously, look through my posts and find ones that you deem to be too 'negative' and refer me to them.

 

[Jason Pham]

I really don't understand what's going on? I have not said a single thing criticizing ANY player or coach after the Maryland game. I'm simply not excited about the win because we played exactly how we should have. Just because I haven't been overly positive does not mean that I've been negative. There's a middle ground there, and that's where I've consistently been (nonchalant about a win over a terrible team). And guess what? The majority of the students on campus feel the same way that I do!! You guys are the fanatics without the proper perspective!

Having said that, I challenge you to find a post from me that's negative!! While you search, you'll probably come across my prediction that Wood and Gray would combine for 2000 rushing yards by the end of the year (positive) and reiterated my prediction that we'd have a shot to beat Stanford (positive). Just because I said we wouldn't make the BCS even at 9-3 doesn't mean I'm negative; anyone making a bet on this would be on my side.

Unbelievable...but seriously, look through my posts and find ones that you deem to be too 'negative' and refer me to them.

I don't think it's as much your point of view but the tenor of your posts that's irking people. Telling others they don't have the "proper perspective" is a smug way to have a conversation. You know it's smug because people above have responded to you in the same way. I'm not going to tolerate it from them and I'm going to ask you to do the same of yourself.

As for whether you've been negative: I don't think you're a pessimistic poster by nature, but to say that nothing can be learned from (or impliedly that there is little cause for satisfaction that can be found in) the Maryland game is almost as bombastic as those thinking that we've arrived. There is a well-defined middle ground between those two points of views as described several times in above posts.

 

[koonja]

Let's be honest, there's a ton of optimism/bias on these boards. We're all ND fans, so it makes sense. If a realist comes on and makes a critical observation, he gets bashed because almost every thread has a pro-ND spin to it. I think we should create a thread for people who want to look at the said-item with an objective eye. Over-happy/positive people can stay out if they don't like the so called 'negativity'. We can hide it in leprechaun lounge or somewhere so people don't get their undies in a bundle. Thoughts?

 

[DillonHall]

I don't think it's as much your point of view but the tenor of your posts that's irking people. Telling others they don't have the "proper perspective" is a smug way to have a conversation. You know it's smug because people above have responded to you in the same way. I'm not going to tolerate it from them and I'm going to ask you to do the same of yourself.

As for whether you've been negative: I don't think you're a pessimistic poster by nature, but to say that nothing can be learned from (or impliedly that there is little cause for satisfaction that can be found in) the Maryland game is almost as bombastic as those thinking that we've arrived. There is a well-defined middle ground between those two points of views as described several times in above posts.

I understand, but I've asked this question and have yet to receive a straight answer. What did we learn from beating Maryland that already didn't know?

 

[DillonHall]

Let's be honest, there's a ton of optimism/bias on these boards. We're all ND fans, so it makes sense. If a realist comes on and makes a critical observation, he gets bashed because almost every thread has a pro-ND spin to it. I think we should create a thread for people who want to look at the said-item with an objective eye. Over-happy/positive people can stay out if they don't like the so called 'negativity'. We can hide it in leprechaun lounge or somewhere so people don't get their undies in a bundle. Thoughts?

Finally someone gets my viewpoint!

 

[Jason Pham]

Let's be honest, there's a ton of optimism/bias on these boards. We're all ND fans, so it makes sense. If a realist comes on and makes a critical observation, he gets bashed because almost every thread has a pro-ND spin to it. I think we should create a thread for people who want to look at the said-item with an objective eye. Over-happy/positive people can stay out if they don't like the so called 'negativity'. We can hide it in leprechaun lounge or somewhere so people don't get their undies in a bundle. Thoughts?

The problem isn't with the point of view. The problem is circling your point of view with a dividing line and calling everything within in "objective" and everything outside of it, by implication, senseless. I'm going to allow discussion over the merits of a point of view, but I'm not going to tolerate it when people demean purely for having a different point of view. If you run into a problem, message me about it. I have as much of an interest in lively debate as anyone else.

 

[Jason Pham]

I understand, but I've asked this question and have yet to receive a straight answer. What did we learn from beating Maryland that already didn't know?

I'd say what we learned was that this team is capable of shutting down opponents it should shut down, which is a contrast from what we've seen over the last few years. You say it's not exciting, and it really isn't, but it's a step in the right direction, especially considering the bafflement that you and I both witnessed from the student section over the last few years. I'm almost to the point where I can consistently be comfortable watching the third and fourth quarters of a game. Is it enough? Absolutely not. Were expectations unrealistically high for this season? Probably. What it is is an indicator that a program that was mired in sub-mediocrity, that hardly had any give-me games (or at least couldn't take them as they were given), may finally be on its way to a point where even the most scrutinizing fan may be satisfied. Maybe that's not cause for celebration, but I don't think there is no satisfaction that can be had in the progress.

 

[DillonHall]

I'd say what we learned was that this team is capable of shutting down opponents it should shut down, which is a contrast from what we've seen over the last few years. You say it's not exciting, and it really isn't, but it's a step in the right direction, especially considering the bafflement that you and I both witnessed from the student section over the last few years. I'm almost to the point where I can consistently be comfortable watching the third and fourth quarters of a game. Is it enough? Absolutely not. Were expectations unrealistically high for this season? Probably. What it is is an indicator that a program that was mired in sub-mediocrity, that hardly had any give-me games (or at least couldn't take them as they were given), may finally be on its way to a point where even the most scrutinizing fan may be satisfied. Maybe that's not cause for celebration, but I don't think there is no satisfaction that can be had in the progress.

Purdue, Air Force, Navy...been there, done that.

 

[ryno 24]

Purdue, Air Force, Navy...been there, done that.

I agree with both you and JPham but he is right here.

Yes this is no big deal (maryland is terrible I was even able flip channels and watch bama and oregon)

But before this year we had not been able to really do this. Remember Purdue two years ago or countless others where we won in the last second. We say its fun and it shows resiliance but in reality those games show more negatives than positives.

This game shows that the program is going in the correct direction

 

[Jason Pham]

Purdue, Air Force, Navy...been there, done that.

Clearly Maryland isn't the first team we've soundly beaten and the game should be tacked onto the list you've rattled off. But consistent performance has been foreign to the Notre Dame football team as of late. We're not obviously consistent yet, but soundly beating outmatched opponents generally precedes getting after evenly matched or superior opponents. You say we have a shot at Stanford this year. Not sure you could have realistically said that over the last few years. I think that's progress worth noting.

EDIT: And, yea, it's depressing that this is the state of Irish football but after watching Navy take care of us three times during my five years on campus... I think it's a realistic look at things.

 

[BGIF]

What a joke...yeah this is my first year following sports *** hole.

The ad hominem is sufficient confirmation.

 

[DillonHall]

I understand what you guys are saying, and I completely agree that this program is going in the right direction. However, I don't think that THIS ONE GAME against Maryland doesn't prove much because we've already moved past the point where we beat up on bad teams (see Navy, Purdue, Air Force). This game just adds to that list. Therefore, I don't think this game alone shows much progress because we've already played this way against similar opponents. In other words, we'd already accomplished this, and you can't see we've progressed further until beating better opponents (haha...maybe you guys are the ones that are pessimistic and are afraid of losing to bad teams). Do you see where I'm coming from?

 

[Jason Pham]

Guys, cut the antagonism out of this. I've issued my warnings. Let's move on because this conversation is worth having.

 

[DillonHall]

The ad hominem is sufficient confirmation.

My response was completely unprompted, right?

 

[Jason Pham]

I understand what you guys are saying, and I completely agree that this program is going in the right direction. However, I don't think that THIS ONE GAME against Maryland doesn't prove much because we've already moved past the point where we beat up on bad teams (see Navy, Purdue, Air Force). This game just adds to that list. Therefore, I don't think this game alone shows much progress because we've already played this way against similar opponents. In other words, we'd already accomplished this, and you can't see we've progressed further until beating better opponents (haha...maybe you guys are the ones that are pessimistic and are afraid of losing to bad teams). Do you see where I'm coming from?

I think we agree! Maryland isn't a program-defining game, but it shouldn't be discounted as a part of the process. If we had lost or even let them hang, it would have shown that maybe we aren't making the progress it looked like we were making. That we soundly took care of Maryland is a measure, however small, that we're still moving in the right direction. It's nowhere to stop and be contented, but it's a recognizable stop on our way to our destination. In any case, I think we understand one another.

 

[FLDomer]

"Dan fox takes horrible angles."

Could not agree more, my question, is who is a worse LB, Calabrese or Fox???