Post-Game Thoughts: 2017 Blue-Gold Game

[Downinthebend]

man, still gonna get drilled. I assume a lot of the freedom Kizer had at the line of scrimmage to completely change play calls is gone with Long's offense? It's going to be the RPO called and make the right read?

If he cancels the mesh and throws and still gets hit that would be roughing, which might not be ideal but at least its a 15 yard penalty extra.

I thinnk what Downinthebend is suggesting is that Wimbush is reading Hayes to either pull or give and then reading the backer/overhang safety which is Elliot (I think, don't have my glasses on) to determine keep or throw.

But this play looks hella screwed from the get go if you ask me. It's hard to even see how that could be the case. Not to mention, Wimbush didn't even try to pull so maybe I'm misreading what Downinthebend is suggesting.

It honestly looks like the blocking was blown to me. Seems like Hayes shouldn't have been left and should have been picked up by the tackle. Then the read is on Elliot alone. If he comes down, pass in the open zone behind him, if he drops, make the hand off.

Not blown play, its a second level pre-snap RPO tied to a zone read.

Both II and ISD podcasts had the theory that BK and Chip wanted to see Wimbush and Book deal with the stress of having free pass rushers coming at them and having to make good reads/roll outs under duress..

The roll outs are 100% intended to have the edge blocker unblocked, the only difference is that the edgerusher is supposed to be chipped a bit to give the QB an advantage, so perhaps thats where II/ISD are coming from

 

[BeauBenken]

Not blown play, its a second level pre-snap RPO tied to a zone read.

Which I can acknowledge as fair, but the play will get destroyed then. Even had Wimbush not meshed as you suggest, then he still would have gotten smoked. Hayes arrived faster than the route.

 

[Downinthebend]

Which I can acknowledge as fair, but the play will get destroyed then. Even had Wimbush not meshed as you suggest, then he still would have gotten smoked. Hayes arrived faster than the route.

Yes, I'm hugely not a fan of that concept (unblocked edge + most rpos). The only Rpo's i'd like to take with it are triple option RPOs (so two people aren't being read simultaneously) and formational pre-snap Rpos (think bubble/screen).

 

[woolybug25]

Yes, I'm hugely not a fan of that concept (unblocked edge + most rpos). The only Rpo's i'd like to take with it are triple option RPOs (so two people aren't being read simultaneously) and formational pre-snap Rpos (think bubble/screen).

If the bubble screen died forever I would rejoice in an overwhelming scene of exuberance.

 

[NDdomer2]

Yes, I'm hugely not a fan of that concept (unblocked edge + most rpos). The only Rpo's i'd like to take with it are triple option RPOs (so two people aren't being read simultaneously) and formational pre-snap Rpos (think bubble/screen).

As we all know ND does not get the benefit of most calls. I wouldn't count on the refs protecting wimbush on bang bang plays like that one, unless it's clear hit to head.

I know Gruden absolutely hates RPO's for reasons you've mentioned but they are the bees knees in today's football.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

As we all know ND does not get the benefit of most calls. I wouldn't count on the refs protecting wimbush on bang bang plays like that one, unless it's clear hit to head.

I know Gruden absolutely hates RPO's for reasons you've mentioned but they are the bees knees in today's football.

So are you saying, "Even Bee's get busted up knees on RPO/s?"

I played on a high school team forty years ago that was rpo based from a split or power I formation that averaged 380-400 yards per game. It wasn't any worse than any other offense as far as injuries. Setup is everything.

 

[NDdomer2]

So are you saying, "Even Bee's get busted up knees on RPO/s?"

I played on a high school team forty years ago that was rpo based from a split or power I formation that averaged 380-400 yards per game. It wasn't any worse than any other offense as far as injuries. Setup is everything.

i've heard bee's knees have no acl's so at least we dont have to worry about tearing those!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Actually, they are on the outside, so they can be replaced easily with rubber bands.

 

[Dizzyphil]

If the bubble screen died forever I would rejoice in an overwhelming scene of exuberance.

Wasted play IMO. In the past 6 years, I believe I've seen it break over 10 yards 13 or 14 times. Not worth it as many times it has been run on average.

 

[Downinthebend]

I really don't get the bubble screen hate.

 

[NDdomer2]

Wasted play IMO. In the past 6 years, I believe I've seen it break over 10 yards 13 or 14 times. Not worth it as many times it has been run on average.

How many times have u seen it go for 4/5 yards is the real question.

 

[Downinthebend]

Wasted play IMO. In the past 6 years, I believe I've seen it break over 10 yards 13 or 14 times. Not worth it as many times it has been run on average.

"over 10" is a absolutely ridiculous standard for a play that is basically a run.

 

[Dizzyphil]

How many times have u seen it go for 4/5 yards is the real question.

Enough times to see it go for no gain or loss of yardage than 4/5 yards for a gain - if that is what you are asking. No I don't have real stats but, I would lay money the odds are not good for it to be a positive over a couple of yards as many times it is run.

 

[Dizzyphil]

"over 10" is a absolutely ridiculous standard for a play that is basically a run.

exactly my point....

 

[Downinthebend]

Enough times to see it go for no gain or loss of yardage than 4/5 yards for a gain - if that is what you are asking. No I don't have real stats but, I would lay money the odds are not good for it to be a positive over a couple of yards as many times it is run.

You don't have real stats because you are only going off of perception. I checked my charting, the plays I have as pre-snap RPOS (note I only charted the first half of the season), I think only one of them is sorta a bubble.

Here are the RPOs
https://youtu.be/qx3bcx3c49o?t=11m32s
https://youtu.be/VGU8o9k6eEo?t=1m22s
https://youtu.be/VGU8o9k6eEo?t=6m15s
https://youtu.be/gv6IpuEWCbc?t=2m16s
https://youtu.be/gv6IpuEWCbc?t=6m50s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=2m8s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=3m7s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=6m4s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=7m21s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=8m18s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=9m11s

If you want to know why plays like bubble and the now screen are so important check out this great blogpost HIGH SPEED SPREAD FOOTBALL: FOOTBALL MATH: Greater than, Equal to, or Less than… Throwing a bubble for a small gain, actually helps the running back drastically.

 

[Dizzyphil]

You don't have real stats because you are only going off of perception. I checked my charting, the plays I have as pre-snap RPOS (note I only charted the first half of the season), I think only one of them is sorta a bubble.

Here are the RPOs
https://youtu.be/qx3bcx3c49o?t=11m32s
https://youtu.be/VGU8o9k6eEo?t=1m22s
https://youtu.be/VGU8o9k6eEo?t=6m15s
https://youtu.be/gv6IpuEWCbc?t=2m16s
https://youtu.be/gv6IpuEWCbc?t=6m50s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=2m8s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=3m7s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=6m4s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=7m21s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=8m18s
https://youtu.be/UcdQwbqfgOM?t=9m11s

If you want to know why plays like bubble and the now screen are so important check out this great blogpost HIGH SPEED SPREAD FOOTBALL: FOOTBALL MATH: Greater than, Equal to, or Less than… Throwing a bubble for a small gain, actually helps the running back drastically.

I don't like the bubble-screen play. Plain and simple.

 

[Downinthebend]

I don't like the bubble-screen play. Plain and simple.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

 

[Dizzyphil]

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

fine post.... you crack me up.

 

[woolybug25]

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

The best part is that you didn't embed the meme. Just pasted the link to it. Ha

 

[Downinthebend]

The best part is that you didn't embed the meme. Just pasted the link to it. Ha

Tried several times, couldn't get it to work, and yes I see the irony.

 

[NDdomer2]

Enough times to see it go for no gain or loss of yardage than 4/5 yards for a gain - if that is what you are asking. No I don't have real stats but, I would lay money the odds are not good for it to be a positive over a couple of yards as many times it is run.

And how many times have you seen us line up on downs with 2, 1, or less to go, get in a clear run read and get stopped.

It's a run play, it's going to have a low average gain.

 

[ND NYC]

so, no "post BG Game" commits this year?

 

[Crazy Balki]

so, no "post BG Game" commits this year?

Nope. Weren't expecting any. All the visitors weren't ready to announce.

 

[NDdomer2]

so, no "post BG Game" commits this year?

Sounds like DT J. Franklin is in but waiting for 'rents to visit iirc.

 

[T-Boone]

All the guys that might have committed early already did in that great flurry a few months back.

 

[irishtrain]

I drove up from Ga to see the game and to also judge for myself what is on the field. No x s and o s here in my impression just a judgment on talent and overall feel for what I saw. First the offense is two deep across the board and that includes QB. O line, backs, receivers it could be a prolific offense. The O line talent really jumps out at you. I was impressed with the 2nd team QB and Wimbush has a hose but the other kid could be a productive kid who could play. Yeh I know it was the spring game but he was better for me that day in applied practice habits than Wimbush. Lastly on the positive side the DB s were rangey long and more athletic than I expected. I see them as a big positive. Lastly I will say this about the front 7 on both 1st and 2nd team defense------he better have a tremendous ability to scheme and anticipate what the opponent is going to do because for me there is not enough talent there to stop the better teams in college football that are on our schedule. All this may be wrong but that's my take from a seeing the game live. Also some of the vets looked to me to have put on nice bulk in the right areas---like Smythe, Adams, Hayes and some of the kid lineman. There is not enough defense on the field that I saw to get excited about this year. They'll have trouble stopping the good teams and Wimbush could catch hell if the offense cant control the game. Prolific offense potential but I think the wins/loses may not be too sporty. The game and campus was nice to see again and even better how many kids were able to get in because of the relaxed atmosphere and $12 tickets. Glad I drove up.

 

[dublinirish]

https://www.18stripes.com/the-chip-long-nd-offense-part-1-intro/

 

[Dizzyphil]

RPO=goosebumps

 

[Downinthebend]

https://www.18stripes.com/the-chip-long-nd-offense-part-1-intro/

<3

 

[Dizzyphil]

https://www.18stripes.com/the-chip-long-nd-offense-part-1-intro/

<3

Really good article...

I surely hope BK sticks to his word and Long calls the plays. I know we didn't see what's to come until gameday. But as soon as the RPO is broken out, I really feel the offense would be hard to contain.