Post Game Observations....

[CarrollVermin]

This has been a great thread to read. At the end of the day, you either trust Kelly to get it done or you don't. The talent is there. The telling part for me was the way that the players were talking after the game. They get it...now they have to go out and do it.

 

[mrmiller8]

It's just particularly painful to be outplayed by Michigan. They are a recruiting rival one less year into their rebuilding phase - which started from lower down (Rich Rod left their program more bereft of talent than Weis did) and at this moment in time their future looks brighter.

Your right they are a year behind the Irish in the new regime. However, ND played for a NC last year. They lost a lot of key guys and gotta get back to work. I truly believe that the only game left on the schedule that ND will lose is Stanford at Stanford. USC, purdue, M. State, Oklahome, they all look like crap. BYU scares me. Win 9 or ten games, get Golson back (not that I hate tommy but he isn't the future of the program) and let these recruits spend 2 or 3 years in Paul Longo's strength and conditioning program and you have a program, not just a team.

 

[koonja]

That PI on Jackson where he made the interception really killed us. He tapped his toe in bounds didn't he? At that point, we were down 7 and ~5 minutes to go. The way we were moving the ball on offense, I have little doubt that we would have gone into overtime against them. That call absolutely ****ed us.

Other thoughts:

- Defense got pressure. Gardner played like Vince Young at Texas. Not much you can do about that.

- GA III needs to see less and less playing time. Freshman more, I'm hoping.

- Amir is a good RB.

- OL was awesome I thought.

- Tommy made a few mistakes, but we didn't lose because of him. He played pretty well I thought.

- We are the better team, but they had the best player tonight. Gardner went into Lebron in Cleveland mode, and there was nothing we could do.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

After that horrible PI call. I just threw up my hands and said f the ACC.

 

[stlnd01]

That PI on Jackson where he made the interception really killed us. He tapped his toe in bounds didn't he? At that point, we were down 7 and ~5 minutes to go. The way we were moving the ball on offense, I have little doubt that we would have gone into overtime against them. That call absolutely ****ed us.

Other thoughts:

- Defense got pressure. Gardner played like Vince Young at Texas. Not much you can do about that.

- GA III needs to see less and less playing time. Freshman more, I'm hoping.

- Amir is a good RB.

- OL was awesome I thought.

- Tommy made a few mistakes, but we didn't lose because of him. He played pretty well I thought.

- We are the better team, but they had the best player tonight. Gardner went into Lebron in Cleveland mode, and there was nothing we could do.

I agree with all of this. But they actually had the two best players (Gallon)

 

[stlnd01]

After that horrible PI call. I just threw up my hands and said f the ACC.

That was an awful, awful call.
It may or may not have technically been interference, but it certainly wasn't blatant, and it basically ended the game. Even a field goal there and we're still right in it. Ref ought to keep the flag in his pocket in a situation like that.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Anyone remember when we almost lost to Purdue at home last year? Or Pitt? Or Stanford? Or BYU?

Last year's team was a bit of a mirage. Very solid with a will to win, but not the juggernaut of a normal undefeated team. This team is pretty much on the same level as last year's team in talent without some of the leadership.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

The PI was the wrong call, but you can't pin a game on one call. ND still had a shot at stopping them. The 2nd PI call was marginal, Funchess created the contact.

Even with those calls against us, ND still had an opportunity to stop UM on that drive. We had the opportunity to stop them all night, but only did a handful of times. Penalties or no penalties, the defense wasn't good enough.

 

[fightingirish26]

If we had teo we win

 

[magogian]

Run v. Pass -- Some thoughts

Offhand, I have the same predilection as most of this board. Run the ball!!!

As most of you, I was disappointed by how few times we ran the ball, despite getting a good YPC average. But, after thinking about it more, I'm not sure that the failure to run the ball made any difference.

Tommy passed pretty well. Our receivers and Hercules were able to get open quite frequently. And many of those completed passes went 10+ yards. I suspect that we had a better chance of getting a first down if Tommy had 2 throws back to back than 2 runs (even though runs were effective). So, I think the passing itself didn't cause problems because it was darn effective.

It was really just the red zone offense. Now, maybe there we should have run more in the red zone. But I don't think the general run/pass ratio between the 20s made or could have made much of a difference.

 

[IrishLax]

So I rewatched the game:
1. When we played aggressive in the second half, Michigan easily could've been held scoreless.
1a. Brian Kelly declining that holding call was one of the dumbest things ever. That cost us that stop. Instead of having to pick up 10 yards twice on 2nd & 19, they only had to pick up 10 yards once on 3rd & 9. Simply the wrong choice.
1b. If BJax gets that INT and/or just doesn't get call for PI that is a stop. Changed the game, but the back ref who called it had a bad angle so I don't blame him too much.

2. Our offense could've shredded them. Even putting the entire game on Tommy's shoulders, which is not a desirable game plan, we had ample opportunity to score. Tommy missed a couple throws and had two game altering picks. Oh well. On top of that, TJ being hurt or for whatever reason dropped a LOT of passes he usually catches. That one Tommy dropped inbetween 3 defenders on the 2 yardline has to be a catch 10 out of 10 times. SMH.

3. Probably the worst play of the whole game was on 4th and 4 when Michigan jumped offsides with 3 separate players and we didn't snap the ball and/or stand up. That's a gift first down and game changer. Our guys have to be smarter/coached better than that. WTF.

If we played again tomorrow on a neutral field, and Diaco doesn't show up with a dumbass gameplan, we probably win a tight one. But that's not how football is played. We got severely out-coached and out-played for a half and the rest is history. Michigan very well might go 12-0 this year against what remains of an easy schedule.

 

[kmoose]

So I rewatched the game:
1. When we played aggressive in the second half, Michigan easily could've been held scoreless.
1a. Brian Kelly declining that holding call was one of the dumbest things ever. That cost us that stop. Instead of having to pick up 10 yards twice on 2nd & 19, they only had to pick up 10 yards once on 3rd & 9. Simply the wrong choice.
1b. If BJax gets that INT and/or just doesn't get call for PI that is a stop. Changed the game, but the back ref who called it had a bad angle so I don't blame him too much.

2. Our offense could've shredded them. Even putting the entire game on Tommy's shoulders, which is not a desirable game plan, we had ample opportunity to score. Tommy missed a couple throws and had two game altering picks. Oh well. On top of that, TJ being hurt or for whatever reason dropped a LOT of passes he usually catches. That one Tommy dropped inbetween 3 defenders on the 2 yardline has to be a catch 10 out of 10 times. SMH.

3. Probably the worst play of the whole game was on 4th and 4 when Michigan jumped offsides with 3 separate players and we didn't snap the ball and/or stand up. That's a gift first down and game changer. Our guys have to be smarter/coached better than that. WTF.

If we played again tomorrow on a neutral field, and Diaco doesn't show up with a dumbass gameplan, we probably win a tight one. But that's not how football is played. We got severely out-coached and out-played for a half and the rest is history. Michigan very well might go 12-0 this year against what remains of an easy schedule.

Did you rewatch it on DVR, or online? I have been trying to remember............. did we run much play action at all? I don't remember us running it much. With the way we were running the ball, one would think that play action would have been very successful for us.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

More thoughts..

Brady Hoke is eating a cheeseburger somewhere still trying to call a TO before a 3rd down a goal TD run.

 

[Domer4ever]

Any thoughts on personnel changes at this point? I have a few;

- Grace should be starting at Teo's old spot and let Calabrese/Fox platoon the other ILB position. Grace has looked impressive and athletic at that spot. Let the werewolf eat!

- Farley needs to take a seat. I think he's an average talent and a special teamer, not someone who should start. Collinsworth is the goods and Shumate should be the other starter.

- GA3 is a specialist and judging by his hands last night, not that special. He's not a natural RB and has no hands, so what do you do with him? I like him returning kicks. Carlisle should start with Greg Bryant spelling him as the more physical compliment. It's time to stop trying to force a square peg into a round hole with GA3 as a RB.

Kelly is a big "trust" guy and has deferred to the upper class man for fear of the big mistake, and I don't have a problem necessarily with that stance heading into the Michigan game, but now is the time to make some changes and start to form the nucleus of this team moving forward. Let the talent play. I think ND is moving into a section of the schedule where it's time to make these changes and Kelly could feel comfortable doing so. Hope it happens.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I thought Diaco's plan was solid. We brought pressure and forced Gardner to make quick decisions. Behind a rebuilt OL and with a young quarterback, it seems like a pretty reasonable strategy. And he has a history for making a mistake at some point (INT in every game he's played, I believe).

Gardner was just off the charts...and Gallon made several big time catches in tight coverage. He hit hot reads, evaded an athletic DL, and just gashed us. We overreact after every game, but if Gardner continues to play like he did last night he'll be in the Heisman conversation.

 

[ryno 24]

In all reality if we had Golson we would have won. Rees cannot extend plays and does not have the arm. Also Rees thinks he can make all the throws and he cannot. Finally, we try and pass the ball 51 times a game with Rees. We would have run the ball much more often with Golson. Also for everyone who said Golson played terrible last year against Michigan last year, he had improved greatly since then, and Rees is still the same Rees as two years ago and last year. Rees is still the best backup qb in the country.

We still need to run the ball more. That is the staple of our offense and when teams drop 8 Rees cannot work with that. We have a stable of very good runningbacks and we should use them.

We have very good wrs but we cannot get the ball to them very accurately.

The offense was just as bad as the defense, we only scored two offensive touchdowns that really is not very good.

The DLine showed up Nix commanded double teams and threw around his men all night. Stephon stalemated with Schofield all night. He played well all night and did obviously have an impact. Same thing for Day he did his job all night.

Jaylon looked very good tonight, he is still learning but he made some very good plays. Councell looked very good as well. Grace needs to start immediately, he is very athletic and is getting it. There will be mistakes but he works hard.

The secondary was not good and that was surprising, as I thought that would be a strength.

This is one loss and I did expect us to be around 8-4 to 10-2 when we lost Golson.

On to Purdue and we will feel better next week.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Any thoughts on personnel changes at this point? I have a few;

- Grace should be starting at Teo's old spot and let Calabrese/Fox platoon the other ILB position. Grace has looked impressive and athletic at that spot. Let the werewolf eat!

- Farley needs to take a seat. I think he's an average talent and a special teamer, not someone who should start. Collinsworth is the goods and Shumate should be the other starter.

- GA3 is a specialist and judging by his hands last night, not that special. He's not a natural RB and has no hands, so what do you do with him? I like him returning kicks. Carlisle should start with Greg Bryant spelling him as the more physical compliment. It's time to stop trying to force a square peg into a round hole with GA3 as a RB.

Kelly is a big "trust" guy and has deferred to the upper class man for fear of the big mistake, and I don't have a problem necessarily with that stance heading into the Michigan game, but now is the time to make some changes and start to form the nucleus of this team moving forward. Let the talent play. I think ND is moving into a section of the schedule where it's time to make these changes and Kelly could feel comfortable doing so. Hope it happens.

Love your whole post. We need to get the youth in the rotation sooner for the experience. We will be even more ****ed if a seasoned starter goes down and their backup has just been watching from the sidelines.

To the bolded part:
I wouldn't mind seeing Folston in the mx too. Amir has to be the clear starter seeing half of the carries and then a mix of Folston/Bryant/Cam and occasionally GAIII. I feel bad for GAIII as I just don't know where he fits anymore. But I know its not as our feature back, or a receiving threat out of the backfield.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I thought Diaco's plan was solid. We brought pressure and forced Gardner to make quick decisions. Behind a rebuilt OL and with a young quarterback, it seems like a pretty reasonable strategy. And he has a history for making a mistake at some point (INT in every game he's played, I believe).

Gardner was just off the charts...and Gallon made several big time catches in tight coverage. He hit hot reads, evaded an athletic DL, and just gashed us. We overreact after every game, but if Gardner continues to play like he did last night he'll be in the Heisman conversation.

Woulda love to see more contain of the QB. But thats on the players on the field

 

[kmoose]

In all reality if we had Golson we would have won. Rees cannot extend plays and does not have the arm. Also Rees thinks he can make all the throws and he cannot. Finally, we try and pass the ball 51 times a game with Rees. We would have run the ball much more often with Golson. Also for everyone who said Golson played terrible last year against Michigan last year, he had improved greatly since then, and Rees is still the same Rees as two years ago and last year. Rees is still the best backup qb in the country.

We still need to run the ball more. That is the staple of our offense and when teams drop 8 Rees cannot work with that. We have a stable of very good runningbacks and we should use them.

We have very good wrs but we cannot get the ball to them very accurately.

The offense was just as bad as the defense, we only scored two offensive touchdowns that really is not very good.

The DLine showed up Nix commanded double teams and threw around his men all night. Stephon stalemated with Schofield all night. He played well all night and did obviously have an impact. Same thing for Day he did his job all night.

Jaylon looked very good tonight, he is still learning but he made some very good plays. Councell looked very good as well. Grace needs to start immediately, he is very athletic and is getting it. There will be mistakes but he works hard.

The secondary was not good and that was surprising, as I thought that would be a strength.

This is one loss and I did expect us to be around 8-4 to 10-2 when we lost Golson.

On to Purdue and we will feel better next week.

Rees threw for over 300 yards, and even without Tuitt's TD, we still scored 23 points. The offense could certainly be better, but it played well enough to win last night. The defense lost the game.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

George needs less snaps.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ryno 24]

Rees threw for over 300 yards, and even without Tuitt's TD, we still scored 23 points. The offense could certainly be better, but it played well enough to win last night. The defense lost the game.

The defense did lose the game, but they really gave 34 because of that Tommy Pick. I accept Tommy is our QB and I will support him, but 23 is not enough to beat a good team.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Anyone have breakdown of stats from last night? I know Tommy went for over 300, but total yards, rushing, rushing/pass balance?

I keep hearing about Diaco's bad game plan. I agree, although I can't quite put my finger on what was wrong with it. Too aggro? not enough contain?

I think Diaco thinks we have the athleticism to blitz and go man coverage. Against better teams, as we saw last night, there are some players that simply do not have the athleticism to do this. I'm afraid Bennett and Farley are two of them.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Woulda love to see more contain of the QB. But thats on the players on the field

Fair enough. But he's really tough to contain. If he was our QB people would be talking him up and saying that no team can stop him. Same with Gallon. When Mike Floyd made huge catches, we said, "man, he's awesome." When Gallon did last night, lots of people said, "What's wrong with our secondary?"

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The defense did lose the game, but they really gave 34 because of that Tommy Pick. I accept Tommy is our QB and I will support him, but 23 is not enough to beat a good team.

It was often enough last year. And more than Golson put up several times.

 

[ryno 24]

Kelly's direct quote was "sometimes you need an offense to win a game for you and pick up a defense" that did not happen.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Fair enough. But he's really tough to contain. If he was our QB people would be talking him up and saying that no team can stop him. Same with Gallon. When Mike Floyd made huge catches, we said, "man, he's awesome." When Gallon did last night, lots of people said, "What's wrong with our secondary?"

Not sure that even if we did get better contain at times that they still wouldn't have won. Gardner seems the real deal. But the Gallon part is what burns my ***. He played phenomenal last night. But I don't think he's that good. Idk why, I just don't.

 

[stlnd01]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I thought Diaco's plan was solid. We brought pressure and forced Gardner to make quick decisions. Behind a rebuilt OL and with a young quarterback, it seems like a pretty reasonable strategy. And he has a history for making a mistake at some point (INT in every game he's played, I believe).

Gardner was just off the charts...and Gallon made several big time catches in tight coverage. He hit hot reads, evaded an athletic DL, and just gashed us. We overreact after every game, but if Gardner continues to play like he did last night he'll be in the Heisman conversation.

I agree. We brought a lot of heat early. We had tight coverage. They couldn't run at all. Gardner just made really good throws in tight windows and his receivers caught the ball. I'm no DC, but schematically I don't know what I'd do different. Problem is we didn't tackle well. It wasn't Diaco who whiffed on Gallon on that long touchdown early. It was half our defense.
That said, we don't seem to be playing the degree of defensive intensity we had last year. Felt that way both games. I don't know if that's missing Te'o or what. But it's troubling. And some of it does fall on the coaching.

 

[kmoose]

Anyone have breakdown of stats from last night? I know Tommy went for over 300, but total yards, rushing, rushing/pass balance?

I keep hearing about Diaco's bad game plan. I agree, although I can't quite put my finger on what was wrong with it. Too aggro? not enough contain?

I think Diaco thinks we have the athleticism to blitz and go man coverage. Against better teams, as we saw last night, there are some players that simply do not have the athleticism to do this. I'm afraid Bennett and Farley are two of them.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...o_pdf/2013-14/box_score/stats_20130908aaa.pdf

 

[NDWorld247]

So I rewatched the game:

1a. Brian Kelly declining that holding call was one of the dumbest things ever. That cost us that stop. Instead of having to pick up 10 yards twice on 2nd & 19, they only had to pick up 10 yards once on 3rd & 9. Simply the wrong choice.

3. Probably the worst play of the whole game was on 4th and 4 when Michigan jumped offsides with 3 separate players and we didn't snap the ball and/or stand up. That's a gift first down and game changer. Our guys have to be smarter/coached better than that. WTF..

I'll watch the game again at some point, but I didn't have any problem with declining that penalty. It's easy to second guess knowing the outcome, but you take 3rd and long every time. If you can't trust your defense to get off the field on 3rd and long then you have big problems. Also, wasn't there a sequence later in the game where we had them 2nd and 25 and they converted the first down? If BK had accepted the penalty, put them in 2nd and 19 and they convert, we're calling him a dumbas$ for accepting. Declining there is the right call. Our defense just didn't execute.

Agree 100% on the 4th and 4. I was screaming at the TV. I played center in HS and college so that play hit home for me. I prided myself on catching the defense offsides, especially in situations with less than 5 yards to go. It wouldn't surprise me if NMart wasn't even aware of the down and distance. He has to be better than that as the points lost on that drive, whether 3 or 7, would have changed the game.

 

[Domer4ever]

I'll watch the game again at some point, but I didn't have any problem with declining that penalty. It's easy to second guess knowing the outcome, but you take 3rd and long every time. If you can't trust your defense to get off the field on 3rd and long then you have big problems. Also, wasn't there a sequence later in the game where we had them 2nd and 25 and they converted the first down? If BK had accepted the penalty, put them in 2nd and 19 and they convert, we're calling him a dumbas$ for accepting. Declining there is the right call. Our defense just didn't execute.

Agree 100% on the 4th and 4. I was screaming at the TV. I played center in HS and college so that play hit home for me. I prided myself on catching the defense offsides, especially in situations with less than 5 yards to go. It wouldn't surprise me if NMart wasn't even aware of the down and distance. He has to be better than that as the points lost on that drive, whether 3 or 7, would have changed the game.

Declining the penalty made it a 3rd and 8 situation, which was manageable for that offense last night. I think you have to take that penalty because it pushes them deep into their own territory and maybe that changes their play calling and they go more conservative. With the way they moved the ball last night, you have to take any opportunity you can to push them back.