Post Game Observations.......

[Patulski]

redacted

 

[tko]

redacted

This shocks me. I see Kona as a beast. I hope he just wasn't on his game b/c we need him to be a force.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Welcome back football season!

I don't know how much can be taken from this game to give a reliable assessment of our 2013 squad. But, with that being said, here are some things I noticed.

1. Rees looked good. Cool, calm, and collected. But he wasn't really pressured into making any quick decisions. Well know more about that reaction in the future. He did seem to have a strong command of the offense and his arm strength looked surprisingly good.

2. I think we were feeling out our rotation at RB. We're going to be very fresh and productive this season, especially late in games. Its a comforting thought with Tommys limitations.

3. WR's are straight ballers. We aren't going to look like the 2011 offense or even 2012. Well be much more efficient and dangerous from many points of attack.

4. Defense. I thought they had stretches where they played lazy and uninspired. For awhile, they looked like they just weren't taking the game serious. Maybe it was the heat? Maybe they were looking ahead to next week? It was comforting that it didn't look like a conditioning issue, just more of our going just going through the motions without any fire.

4. The edges and containment scare me. As many have said, our ILB's are a liability at this point. We'll get dink and dunked on with underneath passes and screens all day. Something needs to be done about that.

5. As a whole our defense looked like they just showed up. They looked slow reacting. I cant imagine well see that again next week, if you don't get fired up for UM under the lights then you should change your direction and start reading rainy day poetry at a coffee shop with the rest of the people who go through life miserable.

 

[MJ12666]

First it was only the first game and while I agree that Fox and Carlo's play was a bit underwhelming, the front 3/4 did not help. Excluding the play of individual positions, the defensive scheme was no different than last year. Basically don't worry about giving up yards, protect against the big play, and limit touchdowns. With that said, I hope they pick up their play next week.

Second, Rees quite frankly looked like Tommy Rees. I saw no appreciable difference in his arm strength and as a result, (I hope I am wrong) will not be converting a lot of third down passes on third and 5 or more. I am not taking anything away from him throwing those TD passes to Daniels, but let's face it, the DB was way over-matched and did not have any help. Somehow I don't think it will be quite as easy against Michigan. With that said, if Rees does not turn the ball over, there is no reason why we can't win.

Lastly, I already hate the "pistol" formation. If Rees is not going to run, so I don't see this formation being particularly advantageous, and is clearly detrimental when attempting to run in short yardage situations.

 

[irishog77]

First it was only the first game and while I agree that Fox and Carlo's play was a bit underwhelming, the front 3/4 did not help. Excluding the play of individual positions, the defensive scheme was no different than last year. Basically don't worry about giving up yards, protect against the big play, and limit touchdowns. With that said, I hope they pick up their play next week.

Second, Rees quite frankly looked like Tommy Rees. I saw no appreciable difference in his arm strength and as a result, (I hope I am wrong) will not be converting a lot of third down passes on third and 5 or more. I am not taking anything away from him throwing those TD passes to Daniels, but let's face it, the DB was way over-matched and did not have any help. Somehow I don't think it will be quite as easy against Michigan. With that said, if Rees does not turn the ball over, there is no reason why we can't win.

Lastly, I already hate the "pistol" formation. If Rees is not going to run, so I don't see this formation being particularly advantageous, and is clearly detrimental when attempting to run in short yardage situations.

AJ McCarron isn't a threat to run, but Alabama has had a lot of success running the Pistol. One of the advantages of the formation is that it allows the RB to to sort of already be running downhill/full speed when he takes the hand off, as opposed to being at a virtual standstill receiving the handoff from the shotgun. And with the QB dropped back a little, even if he's not a running QB, it still allows him to get a better view of the field/defense than being under center...as well as having a couple yard buffer from the defense. The Pistol (like the Shotgun) can be advantageous to non-running QB's who may lack good foot work and/or the ability to step up or move around in a pocket.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

First it was only the first game and while I agree that Fox and Carlo's play was a bit underwhelming, the front 3/4 did not help. Excluding the play of individual positions, the defensive scheme was no different than last year. Basically don't worry about giving up yards, protect against the big play, and limit touchdowns. With that said, I hope they pick up their play next week.

Second, Rees quite frankly looked like Tommy Rees. I saw no appreciable difference in his arm strength and as a result, (I hope I am wrong) will not be converting a lot of third down passes on third and 5 or more. I am not taking anything away from him throwing those TD passes to Daniels, but let's face it, the DB was way over-matched and did not have any help. Somehow I don't think it will be quite as easy against Michigan. With that said, if Rees does not turn the ball over, there is no reason why we can't win.

Lastly, I already hate the "pistol" formation. If Rees is not going to run, so I don't see this formation being particularly advantageous, and is clearly detrimental when attempting to run in short yardage situations.

The Pistol is perfect for Rees. It doesnt tip the running play so the defense can make their adjustments prior to the snap. The RBs get downhill quicker, and allows Rees more time to take his drops/survey than if he was under center. Rees' lack of mobility doesnt allow for the "read option" sets like last year. Last year ND didnt run a ton of read option, but the defense had to respect it and couldnt crash. This year if they lined up in the shotgun, they know where the run is going. Yesterday when they ran the sprint counter that worked like a charm last year, it got shutdown bc teams dont have to worry too much about keeping contain on Rees. Pistol allows ND to get the advantage in the run game by not tipping where its going and thats huge. Short yardage they did excellent in yesterday, so I guess Im not really seeing your point on it being detrimental in that type of situation. Kelly switching to the pistol shows his ability to cater to his team's strengths like all good head coaches. With having 3 guys playing new positions on the line.

Temple averaged 4.9 yards a pass...Ill take that anyday of the week.

You saw the "question marks" answered yesterday. Amir is going to add value to the offense. Chris Brown is ready to be added to the list of WRs that you can go to on a consistent basis. TJ Jones raised his game. Tuitt is in great shape. Grace is aggressive, fast, and made plays. Rees has his confidence back. Davaris has taken the next step in his game. Ishaq is going to be a difference maker. Its the first game, and against a team not on ND's level, you saw the things that you needed to see that shows that this team is going to be more than fine.

Yes, SpTeams need work, but if you break it down to terms of the game. They won the special teams battle yesterday. It wasnt pretty and BK/Booker need to get Brindza comfortable, but he should be doing Kickoff and Field Goals. Theres a reason why Tausch lost his job to a Ruffer and Brindza. He just isnt on for the bright lights, and thats nothing against him, but he hasnt proven in 5 years he can consistently rise mentally to the occasion. Brindza proved last year he can rise up and make big kicks. Yesterday throwing him out there when he wasnt prepared to kick a FG, was not an ideal situation for him. I am all for seeing Antognoli/Wulfek get their shot at punting but not bc Brindza cant do it, its just a lot to ask and pressure for a player to get mentally right for those situations. Punting is different than kicking FGs, and we have kids that can punt. Brindza strength is his leg so let him do what he does best and get FGs/KOs. Other than that, ND blocked a FG, almost blocked a 2nd, recovered a fumbled punt, and KO coverage was good.

 

[T Town Tommy]

T Town's take:

Rees played well despite missing a few throws. He made the right reads and took advantage of Temple's man coverage. He does need to learn when to get a few positive yards if he has to run. Not5-6 yards... just 2-3 here or there to stay in front of the chains.

Hard to tell on the rbs as Temple didn't appear to be able to stay physical enough with the Irish OL. Carlisle showed he can scoot in open space. Cam ran hard when he had his chances. GA III won't make the full season if he doesn't learn to drop them shoulders. His second run I thought he was done for the year. The freshmen need to find where they contribute and utilize their chances when asked.

The OL looked solid. The Wrs looked good on the outside. The TE's were not called on too much (surprised).

The DL either mailed it in or looked slow and not effective. Nix seemed lost or confused at times. Tuitt seemed to take some plays off. Day seemed consistent but not spectacular. The others had good moments and not so good moments.

The ILB were not very good. Fox and CC are going to be targeted in the passing game as it appears they are not near fast enough to cover.

The secondary looked good minus a few plays where the safeties appeared out of position. Maybe a little rust there.

Special teams have to improve. I don't like seeing Jones returning punts however. It is not worth losing him to injury.

The offensive play calling was a little too inconsistent. Maybe just trying to be vanilla ahead of the big game.

The defensive schemes seemed to be rush three or rush eight. BD needs to find a little more common ground.

All in all, the game was what it was... the first one of the year. Plenty to work on as expected but still a solid first game effort. If the most improvement is shown from game one to game two then the Irish should be ready for Michigan.

 

[NDWorld247]

I am all for seeing Antognoli/Wulfek get their shot at punting but not bc Brindza cant do it, its just a lot to ask and pressure for a player to get mentally right for those situations. Punting is different than kicking FGs, and we have kids that can punt.

I was surprised Wulfeck didn't handle the "pooch" punt situations yesterday. Kelly said all three guys (Tausch, Brindza and Wulfeck) would get a chance to play and I thought the short, directional punts were Wulfeck's specialty, so why didn't he get a shot, especially after Brindza's first attempt sailed through the endzone?

 

[palinurus]

The Pistol is perfect for Rees. It doesnt tip the running play so the defense can make their adjustments prior to the snap. The RBs get downhill quicker, and allows Rees more time to take his drops/survey than if he was under center. Rees' lack of mobility doesnt allow for the "read option" sets like last year. Last year ND didnt run a ton of read option, but the defense had to respect it and couldnt crash. This year if they lined up in the shotgun, they know where the run is going. Yesterday when they ran the sprint counter that worked like a charm last year, it got shutdown bc teams dont have to worry too much about keeping contain on Rees. Pistol allows ND to get the advantage in the run game by not tipping where its going and thats huge. Short yardage they did excellent in yesterday, so I guess Im not really seeing your point on it being detrimental in that type of situation. Kelly switching to the pistol shows his ability to cater to his team's strengths like all good head coaches. With having 3 guys playing new positions on the line.

Temple averaged 4.9 yards a pass...Ill take that anyday of the week.

You saw the "question marks" answered yesterday. Amir is going to add value to the offense. Chris Brown is ready to be added to the list of WRs that you can go to on a consistent basis. TJ Jones raised his game. Tuitt is in great shape. Grace is aggressive, fast, and made plays. Rees has his confidence back. Davaris has taken the next step in his game. Ishaq is going to be a difference maker. Its the first game, and against a team not on ND's level, you saw the things that you needed to see that shows that this team is going to be more than fine.

Yes, SpTeams need work, but if you break it down to terms of the game. They won the special teams battle yesterday. It wasnt pretty and BK/Booker need to get Brindza comfortable, but he should be doing Kickoff and Field Goals. Theres a reason why Tausch lost his job to a Ruffer and Brindza. He just isnt on for the bright lights, and thats nothing against him, but he hasnt proven in 5 years he can consistently rise mentally to the occasion. Brindza proved last year he can rise up and make big kicks. Yesterday throwing him out there when he wasnt prepared to kick a FG, was not an ideal situation for him. I am all for seeing Antognoli/Wulfek get their shot at punting but not bc Brindza cant do it, its just a lot to ask and pressure for a player to get mentally right for those situations. Punting is different than kicking FGs, and we have kids that can punt. Brindza strength is his leg so let him do what he does best and get FGs/KOs. Other than that, ND blocked a FG, almost blocked a 2nd, recovered a fumbled punt, and KO coverage was good.

Re bold, esp. when (as I learned from Kelly's press conference yesterday) those dinks and dunks were permitted by design once ND had 20 point lead.

 

[ulukinatme]

How was the stadium noise?

Not that great, from where I was sitting. I've heard the stadium quieter, but then again it was Temple. I think the decision to pipe music over the loudspeakers a few years ago has helped increase the crowd noise, especially in a game where we're in control like this one and want to keep the noise up while on defense. I didn't expect it to be especially loud given the opponent.

 

[MJ12666]

AJ McCarron isn't a threat to run, but Alabama has had a lot of success running the Pistol. One of the advantages of the formation is that it allows the RB to to sort of already be running downhill/full speed when he takes the hand off, as opposed to being at a virtual standstill receiving the handoff from the shotgun. And with the QB dropped back a little, even if he's not a running QB, it still allows him to get a better view of the field/defense than being under center...as well as having a couple yard buffer from the defense. The Pistol (like the Shotgun) can be advantageous to non-running QB's who may lack good foot work and/or the ability to step up or move around in a pocket.

I will assume your analysis is correct and that the pistol formation is best for Rees (especially since the coaching staff seems to agreed). However I am not convinced that on short yardage (three yards or less) that it is better then having the QB under center. There is no way that the running back will hit the whole quicker from the pistol and therefore will be more prone to getting hit behind the line of scrimmage as happened yesterday. Of course I could be making an erroneous conclusion based on a small sample, so we shall see (and hopefully I am wrong). Anyway, like most fans I am not immune to occasionally making rash judgements. If ND moves the ball up and down the field Saturday against Michigan, I will be on saying that Kelly is a genius for working this into his offensive strategy.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Agreed. Up 3 scores, 8 minutes left, and the second string is in? Are you kidding me? That's begging for a historic comeback.

We let up WAY before 8 mins left. The play calling got much more conservative after a few TDs.

 

[NDWorld247]

I will assume your analysis is correct and that the pistol formation is best for Rees (especially since the coaching staff seems to agreed). However I am not convinced that on short yardage (three yards or less) that it is better then having the QB under center. There is no way that the running back will hit the whole quicker from the pistol and therefore will be more prone to getting hit behind the line of scrimmage as happened yesterday. Of course I could be making an erroneous conclusion based on a small sample, so we shall see (and hopefully I am wrong). Anyway, like most fans I am not immune to occasionally making rash judgements. If ND moves the ball up and down the field Saturday against Michigan, I will be on saying that Kelly is a genius for working this into his offensive strategy.

In the Pistol formation, the RB lines up either 8 or 7 yards from the ball. On the first play from scrimmage, Amir was 8 yards. On Atkinson's goal line TD run, he was 7 yards. For comparison's sake, in a single back formation with the QB under center, the RB is usually 7 yards from the ball. I looked at some highlights from last year, and even in short yardage situations (e.g. Cierre's fumble on the goal line in OT vs. Pitt), the RB is 7 yards. Maybe the RB cheats up a yard (to 6 yards) in some situations (I didn't see this happen in the clips I watched), but that can also be accomplished from the Pistol.

I don't really think there's a difference in short yardage situations between pistol and single back with QB under center.

 

[NDhoosier]

1) The TE's were not called on too much (surprised).

2) The defensive schemes seemed to be rush three or rush eight. BD needs to find a little more common ground.

1) - I agree. Yes, Niklas had one big play, but TEs were only targeted twice the entire game and both were to Niklas. Koyack saw the field, but was asked to block a lot. The good thing is that both Niklas and Koyack were blocking fairly well. One has to think that the lack of TE usage was by design and keeping things close to the vest. With getting such a big lead early on, Kelly saw no reason to show everything in his play book. I said on this on another thread, but I was happy with what I saw from the TEs, but I saw very little from them.

2) - I also agree, there were some 4 down linemen every now and then, but most of it was either a 3 man front and rush or rush the house. Not a lot of middle ground. Would like to see that changed up some. Example: Shembo rushes one play, Smith rushes another play, 3 man rush next, Shembo and Smith rush another, Grace rushes the next, 3 man rush next, Fox and Shembo rush next.

 

[Irish Insanity]

T Town's take:

Rees played well despite missing a few throws. He made the right reads and took advantage of Temple's man coverage. He does need to learn when to get a few positive yards if he has to run. Not5-6 yards... just 2-3 here or there to stay in front of the chains.

Hard to tell on the rbs as Temple didn't appear to be able to stay physical enough with the Irish OL. Carlisle showed he can scoot in open space. Cam ran hard when he had his chances. GA III won't make the full season if he doesn't learn to drop them shoulders. His second run I thought he was done for the year. The freshmen need to find where they contribute and utilize their chances when asked.

The OL looked solid. The Wrs looked good on the outside. The TE's were not called on too much (surprised).

The DL either mailed it in or looked slow and not effective. Nix seemed lost or confused at times. Tuitt seemed to take some plays off. Day seemed consistent but not spectacular. The others had good moments and not so good moments.

The ILB were not very good. Fox and CC are going to be targeted in the passing game as it appears they are not near fast enough to cover.

The secondary looked good minus a few plays where the safeties appeared out of position. Maybe a little rust there.

Special teams have to improve. I don't like seeing Jones returning punts however. It is not worth losing him to injury.

The offensive play calling was a little too inconsistent. Maybe just trying to be vanilla ahead of the big game.

The defensive schemes seemed to be rush three or rush eight. BD needs to find a little more common ground.

All in all, the game was what it was... the first one of the year. Plenty to work on as expected but still a solid first game effort. If the most improvement is shown from game one to game two then the Irish should be ready for Michigan.

Appreciate the non-koolaid view. I agree with most, but Nix looked more frustrated than confused to me, and I'm sure the triple teams didn't help that.

 

[NDWorld247]

Something I've been thinking about last night and today...

I don't really know how the RB situation will play out throughout this season. I have concerns about GA3. I trust Cam in most situations, but he's not near the level we had last year with Theo and to some degree Cierre. Amir is our most dynamic RB, but as many of you have pointed out, I really doubt if he can be a consistent between the tackles RB for us, nor do I think he'll be asked to do that. The two freshmen are the best and most versatile backs on the roster, but are they ready, or will they be asked to play a significant role this season? I have my doubts. I'm optimistic about the RB situation, I just don't have a clear idea of how it will play out, which I think is the general consensus of most posters here.

With that said, and this is what I've been thinking about, if you think there's a cluster **** at RB this year, what will next year look like with all FIVE of these guys returning? Will two or three emerge or will we find situations for all five to play meaningful minutes? I know we're only one game into the 2013 season, but I couldn't help but wonder about this situation next year.

 

[loomis41973]

Amir is one bad motha....hope he stays healthy. 2 freshmen looked ok.

Next year may see a switch of positions or teams for GA3.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

People are acting like Atkinson didn't show up at all. He had some good ones and some that were not as good. He didn't have the flashy run of Carlisle and isn't fan favorite McDaniel, so people are looking for ways to replace him with those two. 45 yards on 9 touches is good. His athleticism is why he will keep on playing. McDaniel is a great player, but he's not a breakaway threat like Atkinson. I'd rather see McDaniel be a goal line back or a short yardage guy and have Atkinson and Carlisle get more of the carries.

 

[Patulski]

I'm glad you all are unconcerned with how TEMPLE made our defense look foolish on play action and QB scrambles. After all, we don't want to show Flintstone anything and the Temple QB is really good right? Better than Devin Gardner?

I think what is more disconcerting is that Temple's running backs averaged 4.3 yards per carry. For the year last year overall, our opponents averaged 3.47 yards per carry. Heck, Stanford's Stepfan Taylor only averaged 3.6 yards and we bottled up MSU's great RB as well.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

My thoughts on Rees were that he was excellent on 1st and 2nd but not up to par on 3rd. He missed a lot of passes he should be making on 3rd downs. This is why I want to emphasize the running game more than we did. 3rd and longs will be our downfall this year. Rees was 3/7 on 3rd for 2 first downs, and 3 of those should have been easy catches. One was because of Daniels' groin, but the other 2 were just bad misses. If we can get into 3rd and 4 or 3rd and 5, it will be a perfect place for our offense.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I thought the D-line played pretty well too. Nix had penalties, but besides that he was good. Tuitt got good penetration, and Day was good on the left side of the line. It's the linebackers that are the problems. We have 2 inside linebackers who have been average at best for their whole career, a pass rusher, and a true freshman out there. It's not an ideal situation. The lack of a Te'o or even Brian Smith will kill us.

 

[NDWorld247]

I think what is more disconcerting is that Temple's running backs averaged 4.3 yards per carry. For the year last year overall, our opponents averaged 3.47 yards per carry. Heck, Stanford's Stepfan Taylor only averaged 3.6 yards and we bottled up MSU's great RB as well.

Their RBs only averaged 3.43 YPC (16 attempts for 55 yards). Their QBs (13 for 79 yards or 12 for 83 if you subtract Tuitt's sack) is what hurt us.

 

[Patulski]

My thoughts on Rees were that he was excellent on 1st and 2nd but not up to par on 3rd. He missed a lot of passes he should be making on 3rd downs. This is why I want to emphasize the running game more than we did. 3rd and longs will be our downfall this year. Rees was 3/7 on 3rd for 2 first downs, and 3 of those should have been easy catches. One was because of Daniels' groin, but the other 2 were just bad misses. If we can get into 3rd and 4 or 3rd and 5, it will be a perfect place for our offense.

I predict that we're going to see lots of short run and catch passes to Atkinson and Carlisle, to go along with the usual WR screens. I think we're going to run less this year than last.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Their RBs only averaged 3.43 YPC (16 attempts for 55 yards). Their QBs (13 for 79 yards or 12 for 83 if you subtract Tuitt's sack) is what hurt us.

Exactly. Those QB runs arent going to happen next week.

ND played man on the QB runs...hence why he kept running and no ND defender was in the picture. ND's staff isnt dumb when it comes to Michigan. They will be in zone alllllllll night.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Exactly. Those QB runs arent going to happen next week.

ND played man on the QB runs...hence why he kept running and no ND defender was in the picture. ND's staff isnt dumb when it comes to Michigan. They will be in zone alllllllll night.

I heard Gary Gray is being honored at halftime with a commemorative football on a string tied to his wrist so he can locate it at all times

 

[irishfan]

I think with Atkinson, he's just a track guy plain and simple. He doesn't run like a running back should and he really can be effective in certain situations getting 5-10 carries a game.

 

[Patulski]

Their RBs only averaged 3.43 YPC (16 attempts for 55 yards). Their QBs (13 for 79 yards or 12 for 83 if you subtract Tuitt's sack) is what hurt us.

Good catch about the QB runs, I should have included them.

Here's the Total Defense from last year that includes all runs- regardless of position- sacks and tackles for loss. I'm not sure if these losses go under the category of "loss" in the Rushing category. I don't know how you can aggregate Team Defense without including sack lost yardage. So, I would assume that they're in the rushing yardage "loss" column", but I could be wrong. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me. I'm really curious.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I predict that we're going to see lots of short run and catch passes to Atkinson and Carlisle, to go along with the usual WR screens. I think we're going to run less this year than last.

I like the short passes, but I do not want to put that much on Tommy. At this point, we know what he is. He is a game manager who has the ability now to not lose games. We should not rely on him to win. We have the most depth at running back we've had in a couple of decades. That is a big advantage we can play up. We could run it all game without having any fatigue. We have future pros on the offensive line who are great in run blocking.

 

[Pachuco]

I like the short passes, but I do not want to put that much on Tommy. At this point, we know what he is. He is a game manager who has the ability now to not lose games. We should not rely on him to win. We have the most depth at running back we've had in a couple of decades. That is a big advantage we can play up. We could run it all game without having any fatigue. We have future pros on the offensive line who are great in run blocking.

I'm not an expert, but we are going to have to throw the ball to win the big games. He'll have to be more than just a manager, and Michigan should prove that early. Here's the thing though: I think he has the receiving corps (WRs/TEs) / and slot backs to succeed when necessary.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I'm not an expert, but we are going to have to throw the ball to win the big games. He'll have to be more than just a manager, and Michigan should prove that early. Here's the thing though: I think he has the receiving corps (WRs/TEs) / and slot backs to succeed when necessary.

We beat Michigan last year with Rees managing the game. We beat Oklahoma with Golson throwing 25 passes. Hell, a lot of national champions had game managers at QB. Greg McElroy threw 11 passes in the national championship game. Game managers can win if you have a great line, good skill position players, and a strong defense. We will have all 3 of those.