Post Game Observations (Syracuse '14)...

Grahambo

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It's the right side that's the problem. I don't think Martin is that bad and I'm a huge Stanley fan. Elmer seems to be unable to deal with the mental side which to me is dealing with blitz pickups, reads, etc while being nasty. Lombard may not be truly recovered from his back injury but mistakes seem to be more Elmer then Lombard. With that said, I wouldn't take him out. He needs to figure it out. Best learning tool: game reps.
 

Whiskeyjack

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All those swing passes and screens that we ran last night were just extensions of the running game.

Yup. High %, low risk plays that are almost guaranteed to pick up good yardage when opponents stack the box against us. "Taking what the defense gives you" is essential to the Spread. Lining up 3-4 wide ensures that the defense can't protect all areas of the field; why use the Spread if you're just going to run plays into your opponent's strength anyway?

The relative weakness of our running game is partly attributable to personnel, but it's also attributable to scheme. Oregon "imposes its will" on the ground via pace and a running QB, Auburn does it through gap-blocking principles. Thus far, Kelly hasn't been willing to expose Golson to additional hits or to make the schematic sacrifices necessary to regularly use a lead blocker. So we look more like aTm or Clemson, utilizing our ground attack as a constraint for when opponents sell out against our passing attack. I distinctly recall a few plays where Golson saw favorable numbers in the box, audibled to an Inside Zone, and we ran up the gut for 5-7. Then Syracuse would go right back to stacking the box, and we'd go back to trips wide for our screen game.

Since we haven't really been tested yet this season, I'm optimistic that Kelly and BvG still have some nasty surprises in store for future opponents (we'll likely know for sure against Stanford). For instance, the easiest way to "fix" our running attack would be to adopt Oregon's model and push high tempo with lots of Read Option from Golson. We saw lots of that during Fall Camp, but Kelly hasn't used it much. If he really needs to get something going on the ground, I expect he'll risk 5-10 more hits on Golson in such games and start calling those plays.

Point being, 2014's offense is much more explosive and harder to scheme against 2012's iteration. Yes, it was fun to run power on overmatched opponents that year, but I think we've gained more than we've lost.
 
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Irish#1

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On some points, sure. Timing and things like that can get skewed. But ball security (a major part of last night's sloppiness) shouldn't be affected by a one week layoff.

I would disagree. You can emphasize ball security in practice, but getting hit in a game is different. Some may disagree with me, but Golson wasn't careful with the ball in 2012 either. Always carried the ball away from his body and still does.
 

Irish Insanity

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I would disagree. You can emphasize ball security in practice, but getting hit in a game is different. Some may disagree with me, but Golson wasn't careful with the ball in 2012 either. Always carried the ball away from his body and still does.

Bryant likes to one arm it when contact is coming, and Robinson likes to 'Floyd' the ball and hold it away from his body at times with one hand. As the defenses we face get tougher, our ball security will become more important.
 

kmoose

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I would disagree. You can emphasize ball security in practice, but getting hit in a game is different. Some may disagree with me, but Golson wasn't careful with the ball in 2012 either. Always carried the ball away from his body and still does.

My point wasn't that practice is the same as a game, in terms of ball security, though. The point is that ball security is an all season long thing....... one week off should not diminish your ball security skills. Just like one night off in baseball doesn't mean you suddenly forget how to hit a curveball.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Since we haven't really been tested yet this season, I'm optimistic that Kelly and BvG still have some nasty surprises in store for future opponents (we'll likely know for sure against Stanford).

Brian Kelly said this in the press conference when asked about the new formations used against Syracuse:

"We think we can get into some more formations, uh, over the next coming weeks. I think we can get into some three-TE situations, and they don't need to be compressed formations as well. So we got split backs in tonight with both backs. I think we will begin--we're starting to feel a lot more comfortable being able to use more formation groupings, and I think you'll see more of that as the weeks unfold."

I think you're right on the money in saying the Irish haven't been tested and that it's likely read option makes its way into the game plan going forward.
 

Grahambo

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My point wasn't that practice is the same as a game, in terms of ball security, though. The point is that ball security is an all season long thing....... one week off should not diminish your ball security skills. Just like one night off in baseball doesn't mean you suddenly forget how to hit a curveball.

Was really hoping as I was reading this that you were gonna say that it doesn't mean you totally forget how to throw a baseball. I would've countered with a picture of Rick Ankiel.
 

georgia irish

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I want us to move Procise back to defensive secondary, with Amir and Tori playing slot he drops alot of passes and his speed would help our secondary when we play teams like fsu. I also wish we would put Malik in the backfield with EG ,can u imagine a lateral to Malik rolling to to the left on pass play,he can tuck and run if the pass isn't there. Our defense finally has more speed .
 

ickythump1225

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Yup. High %, low risk plays that are almost guaranteed to pick up good yardage when opponents stack the box against us. "Taking what the defense gives you" is essential to the Spread. Lining up 3-4 wide ensures that the defense can't protect all areas of the field; why use the Spread if you're just going to run plays into your opponent's strength anyway?

The relative weakness of our running game is partly attributable to personnel, but it's also attributable to scheme. Oregon "imposes its will" on the ground via pace and a running QB, Auburn does it through gap-blocking principles. Thus far, Kelly hasn't been willing to expose Golson to additional hits or to make the schematic sacrifices necessary to regularly use a lead blocker. So we look more like aTm or Clemson, utilizing our ground attack as a constraint for when opponents sell out against our passing attack. I distinctly recall a few plays where Golson saw favorable numbers in the box, audibled to an Inside Zone, and we ran up the gut for 5-7. Then Syracuse would go right back to stacking the box, and we'd go back to trips wide for our screen game.

Since we haven't really been tested yet this season, I'm optimistic that Kelly and BvG still have some nasty surprises in store for future opponents (we'll likely know for sure against Stanford). For instance, the easiest way to "fix" our running attack would be to adopt Oregon's model and push high tempo with lots of Read Option from Golson. We saw lots of that during Fall Camp, but Kelly hasn't used it much. If he really needs to get something going on the ground, I expect he'll risk 5-10 more hits on Golson in such games and start calling those plays.

Point being, 2014's offense is much more explosive and harder to scheme against 2012's iteration. Yes, it was fun to run power on overmatched opponents that year, but I think we've gained more than we've lost.
Exactly. Oregon's run game is by designed. I encourage everyone to read up on the zone read option that Oregon runs, fishduck.com is a good resource. Oregon doesn't rack up rushing yards the same way Alabama does, they don't have overpowering offensive linemen. They run for so many yards because they spread the defense out, and give the QB a rush/handoff option, sometimes a rush/pass/handoff option. But part of that is exposing your QB to getting hit by having him rush.

If you want a good pro football example of how Notre Dame's offense is structured this year watch New Orleans. They almost rarely just line it up and pound it, but they utilize the short passing game as an extension of the run game to keep teams honest.

And honestly if pounding it is not our strength and the opposing team has the box stacked why would we just pound it up the middle for 2 yards when attack the perimeter of swing it out to Bryant or Folston in space? That's not to say running it up the gut isn't possible, it is but you have to "take what the other team gives you." If they're spread out and you see weakness up up the middle then that's where we should attack. "Balance" means so much more than just strapping it on and pounding like Alabama. Almost no team can do that, you actually need a lot more talent to play like Alabama does. Teams like A&M, Auburn, Oregon, etc. aren't overflowing with top shelf talent, but their gameplans allow their athletes to get into space and exploit weaknesses in defenses.
 

IrishLax

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IM77 - I agree on Elmer. Too many times I find him doing nothing, just hit someone dude!

Pachuco - I am sure it isn't something that has been done a lot. But, as Lax said, when does the staff say, "screw it, were fixing this thing, no matter what the circumstances."

Yeah... benching a captain is a weird concept. Doubly weird because this year of our 4 captains only one is one of our most talented players... Collinsworth and McDaniel have less physical ability than counterparts at their position, and Martin I'd say has not played at a "starter" level this year.
 

kmoose

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And honestly if pounding it is not our strength and the opposing team has the box stacked why would we just pound it up the middle for 2 yards when attack the perimeter of swing it out to Bryant or Folston in space? That's not to say running it up the gut isn't possible, it is but you have to "take what the other team gives you." If they're spread out and you see weakness up up the middle then that's where we should attack. "Balance" means so much more than just strapping it on and pounding like Alabama. Almost no team can do that, you actually need a lot more talent to play like Alabama does. Teams like A&M, Auburn, Oregon, etc. aren't overflowing with top shelf talent, but their gameplans allow their athletes to get into space and exploit weaknesses in defenses.

You don't have to "just pound it up the middle for 2 yards". One of the ways that you neutralize numbers in the box is with misdirection; get the defense thinking that you are going outside, and get them flowing that way, then cut back into the middle. No one is advocating 3 yards and a cloud of dust. But our running game has been pretty pedestrian, so far. And pedestrian against the teams that we have been playing is likely to translate into non-existent against the better teams on our schedule.
 

NDdomer2

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He about pulled in an under thrown, tipped pass, with just his left hand.

I think it's a matter of reps with CJ and catching the ball.

However, he is our best perimeter blocker so I don't see him going anywhere.
 

Booslum31

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If procise get it together he would be lethal. Hand, eye coordination with alil bit glue...

If a frog had wings...he wouldn't bump his ass when it jumped. Anyway, not quite sure what you are saying about the hand/eye/glue thing. I think you mean he needs to catch the ball better?
 

georgia irish

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but the elite teams have speed to spare in the secondary aka Alabama and remember even tho riggs is our best cb he couldn't start at fla
 
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Cackalacky

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but the elite teams have speed to spare in the secondary aka Alabama and remember even tho riggs is our best cb he couldn't start at fla

Riggs started 25+ games for Florida and was moved to Safety out of necessity and because he is versatile. His decision to come to ND was academic and to take advantage of one more year to hopefully prepare for getting an opportunity in the NFL since he already graduated from Florida.
 

georgia irish

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I want to see malik on the field , when we play Stanford .fsu. and Alabama for the championship Kellys going to have to pull the rabbit out of the hat with some sort of trickery
 

Spitfire

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Exactly. Oregon's run game is by designed. I encourage everyone to read up on the zone read option that Oregon runs, fishduck.com is a good resource. Oregon doesn't rack up rushing yards the same way Alabama does, they don't have overpowering offensive linemen. They run for so many yards because they spread the defense out, and give the QB a rush/handoff option, sometimes a rush/pass/handoff option. But part of that is exposing your QB to getting hit by having him rush.

If you want a good pro football example of how Notre Dame's offense is structured this year watch New Orleans. They almost rarely just line it up and pound it, but they utilize the short passing game as an extension of the run game to keep teams honest.

And honestly if pounding it is not our strength and the opposing team has the box stacked why would we just pound it up the middle for 2 yards when attack the perimeter of swing it out to Bryant or Folston in space? That's not to say running it up the gut isn't possible, it is but you have to "take what the other team gives you." If they're spread out and you see weakness up up the middle then that's where we should attack. "Balance" means so much more than just strapping it on and pounding like Alabama. Almost no team can do that, you actually need a lot more talent to play like Alabama does. Teams like A&M, Auburn, Oregon, etc. aren't overflowing with top shelf talent, but their gameplans allow their athletes to get into space and exploit weaknesses in defenses.

I think the problem with all this then lies in the personnel we have because our offensive lineman are all bigger "mauler" types and we continue to recruit those type of players in Elmer, Nelson, Mustipher, Montelus, etc. Ditto with the RB's. Greg Bryant seems like a more physical runner who would get better with more carries, not to mention he is the highest rated RB's to come to ND in decades. Just seems like a waste to have a guy with the skill set of Bryant and relegate him to this style of offense behind an offensive line that seems ill equipped to excel running it. Not sure we will land any more highly rated guys in this type of scheme, but maybe it's just not something real important to the overall success of the offense.
 
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NDdomer2

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Giving him the ball isn't an issue, IMO. Kelly has no problem doing that.

The issue is pass blocking. He would see the field more earlier in games if he was trusted to pick up the blitz.

The most ND ran the ball last night was to end the third and it was a steady dose of GB. But by that time we had torched them on the edge with the pass and had a solid lead.
 
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