Post Game Observations (Florida State '14)

[BleedBlueGold]

I honestly think in 13 seconds we could've easily gotten 3 shots into the endzone. It takes about 4-5 seconds to run a short pass play... 7 seconds is considered the "max" an incomplete pass play should take. So that missed call is really huge.

I'm more upset about this than the OPI. You can't miss that call in a situation like that. The officials, one in particular, totally botched the end of the game. It's funny, because this morning on Evan & Phillips (sirius xm sports radio), they announced this bit of information and Evan was floored. The sports bite guy, Mike, explained to him the whole scenario and then asked, "Now do you think ND got screwed?" Evan immediately replied, "Yes."

Look, I get that what's done is done. But this game was EPIC and destined to be an instant classic. Two unbeaten, top 5 giants, going head to head. Two polar opposite programs in terms of integrity. An unbelievable amount of "noise" surrounding FSU heading into the game. And the outcome was determined by the refs...not the players. It wasn't just the OPI call. But entire last series in the redzone for ND was fudged up. It's sickening and ruined what could've been a spectacular finish to one of the best games in CFB this year. Give ND another two or three plays from inside the 10 and I think the score (again).

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Don't know if this has been stated as I'm not going to review all the pages.

I like it that BK stood up and called out FSU and the ACC refs. He - to the best of my recollection - has never done that at ND. He's always taken it on the chin, sucked it up, and moved on. Tactical move.

Do not like the CW bashing. He tried but just couldn't hackk the HC opportunity. As an OC, he was pretty good. But really, a RB screen does not an OC make. I love them too-especially if it's up the middle and caught by the "Bus". Times change and everyone has to adapt. I have.

In this instance, I think Kelly's response was a tactical move. ND benefits if the national conversation focuses on how ND lost to Florida State on a controversial call.

 

[NDohio]

In this instance, I think Kelly's response was a tactical move. ND benefits if the national conversation focuses on how ND lost to Florida State on a controversial call.

I agree. His response was all about getting us into the playoffs and firing up his team.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I can only hope this helps the team get laser focused for the back half of the season. Thanks God they aren't playing Navy this weekend. Great time for the bye to decompress, get some rest, get healthy and get fired up to kick some ass the rest of the way. I get the feeling they will hang 1/2 a hundred on Navy. Stay healthy, play 1 game at a time and take care of business. And F*ck F$U.

 

[Jerry]

Do you guys think if they didn't throw the flag people would complain about the no call or just ignore it?

There would probably be a fringe group complaining but I doubt the media would pick up on it much..

 

[Old Man Mike]

McDaniel is DEFINITELY back there to "counsel" Amir as to whether to bring endzone kicks out, and then to take the first penetrating raider. We were playing against who might be the best kicker in the country, as to accuracy, and their plan was to kick it to the extreme edge that Cam was on. Most teams cannot do that. If anyone wants to replace Cam back there, they better do it with someone who can fill his defined role.

 

[kmoose]

I'm pretty sure cam is back there to block. FSU just so happened to kick it to him. Carlisle was doing pretty good up until his injury. Maybe get Tori Hunter back there and see what happens?

I don't think so. Cam was often on kickoff return, last year, as well. Cam is fine on kickoffs. He doesn't have the breakaway speed, for sure, but he is very good at securing the football, and it's not like he is slow.

 

[Bluto]

I don't think so. Cam was often on kickoff return, last year, as well. Cam is fine on kickoffs. He doesn't have the breakaway speed, for sure, but he is very good at securing the football, and it's not like he is slow.

I disagree and by the way.....that offensive pass interference call was complete bullshit! Haha.

 

[kmoose]

I disagree and by the way.....that offensive pass interference call was complete bullshit! Haha.

You should ask for your money back. That bait you're using is rotten!

 

[Bluto]

You should ask for your money back. That bait you're using is rotten!

I've moved on. Livin in a van down by the river now. It's kinda nice.

 

[GATTACA!]

I've moved on. Livin in a van down by the river now. It's kinda nice.

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

I don't think so. Cam was often on kickoff return, last year, as well. Cam is fine on kickoffs. He doesn't have the breakaway speed, for sure, but he is very good at securing the football, and it's not like he is slow.

I'm not a big fan of Cam returnig kickoffs. He is good back there when he is leading the way for Amir, but he is slow and seems to have little shake when he is the one returning the kickoff. Not sure if this was visible on TV, but I noticed it in the stadium. FSU was clearly kicking to Cam early in the game rather than Amir. There were some sub par returns and somewhere around halftime ND started making an adjustment. As the kicking team would get set to kickoff, Cam and Amir would run across the field and switch positions. Amir ended up taking the majority of the kicks after they started doing this. I seem to remember the returns improving then.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I don't think so. Cam was often on kickoff return, last year, as well. Cam is fine on kickoffs. He doesn't have the breakaway speed, for sure, but he is very good at securing the football, and it's not like he is slow.

I agree to an extent. I don't have a problem with Cam returning kicks for ball security and for that steady decision making and decent ability to make something happen with the ball in his hands...that being said I guess I would like to see somebody with a big more speed and explosion back there. Cam is shifty, physical and smart but I would love to see Fuller back there. I know there is probably concern with him getting hurt and how much we need him in the passing game, but he is explosive. shifty, has great vision and can hit a crease and be gone. I guess to me if you're trying to win football games, get the ball in your best playmakes hands as much as possible, and KO return is another 3-6 changes per game to get the ball in the hands of somebody like Fuller, Folston or Bryant (if he can learn from experience to make up his mind and go)

 

[NDTH91]

I agree to an extent. I don't have a problem with Cam returning kicks for ball security and for that steady decision making and decent ability to make something happen with the ball in his hands...that being said I guess I would like to see somebody with a big more speed and explosion back there. Cam is shifty, physical and smart but I would love to see Fuller back there. I know there is probably concern with him getting hurt and how much we need him in the passing game, but he is explosive. shifty, has great vision and can hit a crease and be gone. I guess to me if you're trying to win football games, get the ball in your best playmakes hands as much as possible, and KO return is another 3-6 changes per game to get the ball in the hands of somebody like Fuller, Folston or Bryant (if he can learn from experience to make up his mind and go)

It's like Kelly has never played Madden before - just figure who has the highest speed rating and make them your kick returner. Only joking a little bit. MOAR SPEED PLEASE.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

It's like Kelly has never played Madden before - just figure who has the highest speed rating and make them your kick returner. Only joking a little bit. MOAR SPEED PLEASE.

On that note, has anybody else noticed that Prosise seems to be a lot faster than you realized? I know he has shown a heck of a lot more athleticism and speed than I had given him credit for....I had previously thought of him more as our Daniel Smith/physical type guy..

 

[zelezo vlk]

CJ Sanders on kick return next year?

 

[NDTH91]

On that note, has anybody else noticed that Prosise seems to be a lot faster than you realized? I know he has shown a heck of a lot more athleticism and speed than I had given him credit for....I had previously thought of him more as our Daniel Smith/physical type guy..

That's weird, I've always seen him as more of a blazer. I forget which game it was (maybe the spring game?) he caught a ball over the middle and ran around some people to the outside and I just remember thinking "now THATS the speed we've been missing!"

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

That's weird, I've always seen him as more of a blazer. I forget which game it was (maybe the spring game?) he caught a ball over the middle and ran around some people to the outside and I just remember thinking "now THATS the speed we've been missing!"

I guess that's sort of what I'm saying...previous to this year I had this perception of him as a move the chains/physical guy..likely just from not seeing enough of him and knowing he is a bigger receiver and came in on the other side of the ball...seeing him on the field this year it didn't take long for me to recognize I had drastically underrated his speed and athleticism.

 

[BGIF]

I'm not a big fan of Cam returnig kickoffs. He is good back there when he is leading the way for Amir, but he is slow and seems to have little shake when he is the one returning the kickoff. Not sure if this was visible on TV, but I noticed it in the stadium. FSU was clearly kicking to Cam early in the game rather than Amir. There were some sub par returns and somewhere around halftime ND started making an adjustment. As the kicking team would get set to kickoff, Cam and Amir would run across the field and switch positions. Amir ended up taking the majority of the kicks after they started doing this. I seem to remember the returns improving then.

Unless there is an errors in the official play by play record Amir only returned one kick. That's not even the majority in the game much less after a position adjustment halfway through the game.

ND returned 4 kickoffs in the game. There were 2 in the first half, 1 each quarter, and 2 in the second half, both in the 3rd quarter.

Cam returned 3 kicks in the FSU game - the first 3 kicks. On the day he averaged 16.3 yds/kick. Cam has only returned 3 kicks this season, all in the FSU game. Against ND's toughest opponent to date.

Amir's 1 return against FSU averaged 17 yds/kick all of 0.7 yds/kick more than Cam. Not much of difference.


1Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 63 yards to the ND2, MCDANIEL return 20 yards to the ND22
2Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 62 yards to the ND3, MCDANIEL return 13 yards to the ND16
3Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 64 yards to the ND1, MCDANIEL return 16 yards to the ND17
3Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 51 yards to the ND14, CARLISLE return 18 yards to the ND32


Bryant didn't return any against FSU. He has 3 returns during the season averaging 20.7 yds/game.

Amir has returned 10 kicks averaging 20 yds/kick. He has a long of 47. Interestingly if you drop that kick, he's averaged 17.0 yds/kick similar to Cam.

I also raise a question on how Cam's returns would be if he had Cam blocking for him?

When Cam returns a kick, our best blocker isn't blocking for the return man.


Despite perceptions there isn't much difference between the kick returners through 17 kicks returns.

 

[Cackalacky]

Unless there is an errors in the official play by play record Amir only returned one kick. That's not even the majority in the game much less after a position adjustment halfway through the game.

ND returned 4 kickoffs in the game. There were 2 in the first half, 1 each quarter, and 2 in the second half, both in the 3rd quarter.

Cam returned 3 kicks in the FSU game - the first 3 kicks. On the day he averaged 16.3 yds/kick. Cam has only returned 3 kicks this season, all in the FSU game. Against ND's toughest opponent to date.

Amir's 1 return against FSU averaged 17 yds/kick all of 0.7 yds/kick more than Cam. Not much of difference.


1Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 63 yards to the ND2, MCDANIEL return 20 yards to the ND22
2Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 62 yards to the ND3, MCDANIEL return 13 yards to the ND16
3Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 64 yards to the ND1, MCDANIEL return 16 yards to the ND17
3Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 51 yards to the ND14, CARLISLE return 18 yards to the ND32


Bryant didn't return any against FSU. He has 3 returns during the season averaging 20.7 yds/game.

Amir has returned 10 kicks averaging 20 yds/kick. He has a long of 47. Interestingly if you drop that kick, he's averaged 17.0 yds/kick similar to Cam.

I also raise a question on how Cam's returns would be if he had Cam blocking for him?

When Cam returns a kick, our best blocker isn't blocking for the return man.


Despite perceptions there isn't much difference between the kick returners through 17 kicks returns.

I respectfully request that you stop making so much sense BGIF.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

If you think cam is a good blocker, ima have to ask you to rewatch kick returns. He also waits to long to go start blocking, just stares at returner till returner is on his arse

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If you think cam is a good blocker, ima have to ask you to rewatch kick returns. He also waits to long to go start blocking, just stares at returner till returner is on his arse

These poorly spelled #HotTakes are really getting tiresome, TOWK. And we've already got GBDomer for that anyway*.

OFD's Punter Bro has published an in-depth film review of ND's Special Teams after every game this year so far. Educate yourself by reading a few of them if you'd like to continue discussing this topic.

Cam is back there with Carlisle because he's the best point blocker we have. He hasn't been perfect this year, but he has provided the crucial first block on several of this year's best returns.





*Just kidding, Sully!

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

If you think cam is a good blocker, ima have to ask you to rewatch kick returns. He also waits to long to go start blocking, just stares at returner till returner is on his arse

I think Cam is a good blocker when he is not babysitting Carlisle. That frustrates me to no end. Just always go block someone and let Carlisle make the decision when to come out. Does he really need cam to stand in front of him and tell him whether to bring it out?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think Cam is a good blocker when he is not babysitting Carlisle. That frustrates me to no end. Just always go block someone and let Carlisle make the decision when to come out. Does he really need cam to stand in front of him and tell him whether to bring it out?

Yes, he apparently does:

ND Kick Return

Like UNC's kick return, ND's was not very successful on Saturday. Amir Carlisle took 4 kickoffs for 60 total yards, a dismal average of 15 yards per return. His longest return went for 21 yards. Ben Koyack, officially, was credited with a -3 yard return for recovering the onsides kick.

ND's return woes were a result of a very good coverage unit in UNC and poor blocking. Here is one such example, Amir's shortest return of the day: 12 yards.

Amir's first problem was he ignored the advice of Cam McDaniel, who clearly thought Amir was going to down this ball, almost 5 yards deep in the endzone. Since he did not, Amir basically ran headlong into the coverage team with no lead blocker. The second problem was multiple members of the return team (including but not limited to: Durham Smythe, James Onwualu, Ben Councell) wiffed on their blocks, giving UNC players an unimpeded lane to Carlisle. This was a kick that Amir should have downed in the endzone but at the same time, the team needs to make their blocks.

This wasn't the first time Amir has wrongly decided not to take a knee.

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

Unless there is an errors in the official play by play record Amir only returned one kick. That's not even the majority in the game much less after a position adjustment halfway through the game.

ND returned 4 kickoffs in the game. There were 2 in the first half, 1 each quarter, and 2 in the second half, both in the 3rd quarter.

Cam returned 3 kicks in the FSU game - the first 3 kicks. On the day he averaged 16.3 yds/kick. Cam has only returned 3 kicks this season, all in the FSU game. Against ND's toughest opponent to date.

Amir's 1 return against FSU averaged 17 yds/kick all of 0.7 yds/kick more than Cam. Not much of difference.


1Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 63 yards to the ND2, MCDANIEL return 20 yards to the ND22
2Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 62 yards to the ND3, MCDANIEL return 13 yards to the ND16
3Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 64 yards to the ND1, MCDANIEL return 16 yards to the ND17
3Q Aguayo, R. kickoff 51 yards to the ND14, CARLISLE return 18 yards to the ND32


Bryant didn't return any against FSU. He has 3 returns during the season averaging 20.7 yds/game.

Amir has returned 10 kicks averaging 20 yds/kick. He has a long of 47. Interestingly if you drop that kick, he's averaged 17.0 yds/kick similar to Cam.

I also raise a question on how Cam's returns would be if he had Cam blocking for him?

When Cam returns a kick, our best blocker isn't blocking for the return man.


Despite perceptions there isn't much difference between the kick returners through 17 kicks returns.

Thanks for taking the time to look at the stats. I guess there was not as much if a difference as I thought. Didnt realize the kick thy Amir returned was so short as I was going from memory. I still think most of us would agree that Amir gives more upside and cam would be the preferred blocker of the two.

 

[Pachuco]

Again, for clarification's sake, never meant it as a dig on Cam.

He's definitely been excellent as a blocker.

I would just love to see more warp speed.

I suppose you can't have the best of both worlds in a double package.

And to his credit, Cam HAS had several really nice returns in his career.

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

Yes, he apparently does:



This wasn't the first time Amir has wrongly decided not to take a knee.

Yeah but if Cam is out blocking on that play instead of doing nothing but telling Amir what to do, it is arguably a different return situation.

It's like a bad joke- how many Notre Dame return men does it take to decide whether a kick should be returned.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah but if Cam is out blocking on that play instead of doing nothing but telling Amir what to do, it is arguably a different return situation.

Not a chance, at least not on that play. Three other players had completely whiffed on their blocks. Cam's block wouldn't have made a difference.

Cam does block when the circumstances call for a return, and he's provided some critical blocks this season already.

 

[Rocknes Ghost]

Not a chance, at least not on that play. Three other players had completely whiffed on their blocks. Cam's block wouldn't have made a difference.

Cam does block when the circumstances call for a return, and he's provided some critical blocks this season already.

Probably true- but if you block one more guy it could at least be a better return. I also don't mean to dig on Cam. It seems clear that he was told previously to do that. There have been other plays where Cam has come over like that and then they decided to go and I felt like he was less in position than if he was just focused on blocking. Ideally, whoever is returning the kicks can make the call himself and doesn't need someone else to tell him the decision. I do think Cam is a good blocker, I just get frustrated by the need to have him stand with his back to the cover team in that situation.

 

[Cackalacky]

CAM is like the most dependable person on the entire team. SMH.