Post Game Impressions

[nsisk157]

I watched most of the replay of the game last night on CBS sports network and could not get over how bad, cliche and uninformed the commentating duo were. (re-watched due to low sound at the pub Saturday morning..)

To date, Vern's best work still can be seen in "Happy Gilmore."

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

...could not get over how bad, cliche and uninformed the commentating duo were.

At the top of the broadcast, when one of them said that Golson was a true freshman, I knew we were in trouble. I was really shocked by how bad they were. Thats the SEC crew, right? I would expect them to have some level of skill and knowledge.

 

[Irishman77]

Hey guys,

Finally back from my dream week. Saturday was absolutely perfect. Aviva is easily the nicest and most beautiful stadium I have ever been in.

I have a ton of pictures from the week and the game, and will work on trying to upload and share them. Have some great stories from the week - including a hysterical one concerning Cris Collinsworth.

Stephon Tuitt and Jarron Jones are so unbelievably massive in person. I can't understand how someone can be that large and athletic.

Hated to leave, but my liver couldn't handle another day. Great start for our boys - there was no point in that game anyone there thought it was in question. Both lines had complete control.

Awesome. Can't wait to hear the collinworth story.

 

[PANDFAN]

Haven't really been able to post these thoughts, but here it goes...

* Stephon Tuitt will be a top 10 draft pick whenever he decides to leave and he will make that NFL team very happy.

* If you take away Golson's INT he played a perfect game. 12-18 passing, 3 of those incompletions were easy drops. Stud.

* Our wide receivers are going to be better than expected.
* Our tight ends are the best group in the country and its not even up for debate. If Eifert goes down you still have Niklas and Koyack(case of the dropsies, but he'll be fine). Niklas was a great blocker.

* Our running back group when Cierre gets back is going to be scary. It's scary right now, but against MSU you legitimately have four running backs capable of carrying the ball

* Ishaq needs to be on the field. When he is plays are made.

* Shembo played well, Manti played great, and not mentioned much during the game but Kapron Lewis Moore and Louis Nix quietly had huge games.

* Our secondary will be a weakness, but I do not think it will be as bad as some people are saying. The scheme we were doing was inviting them to pass the ball. We had no deep safeties. This week will be interesting to see how the secondary does. One thing is certain, we will not be running press coverage against most teams this year.

*We really really need Tommy Rees back because our place holder position is lacking.

*I know it is one week, but I believe we are a better team that expected.

what did you see from them that proved this and not an attack just want Ur reasonings? I liked the down field blocking..Tj looked quick in his 2 back screens..and dd had nice hands but terrible routes that a decent db would have at very least knock it down more likely int...plus he physically got pushed out which shouldn't happen...I realize he is a first year player but nothing I saw gave me much confidence...

 

[notredomer23]

what did you see from them that proved this and not an attack just want Ur reasonings? I liked the down field blocking..Tj looked quick in his 2 back screens..and dd had nice hands but terrible routes that a decent db would have at very least knock it down more likely int...plus he physically got pushed out which shouldn't happen...I realize he is a first year player but nothing I saw gave me much confidence...

I thought Daniels looked pretty good personally catching the ball and getting open which was a concern, although I do agree his route running was pretty bad. TJ looked really quick and I believe will be our best WR. It was vanilla, I just thought they looked really good blocking and catching the ball was solid which we weren't even sure about going into the game. I guess I need to see more before claiming they will be better than expected. I think Kelly is saving Chris Brown for MSU or Purdue if we really need him

 

[Buster Bluth]

Haven't really been able to post these thoughts, but here it goes...

* Stephon Tuitt will be a top 10 draft pick whenever he decides to leave and he will make that NFL team very happy.

Let's wait until he has 12 sacks this season to anoint him of that.

* If you take away Golson's INT he played a perfect game. 12-18 passing, 3 of those incompletions were easy drops. Stud.

Hardly. The offense was extremely vanilla, you can't call a guy a stud when his team runs dives 70% of the time and is dominating the opponent. You have to overcome actual challenges to be labeled a stud.

* Our wide receivers are going to be better than expected.

Based on?

* Our tight ends are the best group in the country and its not even up for debate. If Eifert goes down you still have Niklas and Koyack(case of the dropsies, but he'll be fine). Niklas was a great blocker.

* Our running back group when Cierre gets back is going to be scary. It's scary right now, but against MSU you legitimately have four running backs capable of carrying the ball.

* Ishaq needs to be on the field. When he is plays are made.

* Shembo played well, Manti played great, and not mentioned much during the game but Kapron Lewis Moore and Louis Nix quietly had huge games.

I don't buy the four carriers figure, but yeah I generally agree.

* Our secondary will be a weakness, but I do not think it will be as bad as some people are saying. The scheme we were doing was inviting them to pass the ball. We had no deep safeties. This week will be interesting to see how the secondary does. One thing is certain, we will not be running press coverage against most teams this year.

It's difficult to say "we were inviting them to throw," and write if off. Russell still got beat by a backup Navy WR. Diaco will not be inviting teams to throw, and yet they will attack Russell and Motta until further notice.

 

[georgia irish]

ND in LA Cierre rushing yards against USC Stanford, and Mich St were not very good and Fsu go back and look it up.I hope i'm wrong but last year he didn't seem to perform well in the big games,and against Mich he did well but they don't have the defense the others have.Maybe this year he will be better against the better teams,I hope he does.Now you have a nice labor day I'm going to a barbecue and I want be near a computer.

 

[RallySon]

He may have not performed well against faster defenses but we weren't very dynamic last year. Especially with Rees.

Double bracket floyd and put a drop on Eifert.

Rush everyone else.

 

[FLDomer]

ND in LA Cierre rushing yards against USC Stanford, and Mich St were not very good and Fsu go back and look it up.I hope i'm wrong but last year he didn't seem to perform well in the big games,and against Mich he did well but they don't have the defense the others have.Maybe this year he will be better against the better teams,I hope he does.Now you have a nice labor day I'm going to a barbecue and I want be near a computer.

Against MSU he averaged 4.4 yds a carry and had 2 TDs. The other games, USC, Stan, and FSU all dominated our oline (besides fsu). I don't think any back would have had a good game against those teams. MSU we controlled the line of scrimmage and Wood had a solid game. IMO he is our best back and we are lucky to not have much drop off behind him.

 

[NDinL.A.]

ND in LA Cierre rushing yards against USC Stanford, and Mich St were not very good and Fsu go back and look it up.I hope i'm wrong but last year he didn't seem to perform well in the big games,and against Mich he did well but they don't have the defense the others have.Maybe this year he will be better against the better teams,I hope he does.Now you have a nice labor day I'm going to a barbecue and I want be near a computer.

You should read my responses to you just a little more carefully before responding. So I guess I'll rehash it. He had 5 carries against USC. Again, not his fault, that's on BK and Molnar. Against Stanford and FSU, the verdict was already out on how to defend ND with Rees, and teams just keyed on stopping the run and stuffing the box. And aside from that the field was so torn up against Stanford that every time he tried to cut, he slipped and left several yards on the field. And against MSU, he averaged 4.5 yards a carry against the best rush defense we played all year, plus he had 2 TDs. And Michigan is a big game and he had 125 yds rushing and a TD.

He did this with a QB that allowed teams to stuff the box b/c they knew he wouldn't beat them over the top. CW had a great year and brought it all year, other than the USC game when he was handcuffed by a serious lack of carries.

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

I think any Cierre Wood start or not start argument is fairly moot. The discernible difference between Riddick and Wood is small if any IMO. Riddick looked every bit as shiftty, fast, powerful as Wood. Whichever back can pass protect better would be my choice for the bulk of the snaps. Keeping a young QB healthy and away from constant pressure is important as to avoid the David Carr effect.

What I really want to see though is GA3 get 10+ touches a game and Davonte Neal get 5+ a game. Riddick and Wood are great backs but these two guys provide a special ability that is paramount in college football, the ability to break a big play. Fumbling is a concern with GA3, but his elite speed is the kind of thing that torches college LBs and DBs and is the centerpiece of the most successful spread offense over the last 5 years in Oregon. That being said I love how they were both utilized against Navy and hope for more of the same moving forward.

 

[RallySon]

I don't believe Riddick is anywhere near as fast as Wood.

They may be similar acceleration wise but Riddick does not have that extra gear.

I remember him getting ran down from behind last year by some scrub that didn't even have an angle on him.

 

[jcun]

Far be it from me to put words in anyone's mouth, but IF Cierre really did mean to refer to the Navy game as a "scrimmage" in the aforementioned tweet, that doesn't sit right with me. No need to disrespect Navy.

And I think this whole "Cierre vs. Theo" debate would be at a whole different level if Theo hadn't gotten jerked around his entire time at ND. If the dude got to stay in the backfield who knows what he'd be capable of at this point...

 

[RallySon]

Navy has nearly crippled some of our players with their scumbag coach all but bragging about his chop blocking schemes being legal.

What respect do they deserve from our players?

Calling that game a scrimmage on twitter. Who cares? Is this ndnation forums?

 

[jcun]

I'll jump to the defense of any ND player in these kind of cases, but I still think it's best to just not go there...

 

[TheTurningPoint]

I dont really have a problem with it. I agree its borderline, but Ill take a 40pt win, and the swagger/confidence/cockyness that comes with it.

 

[NDinFL]

I dont really have a problem with it. I agree its borderline, but Ill take a 40pt win, and the swagger/confidence/cockyness that comes with it.

As long as they can move and maintain their collective focus to the next opponent (in this case purdue) then, yeah, I'm fine with it too

 

[TheChosen1]

I don't believe Riddick is anywhere near as fast as Wood.

They may be similar acceleration wise but Riddick does not have that extra gear.

I remember him getting ran down from behind last year by some scrub that didn't even have an angle on him.

I'll take either one. Glad ND has both

 

[UmphreakDomer]

after watching "trick shot monday"--i rescind all questions about cierre from my earlier posts and questions i had about his tweets. he's fine. teams fine. he made a mistake and is taking his punishment. he will be back against state and will be fine.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

after watching "trick shot monday"--i rescind all questions about cierre from my earlier posts and questions i had about his tweets. he's fine. teams fine. he made a mistake and is taking his punishment. he will be back against state and will be fine.

How do you think his teammates think about him coming back to start again when they're putting up big numbers? Should he not re-earn his spot back?

 

[UmphreakDomer]

How do you think his teammates think about him coming back to start again when they're putting up big numbers? Should he not re-earn his spot back?

HCTI--you make a valid point. you really do. but, i had already said in a previous post that i think his suspension can be looked at as time served.

we just dont know how the touches are being divvied up in practice. hence, my question from before. i think, if there is no significant drop off in production due to the suspension, to be re-inserted in to the line up is not out of the question. let's remember that by the mid-end of the season jonas was technically starting, even though wood was not a "back up".

i dont think riddick starting is a bad thing. and GA3 a proven that he can handle the rock for about 6-10 maybe 12 times per game.

i guess my question back to you is:
does this only matter to you based on semantics?
meaning, he shouldn't "start" because of his lack of judgement? but, its ok to "come off the bench" and maybe get as many, if not more, carries than at least riddick and probably ga3 and amir?

i think he has paid his dues to the system and the coaches. i also think he has paid his debt back to the team by sitting the first 2 games...one of which being a trip of a lifetime to ireland.
as did, tommy, justin, and carlo.

 

[Irish To The Core]

I don't believe Riddick is anywhere near as fast as Wood.

They may be similar acceleration wise but Riddick does not have that extra gear.

I remember him getting ran down from behind last year by some scrub that didn't even have an angle on him.

"Believe" what you wish. Coming out of high school Cierre was clocked at 4.5 and Theo 4.4. I have seen nothing to contradict those numbers. Belief has nothing to do with it.

Last year by his own admission Cierre and Jonas were a coin flip in side by side 40's. Jonas' lowest 40 time (as per nfldraftscout.com) is a 4.47.

I am not a Cierre Wood hater. I think he was very good last year. But Theo and GA III looked good (and let's face it the O-Line looked good to spring them over and over) and they will have one more week to impress. I cannot believe that CW has been getting the same number of reps in practice that he would normally get AND practice reps are in no way equivalent to carries during a real game. By week 3 Cierre will have a bit of rust to work out and he will be going against an MSU d which has had two real games to work out the kinks. That is reality. I would expect Theo to get the most carries vs. MSU while GAIII and Cierre split the remainder. After week three I would expect the coaches to go with the guy who is producing. Either way I am certain it will be a committee approach with all three getting their carries. I see that as a positive as it will reduce the wear and tear on all three guys. McDaniels looks good and in the event of an injury he looks like he could be a productive "next guy in".

When I posted that Cierre should be looking over his shoulder, I meant that as a compliment to Riddick, Atkinson and McDaniels not as a slight towards Cierre.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

HCTI--you make a valid point. you really do. but, i had already said in a previous post that i think his suspension can be looked at as time served.

we just dont know how the touches are being divvied up in practice. hence, my question from before. i think, if there is no significant drop off in production due to the suspension, to be re-inserted in to the line up is not out of the question. let's remember that by the mid-end of the season jonas was technically starting, even though wood was not a "back up".

i dont think riddick starting is a bad thing. and GA3 a proven that he can handle the rock for about 6-10 maybe 12 times per game.

i guess my question back to you is:
does this only matter to you based on semantics?
meaning, he shouldn't "start" because of his lack of judgement? but, its ok to "come off the bench" and maybe get as many, if not more, carries than at least riddick and probably ga3 and amir?

i think he has paid his dues to the system and the coaches. i also think he has paid his debt back to the team by sitting the first 2 games...one of which being a trip of a lifetime to ireland.
as did, tommy, justin, and carlo.

Thanks for a well thought out post... These are far and few between around here.

That said, I don't base anything on semantics. This competition opens back up tomorrow morning. No way in hell I'd hand it back to him. The other kids have worked their asses off and done it the right way. If he comes back in and blows Theo and GA3's doors off, he should start......but if he doesn't, then they should. They've earned the right..... Cierre's currently under a team sanctioned drug suspension coming back. I'd give them first shot and make Cierre earn his way back.

Keep in mind, we do things differently at ND. We usually take the moral high ground... I hope things don't change with this case either.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

If Wood dances around in the backfield and does a spin move on every carry, Riddick and Atkinson are going to get the bulk of the work. If Wood runs hard, he's going to see plenty of carries.

I really don't see why this is such a big deal. We have a giant stable of very talented runners. Let Coach Kelly work it out; we can all just sit back and watch.

 

[koonja]

Thanks for a well thought out post... These are far and few between around here.

That said, I don't base anything on semantics. This competition opens back up tomorrow morning. No way in hell I'd hand it back to him. The other kids have worked their asses off and done it the right way. If he comes back in and blows Theo and GA3's doors off, he should start......but if he doesn't, then they should. They've earned the right..... Cierre's currently under a team sanctioned drug suspension coming back. I'd give them first shot and make Cierre earn his way back.

Keep in mind, we do things differently at ND. We usually take the moral high ground... I hope things don't change with this case either.

You don't know the whole story, unless, if you do, please share what Cierre did. As far as determining who's working hard and who isn't, are you one of the coaches? Do you see every practice? Seriously, do you? TP (who I'll go out on a limb and say knows more about the team, the practices, and more specifically, the RBs) has said Cierre is the best running back we have and it is not an opinion. If you can believe that, then he should start after his 2 game suspension, no? Not ride the pine and eventually be worked in just because our other backs had good games against Navy.

Navy's a small team. Wood's our biggest back, and against a regular sized line he'd be our best man between the tackles. That starts mattering asap against MSU.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

Thanks for a well thought out post... These are far and few between around here.

That said, I don't base anything on semantics. This competition opens back up tomorrow morning. No way in hell I'd hand it back to him. The other kids have worked their asses off and done it the right way. If he comes back in and blows Theo and GA3's doors off, he should start......but if he doesn't, then they should. They've earned the right..... Cierre's currently under a team sanctioned drug suspension coming back. I'd give them first shot and make Cierre earn his way back.

Keep in mind, we do things differently at ND. We usually take the moral high ground... I hope things don't change with this case either.

i really do agree with what you are saying. however, i believe notre dame has already taken that moral high ground. that's our difference of opinion. that is also why i think we are dealing with semantics here. it really doesnt matter *who* starts (at least at this position because of depth and what seems to be pretty decent production--all the way to and including robby toma). i just think you are looking at the moniker of "starter" like it's the person chosen to wear the crown. that may be true for certain positions, i.e. the QB, but not so much in this case, IMHO. i understand the ramifications. he made a bonehead decision and again, i believe he has paid that debt back.

i also believe, or hope might be a better verb, that cierre has learned his lesson.

so just to clarify, your not suggesting his workload be affected, just whether or not he's in the first personnel grouping?

i guess we will see what happens over the next two weeks in practice and the decision that is reached. you never know--maybe BK/CM go with a two back split set to open up against MSU.

lets reconvene in about 13 days and chat about it. it really is an excellent discussion and lends weight to not only the program (vs. others), but also the fan base. we expect and accept punishment where others, a la, usc's and most SEC schools turn blind eyes and the general fan bases think punishment is for the weak.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

I don't care if its 103 - 0, IMHO from the first play of the game till the last, on offense you play to score and on defense you play to stop them. This is tackle football....go all out, all the time, or go home. If I was on the losing team I'd be pissed and insulted if someone "took it easy" on me.

I totally agree, very good point. I liked how the Savanna coach came out after the game and stated that the game could have been a lot worse, I think OKLA St pulled their starters in the 2nd quarter? I understand the reasoning behing pulling the starters, to avoid injury,and the fact you really don't need to have your first team out their to finish the game. I also see the point of running our offense normally even with a lead, if any player from the first team goes down, those backups that game in, in the 3rd will be out there battling against the other teams 1st string, and they need to be ready, even when it's mop-up duties in a blow out. Need to play the entire game like your losing, even the 2nd and 3rd string players that come in. If you don't give 100% as a second stringer, your never going to make it to the 1st team offense/defense. Again, I'm happy Kelly kept scoring, that was a reason behind some of our close games last year, we would let off the gas pedal with the lead, I'm hoping Kelly as it looks like he has, learned from his mistakes from the Michigan game, when we were leading going into the 4th.

 

[Veer option]

ND dropping 50 on Navy is as much a litmus test of the team as the skunkbears getting physically abused by one of the top defenses in the country. Ill reserve my impressions of the team after the Purdue game.

 

[RallySon]

"Believe" what you wish. Coming out of high school Cierre was clocked at 4.5 and Theo 4.4. I have seen nothing to contradict those numbers. Belief has nothing to do with it.

Last year by his own admission Cierre and Jonas were a coin flip in side by side 40's. Jonas' lowest 40 time (as per nfldraftscout.com) is a 4.47.

I am not a Cierre Wood hater. I think he was very good last year. But Theo and GA III looked good (and let's face it the O-Line looked good to spring them over and over) and they will have one more week to impress. I cannot believe that CW has been getting the same number of reps in practice that he would normally get AND practice reps are in no way equivalent to carries during a real game. By week 3 Cierre will have a bit of rust to work out and he will be going against an MSU d which has had two real games to work out the kinks. That is reality. I would expect Theo to get the most carries vs. MSU while GAIII and Cierre split the remainder. After week three I would expect the coaches to go with the guy who is producing. Either way I am certain it will be a committee approach with all three getting their carries. I see that as a positive as it will reduce the wear and tear on all three guys. McDaniels looks good and in the event of an injury he looks like he could be a productive "next guy in".

When I posted that Cierre should be looking over his shoulder, I meant that as a compliment to Riddick, Atkinson and McDaniels not as a slight towards Cierre.

Like I said, acceleration is different than speed. 40 times don't directly correlate with top end. Theo is extremely quick, great balance, and his acceleration after a cut is remarkable. I was just let down last year when he was in open space a few times and couldn't get home.

 

[peoriairish]

For those complaining about the pass rush lacking, BK just said that this past game against Navy was a completely different pass rush than we will see all season. So pull the reigns and let the man coach.