Politics

[NorthDakota]

Yeah that's an unfortunate reality of a lot of these podcast philosophers. They know how to destroy college freshmen who have thought about their position for an hour in class, but rarely substantively push debate any further because they are usually just parroting what smarter people have previously argued. Arguing abortion against a political science major with a 3.0 GPA from Berkley is well rehearsed parlor trick for Shapiro. Not that it's not valuable for at least exposing a different view, but it should be the beginning of people's reading, not a persuasive argument to settle the matter.

As to the remainder of your post, that's why free speech is so important, and why I've never been particularly worried by political correctness as a real movement. When your argument is so clearly and easily destroyed by any semblance of introspection, it can't last. Good ideas last, bad ones are either forgotten or serve as future warnings.

The only way you could get me to so much as say hello to Ben Shapiro would be in a soundproof room with just the two of us... and I agree with him on most things. No way in hell I'm exposing myself to him in front of people.

 

[wizards8507]

Yeah that's an unfortunate reality of a lot of these podcast philosophers. They know how to destroy college freshmen who have thought about their position for an hour in class, but rarely substantively push debate any further because they are usually just parroting what smarter people have previously argued. Arguing abortion against a political science major with a 3.0 GPA from Berkley is well rehearsed parlor trick for Shapiro. Not that it's not valuable for at least exposing a different view, but it should be the beginning of people's reading, not a persuasive argument to settle the matter.

As to the remainder of your post, that's why free speech is so important, and why I've never been particularly worried by political correctness as a real movement. When your argument is so clearly and easily destroyed by any semblance of introspection, it can't last. Good ideas last, bad ones are either forgotten or serve as future warnings.

You know Shapiro is an actual genius right? The campus speaking engagements and #ThugLife rekking of undergrads is a strategic play to attract young people to the right.

 

[TDHeysus]

Yeah that's an unfortunate reality of a lot of these podcast philosophers. They know how to destroy college freshmen who have thought about their position for an hour in class, but rarely substantively push debate any further because they are usually just parroting what smarter people have previously argued. Arguing abortion against a political science major with a 3.0 GPA from Berkley is well rehearsed parlor trick for Shapiro.

I can tell by your dismissive statements about Ben, that your knowledge of him is limited.

I'll agree it was low hanging fruit for Ben Shapiro...but just about everyone that wants to debate him is usually reduced to low hanging fruit.

 

[Cackalacky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Events like Harvey are disasters not because of nature but because of underfunding and environmental racism <a href="https://t.co/xa4tVu7alW">https://t.co/xa4tVu7alW</a></p>— American Prospect (@theprospect) <a href="https://twitter.com/theprospect/status/905966489123127303">September 8, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That is 100% correct. This is a well done piece. Our planning and smarts about environmental events are pathetic. How much sense does it make to not build things to withstand known natural events. It is really risk mitigation but when so many people live in New Orleans and homes are not built to withstand hurricans or flooding, bad shit happens.

 

[wizards8507]

That is 100% correct. This is a well done piece. Our planning and smarts about environmental events are pathetic. How much sense does it make to not build things to withstand known natural events. It is really risk mitigation but when so many people live in New Orleans and homes are not built to withstand hurricans or flooding, bad shit happens.

Fine, then write an article about poor urban planning. "Environmental racism" is still horseshit.

 

[Cackalacky]

Fine, then write an article about poor urban planning. "Environmental racism" is still horseshit.

It really isnt.

 

[wizards8507]

It really isnt.

You're why Trump won.

 

[Cackalacky]

You're why Trump won.

Cant be. I didn't vote for him. But you did. I dont expect you to understand environmental racism because you have never understood why environmental hazards are worthy of being stopped in the first place. All you see is government interference and rrstrictions instead of forcing a company or entity who deals with known toxic materials to comply with sensible regulations. Its well known across the globe that minorites and people of color are dispropotionately affected by and live near hazardous site both past and present. Some of this is intentional like the Warren County, NC PCB landfill and some of it is instituional such as where hazardous sites get sited to begin with. But Trump is dismantling the EPA as we speak so you can can go FAP to that.

 

[NorthDakota]

You're why Trump won.

I think some old hag just came out with a book as to how that happened.

 

[wizards8507]

Cant be. I didn't vote for him. But you did. I dont expect you to understand environmental racism because you have never understood why environmental hazards are worthy of being stopped in the first place. All you see is government interference and rrstrictions instead of forcing a company or entity who deals with known toxic materials to comply with sensible regulations. Its well known across the globe that minorites and people of color are dispropotionately affected by and live near hazardous site both past and present. Some of this is intentional like the Warren County, NC PCB landfill and some of it is instituional such as where hazardous sites get sited to begin with. But Trump is dismantling the EPA as we speak so you can can go FAP to that.

None of that is true. It's a caricature. I enthusiastically support severe class action lawsuits against those who pollute common resources. Such actions would be far more severe than piddly EPA fines. And I'd wager I contribute to conservation causes as much as anyone on this board.

Regardless, none of what you're saying has shit to do with racism.

 

[greyhammer90]

You know Shapiro is an actual genius right? The campus speaking engagements and #ThugLife rekking of undergrads is a strategic play to attract young people to the right.

I can tell by your dismissive statements about Ben, that your knowledge of him is limited.

I'll agree it was low hanging fruit for Ben Shapiro...but just about everyone that wants to debate him is usually reduced to low hanging fruit.

Put down your pitchforks Shapiro disciples. Did I say he wasn't intelligent? I'm subscribed to his podcast and have read Brainwashed. The fact remains that his arguments for a lot of these hot button issues such as abortion are trite. (Which is not necessarily to say wrong.) That's totally fine, because he provides an alternative viewpoint for people who need to be challenged, but yeah a college liberal freshmen against Shapiro isn't a dialogue in the same way that a freshmen theology major against Christopher Hitchens wouldn't be a dialogue.

 

[Cackalacky]

None of that is true. It's a caricature. I enthusiastically support severe class action lawsuits against those who pollute common resources. Such actions would be far more severe than piddly EPA fines. And I'd wager I contribute to conservation causes as much as anyone on this board.

Regardless, none of what you're saying has shit to do with racism.

Its really not. Anything to do with environmental problems or the EPA and your tampon falls out.

I didnt make an argument in my last post. It will be wasted on you. You can read on Emelle, Alabama and Warren county NC on your own. Thise are prime examples of racism in the realm of how to handle hazardous wastes in the infancy of the EPA and remediation technologies. There are many others. The industrial neck of Charleston is also a prime example. Over 100 years of systematic and purposeful exposure to hazardous chemicals and a general lack of instituional support/controlfor minorites. Much of it occurred because of the new EPA regulations and instead of dealing with their own mess they justified dumping it elsewhere. Guess where that ended up being? It wasnt at the Charleston Country Club. It was smack dab in the middle of the historice freedman's area.

 

[Bluto]

Its really not. Anything to do with environmental problems or the EPA and your tampon falls out.

I didnt make an argument in my last post. It will be wasted on you. You can read on Emelle, Alabama and Warren county NC on your own. Thise are prime examples of racism in the realm of how to handle hazardous wastes in the infancy of the EPA and remediation technologies. There are many others. The industrial neck of Charleston is also a prime example. Over 100 years of systematic and purposeful exposure to hazardous chemicals and a general lack of instituional support/controlfor minorites. Much of it occurred because of the new EPA regulations and instead of dealing with their own mess they justified dumping it elsewhere. Guess where that ended up being? It wasnt at the Charleston Country Club. It was smack dab in the middle of the historice freedman's area.

It's also not a coincidence the place formerly known as "Nigger Slough" a place now known as South East Central Los Angeles floods damn near everytime there is a major rain event.

 

[yankeehater]

None of that is true. It's a caricature. I enthusiastically support severe class action lawsuits against those who pollute common resources. Such actions would be far more severe than piddly EPA fines. And I'd wager I contribute to conservation causes as much as anyone on this board.

Regardless, none of what you're saying has shit to do with racism.

I guess the government needs to sue themselves on this one. I loved their nothing to see attitude after this happened. They ultimately said they did not create the original mess they spilled. Using that reasoning, can't an oil company say they did not create the oil when they spill it.

EPA spill turns Animas River in Colorado a toxic orange - CNN

 

[Cackalacky]

It's also not a coincidence the place formerly known as "Nigger Slough" a place now known as South East Central Los Angeles floods damn near everytime there is a major rain event.

Didnt know that but not surprised. I have personally conducted historical research and field investigations and sampling of numerous sites located in the neck area here. I have personally dug up soil in level III hazmat suits and seen what is below the surface and in the water.

Not only that but when I-26 was built it was located with disregard to the historic freedman neighborhoods in this area. It bisected a community that had existed in whole since Reconstruction. Not only that but when they built the off ramps and overpasses through this area they used the contaminated soils as borrow to build up the elevations of the road. Even with the known hazards of heavy meatal exposure etc they did this with complete disregard out of "necessity".

You will be shocked to know that this area is a cancer hotspot with abnormally high rates of multiple cancers known tobe caused by the virnmental pollutants. But it is all bullshit right.

 

[BGIF]

I guess the government needs to sue themselves on this one. I loved their nothing to see attitude after this happened. They ultimately said they did not create the original mess they spilled. Using that reasoning, can't an oil company say they did not create the oil when they spill it.

... but still get the oil depletion allowance.

 

[yankeehater]

It's also not a coincidence the place formerly known as "Nigger Slough" a place now known as South East Central Los Angeles floods damn near everytime there is a major rain event.

Not sure what you are getting at with this comment and assertion. Is it just this area that floods? Are you saying it is done on purpose? I live in the OC and there are areas that have flooded almost every rain since I was a child and still do to this day and none have been given a derogatory name as the one given above. See Laguna Beach as an example.

BTW Born and raised in So Cal, parents from East LA, and I have never heard the term you used for that area.

 

[Bluto]

Didnt know that but not surprised. I have personally conducted historical research and field investigations and sampling of numerous sites located in the neck area here. I have personally dug up soil in level III hazmat suits and seen what is below the surface and in the water.

Not only that but when I-26 was built it was located with disregard to the historic freedman neighborhoods in this area. It bisected a community that had existed in whole since Reconstruction. Not only that but when they built the off ramps and overpasses through this area they used the contaminated soils as borrow to build up the elevations of the road. Even with the known hazards of heavy meatal exposure etc they did this with complete disregard out of "necessity".

You will be shocked to know that this area is a cancer hotspot with abnormally high rates of multiple cancers known tobe caused by the virnmental pollutants. But it is all bullshit right.

Sadly none of that surprises me. My dad told me stories of how he was sprayed down with DDT and lord knows what else when he came to the US as part of the Bracero program.

 

[yankeehater]

Cant be. I didn't vote for him. But you did. I dont expect you to understand environmental racism because you have never understood why environmental hazards are worthy of being stopped in the first place. All you see is government interference and rrstrictions instead of forcing a company or entity who deals with known toxic materials to comply with sensible regulations. Its well known across the globe that minorites and people of color are dispropotionately affected by and live near hazardous site both past and present. Some of this is intentional like the Warren County, NC PCB landfill and some of it is instituional such as where hazardous sites get sited to begin with. But Trump is dismantling the EPA as we speak so you can can go FAP to that.

I work in a very low income city in Los Angeles County. Unfortunately, what I see on a daily basis is done to communities by people living within their very own community. The amount of dumping that goes on in the city I work is atrocious. Every piece of garage and unwanted item is discarded onto the streets. I took a picture (actually on election day) of a street with trash piled up six feet on each side. I sent the picture out with the caption if communities do this to themselves does it really matter who wins the election.

Now if it is proven the city doesn't pick up the trash in this community, then that would be a problem. I have never heard this being the case and our companies trash is picked up weekly.

 

[Cackalacky]

I work in a very low income city in Los Angeles County. Unfortunately, what I see on a daily basis is done to communities by people living within their very own community. The amount of dumping that goes on in the city I work is atrocious. Every piece of garage and unwanted item is discarded onto the streets. I took a picture (actually on election day) of a street with trash piled up six feet on each side. I sent the picture out with the caption if communities do this to themselves does it really matter who wins the election.

Now if it is proven the city doesn't pick up the trash in this community, then that would be a problem. I have never heard this being the case and our companies trash is picked up weekly.

I am not talking sanitation. I am talking industrial waste, heavy metal hazards, leaking gas tanks, landfill leaching etc.

 

[Bluto]

Not sure what you are getting at with this comment and assertion. Is it just this area that floods? Are you saying it is done on purpose? I live in the OC and there are areas that have flooded almost every rain since I was a child and still do to this day and none have been given a derogatory name as the one given above. See Laguna Beach as an example.

BTW Born and raised in So Cal, parents from East LA, and I have never heard the term you used for that area.

Compton was built on Nigger Slough. It also included parts of Gardena, Carson and Torrence. The point being that one of the few places "niggers" were allowed to buy homes and or live was in an area that was known to flood on a regular basis. If you are genuinely interested in learning more about this I would recommend reading the book The Los Angeles River: Its life, Death and Possible Rebirth.

 

[yankeehater]

I am not talking sanitation. I am talking industrial waste, heavy metal hazards, leaking gas tanks, landfill leaching etc.

Some of these items are included in what I see and unfortunately everything drains to the ocean out here.

 

[yankeehater]

Compton was built on Nigger Slough. The point being that one of the few places "niggers" were allowed to buy homes and or live was in an area that was known to flood on a regular basis. If you are genuinely interested in learning more about this I would recommend reading the book The Los Angeles River: Its life, Death and Possible Rebirth.

I will check it out. Compton demographics have definitely changed over the years.

Demographic shift: Compton's new Latino majority | Al Jazeera America

 

[Cackalacky]

Some of these items are included in what I see and unfortunately everything drains to the ocean out here.

For us we have sandy soils so any contaminant that doesnt get below the water table tends to stick and stay adhered to the sandy soil. It has long residency times. Conversely anything that does get to the water table or below it like drycleaning chemicals it travel very far down gradient. This obviouly impacts any wells or water sources using shallow aquifers. I have collected samples from house well water that ended up having free product in the sample. This was out of a spigot. What this means is that after i collected a sample from the spigot, I let it sit a bit and after a spell the fuel in the water separated. There were clearly defined layers of fuel in this sample sitting on top of the potable water.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Fine, then write an article about poor urban planning. "Environmental racism" is still horseshit.

It's just one more legacy of redlining. It doesn't have to be textbook racist to feel like racism to everyone living in its wake.

 

[wizards8507]

It's just one more legacy of redlining. It doesn't have to be textbook racist to feel like racism to everyone living in its wake.

Until and unless the primarily minority communities you're talking about start generating wealth and moving up to the middle class, it won't change. It's an economic issue, not a racial one. But you have cause and effect backwards, at least in 2017. The poverty rate for Blacks and Hispanics is over double that of non-Hispanic whites. Poor people live in the bad neighborhoods. It's not a conspiracy by racist planners to make the poor neighborhoods bad, it's simply a function of property values.

"Environmental racism" implies the following chain of causation: Blacks and Hispanics live in certain neighborhoods -> Those neighborhoods are deliberately ignored by urban planners and disaster recovery teams.

I think it's more like this: Some neighborhoods are susceptible to natural disaster -> Those areas are less desirable -> Property values drop -> Races and ethnicities that are dispropotionately poor populate those neighborhoods.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Until and unless the primarily minority communities you're talking about start generating wealth and moving up to the middle class, it won't change. It's an economic issue, not a racial one. But you have cause and effect backwards, at least in 2017. The poverty rate for Blacks and Hispanics is over double that of non-Hispanic whites. Poor people live in the bad neighborhoods. It's not a conspiracy by racist planners to make the poor neighborhoods bad, it's simply a function of property values.

It absolutely was a conspiracy by racist planners to group non-whites in ghettos away from white America. This is a historical fact.

"Environmental racism" implies the following chain of causation: Blacks and Hispanics live in certain neighborhoods -> Those neighborhoods are deliberately ignored by urban planners and disaster recovery teams.

I think it's more like this: Some neighborhoods are susceptible to natural disaster -> Those areas are less desirable -> Property values drop -> Races and ethnicities that are dispropotionately poor populate those neighborhoods.

It's not just natural disaster. Poor areas are less likely to receive attention on X issue. Whether it's police/neighborhood relations, economic opportunity, quality of education, or pollution. Environmental racism is the governor of Michigan saying "eh, fuck it. It's just Flint..." because they're poor and don't have political clout...but boy it certainly seems racist to the concentration of blacks in Flint who have white suburban neighbors who didn't get the shaft. And that concentration is largely the result of redlining and other racist planning practices.

Usually the retort is "c'mon that ended in the 1970s" but massive matters like that have an incredible inertia. No one questions why East Germany is noticeably different than West Germany, one is still living with the legacy of communist USSR.

 

[wizards8507]

It absolutely was a conspiracy by racist planners to group non-whites in ghettos away from white America. This is a historical fact.

It's not just natural disaster. Poor areas are less likely to receive attention on X issue. Whether it's police/neighborhood relations, economic opportunity, quality of education, or pollution. Environmental racism is the governor of Michigan saying "eh, fuck it. It's just Flint..." because they're poor and don't have political clout...but boy it certainly seems racist to the concentration of blacks in Flint who have white suburban neighbors who didn't get the shaft. And that concentration is largely the result of redlining and other racist planning practices.

Usually the retort is "c'mon that ended in the 1970s" but massive matters like that have an incredible inertia. No one questions why East Germany is noticeably different than West Germany, one is still living with the legacy of communist USSR.

I don't disagree with any of this other than the term.

I think "racism" should be used only in reference to deliberate race-based actions. I think the word loses its meaning when we apply it too broadly, such as a poverty-based action that happens to have a disparate racial impact; or, alternatively, a historical race-based action that has since been discontinued but may still have echoes felt today. I'll explain in greater detail why I feel this way when I get to a computer.

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't disagree with any of this other than the term.

I think "racism" should be used only in reference to deliberate race-based actions. I think the word loses its meaning when we apply it too broadly, such as a poverty-based action that happens to have a disparate racial impact; or, alternatively, a historical race-based action that has since been discontinued but may still have echoes felt today. I'll explain in greater detail why I feel this way when I get to a computer.

Bruh..... they were deliberate actions or deliberate in-actions which are essentially the same based on motivations. Not sure why its not sinking in. In this article below, I worked specifically in this area on the project they are talking about. I saw exactly what is described. I have reviewed historical documents and accounts of decisions made in the past by local, state and federal governments. I have physically collected samples and investigated the properties of the people. I interviewed residents.

https://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/is-pollution-poisoning-charlestons-african-american-and-low-income-communities/Content?oid=5790876

AS BB stated, these things have incredible social inertia. In this instance it started in Reconstruction. This community is on the brink of completely failing becasue they are surrounded by hazardous sites and industry to this day. Many areas are being addressed quickly but those are properties with high ROI potential. These neighborhoods do not have a current high ROI and as such are low priority even though they have similar or same environmental concerns.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Bruh..... they were deliberate actions or deliberate in-actions which are essentially the same based on motivations. Not sure why its not sinking in. In this article below, I worked specifically in this area on the project they are talking about. I saw exactly what is described. I have reviewed historical documents and accounts of decisions made in the past by local, state and federal governments. I have physically collected samples and investigated the properties of the people. I interviewed residents.

https://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/is-pollution-poisoning-charlestons-african-american-and-low-income-communities/Content?oid=5790876

AS BB stated, these things have incredible social inertia. In this instance it started in Reconstruction. This community is on the brink of completely failing becasue they are surrounded by hazardous sites and industry to this day. Many areas are being addressed quickly but those are properties with high ROI potential. These neighborhoods do not have a current high ROI and as such are low priority even though they have similar or same environmental concerns.

I'm going to be a biiiit further back than that. It's not like African sailors came upon American shores and said "This land looks plentiful. We shall settle it, and call it Harlem."