Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

GoIrish41

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I've never seen a cost-cutting initiative that includes the elimination of math, science, social studies, or English. Cuts are almost always aimed at hockey and football first, music second, art third, and other sports last.

Depends how deep the cuts are, I guess. Our last governor in PA got voted out largely because he cut education funding too much. I don't know of a single team who cut the football or basketball programs, but shop, art, music, etc. were hacked away mercilessly.
 

woolybug25

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The Democrat's Guide to Talking Politics with Your Republican Uncle

This is not a parody. The DNC has literally published a talking points article that they want you to memorize to argue with your Republican relatives at Thanksgiving dinner.

I guess I don't see the problem? Isn't any party's committee charged with creating platform points? Thanksgiving is a common moment in a person's year to discuss politics with relatives. So if anything, I see it as a pretty good way to get information to people interested in gathering talking points. God forbid people just use baseless, uninformed opinions for their discussions. So they can have civil debate instead of heated arguments based in poor information.

Ironic that conservatives would see this as poor way to get a platform to it's followers.

Republicans... losing the war on messaging since... well... forever?
 
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phgreek

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Why do you believe Putin's response forces Obama's hand?

Well, I suspect it will have to do with Turkey being NATO, and Russia's retaliation. Who else gets right of first refusal to lead and define NATO's response? All eyes will go to Mr. Obama. Will he step back, or will he lead the response?
 

woolybug25

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Well, I suspect it will have to do with Turkey being NATO, and Russia's retaliation. Who else gets right of first refusal to lead and define NATO's response? All eyes will go to Mr. Obama. Will he step back, or will he lead the response?

Have you formed opinions yet on how either option could be looked at as the wrong move yet? ;)
 

Grahambo

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Nobody's hand will be forced. The narrative being spun isn't always the true narrative.
 

EddytoNow

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I've never seen a cost-cutting initiative that includes the elimination of math, science, social studies, or English. Cuts are almost always aimed at hockey and football first, music second, art third, and other sports last.

Cuts to academic classes (math, science, social studies, English, foreign language, and reading) are made all the time. Teaching positions are eliminated and more students are crammed into a class or classes are dropped completely creating very generic classes (general math, etc.), so the cuts in these areas aren't as noticeable as the total elimination of a program. I've taught in a public school for 42 years, and the last thing cut is sports. The first thing to go is usually the school counselor, followed closely by the art teacher, or the general music teacher. The marching band and sports (football, basketball, volleyball, etc.) won't be touched because their support base is too large and most administrators cave in pretty quickly to any controversy that might appear in the local newspaper or on the TV news. Cut the football program or the marching band and a hundred or two hundred angry parents will be at the next school board meeting. Cut a couple of English or math classes, lay-off 10-15 teachers, or end the counseling program and the public by-and-large remains silent. If you've got a school leader willing to cut sports to save an academic program or two, you have a leader that cannot be found in most school districts.
 

GoIrish41

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Well, I suspect it will have to do with Turkey being NATO, and Russia's retaliation. Who else gets right of first refusal to lead and define NATO's response? All eyes will go to Mr. Obama. Will he step back, or will he lead the response?

The US has veto power on the security council along with China, France, UK and .... Russia. Without all of those countries signing off on any actions taken, it would be highly unlikely that they would gain approval.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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...by bringing up federal failures to retort a comment I made regarding a state level election...no shiny thing there at all...RME.

Your comment was equal parts a swipe at Democrats and state spending. Don't act like it wasn't.

I answered it in one sentence. I very well could have brought up the troubling fiscal situation in Louisiana, Kansas, New Jersey, etc--all lead by Republicans who can't govern--but that wasn't worth the effort for a comment so blindly partisan.

I think War is one of the few things where that is forgivable. It places national security where it belongs. If you do risk management this is one of those deals where nothing else matters until you address this...so yea.

Go ahead and calculate all of the budget deficits at the state level and compare them to the $4-6 trillion Bush wasted marching around in Iraq and see what figure is bigger. It is not forgivable. A bad decision is a bad decision. The Iraq War had nothing to do with national security.

Hindsight is awesome...bad intel, bad decision...but not nearly what you would like to make it out to be. Many Dems were on board based on the same intel, and some had the ability to determine the veracity of the intel w/o taking the president's word for it. It wasn't a partisan lie...it was bad intel

Hindsight?! The Sanders quote was during the build up to the war and the Cheney clip was from like 1994.

The Neoconservatives fucked up big time, George HW Bush has basically said so in his new book. Your inability to admit it is weird. I supported the war for years. I learned how awful the decision making was and am cognizant of it. I don't make excuses for people who fuck up at that level.


...as a city or State you either set a budget and stay within it or you do not...as relates to weakening the country...meh, its debateable depending on how you define weaken. 300 Mill to Detroit did not threaten to shut the nation down, but it didn't help.

Uh huh. Again, go add up all of the awful management of cities and states and compare it to the trillions Bush wasted and come back to me.

your shell dude...I took the time to chase the Federal Shiny thing you put forth in retort to my State level observation/prediction. As I said if I turn out to be wrong, I'll admit it.

You are retreating faster than the Polish in 1939.
 

wizards8507

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b122f84f141dc28efa7b59b6423873ee.jpg
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Ah yes I hate when the IRS comes to my door with weapons and plunders my livelihood.

I really think memes like that do libertarianism a disservice.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Any time their feelings are hurt, they are the victims! Anyone who dares challenge them and, thus, makes them “feel bad” about themselves, is a “hater,” a “bigot,” an “oppressor,” and a “victimizer.”

Uh huh. I don't have much patience for the religious right that would simultaneously complain about stuff like this when they are in full-blown "There's a War on Christmas!" mode four months out of the year. Where was this President's complaint (read: PR move) when Starbucks changed their cup design?
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Uh huh. I don't have much patience for the religious right that would simultaneously complain about stuff like this when they are in full-blown "There's a War on Christmas!" mode four months out of the year. Where was this President's complaint (read: PR move) when Starbucks changed their cup design?

I get where you're coming from, but let's keep this in mind: the people who don't like the religious aspect of Christmas are often the ones crying about how "offended" they are by a manger scene.
 
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Buster Bluth

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I get where you're coming from, but let's keep this in mind: the people who don't like the religious aspect of Christmas are often the ones crying about how "offended" they are by a manger scene.

Not offended but am definitely annoyed by religious scenes on public property. For instance I was in the municipal building of Northwood, OH the other day and saw a large crucifix on the door of their Zoning office. I don't think that's appropriate.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Not offended but am definitely annoyed by religious scenes on public property. For instance I was in the municipal building of Northwood, OH the other day and saw a large crucifix on the door of their Zoning office. I don't think that's appropriate.

^This
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Not offended but am definitely annoyed by religious scenes on public property. For instance I was in the municipal building of Northwood, OH the other day and saw a large crucifix on the door of their Zoning office. I don't think that's appropriate.

Local battle. You may not find it appropriate, but it sounds like that's what the citizens of Northwood want. Similarly, I wouldn't be shocked if the citizens of other cities ban them completely.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Local battle. You may not find it appropriate, but it sounds like that's what the citizens of Northwood want. Similarly, I wouldn't be shocked if the citizens of other cities ban them completely.

How is that a local battle? Public buildings shouldn't display endorsements of a particular religion.
 

NDgradstudent

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Uh huh. I don't have much patience for the religious right that would simultaneously complain about stuff like this when they are in full-blown "There's a War on Christmas!" mode four months out of the year. Where was this President's complaint (read: PR move) when Starbucks changed their cup design?

There is a considerable difference between (1) demanding that some person/group of people be fired (or indirectly fired through the use of quotas); personally threatening a student/faculty member for voicing an opinion; disrupting a library and threatening white students and (2) putting a Christmas tree in the town hall; saying 'Merry Christmas' instead of something generic and 'inoffensive'; complaining about coffee cups.

Nobody is fired, or threatened, or physically assaulted as a result of the second set of activities.

How is that a local battle? Public buildings shouldn't display endorsements of a particular religion.

Do you want me to list all the public buildings, including the Supreme Court building, that "endorse" a particular religion?
 

phgreek

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Your comment was equal parts a swipe at Democrats and state spending. Don't act like it wasn't.

It was a swipe at Democrats in state and local leadership...particularly state. I believe neither Republicans nor Democrats can be functional for very long at the Federal level in terms of being sticklers on a budget...although, actually passing one is a pretty good start.

I answered it in one sentence. I very well could have brought up the troubling fiscal situation in Louisiana, Kansas, New Jersey, etc--all lead by Republicans who can't govern--but that wasn't worth the effort for a comment so blindly partisan.

Are the issues related to continued borrowing money to pay outyear commitments, or are they related to attempting to stop that shit? ie are they still drunk fucks, or are they just hung over?

Go ahead and calculate all of the budget deficits at the state level and compare them to the $4-6 trillion Bush wasted marching around in Iraq and see what figure is bigger. It is not forgivable. A bad decision is a bad decision. The Iraq War had nothing to do with national security.


Totally not applicable to anything I was attempting to comment on or predict...this is your axe to grind with Bush that was not related to my initial comment...albeit a creative way to do so...and again, I'll still play...The Iraq war was about national security in a larger sense. In post 9/11 world, being a defiant dictator with a history of using chemical warfare, and rhetoric talking about WMDs...that should get you killed. Then, now, and in the future. How the war was prosecuted...I'm sure there are tons of really good criticisms...


Hindsight?! The Sanders quote was during the build up to the war and the Cheney clip was from like 1994.

The Neoconservatives fucked up big time, George HW Bush has basically said so in his new book. Your inability to admit it is weird. I supported the war for years. I learned how awful the decision making was and am cognizant of it. I don't make excuses for people who fuck up at that level.

I was talking about the mechanisms that caused us to be in Iraq with W. I did read HIS book. Hadn't read HWs. W basically said, Bad intel, just post 9/11, Defiant Dictator with WMD rhetoric...I have no problem saying I'd have likely done the same thing...questioning that without the perspective of the moment is indeed hindsight, and everything else is meh


Uh huh. Again, go add up all of the awful management of cities and states and compare it to the trillions Bush wasted and come back to me.

...And again this has nothing to do with my original statement, and I never intimated any such comparison. Again, since you put it out there, All wars "waste" money...but in the world of managing risk, many times the things you would have spent the money on matter little if you fail to protect the homeland. You can do all the dismissive hand waving you want, but in the time and place W. stood, with the info he had, I believe he thought he was protecting this country by striking Iraq, and I probably would have done something similar.


You are retreating faster than the Polish in 1939.

Not sure how...I think Democrat policies in states and cities tend to COST money and tend to create obligations that are not sustainable...ie they make budgets secondary to operations or operational goals...In places where a balanced budget is not the law, they will have problems when Democrats take over, and when Republicans try to restore discipline. Why any of that should be compared to Federal anything I don't know. I think by bringing up the Iraq war, and Federal issues, the problem seems minor by the numbers????

Buster did you use the "how to talk to your conservative uncle" talking points at the dinner table and get banished to your room...why would you be doing this on thanksgiving?
 

GreenSox04

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Cough bump

What's goin on fellas,

I'm currently in the middle of a project for a class that deals with public politics over the Internet and was looking for some help and i figured this would be a great place to start.

I'm looking for a few examples here on the message board where spirited, thorough debate has taken place between users, preferably between users with contrasting political ideologies. I figured someone could provide an example they could recall of an exchange or exchanges that they've had with someone, instead of sifting through this forum page by page.

Vbucks and Reps up for grabs.

Note: you're not doing the assignment for me, rather providing me an example to use as a foundation.

Thanks in advance.
 

GoIrish41

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Cough bump

What's goin on fellas,

I'm currently in the middle of a project for a class that deals with public politics over the Internet and was looking for some help and i figured this would be a great place to start.

I'm looking for a few examples here on the message board where spirited, thorough debate has taken place between users, preferably between users with contrasting political ideologies. I figured someone could provide an example they could recall of an exchange or exchanges that they've had with someone, instead of sifting through this forum page by page.

Vbucks and Reps up for grabs.

Note: you're not doing the assignment for me, rather providing me an example to use as a foundation.

Thanks in advance.

There are tons of examples in this thread. Alas they usually end up degenerating into rash generalizations and name calling. That said, there are some really smart guys who post in here. My advice, scroll back through until you find posts from Whiskey, Buster, Wooly, Redbar, PKT, Cack, TTT, Bluto, Crusader and several others and dig in to see what they were posting about and who they were talking to. You are likely to find some great examples that could help you with your project.
 
C

Cackalacky

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Anything by Whiskeyjack is gold. BusterBluth has some very cogent and intelligent responses. There are some threads on climate change, Ferguson, Redskins Name change, etc all through out the Lep Lounge.
 
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NDgradstudent

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"Mismatch" theory- which holds that affirmative action harms many URMs by putting them in schools for which they are not qualified, may explain some of the recent campus turmoil:

The reality is that most good black and Hispanic students, who would be academically competitive at many selective schools, are not competitive at the more selective schools that they attend.

That’s why it takes very large racial preferences to get them admitted. An inevitable result is that many black and (to a lesser extent) Hispanic students cannot keep up with better-prepared classmates and rank low in their classes no matter how hard they work.

Studies show that this academic “mismatch effect” forces them to drop science and other challenging courses; to move into soft, easily graded, courses disproportionately populated by other preferentially admitted students; and to abandon career hopes such as engineering and pre-med. Many lose intellectual self-confidence and become unhappy even if they avoid flunking out. [...]

Only 1 to 2 percent of black college applicants emerge from high school well-qualified academically for (say) the top Ivy League colleges. Therefore, those schools can meet their racial admissions targets only by using large preferences. They bring in black students who are well qualified for moderately elite schools like (say) the University of North Carolina, but not for the Ivies that recruit them. This leaves schools like UNC able to meet their own racial targets only by giving large preferences to black students who are well qualified for less selective schools like (say) the University of Missouri but not for UNC. And so on down the selectivity scale. [...]

Researchers have shown that racial preference recipients develop negative perceptions of their own academic competence, which in turn harms their performance and even their mental health, through “stereotype threat” and other problems. They may come to see themselves as failures in the eyes of their families, their friends, and themselves.

Such mismatched minority students are understandably baffled and often bitter about why this is happening to them. With most other minority students having similar problems, their personal academic struggles take on a collective, racial cast. [...]

Not many mismatched students complain — even if they figure out — that the root of their problems is that they are not well-qualified to compete with their classmates. The universities, the media, and others do their best to conceal and deny this connection. And it is human nature to seek less humiliating, more sinister explanations.

The grievance-prone college culture offers ready targets for these frustrated students to blame for their plight: wildly exaggerated and sometimes fabricated instances of racism, trivial perceived “microaggressions,” and the very real racial isolation that is largely due to racially preferential admissions — all leading to a supposedly hostile learning environment.

Another common reaction is to withdraw into racial enclaves within the campus. Many universities encourage this by creating black dormitories and even by assigning entering students to them.

Racial, intellectual, economic, social, religious, and political diversity can greatly enrich the educational experience — but not when engineered through large preferences that do more harm than good to their supposed beneficiaries, not to mention to the stronger students who are passed over to make room for racial-preference recipients.

All this goes a long way toward explaining the over-the-top demands now roiling our campuses for still more racial admissions preferences; more preferentially hired, underqualified professors; more grievance-focused courses and university bureaucrats; more university-sponsored racial enclaves; and more apologies for “white privilege.”

The university leaders who cravenly coddle the racial grievance lobby, such as Yale President Peter Salovey and Princeton President Christopher Eisgruber, are only aggravating academic mismatch, racial isolation, and unhappiness among minority students — and degrading their own universities.
 

tussin

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What's goin on fellas,

I'm currently in the middle of a project for a class that deals with public politics over the Internet and was looking for some help and i figured this would be a great place to start.

I'm looking for a few examples here on the message board where spirited, thorough debate has taken place between users, preferably between users with contrasting political ideologies. I figured someone could provide an example they could recall of an exchange or exchanges that they've had with someone, instead of sifting through this forum page by page.

Vbucks and Reps up for grabs.

Note: you're not doing the assignment for me, rather providing me an example to use as a foundation.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/lep...ic-stimulation-now-means-rich-get-richer.html
 
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