Politics

[pkt77242]

Hobby Lobby used to offer the very coverage they have been complaining about.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...bby-lobby-once-provide-birth-control-coverag/

And the issue mattered so much that they sued the government but until they were approached by the legal firm to file the lawsuit they didn't even know they offered it. Obviously it was a super important issue to the Green family. SMDH.

 

[ACamp1900]

Still don't understand how people are so upset that others must buy their own pills... I know we 'live in a society' and all that happy jazz... But a part of that is people taking care of their own affairs without expecting... Just me.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Still don't understand how people are so upset that others must buy their own pills... I know we 'live in a society' and all that happy jazz... But a part of that is people taking care of their own affairs without expecting... Just me.

I've got a laundry list of "necessities" I'd like others to pay for. Just waiting for the right timing in this "fundamental transformation" of the country.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I have no interest in letting LLCs have religious values. That is what this is about. Nothing more.



I didn't conflate anything. I used one as an absurd example and one as a realistic example. You're playing the "persecuted christian" card at every opportunity.



Is he morally culpable when his tax dollars start wars? Matthew 5:43-44 spells out Jesus' thoughts on that. Where are you screaming about culpability then?

YOU can be faithful to your belief. The society's mandate for minimum health care has nothing to do with that. YOU don't have to use the pills. YOU aren't culpable whatsoever.

You haven't once asked me if I thought business should be able to not offer contraceptives, nor have I stated it. I think that decision should be entirely up to the business, and not the government. I am in favor of universal catastrophic care, but I don't think the government should be in the business of forcing companies to offer health care packages that contain any extra care like Viagra, the pill, etc.

I am simply 1000000% against granting religious rights to a piece of paper. Next time I'm at mass (and that won't be until Christmas as not to upset the family too much) I don't expect to be sitting between Arby's and NAPA Auto Parts in the pews. That won't ever happen. That piece of paper won't ever be in line behind me at confession, or be damned to an eternity in hell. It doesn't have a soul, and it cannot have religious views.

Not a persecuted Christian, I didn't compare anything you've said to my beheading

And I disagree with you 10000% as stated in the previous 3-4 pages of posts. You can admit you don't agree but your rehashing the same points that have been made. You believe a "piece of paper", aka - business or corporation is a nebulous idea, it's something not consisting of it's pieces but is only a word and it's not allowed to be thought of in it's whole context. I believe that people, who build these businesses are the business. I believe it is they who must pay or not pay, who must do or not do what the government tells them because they own the business.

This is an effort to push any religious business owner out of the business sector if they are unwilling to comply with federally mandated funding of abortifacients.

You can be religious. You can own a business. You can not own a business and continue to be religious because you must pay for things you find wholly evil.

 

[pkt77242]

Not a persecuted Christian, I didn't compare anything you've said to my beheading

And I disagree with you 10000% as stated in the previous 3-4 pages of posts. You can admit you don't agree but your rehashing the same points that have been made. You believe a "piece of paper", aka - business or corporation is a nebulous idea, it's something not consisting of it's pieces but is only a word and it's not allowed to be thought of in it's whole context. I believe that people, who build these businesses are the business. I believe it is they who must pay or not pay, who must do or not do what the government tells them because they own the business.

This is an effort to push any religious business owner out of the business sector if they are unwilling to comply with federally mandated funding of abortifacients.

You can be religious. You can own a business. You can not own a business and continue to be religious because you must pay for things you find wholly evil.

I can understand where you are coming from but where does it stop by that logic. A Buddhist U.S. citizen likes being a US Citizen but doesn't want to fund wars because it goes against their sincerely held religious belief, should they have to stop being a US citizen and move to another country (maybe Luxemburg or Switzerland?, well maybe no country would really work). What about a Mormon who sincerely held religious belief is that they should be able to have multiple wives? Why should they be forced to stop this practice if it is a sincerely held religious belief? Why should they have to sacrifice something important to them to be U.S. Citizens? What about Muslims and Sharia Law? Where is the line drawn and if we approve this Christian opting out of the law but deny the others, then is the Supreme Court establishing a religion for the U.S. by recognizing one but not the others?

My worry (and many people's worry) isn't just with this case, but with the precedent that it sets, and what else can be opted out of in the future? What other laws will corporations want to opt out of based on religious reasons, what laws will individuals challenge in courts over sincerely held religious views.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Oh this is good. And no, the poll was not taken by yours truly at a tea party convention haha. America is slowly waking up.

Poll Ranks Obama as Worst President Since WWII | RealClearPolitics

 

[pkt77242]

Alright I've perused this thread a bit over the last day and this is pissing me off. This issue is getting way off topic and the discussion is all hypothetical instead of grounded in the rule of law in which the case was decided.

The only thing this ruling is doing is telling HHS that they wrote a shitty rule. It wasn't the least restrictive means of distributing contraceptives to employees (a compelling government interest). Therefore the rule is stricken and it goes back to HHS so they can rewrite it in a way that doesn't infringe upon a closely held corporation's conscientious objections to paying for that contraception.

- No one is getting denied anything.
- Hobby Lobby just objected to paying for 4 abortifacients.
- Women who want them and refuse to change employers will be able to get them once HHS rewrites the rule.

How quickly your post becomes outdated. The Supreme Court has already expanded it to all 20 contraceptives and told appeals courts to reconsider cases where companies want to not cover any of the 20.

 

[Rack Em]

How quickly your post becomes outdated. The Supreme Court has already expanded it to all 20 contraceptives and told appeals courts to reconsider cases where companies want to not cover any of the 20.

Doesn't change the fact that the administration can still impose it in a different way. Make the government provide the twenty, not the businesses. It's still not the least restrictive means as it stands.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

How quickly your post becomes outdated. The Supreme Court has already expanded it to all 20 contraceptives and told appeals courts to reconsider cases where companies want to not cover any of the 20.

What is the defining characteristic behind the 20 contraceptives that are no longer required to be paid for by employers in insurance premiums? I haven't looked, this is a genuine question.

 

[irishog77]

Does Obama still pay for me to pull out?!?!??

 

[Rack Em]

Does Obama still pay for me to pull out?!?!??

No he makes your employer do that

 

[RDU Irish]

EXACTLY! Why would the government force you to pay for anything ever? Doesn't anyone else see how perverted it is that we just ACCEPT the notion that our overlords can force us to do shit unless we provide a Ph.D caliber legal argument about why they shouldn't?

Can we delete this whole thread and leave only this comment behind?

 

[Corry]

What is the defining characteristic behind the 20 contraceptives that are no longer required to be paid for by employers in insurance premiums? I haven't looked, this is a genuine question.

"National Review has provided a list of all of the drugs and procedures that Hobby Lobby employees can still take advantage of free of charge — including oral birth control:


Male condoms
Female condoms
Diaphragms with spermicide
Sponges with spermicide
Cervical caps with spermicide
Spermicide alone
Birth-control pills with estrogen and progestin (“Combined Pill)
Birth-control pills with progestin alone (“The Mini Pill)
Birth control pills (extended/continuous use)
Contraceptive patches
Contraceptive rings
Progestin injections
Implantable rods
Vasectomies
Female sterilization surgeries
Female sterilization implants

There were four types of birth control at the center of Hobby Lobby’s contentions, though: Plan B, which is also known as the “morning after pill,” Ella, another emergency contraceptive, Copper Intrauterine Device and IUD with progestin — forms of birth control that some believe can cause or are akin to abortion."

Is Hobby Lobby Really Banning Birth Control and Preventing Its Workers From ‘Being Able to Make Their Own Health Care Decisions’? | TheBlaze.com

So I may be way off base here, but it seems that the original ruling was that the latter four were included, but now all 20 are included. I can at least understand the argument for not wanting to terminate a pregnancy. Not that I agree with, but I understand it. Preventing a pregnancy though is something else completely IMO.

 

[Rack Em]

Spermicide

My barber uses that to clean the comb he uses to cut my hair!

 

[pkt77242]

What is the defining characteristic behind the 20 contraceptives that are no longer required to be paid for by employers in insurance premiums? I haven't looked, this is a genuine question.

I can't find a complete list but it is all FDA approved contraceptives including oral birth control such as the pill, inter uterine devices and barriers.

Actually I found something from planned parenthood

birth control pills
vaginal rings
the patch
the shot (Depo)
implants
IUDs
female sterilization (plans are not required to cover vasectomies, but some might)
diaphragms
emergency contraception (aka the morning-after pill) if prescribed
spermicides if prescribed
sponges if prescribed

 

[ACamp1900]

I am seriously missing something here unless the point is using this as a political football... or maybe my understanding is off because I have lived in a fairly urban area my entire life,... but at least a handful or so of that list is free at just about any local health clinic anyway…

 

[irishog77]

My barber uses that to clean the comb he uses to cut my hair!

He uses a comb on your head...so he uses a Flowbee on your pubes?

 

[Rack Em]

I am seriously missing something here unless the point is using this as a political football... or maybe my understanding is off because I have lived in a fairly urban area my entire life,... but at least a handful or so of that list is free at just about any local health clinic anyway…

No you're correct.

 

[Rack Em]

He uses a comb on your head...so he uses a Flowbee on your pubes?

Doesn't yours?

 

[irishog77]

Doesn't yours?

I have a Vietnamese chick give me Brazilian waxes. Anything less would be uncivilized.

 

[irishog77]

I am seriously missing something here unless the point is using this as a political football... or maybe my understanding is off because I have lived in a fairly urban area my entire life,... but at least a handful or so of that list is free at just about any local health clinic anyway…

Yeah and make sure you don't mention that HHS themselves admitted that a nonprofit corporation can be a “person” under RFRA and the HHS' position was that a nonprofit corporation could exercise religion, thus simply making a corporation's "profit" the deciding factor.

 

[Irish#1]

I can't find a complete list but it is all FDA approved contraceptives including oral birth control such as the pill, inter uterine devices and barriers.

Actually I found something from planned parenthood

birth control pills
vaginal rings
the patch
the shot (Depo)
implants
IUDs
female sterilization (plans are not required to cover vasectomies, but some might)
diaphragms
emergency contraception (aka the morning-after pill) if prescribed
spermicides if prescribed
sponges if prescribed
swallow

FIFY

 

[Cackalacky]

I think Hobby Lobby should stop importing its cheap ass crap from the largest pro-abortion country in the world. That would really say something, but that would really hurt their profits right? Not like a handful of drug types.... LOL. So stupid....


If people would just do what I do and keep a bucket next to the bed and master pulling out all of this would be unnecessary...

 

[Emcee77]

I think Hobby Lobby should stop importing its cheap ass crap from the largest pro-abortion country in the world. That would really say something, but that would really hurt their profits right? Not like a handful of drug types.... LOL. So stupid....


If people would just do what I do and keep a bucket next to the bed and master pulling out all of this would be unnecessary...

POST

OF

THE YEAR

 

[pkt77242]

So either our Supreme Court lied during their ruling or they changed their mind damn fast. In their ruling they talked about how the work around solution for providing contraceptive coverage for non-profit religious organizations was a good example of how to get coverage for employees without forcing employers to violate their sincerely held religious views and now they went and blocked the government from enforcing that rule on Wheaton College.

So a couple of days ago it was a great idea and now it is a big pile of turd shit. Very consistent.

 

[irishff1014]

I think Hobby Lobby should stop importing its cheap ass crap from the largest pro-abortion country in the world. That would really say something, but that would really hurt their profits right? Not like a handful of drug types.... LOL. So stupid....


If people would just do what I do and keep a bucket next to the bed and master pulling out all of this would be unnecessary...

HAHAHA

 

[ACamp1900]

So either our Supreme Court lied during their ruling or they changed their mind damn fast. In their ruling they talked about how the work around solution for providing contraceptive coverage for non-profit religious organizations was a good example of how to get coverage for employees without forcing employers to violate their sincerely held religious views and now they went and blocked the government from enforcing that rule on Wheaton College.

So a couple of days ago it was a great idea and now it is a big pile of turd shit. Very consistent.

When it comes to our gov.... yeah, it's pretty consistent.

 

[Irish#1]

I think Hobby Lobby should stop importing its cheap ass crap from the largest pro-abortion country in the world. That would really say something, but that would really hurt their profits right? Not like a handful of drug types.... LOL. So stupid....


If people would just do what I do and keep a bucket next to the bed and master pulling out all of this would be unnecessary...

Rumor has it, it's really a thimble. lol

Just messin' with ya Cacky

 

[pkt77242]

I think Hobby Lobby should stop importing its cheap ass crap from the largest pro-abortion country in the world. That would really say something, but that would really hurt their profits right? Not like a handful of drug types.... LOL. So stupid....


If people would just do what I do and keep a bucket next to the bed and masturbate, all of this would be unnecessary...

FIFY

 

[Cackalacky]

That is a sin brother.