Politics

[Ndaccountant]

As of yesterday both are cheaper. There will be some trade offs (personal tax write offs etc.) that I need to evaluate and my company has not released their plan yet until the open enrollment period begins so I need to compare.

For your case, I hope it works out.

For me personally, the plans would be a drastic increase in out of pocket costs.

 

[GoIrish41]

There is a calculator to figure out costs at the bottom of the article here: Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Not sure how accurate it is, but it also has an explanation of the bronze, silver, gold levels of coverage as well.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

For your case, I hope it works out.

For me personally, the plans would be a drastic increase in out of pocket costs.

The good news is that this means you're probably healthy or young (or both).

 

[Cackalacky]

You misunderstand. It will be more expensive for the same demographic. Everyone not old and overweight, etc., will be paying for the others that are.

I can understand that point of view, but I don't think it will be to an extreme level.That is not a argument I agree with though. I always think helping people is a good thing. Plus earlier preventative care and access to doctor's will reduce the need for future visits due to poor health (This is well documented). This act is a step in the right direction.

 

[Cackalacky]

The good news is that this means you're probably healthy or young (or both).

Yes. I am fairly of both too. I think there may be differences between the states as well.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Not enough of them. That's the point. They don't get to hijack the whole government to get their way ... not without consequences. Too bad they are taking down their whole party with them. I'm obviously not a republican, but a strong republican party is good for this country. It provides balance. What these dopes are accomplishing is making the Democrats even stronger, and they are going to upset the balance toward more and more liberal policies. It is astonishing that they are so dug in on what is likely to be just the first of many laws that they can't stomach. It's a marathon not a sprint, and these guys are gassed in the first mile. I'm frankly surprised that they still have support with anyone in this country.

I have the same thought every time Pelosi and Reid speak in public.

 

[ACamp1900]

I have the same thought every time Pelosi and Reid speak in public.

This

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I can understand that point of view, but I don't think it will be to an extreme level.That is not a argument I agree with though. I always think helping people is a good thing. Plus earlier preventative care and access to doctor's will reduce the need for future visits due to poor health (This is well documented). This act is a step in the right direction.

It's not about whether the Act is good or bad -- this is just an actuarial perspective. The usual underwriting of health plans has a cost curve of about, say, 45 degrees in terms of Age (x axis) versus Cost (y axis). Obamacare flattens it to about to, say, a 33 degree slope.

So old win, young lose. While it's perfectly ok to like the law itself, you can't really "disagree" with the math. It's not a "point of view".

 

[Ndaccountant]

This. All of it.

There were actually 1.5 million more votes cast for democrats in congressional elections in 2012. And they kept the Senate. And they kept the White House. Where's the mandate to repeal again?

The fact of the matter is that both parties have acted like giant turd sandwiches since the turn of the century. People were butt hurt over Bush v Gore, people couldn't stand Bush (for some justified reasons, some not so justified), people were pissed off on how the Dem's basically weaseled the ACA, reaction to the ACA spawned the Tea Party and ever since both sides generally refuse to work with the other.

As far as I am concerned, the Dems forced the ACA up the *** of every American without bi-partisan support. Think about that. The biggest expansion of government programs in over 30 years was done on a parliamentary procedure. If the shoe was on the other foot, I am sure Dems would react the same way. This all could have been avoided many different times but the last 14 years of bad blood has poisoned the well.

By the way, I do find it ironic that President is talking about the calamity of not raising the debt ceiling, chose to vote against raising the debt for political reasons while in the Senate. Also, the President either doesn't know history or is intentionally misleading the public when he says the debt ceiling "hostage" taking is unprecedented.

Obama’s claim that non-budget items have ‘never’ been attached to the debt ceiling

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Of course Late Night had a field day:

We've got the government shutdown, but the beginning of Obamacare. You know what that means? You can now complain to your doctor about the government making you sick. -Jay Leno

How many are worried about a government shutdown? How many are more worried about it starting back up? -Jay Leno

I'm glad the government has shut down. Think about it, for the first time in years it's safe to talk on the phone and send emails without anybody listening in. -Jay Leno

Almost a million non-essential government employees were let go. Well, isn't that the problem, that there's that many non-essential employees? -David Letterman

Even the NSA is out of business. And while they're closed, while the government is shut down, they are asking citizens to please spy on each other. -David Letterman

After Congress failed to reach an agreement on a new spending bill, the federal government officially shut down. So roads won't get fixed, public employees won't be able to help you, and getting a federal loan for a house will be very difficult -- but there will also be a lot of differences. -Jimmy Fallon

This whole government shutdown thing comes down to who will blink first. Well, we know it won't be Nancy Pelosi. We know that for sure because she hasn't blinked since the last shutdown. -Jay Leno

If the government does shut down, nonessential White House employees will be sent home without pay -- so more bad news for Joe Biden. -Jay Leno

Since 1976 there have been 17 government shutdowns. The longest was during the four years that Jimmy Carter was president. -Jay Leno

Even if the government shuts down, Americans don't care. The last time Americans cared about anything was when they shut down the Twinkie factory. -David Letterman

All non-essential employees were sent home -- including President Obama's economic team. -Jay Leno

You can see the effects of the shutdown all over town. President Obama is now down to just one teleprompter. -Jay Leno

People have events in the national parks and they're canceled because of the shutdown. There was a KKK rally scheduled to be held in a national park that was canceled. This was bad news for the KKK but good news for the park's black bears. -Conan O'Brien

A lot of Republicans are hoping Democrats will eventually give in. I'm not so sure. If you're waiting for Nancy Pelosi to blink, it may be awhile. I don't know if it's technically possible. -Craig Ferguson

A CNN poll showed that the Congress approval rating is down to 10 percent. That still doesn't seem low enough. Do one out of 10 people really approve of the job Congress is doing? And who are these people? I want to work for them. -Jimmy Kimmel

Because the government doesn't have any money, NASA had to close a Twitter account that warns the public about asteroids. So if you're someone who constantly checks Twitter to see if an asteroid's coming -- would an asteroid really make your life any worse? -Jimmy Fallon

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Our president said earlier this week that health care is now a right in this country with ACA in effect.

So if person A can't get the quality of care they need or the timeliness of this "right", to whom do they take their complaint as an entitled citizen?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Our president said earlier this week that health care is now a right in this country with ACA in effect.

So if person A can't get the quality of care they need or the timeliness of this "right", to whom do they take their complaint as an entitled citizen?

Bitching about it on Facebook seems popular these days. I'd start there.

 

[Cackalacky]

It's not about whether the Act is good or bad -- this is just an actuarial perspective. The usual underwriting of health plans has a cost curve of about, say, 45 degrees in terms of Age (x axis) versus Cost (y axis). Obamacare flattens it to about to, say, a 33 degree slope.

So old win, young lose. While it's perfectly ok to like the law itself, you can't really "disagree" with the math. It's not a "point of view".

I am not disagreeing with the math (that is not what I meant). If the slope is at a lower angle that means that the cost is increasing at a lower rate compared with age. Am I misinterpreting?

 

[Cackalacky]

Our president said earlier this week that health care is now a right in this country with ACA in effect.

So if person A can't get the quality of care they need or the timeliness of this "right", to whom do they take their complaint as an entitled citizen?

It is and should be.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I am not disagreeing with the math (that is not what I meant). If the slope is at a lower angle that means that the cost is increasing at a lower rate compared with age. Am I misinterpreting?

Correct -- the young/healthy/etc. are paying more so the others can pay less than they would have had to for the same level of coverage. But for simplicity's sake I didn't mention that the entire curve shifts upward, so on a pure dollars basis everyone pays more than before, not accoutning for taxes and subsidies, because everyone's plan is more expensive, actuarially. But you're right that because you start out paying more when you're young, the increases won't be as large, as a percentage of your previous premium, as time goes by.

 

[ACamp1900]

It is and should be.

You can't have a *right* to someone else's labor. Rights of the individual do not require any action on the part of another individual. Rights are also timeless. Whatever rights a human being has today by virtue of being a human being, he or she had at the dawn of time when there was no such thing as healthcare. For you to get healthcare, someone else has to pay for medical school, attend and graduate from medical school, and then actually administer the healthcare. Your rights protect you from others causing you harm. Rights do not require someone to do you favors.

.

I think this points out the purely philosophical divide that is present in this country… I don't see many outcomes that don't invlove real conflict at some point… just my two cents.

 

[Cackalacky]

.

I think this points out the purely philosophical divide that is present in this country… I don't see many outcomes that don't invlove real conflict at some point… just my two cents.

I see that point but as a civilization, (as throughout history) humans have created social contracts. It may not have been written at previous points in history but it is most definitely today. Social contracts change as society changes and continue to do so. Some human groups with other social contracts agreed upon by their people see (in an time of food products, chemical useage, pollution etc) that proper healthcare is a right. To say that a cave man has the "rights" as I do today is silly.

A caveman did not have to worry about eating food contaminated with pesticides and fracking chemicals in his drinking water.

 

[Rizzophil]

Obamacare is written to fail. It will not insure all Americans. There still will be people on Medicaid.

Obamacare was written for government control.

When there are doctor shortages, long wait lines, and rising premiums, liberals will be there to offer more government control less freedom. With more taxes.

 

[ACamp1900]

I see that point but as a civilization, (as throughout history) humans have created social contracts. It may not have been written at previous points in history but it is most definitely today. Social contracts change as society changes and continue to do so. Some human groups with other social contracts agreed upon by their people see (in an time of food products, chemical useage, pollution etc) that proper healthcare is a right. To say that a cave man has the "rights" as I do today is silly.

A caveman did not have to worry about eating food contaminated with pesticides and fracking chemicals in his drinking water.

I would say you are missing the point...

Obamacare is written to fail. It will not insure all Americans. There still will be people on Medicaid.

Obamacare was written for government control.

When there are doctor shortages, long wait lines, and rising premiums, liberals will be there to offer more government control less freedom. With more taxes.

I am an admitted pessismist... but I have felt this way a very long time... honestly, pretty much from the start... all of the major players here have gone on record in the past about back-dooring single payer...

 

[Cackalacky]

I would say you are missing the point...





I am an admitted pessismist... but I have felt this way a very long time... honestly, pretty much from the start... all of the major players here have gone on record in the past about back-dooring single payer...

I don't feel that I am. I know the arguments against it. I am a bit more optimistic about it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

It is and should be.

So to whom does person A take their complaint? And why isn't Congress going to suffer with it like the rest of us? Why are they exempted?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So to whom does person A take their complaint? And why isn't Congress going to suffer with it like the rest of us? Why are they exempted?

Because they aren't.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...d-cruz-says-obama-just-granted-all-congress-/

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Here are a few other lies about the law.

PolitiFact | Top 16 myths about the health care law

 

[BobD]

It just pisses me off that there are enough democrat AND republican votes in the house to pass the CR, but Boehner won't allow them to vote on it. If they didn't have enough votes, I might think the democrats should be bargaining, but there are enough republican votes to pass it, so the blame falls solely on the tea party and Boehner for being a puppet.

The only good thing in all this is that it's hurting the tea party.

 

[connor_in]

 

[Black Irish]

I see that point but as a civilization, (as throughout history) humans have created social contracts. It may not have been written at previous points in history but it is most definitely today. Social contracts change as society changes and continue to do so. Some human groups with other social contracts agreed upon by their people see (in an time of food products, chemical useage, pollution etc) that proper healthcare is a right. To say that a cave man has the "rights" as I do today is silly.

A caveman did not have to worry about eating food contaminated with pesticides and fracking chemicals in his drinking water.

And that has zero to do with whether healthcare is a right or not. Will you feel better about being slowly poisoned if the government is ensuring that someone picks up the tab for your medical care?

 

[connor_in]

Because they aren't.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...d-cruz-says-obama-just-granted-all-congress-/

Just a couple of things about that...

Are all citizens subject to the 70+% compensation from their employer that Congress and their staffs get?

Are all citizens subject to having no future rate increases like Congress and their staffs are?

 

[chicago51]

I don't see why the Republican Party doesn't pass the clean spending bill. It is much closer to the spending levels they want than the levels Obama wants. So they have already won.

Taking the country randsum over a law that past is not governing. If the ACA sucks then the voters are going to vote GOP in 2016 and they can do it then.

All I can say is I hope we don't default on our debt.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I don't see why the Republican Party doesn't pass the clean spending bill. It is much closer to the spending levels they want than the levels Obama wants. So they have already won.

Taking the country randsum over a law that past is not governing. If the ACA sucks then the voters are going to vote GOP in 2016 and they can do it then.

All I can say is I hope we don't default on our debt.

Why? Raising our debt limit doesn't cost anything.

 

[enrico514]

I don't see why the Republican Party doesn't pass the clean spending bill. It is much closer to the spending levels they want than the levels Obama wants. So they have already won.

Taking the country randsum over a law that past is not governing. If the ACA sucks then the voters are going to vote GOP in 2016 and they can do it then.

All I can say is I hope we don't default on our debt.[/QUOTE]

The US will never default on their debt... They will just continue on printing and printing... Screwing the 99.9% along the way!