Politics

[phgreek]

That moment you realize that you are on the fringe...

"Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act; just 25 percent approve of this action."
Poll: Americans not happy about shutdown; more blame GOP - CBS News

so only half the people who polled to dislike ACA are wiling to do something about it.

Of course, with the IRS, NSA, and Justice departments acting as they have...one might not get involved...even if they don't like ACA...

Even ignoring the environment of intimidation...25%, when taken in context of what it takes for people to take action in this country on anything other than entertainment...well, those are actually not good numbers for ACA either.

Odd though that liberals would go so far to frame the opposition to Obama care as the vocal "minority" and that is conduct so totally repulsive...since they wrote the book on vocal minority ground game...

 

[enrico514]

Free for some, not all. Granted, one might have to wait a few weeks for an MRI, broken leg, etc. or to see their family doctor. Just ask our friends in the UK or Canada.

Unless you pay to go to a private clinics you are talking many many months for an MRI in Canada!

 

[Ndaccountant]

If it is happening, people are even dumber than I thought. Absolutely no need to shell out cash for it now. SMH.

lol

My faith in humanity is restored.

"After two days without any word on sign-ups, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Louisiana received some reassuring news Wednesday night: Seven people had signed up for its plan on the marketplace that day."

And those 5 Million people in Cali logging in to check out their options on day one? Errr, not exactly. The actual number is just over 10% of the reported number.

Finally, bloomberg is asking the question we all are.....why no reports from the White House on how many have enrolled?

Show Us the Obamacare Exchange Numbers  - Bloomberg

Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits' - Forbes

California exchange overstated its Web traffic for Obamacare launch - latimes.com

‘A trickle, not a wave:’ What insurers are seeing in Obamacare enrollment

 

[phgreek]

lol

My faith in humanity is restored.

"After two days without any word on sign-ups, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Louisiana received some reassuring news Wednesday night: Seven people had signed up for its plan on the marketplace that day."

And those 5 Million people in Cali logging in to check out their options on day one? Errr, not exactly. The actual number is just over 10% of the reported number.

Finally, bloomberg is asking the question we all are.....why no reports from the White House on how many have enrolled?

Show Us the Obamacare Exchange NumbersÂ* - Bloomberg

Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits' - Forbes

California exchange overstated its Web traffic for Obamacare launch - latimes.com

‘A trickle, not a wave:’ What insurers are seeing in Obamacare enrollment

...soooo, from my experience visiting and trying to go through the registration process, it first appeared the system failed due to transaction load...not just visitors. Not because the idiot messages on the screens said so, but because it was clear the database tanked, but the Web layer remained. To me this is indicative of transaction drag...not tire kickers on the web layer. Now what we hear is the transaction load was not all that big. In short, what kind of crack head is in charge of the infrastructure on this?

 

[IrishLax]

...soooo, from my experience visiting and trying to go through the registration process, it first appeared the system failed due to transaction load...not just visitors. Not because the idiot messages on the screens said so, but because it was clear the database tanked, but the Web layer remained. To me this is indicative of transaction drag...not tire kickers on the web layer. Now what we hear is the transaction load was not all that big. In short, what kind of crack head is in charge of the infrastructure on this?

Don't worry, I'm sure they've got their top guys on it. And by top guys I mean probably some stupid f*cker from Veteran Affairs with an online degree in Information Technology from the University of Somolia, and then they will spend twice the money to hire consultants to do his job for him.

Like I've said, I don't really have any opposition to the ACA in theory, just to the practicality of something this potentially complex being run by people that are largely unmotivated or incompetent. The worst part is I'm dubious that even incremental improvements will be made long term if Republicans are more concerned with getting rid of it then making it work well. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Republicans hope it's a colossal inefficient failure simply to justify their opposition to it. This is the problem with adversarial two-party politics and it will never change... parties have more of a vested interest in making the opposition fail than actively working to benefit society.

 

[irishpat183]

That moment you realize that you are on the fringe...

"Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act; just 25 percent approve of this action."
Poll: Americans not happy about shutdown; more blame GOP - CBS News

so only half the people who polled to dislike ACA are wiling to do something about it.
Of course, with the IRS, NSA, and Justice departments acting as they have...one might not get involved...even if they don't like ACA...

Even ignoring the environment of intimidation...25%, when taken in context of what it takes for people to take action in this country on anything other than entertainment...well, those are actually not good numbers for ACA either.

Odd though that liberals would go so far to frame the opposition to Obama care as the vocal "minority" and that is conduct so totally repulsive...since they wrote the book on vocal minority ground game...

BOOM.


By the way...this shutdown has more to do with the budget than the ACA. Repubs screwed the pooch by focusing on the ACA....Libs are cashing in on that.

If repubs just attacked the budget, they'd probably have alot more Mericans on their side

 

[irishpat183]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Sweet <a href="https://twitter.com/NavyAthletics">@NavyAthletics</a>: <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NavyFootball&src=hash">#NavyFootball</a> game on Saturday against Air Force is a GO. Kickoff 11:30 AM on CBS. No word on the rest of the sports</p>— Mark Schlabach (@Mark_Schlabach) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mark_Schlabach/statuses/385584646962298880">October 3, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Never in question. Scare tatic

 

[Cackalacky]

lol

My faith in humanity is restored.

"After two days without any word on sign-ups, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Louisiana received some reassuring news Wednesday night: Seven people had signed up for its plan on the marketplace that day."

And those 5 Million people in Cali logging in to check out their options on day one? Errr, not exactly. The actual number is just over 10% of the reported number.

Finally, bloomberg is asking the question we all are.....why no reports from the White House on how many have enrolled?

Show Us the Obamacare Exchange NumbersÂ* - Bloomberg

Enrollment In Obamacare's Federal Exchange, So Far, May Only Be In 'Single Digits' - Forbes

California exchange overstated its Web traffic for Obamacare launch - latimes.com

‘A trickle, not a wave:’ What insurers are seeing in Obamacare enrollment

I don't know about most employers and such but mine will not be getting around to discussing our options until our open enrollment period comes near November.

This stuff is a non issue (in my area at least).

From the limited conversations I have had, it seems the others I have talked to are in a similar situation.

 

[Cackalacky]

BOOM.


By the way...this shutdown has more to do with the budget than the ACA. Repubs screwed the pooch by focusing on the ACA....Libs are cashing in on that.

If repubs just attacked the budget, they'd probably have alot more Mericans on their side

They definitely f'ed up tying it to the ACA. This will completely hurt the Republicans.

 

[GoIrish41]

They definitely f'ed up tying it to the ACA. This will completely hurt the Republicans.

Probably also screwed any chances they had at getting traction for a debt ceiling showdown. I don't think they could have handled this any worse. Nearly everyone is blaming the shutdown on the GOP -- even much of the GOP.

 

[Cackalacky]

Probably also screwed any chances they had at getting traction for a debt ceiling showdown. I don't think they could have handled this any worse. Nearly everyone is blaming the shutdown on the GOP -- even much of the GOP.

They should get all of the blame. They engineered it. Their party is being held hostage by a small group of extremists who explicitly said this was their goal starting back in 2010. The video of them leaving their chambers the night of the shutdown was unbelievable. They were celebrating.

 

[GoIrish41]

They should get all of the blame. They engineered it. Their party is being held hostage by a small group of extremists who explicitly said this was their goal starting back in 2010. The video of them leaving their chambers the night of the shutdown was unbelievable. They were celebrating.

Completely agree. The longer this drags out, the worse it is going to be for them. I've heard some suggesting that Boener is letting this drag out so the heat gets turned up on Cruz and the tea bagers because they have been a thorn in his side for the past few years. I'm not sure I completely buy that, but it would be a sneaky smart move on his part. They have ground government to a stop for too long. It's time they got thrown onto the scrap heap of history.

 

[irishpat183]

They should get all of the blame. They engineered it. Their party is being held hostage by a small group of extremists who explicitly said this was their goal starting back in 2010. The video of them leaving their chambers the night of the shutdown was unbelievable. They were celebrating.

WHile you make a fair point....It still goes back to two things:

1. The bill is garbage and never should've been passed in the first place
2. Obama is refusing to talk.


You can say "law is law"....but there are people that were elected to get rid of this government overreach.

IF they get it together and start targeting Obama for his missing budget and go after the budget aspect of the ACA (who's going to pay for it) then I think they can really hurt the left.

Because those are two things that the left DOESN'T want to answer.

 

[irishpat183]

Completely agree. The longer this drags out, the worse it is going to be for them. I've heard some suggesting that Boener is letting this drag out so the heat gets turned up on Cruz and the tea bagers because they have been a thorn in his side for the past few years. I'm not sure I completely buy that, but it would be a sneaky smart move on his part. They have ground government to a stop for too long. It's time they got thrown onto the scrap heap of history.

The worse it gets for ALL OF THEM. The left doesn't have clean hands either.


And the Tea Party got the votes. Like them or not. Hell, people in CA keep electing that moron, Pelosi (whom I can start posting idiotic quotes if you'd like?)

 

[Cackalacky]

Completely agree. The longer this drags out, the worse it is going to be for them. I've heard some suggesting that Boener is letting this drag out so the heat gets turned up on Cruz and the tea bagers because they have been a thorn in his side for the past few years. I'm not sure I completely buy that, but it would be a sneaky smart move on his part. They have ground government to a stop for too long. It's time they got thrown onto the scrap heap of history.

I could see that. Boehner does not seem to me that he is that extreme, he is only having to manage a party with some fairly ridiculous characters in it as well as the expectations of a very vocal base.

Dems can ride this into 2014. In the end though it won't matter because Congress is beholden to their corporate masters.

 

[Cackalacky]

WHile you make a fair point....It still goes back to two things:

1. The bill is garbage and never should've been passed in the first place
2. Obama is refusing to talk.


You can say "law is law"....but there are people that were elected to get rid of this government overreach.

IF they get it together and start targeting Obama for his missing budget and go after the budget aspect of the ACA (who's going to pay for it) then I think they can really hurt the left.

Because those are two things that the left DOESN'T want to answer.

I have a feeling the ACA will be very popular. I checked what I would be available for in the exchanges yesterday. Based on my current employer based insurance, I would save a bunch of money. I am just waiting on my employer to tell me what they are going to do before I decide.

As far as paying for it, that has been decided already has it not? There are discretion ary portions and mandatory portions that Congress must authorize spending. Under its current form

The ACA and its companion reconciliation legislation contain a number of provisions designed to raise revenue
to offset the cost of the health reform law. After the revenue raisers are initiated, the law is estimated to reduce
the federal deficit by $143 billion over the 2010-2019 period and by a trillion dollars over twenty years,
according to CBO.

http://www.acponline.org/advocacy/where_we_stand/assets/i2-how-is-the-aca-funded.pdf

 

[GoIrish41]

WHile you make a fair point....It still goes back to two things:

1. The bill is garbage and never should've been passed in the first place
2. Obama is refusing to talk.


You can say "law is law"....but there are people that were elected to get rid of this government overreach.

IF they get it together and start targeting Obama for his missing budget and go after the budget aspect of the ACA (who's going to pay for it) then I think they can really hurt the left.

Because those are two things that the left DOESN'T want to answer.

Not enough of them. That's the point. They don't get to hijack the whole government to get their way ... not without consequences. Too bad they are taking down their whole party with them. I'm obviously not a republican, but a strong republican party is good for this country. It provides balance. What these dopes are accomplishing is making the Democrats even stronger, and they are going to upset the balance toward more and more liberal policies. It is astonishing that they are so dug in on what is likely to be just the first of many laws that they can't stomach. It's a marathon not a sprint, and these guys are gassed in the first mile. I'm frankly surprised that they still have support with anyone in this country.

 

[EddytoNow]

WHile you make a fair point....It still goes back to two things:

1. The bill is garbage and never should've been passed in the first place
2. Obama is refusing to talk.


You can say "law is law"....but there are people that were elected to get rid of this government overreach.

IF they get it together and start targeting Obama for his missing budget and go after the budget aspect of the ACA (who's going to pay for it) then I think they can really hurt the left.

Because those are two things that the left DOESN'T want to answer.

To suggest that Republican congressmen were elected by the majority of the people to get rid of Obamacare is a real stretch. The congressional districts were gerrymandered following the 2010 election to make sure a majority of Republican congressman would be elected. The opinions of the majority of the populace were irrelevant when the district lines were drawn. Using my own state, Michigan, as an example, there were more total votes cast for Democratic congressional candidates than Republican candidates in the 2012 election, but the number of Republican congressmen from Michigan vastly outnumbers the number of Democratic congressmen. Hardly a reflection of the will of the populace. The game was rigged to such an extent that moderate Republicans are more fearful of losing a primary election than the general election. Their victory in the general election was insured when the district lines were drawn creating a guaranteed majority of Republican representatives with a minority of the popular vote.

Our wishy-washy politicians (in both parties) are now hostage to the most extreme members of their own party. We need a viable third party to represent those of us whose political persuasions lie in the middle and not with the wackos on the right or left.

 

[irishpat183]

To suggest that Republican congressmen were elected by the majority of the people to get rid of Obamacare is a real stretch. The congressional districts were gerrymandered following the 2010 election to make sure a majority of Republican congressman would be elected. The opinions of the majority of the populace were irrelevant when the district lines were drawn. Using my own state, Michigan, as an example, there were more total votes cast for Democratic congressional candidates than Republican candidates in the 2012 election, but the number of Republican congressmen from Michigan vastly outnumbers the number of Democratic congressmen. Hardly a reflection of the will of the populace. The game was rigged to such an extent that moderate Republicans are more fearful of losing a primary election than the general election. Their victory in the general election was insured when the district lines were drawn creating a guaranteed majority of Republican representatives with a minority of the popular vote.

Our wishy-washy politicians (in both parties) are now hostage to the most extreme members of their own party. We need a viable third party to represent those of us whose political persuasions lie in the middle and not with the wackos on the right or left.

It's actually not a stretch....most on the right are not in favor of the ACA. People may be upset with the shutdown..but there are still a majority that don't approve the ACA.

 

[Cackalacky]

Right, if you're overweight, a smoker, an early 20-something that can get on their parents' plan, poor, someone with a pre-existing condition trying to get new coverage, or a health insurer, you generally win.

If you're not in one of those categories you generally lose.

I disagree. I just checked mine and I am none of those. My ACA options are cheaper than my current plan. But what you pointed out was the point of the bill, yes?

 

[phgreek]

WHile you make a fair point....It still goes back to two things:

1. The bill is garbage and never should've been passed in the first place
2. Obama is refusing to talk.


You can say "law is law"....but there are people that were elected to get rid of this government overreach.

IF they get it together and start targeting Obama for his missing budget and go after the budget aspect of the ACA (who's going to pay for it) then I think they can really hurt the left.

Because those are two things that the left DOESN'T want to answer.

AAAAAAAAAAMEN!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The worse it gets for ALL OF THEM. The left doesn't have clean hands either.


And the Tea Party got the votes. Like them or not. Hell, people in CA keep electing that moron, Pelosi (whom I can start posting idiotic quotes if you'd like?)

"Whom I can start posting idiotic quotes" is not grammatically correct.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I disagree. I just checked mine and I am none of those. My ACA options are cheaper than my current plan. But what you pointed out was the point of the bill, yes?

I don't know your exact situation, but over time your coverage options will be more expensive and you'll be paying more taxes.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It's actually not a stretch....most on the right are not in favor of the ACA. People may be upset with the shutdown..but there are still a majority that don't approve the ACA.

And the correct way to change the law isn't to shutdown the government.

If this brazen act of immaturity makes the US default in two or so weeks, the Republican Party will cease to exist. Hell the country might.

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't know your exact situation, but over time your coverage options will be more expensive and you'll be paying more taxes.

That is what healthcare plans do. Especially for someone who gets older. That is our system as it currently functions.

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't know your exact situation, but over time your coverage options will be more expensive and you'll be paying more taxes.

That is generally what has happened every year in my lifetime.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

That is what healthcare plans do. Especially for someone who gets older. That is our system as it currently functions.

You misunderstand. It will be more expensive for the same demographic. Everyone not old and overweight, etc., will be paying for the others that are.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I disagree. I just checked mine and I am none of those. My ACA options are cheaper than my current plan. But what you pointed out was the point of the bill, yes?

Is the premium cheaper, deductible/co pays cheaper, or both?

The issue from what I have been reading is that they intentionally put premiums low with high deductibles and copays to entice buyers and people generally are not taking that into consideration.

 

[Cackalacky]

Is the premium cheaper, deductible/co pays cheaper, or both?

The issue from what I have been reading is that they intentionally put premiums low with high deductibles and copays to entice buyers and people generally are not taking that into consideration.

As of yesterday both are cheaper. There will be some trade offs (personal tax write offs etc.) that I need to evaluate and my company has not released their plan yet until the open enrollment period begins so I need to compare.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

To suggest that Republican congressmen were elected by the majority of the people to get rid of Obamacare is a real stretch. The congressional districts were gerrymandered following the 2010 election to make sure a majority of Republican congressman would be elected. The opinions of the majority of the populace were irrelevant when the district lines were drawn. Using my own state, Michigan, as an example, there were more total votes cast for Democratic congressional candidates than Republican candidates in the 2012 election, but the number of Republican congressmen from Michigan vastly outnumbers the number of Democratic congressmen. Hardly a reflection of the will of the populace. The game was rigged to such an extent that moderate Republicans are more fearful of losing a primary election than the general election. Their victory in the general election was insured when the district lines were drawn creating a guaranteed majority of Republican representatives with a minority of the popular vote.

Our wishy-washy politicians (in both parties) are now hostage to the most extreme members of their own party. We need a viable third party to represent those of us whose political persuasions lie in the middle and not with the wackos on the right or left.

This. All of it.

There were actually 1.5 million more votes cast for democrats in congressional elections in 2012. And they kept the Senate. And they kept the White House. Where's the mandate to repeal again?