Politics

[BobD]

My opinion is backed by facts we know, not biased speculation. Your opinion is backed by nothing but your blind support for yet another government intrusion into 1/6 of the economy.

Our healthcare system is imperfect, but firefighters don't run into a burning building and pour gasoline on it. No one on here hates the poor or wants people dying on the streets. Insinuating such a position because someone disagrees with a program that makes you "feel good" about people who need help is sad. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and we are the most charitable country in the world. Making productive citizens who work, provide for themselves and others through taxes feel like they are not doing enough is garbage. The idea that YOU feel like you need to do more doesn't mean everyone else has to jump in your boat. Others (myself included) give to the poor in other ways, such as charities.

I've never been dirt poor but I can tell you my Dad worked at my Catholic high school for 20 years, and the pay was next to nothing. My mom works in insurance. We were border line middle class.

I stated earlier that obamacare is causing costs to go up even more than they had, and it's true. People are getting letters and new rates for their insurance. Not speculation. Here it is. Again

Rising Premiums Expose Obamacare ‘Bait and Switch’ | The Fiscal Times

I stated it will cause a great doctor shortage. Here it is. Again

Thanks To Obamacare, A 20,000 Doctor Shortage Is Set To Quintuple - Forbes

I stated obamacare is already hurting job growth. Here it is. Again.

Staffing CEO says Obamacare law hurting hiring on Main Street

I stated doctors oppose obamacare because of its ramifications. Here it is. Again.

Why doctors hate ObamaCare | New York Post

My cards are on the table. You let me know which one of these is "biased speculation." Then please show me why I'm wrong on my arguments. You'll also notice none of these are from FoxNews, RedState, Breitbart, or Sarah Palin's blog.

If you can't see that every bit of that is speculation, you're beyond help.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

If you can't see that every bit of that is speculation, you're beyond help.

Still waiting for you or autry or anyone else who agrees with you to take at least one of my arguments and prove me wrong.

 

[BobD]

Still waiting for you or autry or anyone else who agrees with you to take at least one of my arguments and prove me wrong.

Are you serious? If you are, I'm not going to try and explain to you anymore that you haven't proven anything, you've only posted some people's opinions.

Sit down with a friend and review the last few pages. Maybe they will be able to explain it to you.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Are you serious? If you are, I'm not going to try and explain to you anymore that you haven't proven anything, you've only posted some people's opinions.

Sit down with a friend and review the last few pages. Maybe they will be able to explain it to you.

Nothing above is opinion. Each article illustrates what is happening NOW, not what might happen down the road. If it's so crazy and they're all opinion, it should be EASY for you to prove them all wrong and make me look like an idiot. Come on! You've been avoiding this for days. I'm begging you...make me look like a clown.

Still waiting...

 

[BobD]

Nothing above is opinion. Each article illustrates what is happening NOW, not what might happen down the road. If it's so crazy and they're all opinion, it should be EASY for you to prove them all wrong and make me look like an idiot. Come on! You've been avoiding this for days. I'm begging you...make me look like a clown.

Still waiting...

You're doing a good job all by yourself.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You're doing a good job all by yourself.

Come on Bob, this should be a cake walk for you. I'm an idiot just posting opinions. Still waiting...

 

[irishpat183]

The faulty logic in those that blindly support whatever Obama and big brother pass is that government somehow knows better than we do.

That is THE MOST ignorant thinking you can have.


What the **** does our federal government know about health care? What does Obama, Ted Cruz, Clinton, Bush...etc know about helath care?


Again, The ACA is NOT about covering Americans, you're fools to believe that because there are so many things wrong with it and it's implimentation. Its about control. It always has been.

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm so sick of the stupid tea party republican members of Congress and their spoiled brat politics where they blow up the government for everyone because they don't get their way. I'll begin serving my 2nd furlough this year beginning this week. Enough is enough. Hopefully this government shutdown will completely destroy their ridiculous brand and they'll disappear just as fast as they arrived and a government built on compromise will be restored.

 

[DSully1995]

I'm so sick of the stupid tea party republican members of Congress and their spoiled brat politics where they blow up the government for everyone because they don't get their way. I'll begin serving my 2nd furlough this year beginning this week. Enough is enough. Hopefully this government shutdown will completely destroy their ridiculous brand and they'll disappear just as fast as they arrived and a government built on compromise will be restored.

It takes two to tango?

 

[ACamp1900]

Too bad those evil 'hate everything and everyone' republicans weren't more like this guy when it came to compromise...

Obama's no-negotiation stance setting new tone

 

[BobD]

The faulty logic in those that blindly support whatever Obama and big brother pass is that government somehow knows better than we do.

That is THE MOST ignorant thinking you can have.


What the **** does our federal government know about health care? What does Obama, Ted Cruz, Clinton, Bush...etc know about helath care?


Again, The ACA is NOT about covering Americans, you're fools to believe that because there are so many things wrong with it and it's implimentation. Its about control. It always has been.

and your qualifications?

 

[BobD]

Come on Bob, this should be a cake walk for you. I'm an idiot just posting opinions. Still waiting...

Are you for or against the program requiring the government to give money to your employer for allowing you to work there?

 

[yankeehater]

What has everyone's experience been?

My company is owned by a VERY large corporation that provides us with insurance. We started receiving the Obamacare letters a few months ago. We then received a letter with and breakdown of costs on how each employee's insurance would cost the corporation $1000 per month. You could see where this was going.

Low and behold we received an instructional letter on an optional wellness requirement (physical, blood work, questionnaire, etc.), but if you declined to participate your premiums went up $100 per month. The questionnaire was so personal i.e. what you eat, how often you brush your teeth, do you smoke, do you drink, do you drive after you drink?

This was all supposed to confidential through a third party, but we all know our rates will be dependent on the results.

Whether is this a requirement of Obamacare or a corporations way of blaming Obamacare I do not believe is the point. This is what many people feared would be a result. It has now become acceptable for companies, the Government and everyone else to know about your health and personal business.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Are you for or against the program requiring the government to give money to your employer for allowing you to work there?

I am for you taking one of my arguments and using evidence to prove them inaccurate. Three days and counting...

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm so sick of the stupid tea party republican members of Congress and their spoiled brat politics where they blow up the government for everyone because they don't get their way. I'll begin serving my 2nd furlough this year beginning this week. Enough is enough. Hopefully this government shutdown will completely destroy their ridiculous brand and they'll disappear just as fast as they arrived and a government built on compromise will be restored.

Those stupid tea party members were voted in by their constituents with the promise and goal to repeal obamacare. The House also sent a bill to the Senate funding everything except obamacare. Next.

 

[phgreek]

Those stupid tea party members were voted in by their constituents with the promise and goal to repeal obamacare. The House also sent a bill to the Senate funding everything except obamacare. Next.

ya have to ask yourself WHY there is a Tea Party...

Its perfectly acceptable for people who, while completely unable to articulate their goals, gathered to occupy X out of nebulous frustration. They proceeded to Sh!t and **** on the ground...left their garbage everywhere...raped and assaulted one-another, and COST people money everywhere they went...but THAT "movement" had merit, and the Tea Party rallies are offensive in content and conduct...REALLY?

Wanna know what I'm tired of...people with political lobotomies...

...and absolutely the Tea Part reps. actually represent people, and were sent to do the job they are doing...

 

[GoIrish41]

Those stupid tea party members were voted in by their constituents with the promise and goal to repeal obamacare. The House also sent a bill to the Senate funding everything except obamacare. Next.

You can argue all you want about the nobility of what they are doing. They have tried to do what they are doing right now 40 previous times with no success. So, this time they are trying to shut down the entire government unless they get what they want. The House sent a bill to the Senate, knowing with absolute certainty that it would not pass as written because it strips legislation that the Democrats spent decades trying to put in place. They are holding the nation's economy hostage because they made promises that they cannot possibly keep to their constituents who voted them into office. Lets talk about those constituents. Most of these tea baggers are in office because republican controlled state houses drew voting districts to game the system, assuring that they send a perpetual stream of nutjobs in the US House. This shut down, can be the cherry on top of the inept strategy of obstruction that has made this country stagnate for the past few years. Eventually, even the biggest tea party supporter will have to acknowledge that these people are doing damage to the country.

 

[phgreek]

You can argue all you want about the nobility of what they are doing. They have tried to do what they are doing right now 40 previous times with no success. So, this time they are trying to shut down the entire government unless they get what they want. The House sent a bill to the Senate, knowing with absolute certainty that it would not pass as written because it strips legislation that the Democrats spent decades trying to put in place. They are holding the nation's economy hostage because they made promises that they cannot possibly keep to their constituents who voted them into office. Lets talk about those constituents. Most of these tea baggers are in office because republican controlled state houses drew voting districts to game the system, assuring that they send a perpetual stream of nutjobs in the US House. This shut down, can be the cherry on top of the inept strategy of obstruction that has made this country stagnate for the past few years. Eventually, even the biggest tea party supporter will have to acknowledge that these people are doing damage to the country.

Lemme fix this for you...

The House sent a bill to the Senate, knowing with absolute certainty that it would not pass as written because it strips legislation that the Democrats spent decades arm waving about, and 15 minutes slinging it all together to hit a window in time where what more than half the nation had to say could be ignored..

 

[GoIrish41]

ya have to ask yourself WHY there is a Tea Party...

Its perfectly acceptable for people who, while completely unable to articulate their goals, gathered to occupy X out of nebulous frustration. They proceeded to Sh!t and **** on the ground...left their garbage everywhere...raped and assaulted one-another, and COST people money everywhere they went...but THAT "movement" had merit, and the Tea Party rallies are offensive in content and conduct...REALLY?

Wanna know what I'm tired of...people with political lobotomies...

...and absolutely the Tea Part reps. actually represent people, and were sent to do the job they are doing...

Not a single occupy protest took money out of my pocket or food out of the mouths of my family. This year, I've already lost thousands of dollars and depending on how stubborn and stupid these idiots are willing to be, who knows how much more? These people are perfectly willing to push the economy to the brink to get their own way. They engage in a campaign to misinform the public about ACA and how it is going to doom the country, even though the exchanges that are at the heart of the program don't even open until Tuesday. The law hasn't been implemented yet, but they have convinced themselves (hoping against hope that it fails) that failure is the only possible outcome for this law. That is disturbing enough. That this is happening in the open and there are people too blind to see it is perhaps the most disturbing thing of all.

 

[GoIrish41]

Lemme fix this for you...

The House sent a bill to the Senate, knowing with absolute certainty that it would not pass as written because it strips legislation that the Democrats spent decades arm waving about, and 15 minutes slinging it all together to hit a window in time where what more than half the nation had to say could be ignored..

actually, the Rebublicans not only conceived and wrote most of the legislation, they also field tested it in Mass. (read the GOP presidential candidate Romney) to demonstrate that it would work. If the GOP was so rabidly against this idea, why did they propose it as an alternative to what the Clinton's were trying to do pre-Bush II. This whole argument is silly season. IT WAS THERE IDEA. They didn't like it until Obama embraced it. Get over it. It is the law. If you want to change it, offer an alternative that provides health ensurance to the same number of people. Just getting rid of it is a massive step backward for this country.

 

[BobD]

The Republicans and the Tea Party are drowning in there own excrement right now. They are desperate and want to take everyone down with them. I'm so glad to not be part of that shitsquad anymore.

 

[connor_in]

Wow...I only check in on this thread from time to time but when I do I seem to come in right when R's seem to be called horrible, ugly, uncaring people intent on destroying the USA.

Nice.

By the way, how is it the R's shutting down govt when they keep passing legislation to keep funding it but the Senate rejects it refusing ANY compromise with the exact same message coming from the White House? They have adjusted their bill but still to no avail. The only way R's are not evil obstructionists is if they cave on all their principles and ideals and give the D's everything they want with no compromise? How much you want to bet that even if they do, they will still be portrayed as evil, unfeeling, horrible (and surely r a c I s t) people?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You can argue all you want about the nobility of what they are doing. They have tried to do what they are doing right now 40 previous times with no success. So, this time they are trying to shut down the entire government unless they get what they want. The House sent a bill to the Senate, knowing with absolute certainty that it would not pass as written because it strips legislation that the Democrats spent decades trying to put in place. They are holding the nation's economy hostage because they made promises that they cannot possibly keep to their constituents who voted them into office. Lets talk about those constituents. Most of these tea baggers are in office because republican controlled state houses drew voting districts to game the system, assuring that they send a perpetual stream of nutjobs in the US House. This shut down, can be the cherry on top of the inept strategy of obstruction that has made this country stagnate for the past few years. Eventually, even the biggest tea party supporter will have to acknowledge that these people are doing damage to the country.

They're refusing to go down without a fight and are speaking for 52% of the country who want it repealed, compared to 36% who want to keep it as is. If the shoes were flipped you'd be praising the democrats for their willingness to fight for "what's right."

They aren't holding the economy hostage. They're ready to fund everything except this disaster. You can cry all you want about the tea party and their constituents. Fact is liberal progressives are in the MINORITY when it comes to obamacare. And most of the idiots who passed this in 2009 got their @$$es sent home. That's why we are where we are.

 

[GoIrish41]

Wow...I only check in on this thread from time to time but when I do I seem to come in right when R's seem to be called horrible, ugly, uncaring people intent on destroying the USA.

Nice.

By the way, how is it the R's shutting down govt when they keep passing legislation to keep funding it but the Senate rejects it refusing ANY compromise with the exact same message coming from the White House? They have adjusted their bill but still to no avail. The only way R's are not evil obstructionists is if they cave on all their principles and ideals and give the D's everything they want with no compromise? How much you want to bet that even if they do, they will still be portrayed as evil, unfeeling, horrible (and surely r a c I s t) people?

Do you think anyone will thing that they are caving on their principles if they acknowledge that going 0-40 is enough to define this argument as over. What exactly ARE their principles on this topic? That the law is bad and will doom America? That is not principles, its speculation. Instead of all the time, effort and funding that has gone into defeating this law after the fact, perhaps they should offer an alternative that is as or more effective. They don't do that. Is that because of their principles? If so, what should be made of the fact that their principals will result in 30 million people having the opportunity to have health insurance taken from them? I wonder how the Republicans would have reacted under the Bush administration if the Democrats held the economy hostage until the GOP agreed to raise taxes on the 1 percent? I guess we will never know, because the Democrats were never that cavalier about their responsibilities to the whole country, or that crazy to think that they could get what they wanted by taking the economy to the brink with no thought of how it is going to hurt families in this nation.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The Republicans and the Tea Party are drowning in there own excrement right now. They are desperate and want to take everyone down with them. I'm so glad to not be part of that shitsquad anymore.

You're so lucky to be on the other side. God what a blessing to be under the umbrella with "legacy" programs like SS, medicare, medicaid, and obamacare. All leftist entitlement programs that will bankrupt and collapse us. Won't happen tomorrow or next year, but one day not so far off.

 

[GoIrish41]

They're refusing to go down without a fight and are speaking for 52% of the country who want it repealed, compared to 36% who want to keep it as is. If the shoes were flipped you'd be praising the democrats for their willingness to fight for "what's right."

They aren't holding the economy hostage. They're ready to fund everything except this disaster. You can cry all you want about the tea party and their constituents. Fact is liberal progressives are in the MINORITY when it comes to obamacare. And most of the idiots who passed this in 2009 got their @$$es sent home. That's why we are where we are.

and still, the republicans cannot get it overturned -- not in 40 tries. It is the law. The GOP has gone as far as trying to convince young people to break the law by not signing up for insurance on the exchanges. Congressmen? Telling people to break the law? Really? They are desperate and desperate people do desperate things.

The most important polls are the ones that elect our government into office. During the last one, the Senate expanded its number and the President was re-elected by a pretty significant margain. In addition, more voters voted for Democrats in the House than for Republicans, but because of their creative drawing of Congressional districts, more republicans remain in office. You will recall that the "repeal Obamacare" crowd LOST the election, right. The guy who the republicans named the ACA after won. That is a pretty fair indication that the country wanted the law to be enacted. Alas, voters are fickle and suseptible to massive misinformation campaigns aimed at scaring folks as the law's implementation approaches. I am confident that when the law is successful, people will all of the sudden be all for the law. Then, what are all these idiot GOP teabaggers going to talk about?

 

[cody1smith]

I am for you taking one of my arguments and using evidence to prove them inaccurate. Three days and counting...

I'm staying out of this but proving someone else's OPINION wrong? is a pretty tall task

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

and still, the republicans cannot get it overturned -- not in 40 tries. It is the law. The GOP has gone as far as trying to convince young people to break the law by not signing up for insurance on the exchanges. Congressmen? Telling people to break the law? Really? They are desperate and desperate people do desperate things.

The most important polls are the ones that elect our government into office. During the last one, the Senate expanded its number and the President was re-elected by a pretty significant margain. In addition, more voters voted for Democrats in the House than for Republicans, but because of their creative drawing of Congressional districts, more republicans remain in office. You will recall that the "repeal Obamacare" crowd LOST the election, right. The guy who the republicans named the ACA after won. That is a pretty fair indication that the country wanted the law to be enacted. Alas, voters are fickle and suseptible to massive misinformation campaigns aimed at scaring folks as the law's implementation approaches. I am confident that when the law is successful, people will all of the sudden be all for the law. Then, what are all these idiot GOP teabaggers going to talk about?

It is the law, for now. Guess what else is? All spending bills originate in the House. I think I qualify as young at 28. I'd like Congress to participate in obamacare, I'd like zero exemptions across the board, and I'd also like all my SS money back that has been taken out of my taxes since 1999 when I started working. Lord knows I'll never see a SS check.

A fair indication that the country wanted the law to be enacted? Not hardly. The country re-elected by VERY SLIM margin because they weren't convinced Romney had a better economic plan than Obama. Electoral college is garbage. Look at the votes tallied.

If the law remains and IS "successful", depending on how you define it, I will come on here and eat crow. I'm a man of my word. I'll call myself a backwards, knuckle dragging conservative and you can say, "Told ya so."

And if it fails either in practice or in simple economics, the left wing in this country will 100% have to OWN IT. And where will you be when that happens?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm staying out of this but proving someone else's OPINION wrong? is a pretty tall task

Shouldn't be. Bob claims all my arguments are opinion, which they are not. They are facts. So one would think it'd be an easy walk in the park for him to make me look like an idiot. Three days and counting...

Ohhhh wait. Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz and the rest of MSLSD don't work weekend. Maybe we'll hear from Bob on Monday night around 9 pm eastern.

 

[GoIrish41]

It is the law, for now. Guess what else is? All spending bills originate in the House. I think I qualify as young at 28. I'd like Congress to participate in obamacare, I'd like zero exemptions across the board, and I'd also like all my SS money back that has been taken out of my taxes since 1999 when I started working. Lord knows I'll never see a SS check.

A fair indication that the country wanted the law to be enacted? Not hardly. The country re-elected by VERY SLIM margin because they weren't convinced Romney had a better economic plan than Obama. Electoral college is garbage. Look at the votes tallied.

If the law remains and IS "successful", depending on how you define it, I will come on here and eat crow. I'm a man of my word. I'll call myself a backwards, knuckle dragging conservative and you can say, "Told ya so."

And if it fails either in practice or in simple economics, the left wing in this country will 100% have to OWN IT. And where will you be when that happens?

Absolutely. If it fails, I'll say it failed. But if it fails because half of the government is trying to cut the knees out from under it before it gets a head of steam, that is hardly reasonable. It IS the law, and we should expect our government try to make it work -- not try to work against it. And for the record, I do not believe your knuckles drag.