Politics

[connor_in]

I have a simple question- how is adding 17 trillion to the US credit card going to help the economy that is already on thin ice? I realize the current health care is not perfect however you don't go buy a new Porsche if all your CCs are maxed out and you are late on your mortgage.

Wasn't it Pelosi or Biden that said we have to spend our way out of debt?

 

[connor_in]

Just an FYI...

Obama Talks on Phone With Iran's Leader, Negotiates With Tehran | The Weekly Standard

Daily Kos: President Obama responds to GOP debt limit blackmail: 'I will not negotiate'

 

[BobD]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the world might come to an end when Obama care takes effect on the 1st. All this fear mongering has been torturous. It's now funny to me every time I hear a new terrible thing that might happen. All because the Republicans don't want the Democrats to have another legacy program like Social Security. What great legacy programs do Republicans have?

And no I'm not a democrat.

 

[BobD]

And before you reply with something about how social security sucks, name one person in your family who has refused the benefit.

 

[Wild Bill]

And before you reply with something about how social security sucks, name one person in your family who has refused the benefit.

I can't speak for my family members but I'd opt out right now and refuse any payments I've already earned. They can keep every penny.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the world might come to an end when Obama care takes effect on the 1st. All this fear mongering has been torturous. It's now funny to me every time I hear a new terrible thing that might happen. All because the Republicans don't want the Democrats to have another legacy program like Social Security. What great legacy programs do Republicans have?

And no I'm not a democrat.

1) It's not fear mongering. It's presenting facts we now know and predicted 4 years ago when this was rammed down our throats. 52% still oppose it and want it repealed. The more Americans learn about it, the less they like.

Remember Pelosi's line?? "We have to pass it so we can read what's in it." Well, here we are.

2) This has much more to do with partisan politics. It's the government intruding in the private sector (again) and making an imperfect system that much worse. These facts we've shown are undeniable.

3) A legacy program like Social Security?!?! Another Democratic legacy leading us straight off the cliff like medicare and medicaid. SS will be broke by 2030 and obamacare doesn't help our financial situation one bit.

Not one person in any of our families have refused it because it's mandatory.

Liberalism: ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

 

[BobD]

You don't have one red fact about Obama care. Just lots of speculation.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I can't speak for my family members but I'd opt out right now and refuse any payments I've already earned. They can keep every penny.

I'm 28. People in our age bracket who have had SS taken out since we started working at age 14 should start filing lawsuits against the feds now. No way will we see the money we put into it! It's robbery. And like all the other "legacy" programs handed to us by social democrats, it's mandatory of course.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You don't have one red fact about Obama care. Just lots of speculation.

Similar to autry, you haven't taken any of my points and proved them to be wrong. Second, we have a helluva lot more than speculation. We know for a fact that individuals' and families' prices are going sky high, we know the effects it's having on businesses, and we know of the doctor shortages coming down the road.

Read over the last two or three pages in this thread. It's all there. I'm not doing it for you. Read.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

You don't have one red fact about Obama care. Just lots of speculation.

bob, it will add 17 trillion to the deficit. if you were maxed on your cc would you get a new cc? of course you would not...you are responsible and pay your bills. I am not saying that the current system is perfect I am saying that when the economy in its current state-- we should not dig a deeper hole. thoughts?

 

[BobD]

Similar to autry, you haven't taken any of my points and proved them to be wrong. Second, we have a helluva lot more than speculation. We know for a fact that individuals' and families' prices are going sky high, we know the effects it's having on businesses, and we know of the doctor shortages coming down the road.

Read over the last two or three pages in this thread. It's all there. I'm not doing it for you. Read.

Prove yourself right.

Prices have been going up for a long time now.

My benefit package just had the lowest increase in 7 years.

 

[BobD]

bob, it will add 17 trillion to the deficit. if you were maxed on your cc would you get a new cc? of course you would not...you are responsible and pay your bills. I am not saying that the current system is perfect I am saying that when the economy in its current state-- we should not dig a deeper hole. thoughts?

Nobody knows for sure what it's gonna add yet. The haters say huge numbers the lovers say much lower.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

Nobody knows for sure what it's gonna add yet. The haters say huge numbers the lovers say much lower.

Ok...say it is inflated 2x....so its 8.5 trillion...is that good for the economy?

 

[Circa]

Just an FYI...

Obama Talks on Phone With Iran's Leader, Negotiates With Tehran | The Weekly Standard

Daily Kos: President Obama responds to GOP debt limit blackmail: 'I will not negotiate'

It Truly is asinine thoughts like that craziness that encourages ignorance! Look at this video and tell me I'm the crazy one...
Daily Kos: Why is the Republican Record-Breaking use of the Filibuster -- Not a topic of the News?

 

[Circa]

With the last 2 presidents in office we have what looks at this moment to be Polar opposites! The first looking for any war to jump into in his 2nd term... (including the one on our $$) and the second one looking for a peaceful agenda so that we may be looked at seriously in the world again!
The media will circumvent this into chaos, but I believe Obama is onto something here.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Prove yourself right.

Prices have been going up for a long time now.

My benefit package just had the lowest increase in 7 years.

I've posted articles with FACT that back up my premise. Look at pages 225 and 226. I'm not repeating myself because you're too lazy to go back and read. Prove me wrong. My cards are on the table.

So you, one person, just had an increase and that means obamacare is the saving grace for the entire country?????? Please tell me this is a Friday night joke.

 

[cody1smith]

I've posted articles with FACT that back up my premise. Look at pages 225 and 226. I'm not repeating myself because you're too lazy to go back and read. Prove me wrong. My cards are on the table.

So you, one person, just had an increase and that means obamacare is the saving grace for the entire country?????? Please tell me this is a Friday night joke.

I'm not saying that i'm for the health care bill, because I don't think I am.

But I am guessing you are not fronting your entire health insurance premium monthly. Either that or you are very young. Because there is a problem. A very big one.

I am self employed along with my parents and 90 percent of my family. I am lucky enough to be married to someone who is provided a shared premium from an employer. But my Mom and Dad on the other hand are footing 100% of there bill every month. They have a 10,000 dollar deductible and very average co pays and pharms. Both are in there early fifties and in good shape. Monthly check sings a tune of 1700 a month. For rural Missouri that is a lot of money.

 

[Circa]

I'm not saying that i'm for the health care bill, because I don't think I am.

But I am guessing you are not fronting your entire health insurance premium monthly. Either that or you are very young. Because there is a problem. A very big one.

I am self employed along with my parents and 90 percent of my family. I am lucky enough to be married to someone who is provided a shared premium from an employer. But my Mom and Dad on the other hand are footing 100% of there bill every month. They have a 10,000 dollar deductible and very average co pays and pharms. Both are in there early fifties and in good shape. Monthly check sings a tune of 1700 a month. For rural Missouri that is a lot of money.

So you are saying you are 25-30 age range.... working in the family business and you met a great woman who can take care of you if needed.... lol Obamacare scare tactics are frivolous, and just like SS tactics.. big money people don't understand small money problems!

 

[connor_in]

With the last 2 presidents in office we have what looks at this moment to be Polar opposites! The first looking for any war to jump into in his 2nd term... (including the one on our $$) and the second one looking for a peaceful agenda so that we may be looked at seriously in the world again!
The media will circumvent this into chaos, but I believe Obama is onto something here.

Tell that to Libya and Syria got a reprieve only because of Putin running with a slip of Kerry's tongue. By the way, the majority of the casualties in Afghanistan have taken place during the current admin...this from the Nobel PEACE prize winner

 

[BobD]

I've posted articles with FACT that back up my premise. Look at pages 225 and 226. I'm not repeating myself because you're too lazy to go back and read. Prove me wrong. My cards are on the table.

So you, one person, just had an increase and that means obamacare is the saving grace for the entire country?????? Please tell me this is a Friday night joke.

The problem is you've accepted biased speculation as fact. Until this gets rolling NOBODY has any facts, just projections.

Proving yourself correct is your responsibility, I haven't the time to invest in bickering about speculation or projections. My focus is on "what's the right thing to do?" and I believe we should help people obtain access to healthcare.

Have you ever been poor? I have scars on my leg where my mother sewed two gashes in my leg closed with thread because we didn't have the money to go to the doctor and scars from flea bites on my ankles. I've worked my a$$ off to get to where I am in this life,and I've been very fortunate, I will never forget the less fortunate because it's easier than risking something.

I used my benefits as a small example, don't be a jacks$$ and try to play it as if I was using it for more than that....and btw I work for a large corporation with over 50,000 employees that use the same benefits, so it actually would be a fair example.

State your opinions, I respect that, but don't present projections as fact and don't get all smartassed when someone states an opposing opinion.

So its known, I'm not entirely convinced this program will work, but it's a start. Its something with a good spirit behind it. My true hope is that someday people will see the real problems we have with healthcare......here's where my opinion will really take some shots, but I'll say it. Anyone entering the medical field to become wealthy is just as bad as if someone became a priest or preacher to make money. The drug companies. Insurance companies, medical device companies, many doctors and all the others involved in supposedly helping people should hang their heads in shame at what they've become.

Again, it's just my opinion. Hate on it if you want.

 

[autry_denson]

The problem is you've accepted biased speculation as fact. Until this gets rolling NOBODY has any facts, just projections.

Proving yourself correct is your responsibility, I haven't the time to invest in bickering about speculation or projections. My focus is on "what's the right thing to do?" and I believe we should help people obtain access to healthcare.

Have you ever been poor? I have scars on my leg where my mother sewed two gashes in my leg closed with thread because we didn't have the money to go to the doctor and scars from flea bites on my ankles. I've worked my a$$ off to get to where I am in this life,and I've been very fortunate, I will never forget the less fortunate because it's easier than risking something.

I used my benefits as a small example, don't be a jacks$$ and try to play it as if I was using it for more than that....and btw I work for a large corporation with over 50,000 employees that use the same benefits, so it actually would be a fair example.

State your opinions, I respect that, but don't present projections as fact and don't get all smartassed when someone states an opposing opinion.

So its known, I'm not entirely convinced this program will work, but it's a start. Its something with a good spirit behind it. My true hope is that someday people will see the real problems we have with healthcare......here's where my opinion will really take some shots, but I'll say it. Anyone entering the medical field to become wealthy is just as bad as if someone became a priest or preacher to make money. The drug companies. Insurance companies, medical device companies, many doctors and all the others involved in supposedly helping people should hang their heads in shame at what they've become.

Again, it's just my opinion. Hate on it if you want.

Nice thoughtful post. Amazing how the human element of this debate has been dismissed by the right. And the most important point made here is that the response to this law will be complex and is uncertain. Worst-case scenario speculations from people who have staked their career on somehow 'defeating' this bill that congress passed five years ago, and who are willing to destabilize the nation and sacrifice everyone who works in the public sector in order to do it, are very far from facts.

 

[BobD]

Ok...say it is inflated 2x....so its 8.5 trillion...is that good for the economy?

Speculation on this ranges from we'll save money, to we'll all go broke.

 

[Black Irish]

So let me get this straight, Obamacare could be good or bad, we don't know for certain. But we do know that anyone who opposes its implementation is certainly bad. Hmmmmmm.

 

[ND NYC]

news flash:

Health insurance premiums and the costs of healthcare have been skyrocketing for decades. Obamacare (not even implemeted) have zero/nada/nothing to do with price we pay now and have been paying for healtcare.

companies now using pending implementatiion of Obamacare as a reason/excuse to slash benefts even more than they already have been, while also using Obamacare to further cut bennies to people.

so keep listening to these talking heads, and "im positioning myself to run for president" senators and their filibusters while what REALLY impacts you continues unabated (paying more for less benefits)

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Nice thoughtful post. Amazing how the human element of this debate has been dismissed by the right. And the most important point made here is that the response to this law will be complex and is uncertain. Worst-case scenario speculations from people who have staked their career on somehow 'defeating' this bill that congress passed five years ago, and who are willing to destabilize the nation and sacrifice everyone who works in the public sector in order to do it, are very far from facts.

Defunding obamacare will not destabilize an already unstable economy. The House passed a bill sent to the Senate that funds everything EXCEPT obamacare. I tried pointing that out to you yesterday. Still hasn't sunk in.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The problem is you've accepted biased speculation as fact. Until this gets rolling NOBODY has any facts, just projections.

Proving yourself correct is your responsibility, I haven't the time to invest in bickering about speculation or projections. My focus is on "what's the right thing to do?" and I believe we should help people obtain access to healthcare.

Have you ever been poor? I have scars on my leg where my mother sewed two gashes in my leg closed with thread because we didn't have the money to go to the doctor and scars from flea bites on my ankles. I've worked my a$$ off to get to where I am in this life,and I've been very fortunate, I will never forget the less fortunate because it's easier than risking something.

I used my benefits as a small example, don't be a jacks$$ and try to play it as if I was using it for more than that....and btw I work for a large corporation with over 50,000 employees that use the same benefits, so it actually would be a fair example.

State your opinions, I respect that, but don't present projections as fact and don't get all smartassed when someone states an opposing opinion.

So its known, I'm not entirely convinced this program will work, but it's a start. Its something with a good spirit behind it. My true hope is that someday people will see the real problems we have with healthcare......here's where my opinion will really take some shots, but I'll say it. Anyone entering the medical field to become wealthy is just as bad as if someone became a priest or preacher to make money. The drug companies. Insurance companies, medical device companies, many doctors and all the others involved in supposedly helping people should hang their heads in shame at what they've become.

Again, it's just my opinion. Hate on it if you want.

My opinion is backed by facts we know, not biased speculation. Your opinion is backed by nothing but your blind support for yet another government intrusion into 1/6 of the economy.

Our healthcare system is imperfect, but firefighters don't run into a burning building and pour gasoline on it. No one on here hates the poor or wants people dying on the streets. Insinuating such a position because someone disagrees with a program that makes you "feel good" about people who need help is sad. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and we are the most charitable country in the world. Making productive citizens who work, provide for themselves and others through taxes feel like they are not doing enough is garbage. The idea that YOU feel like you need to do more doesn't mean everyone else has to jump in your boat. Others (myself included) give to the poor in other ways, such as charities.

I've never been dirt poor but I can tell you my Dad worked at my Catholic high school for 20 years, and the pay was next to nothing. My mom works in insurance. We were border line middle class.

I stated earlier that obamacare is causing costs to go up even more than they had, and it's true. People are getting letters and new rates for their insurance. Not speculation. Here it is. Again

Rising Premiums Expose Obamacare ‘Bait and Switch’ | The Fiscal Times

I stated it will cause a great doctor shortage. Here it is. Again

Thanks To Obamacare, A 20,000 Doctor Shortage Is Set To Quintuple - Forbes

I stated obamacare is already hurting job growth. Here it is. Again.

Staffing CEO says Obamacare law hurting hiring on Main Street

I stated doctors oppose obamacare because of its ramifications. Here it is. Again.

Why doctors hate ObamaCare | New York Post

My cards are on the table. You let me know which one of these is "biased speculation." Then please show me why I'm wrong on my arguments. You'll also notice none of these are from FoxNews, RedState, Breitbart, or Sarah Palin's blog.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Regardless, it's going to be the law come Tuesday. We'll find out how well it works soon enough. In the meantime, I think we should all be hoping that it's successful.

 

[GoIrish41]

Regardless, it's going to be the law come Tuesday. We'll find out how well it works soon enough. In the meantime, I think we should all be hoping that it's successful.

But wouldn't Obama be credited with something successful then? That is just unacceptable.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

But wouldn't Obama be credited with something successful then? That is just unacceptable.

Since it's going to happen, people shouldn't be rooting for failure.

 

[BobD]

Defunding obamacare will not destabilize an already unstable economy. The House passed a bill sent to the Senate that funds everything EXCEPT obamacare. I tried pointing that out to you yesterday. Still hasn't sunk in.

Why would they waste ours and their time?