Politics

[IrishJayhawk]

I think conservatives have pretty much cornered the market in "Fear Politics".

Anywho, you keep implying that the President doesn't give us access to facts/numbers. That is simply untrue. You can read the entire plan (even the hard numbers) on the site they designed specifically for people to find out the details of the plan.

Health Reform in Action | The White House

If there is one thing that is absolutely true about the President, is that he has given us more access to his plans possibly than any other President in history. Romney is the one that hasn't explained how he is possibly going to follow through on anything that he has promised.

I'm guessing you wont read the site though. You make up your mind on every Obama policy before you know what they are. That's what is wrong with politics today. So many people would rather get the "facts" from talking heads at their "news" channel of preference instead of actually trying to find the real facts.

You must also be a moron.

 

[irishpat183]

I think conservatives have pretty much cornered the market in "Fear Politics".

Anywho, you keep implying that the President doesn't give us access to facts/numbers. That is simply untrue. You can read the entire plan (even the hard numbers) on the site they designed specifically for people to find out the details of the plan.

Health Reform in Action | The White House

If there is one thing that is absolutely true about the President, is that he has given us more access to his plans possibly than any other President in history. Romney is the one that hasn't explained how he is possibly going to follow through on anything that he has promised.

I'm guessing you wont read the site though. You make up your mind on every Obama policy before you know what they are. That's what is wrong with politics today. So many people would rather get the "facts" from talking heads at their "news" channel of preference instead of actually trying to find the real facts.

Cause WHitehouse.gov told you so....Got it.


Have you even looked at the numbers for the ACA?

CBO: Obamacare Pricetag at Least $820 Billion More Than Expected | Heartlander Magazine

See, you think he's being "transparent" by telling you what he wants you to know.

 

[irishpat183]

You must also be a moron.

Wooly is not a moron. None of you are.

Just misguided souls and Irishpat is the riverman coming to save you.

 

[irishpat183]

I think conservatives have pretty much cornered the market in "Fear Politics".
Anywho, you keep implying that the President doesn't give us access to facts/numbers. That is simply untrue. You can read the entire plan (even the hard numbers) on the site they designed specifically for people to find out the details of the plan.

Health Reform in Action | The White House

If there is one thing that is absolutely true about the President, is that he has given us more access to his plans possibly than any other President in history. Romney is the one that hasn't explained how he is possibly going to follow through on anything that he has promised.

I'm guessing you wont read the site though. You make up your mind on every Obama policy before you know what they are. That's what is wrong with politics today. So many people would rather get the "facts" from talking heads at their "news" channel of preference instead of actually trying to find the real facts.

Old people won't get SS they said if we don't pass stimulus (lie)

People are dying in the streets...we need to pass the ACA (lie)

Liberals us the "heart strings" fear approach. The "you'll be a bad person"...if we don't pass this or support that. Different, but equally effective.


And Obama gives you numbers...they're just wrong.

 

[pkt77242]

Wooly is not a moron. None of you are.

Just misguided souls and Irishpat is the riverman coming to save you.

So you are Death?

Does that make you part of the death panels that the right keep warning us about?

 

[PraetorianND]

Old people won't get SS they said if we don't pass stimulus (lie)

People are dying in the streets...we need to pass the ACA (lie)

Liberals us the "heart strings" fear approach. The "you'll be a bad person"...if we don't pass this or support that. Different, but equally effective.


And Obama gives you numbers...they're just wrong.

Oversimplified, baseless claims. You go to Irishpat for that!

 

[pkt77242]

Old people won't get SS they said if we don't pass stimulus (lie)

People are dying in the streets...we need to pass the ACA (lie)

Liberals us the "heart strings" fear approach. The "you'll be a bad person"...if we don't pass this or support that. Different, but equally effective.


And Obama gives you numbers...they're just wrong.

Actually some hospitals still do patient dumping (it pops up on the news every once in a while or for profit hopsitals transfer patients with no insurance to nonprofits after they get them stable), which while not dying in the streets is pretty damn close. Also I don't really even remember that being the arguement for healthcare reform.

Also do you get that you pay for people who don't have insurance and then go to the hospital?

Study: Insured pay 'hidden tax' for uninsured health care - USATODAY.com

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I don't actually mind Obama that much. He just sucks at regulation, spends way too much, and doesn't deliver on his promises.

He's the starter for 4 years for a team that's 8-8, when in his 4th year that team should be 12-4. Time to try the backup QB.

 

[irishpat183]

Actually some hospitals still do patient dumping (it pops up on the news every once in a while or for profit hopsitals transfer patients with no insurance to nonprofits after they get them stable), which while not dying in the streets is pretty damn close. Also I don't really even remember that being the arguement for healthcare reform.

Also do you get that you pay for people who don't have insurance and then go to the hospital? Can you even grasp that concept because you seem to ignore when you talk about the healthcare bill.
Study: Insured pay 'hidden tax' for uninsured health care - USATODAY.com

Oh yes, I do. I also know that people without insurance are least likely to go to the hospital. And now every papercut or sneeze will result in a doctors visit.


And adding 30 million people to a system, ANY system, isn't going to be "cheaper"...so cut that crap. The numbers tell the tale. And what abotu quality of care?

Why is it that the left is so concerned with gettting everyone covered....but they ignore at what cost...and how that is going to effect quality of care?

 

[irishpat183]

So you are Death?

Does that make you part of the death panels that the right keep warning us about?

You mean the ACA death panels??


Some call me the pale rider....but that could be because I lack a tan.

 

[irishpat183]

I don't actually mind Obama that much. He just sucks at regulation, spends way too much, and doesn't deliver on his promises.

He's the starter for 4 years for a team that's 8-8, when in his 4th year that team should be 12-4. Time to try the backup QB.

Drink a beer and talk sports?? Obama all the way. Seems like a cool guy. Nothing personal at all.


He just sucks at his job. And should be fired. And so should the next guy if he doesn't get it done.

It's amazing how much time those paying no taxes are willing to give their guy to get his sh*t together. I wonder why......

 

[Domina Nostra]

On the President's transparency record, from non-conservative sources...

President Obama's muddy transparency record - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administration-struggles-to-live-up-to-its-transparency-promise-post-analysis-shows/2012/08/03/71172462-dcae-11e1-9974-5c975ae4810f_story.html

White House Press Corps Wonders When Obama Will Actually Take Their Questions

Helen Thomas hits White House for lack of transparency - YouTube

 

[pkt77242]

Oh yes, I do. I also know that people without insurance are least likely to go to the hospital. And now every papercut or sneeze will result in a doctors visit.


And adding 30 million people to a system, ANY system, isn't going to be "cheaper"...so cut that crap. The numbers tell the tale. And what abotu quality of care?

Why is it that the left is so concerned with gettting everyone covered....but they ignore at what cost...and how that is going to effect quality of care?

You just made me laugh. You realize that one emergency room visit costs the same as about 8-12 primary care visits? As to the papercut and sneeze part, you are just being crazy.

Look the actual increase in cost will be less than trying to pay for their emergency room visits especially because a chunk of the people that have to get insurance will be healthy young adults who don't normally carry it.

 

[pkt77242]

I don't actually mind Obama that much. He just sucks at regulation, spends way too much, and doesn't deliver on his promises.

He's the starter for 4 years for a team that's 8-8, when in his 4th year that team should be 12-4. Time to try the backup QB.

Hilary Clinton.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

You mean the ACA death panels??


Some call me the pale rider....but that could be because I lack a tan.

The Medicare committee decides what procedures Seniors will get and won't get, what will and won't be covered, and set the reimbursement schedules driving whether service will be available to everyone in the marketplace. Are people saying this is made up or something?

Isn't the entire premise of Obamacare that certain coverages are cases of life and death? And if a "panel" decides on whether coverage exists at all, well, aren't they deciding whether people live or die?

And if a "panel" decides whether people live or die, well, aren't they a "death panel"?

 

[mgriff]

 

[IrishJayhawk]

You just made me laugh. You realize that one emergency room visit costs the same as about 8-12 primary care visits? As to the papercut and sneeze part, you are just being crazy.

Look the actual increase in cost will be less than trying to pay for their emergency room visits especially because a chunk of the people that have to get insurance will be healthy young adults who don't normally carry it.

^This

 

[phgreek]

You make up your mind on every Obama policy before you know what they are.

...but she ...well, when healthcare...isn't that what Aunt Nancy says we need to do.

Just messin with ya...

...pretty sure we are not in agreement on the issues. However, I agree with your sentiment about seeking information, and skipping the talking heads until you do...btw not claiming to know who does or does not watch the talking heads.

I will say this...finding REAL HONEST non-partisan material is a pretty tall order...
Everything from history to economics to ongoing events are "spun". I think what you sign up for is covering topics from a couple points of view...and thats not easy or fun...it really does take time and discipline...and even then, really, most people do it so they can attack the other side, not come to common ground or some Objective understanding...

 

[phgreek]

DUDE...that is awesome....

 

[pkt77242]

The Medicare committee decides what procedures Seniors will get and won't get, what will and won't be covered, and set the reimbursement schedules driving whether service will be available to everyone in the marketplace. Are people saying this is made up or something?

Isn't the entire premise of Obamacare that certain coverages are cases of life and death? And if a "panel" decides on whether coverage exists at all, well, aren't they deciding whether people live or die?

And if a "panel" decides whether people live or die, well, aren't they a "death panel"?

So just like insurance companies decide what is covered and not covered? So does that make all insurance companies death panels or "death companies"? Just saying.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Why is the tuRd sandwich sign bigger huh? Another Faux News conspiracy?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

So just like insurance companies decide what is covered and not covered? So does that make all insurance companies death panels or "death companies"? Just saying.

Yes, except there is more than one insurance company, and they compete among themselves for access to providers.

You also can drop insurance companies, meaning they have an incentive to keep you.

[EDIT -- actually no, because what's covered by insurance is in your policy document and can't be changed by a panel]

 

[Domina Nostra]

Yes, except there is more than one insurance company, and they compete among themselves for access to providers.

You also can drop insurance companies, meaning they have an incentive to keep you.

[EDIT -- actually no, because what's covered by insurance is in your policy document and can't be changed by a panel]

I think their is a big difference between (1) individuals contracting with insurance companies to cover certain procedures and not others, and (2) empowering the federal government, either through elected or appointed officials, to be making those decisions for an ever increasing number of people, always in the name of fairness and efficiency

The idea of a bunch of "ethicists" and professional health care providers deciding the value of a year of life, or a hip, or an eyem, or whatever for all Americans of certain age groups seems Orwellian to me. I am always suprised that liberals dismiss this kind critique so cavalierly.

 

[pkt77242]

I think their is a big difference between (1) individuals contracting with insurance companies to cover certain procedures and not others, and (2) empowering the federal government, either through elected or appointed officials, to be making those decisions for an ever increasing number of people, always in the name of fairness and efficiency

The idea of a bunch of "ethicists" and professional health care providers deciding the value of a year of life, or a hip, or an eyem, or whatever for all Americans of certain age groups seems Orwellian to me. I am always suprised that liberals dismiss this kind critique so cavalierly.

Hmm, I find it funny that conservatives want a for profit company making decisions about your healthcare. Especially when we know that they pay people whos only job is to find ways to decline claims, who up until obamacare would drop you when you became to expensive, who wouldn't cover preexisting conditions, and who only want to profit off of you. Yet you want them to make healthcare decisions for you? Also I have had plenty of things that were supposed to be covered by my insurance but were declined and I had to spend tons of time trying to get them to pay the bill.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Hmm, I find it funny that conservatives want a for profit company making decisions about your healthcare. Especially when we know that they pay people whos only job is to find ways to decline claims, who up until obamacare would drop you when you became to expensive, who wouldn't cover preexisting conditions, and who only want to profit off of you. Yet you want them to make healthcare decisions for you? Also I have had plenty of things that were supposed to be covered by my insurance but were declined and I had to spend tons of time trying to get them to pay the bill.

I don't "want" them making decisions for me. I contract with them to cover certain things and then expect them to provide them. It is ultimately an argument about the terms of an agreement, not what the Insurance company deems fair or good or right or just. Its "We think we will need to pay out X for services this year, how much do we need to charge?" If you pay them, they are obligated to cover you.

If their is a gray area in the coverage, some companies get reputations for fighting them tooth and nail, some are more generous, and some try to be as true to the letter of the contract as they can. You have to chose a company wisely and some people are always going to get burned. Sure some companies try to cheat, and their are laws against that. Maybe they should be better. Why do you assume I am against any kind of health care legislation?

But if the goverenment chose, the premise becomes we owe everyone health care, we have X dollars to divvy up, what can we afford? What is fair? That makes me nervous. I'd rather have a variety of options that can change and be modified, than one big centralized one-size-fits all system. I don't trust people who don't share my value system to be making such critical decisions.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

It turns out that Romney is for FEMA now. This guy has a serious problem with standing by anything he has ever said.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...59WWbbwoWiLn3x3dQ&sig2=ChcjOLuBqW0LocKNNnnhaw

 

[pkt77242]

I don't "want" them making decisions for me. I contract with them to cover certain things and then expect them to provide them.

It is ultimately an argument about the terms of an agreement, not what the Insurance company deems fair or good or right or just.

If their is a gray area in the coverage, some companies get reputations for fighting them tooth and nail, some are more generous, and some try to be as true to the letter of the contract as they can. You have to chose a company wisely and some people are always going to get burned.

But if the goverenment chose, the premise becomes we owe everyone health care, we have X dollars to divvy up, what can we afford? What is fair?

For insurance comapnies, its "We think we will need to pay out X for services this year, how much do we need to charge?" If you pay them, they are obligated to cover you.

Or they just drop you when you become too expensive.

Actually the government can lose money on medical coverage so it isn't we have x dollars how do we divvy it up. So that is a completely incorrect analogy.

 

[Downinthebend]

Or they just drop you when you become too expensive.

Actually the government can lose money on medical coverage so it isn't we have x dollars how do we divvy it up. So that is a completely incorrect analogy.

Ah, my favorite part of government accounting! They can spend as much money as they want and not be accountable to anyone. Ugh.

 

[PraetorianND]

It turns out that Romney is for FEMA now. This guy has a serious problem with standing by anything he has ever said.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...59WWbbwoWiLn3x3dQ&sig2=ChcjOLuBqW0LocKNNnnhaw

LOL Classic.....

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Hmm, I find it funny that conservatives want a for profit company making decisions about your healthcare. Especially when we know that they pay people whos only job is to find ways to decline claims....

You know Medicare does this too, right? And when they find your charting doesn't match their "panel" standards, not only do they deny the claim, they also charge you with a felony. Big reason many providers just don't accept it.