Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352
B

Buster Bluth

Guest

F*ck the Huffington Post. What a piece-of-sh*t institution. Just the wording in that reeks of bias. Why do actual journalism (i.e. find out the answers to the f*cking questions) when you can just post an article that is open ended and leads one to assume Romney is a bad guy.

I was wrong, Romney actually grew up with maids and whatnot, but in his adult life has kept their usage to an absolute minimum.

The Boston Globe reported June 27, 2007, "Mitt eschewed the trappings of wealth. The family had no cook or full-time maid." An anonymous source close to the Romneys told the International Business Times Thursday, "No nannies." While the Romneys financial disclosure forms show they had four housekeepers in 2010, the women weren't paid nearly enough to be regular laundresses. Some of the wages paid were for personal-assistant-type chores, instead of washing dishes.

Maybe we're too quick to judge. Perhaps Mitt Romney did his fair share of household chores unlike most American men. Or maybe there are some who think there is something noble about scrubbing your own toilet. But, to us, the idea of being wealthy and still having to do dishes and sort socks and dust things -- it's worse than a war on women. It might be a war crime: wife torture.]

Still clearly not anything close to being catered to by a crew of maids.
 

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900
No one is saying they are normal. No one who is normal runs for President.

They are not, however, of the super-rich and glitzy douchebag trustfund ilk. I know my fair share of those people, and I know my fair share of Mormons. The Romneys are very, very Mormon in their functioning.

This country could use more Mormons. I've never met a Mormon who wasn't absurdly polite, hardworking and honest. And I've never met someone who was polite, hardworking, and honest who wasn't pretty successful in accomplishing their goals.

No man, those are literally the most awkward and wooden people I've ever seen. I know my fair share of uber-wealthy people, too, and there may be douchebags among them but even the douchebags have some semblance of personality, for better or worse. And it doesn't help that in every circumstance - whether it is a supposed "candid" interview or campaign press release - every word is 100% political calculus. Every word that Ann Romney says in interviews is scripted nonsense designed to address a specific criticism of her husband that his campaign has identified in their internal polling. If it has had any effect to this point it has been negative, and I think it is only going to get worse as more and more people start to engage in this election in the fall.

Republicans would lose every national election if it were only about policy, so they have become very adept at the marketing aspects of campaigning. In Romney, they are stuck with a candidate they can't effectively market.
 

BobD

Can't get no satisfaction
Messages
7,918
Reaction score
1,034
How does a man run for President of the United States opposing everything he championed as a Governor? He's changed everything but his name!
 

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900
F*ck the Huffington Post. What a piece-of-sh*t institution. Just the wording in that reeks of bias. Why do actual journalism (i.e. find out the answers to the f*cking questions) when you can just post an article that is open ended and leads one to assume Romney is a bad guy.

I was wrong, Romney actually grew up with maids and whatnot, but in his adult life has kept their usage to an absolute minimum.



Still clearly not anything close to being catered to by a crew of maids.

With all due respect, you just posted videos from Fox News, so I don't think you're in a great position to be dismissing things presented here because you think the source is biased. HuffPo self-identifies as a progressive news site, whereas Fox pretends to play it down the middle, and Fox is decidedly more "right" than the HuffPo is "left."
 

phgreek

New member
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
433
Whoa. Mitt Romney is human after all:

Mitt Romney previews his big week

The Romneys at home

While noting the obvious non-answer on medicare and not too fond of his Planned Parenthood stance (although we do have to stop printing money...), it is sorta nice to see that they are, at heart, just a bunch of Mormons. haha and I mean that in a great way, honestly. When I grew up my best friend was Mormon and he had seven siblings and his whole family operated with machine-like efficiency and were so insanely family-oriented. The guy irons his own **** and his wife shops at Costco, and they don't have butlers and maids. They have to be in the minority for people worth $250bil.

Hey, you tricked me into going to Fox news...I am now stained, and cannot possibly think like all the brilliant liberal minds on here...oh wait

The guy is the alternative to the guy in the office now.

The guy in the office now doesn't have much of a resume pre-oval office, and he has been successful in overseeing the completion of the process to kill a sworn enemy +1, and w/o the courtesy of vaseline, ramming yet another entitlement up my a$$ that he and his hinchmen never even read -1...and issuing executive orders and guidance in direct violation to standing law -1...can not get the senate to bring a budget to VOTE...-1.

The economy is attributable to both parties to a certain extent...but Romney didn't get elected on the promise to fix it in '08...the guy sitting in the whitehouse DID -1.

This can go on and on...the point is, the liberal shrill voice and seemingly beauty pageant level attacks are turning people off...yes Fox news unabashedly held him out to be a normal guy...he's not. its a weak flank and he tried to address it. Meh, I guess you could have BO try and lead something on MSNBC...oh wait....
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
With all due respect, you just posted videos from Fox News, so I don't think you're in a great position to be dismissing things presented here because you think the source is biased. HuffPo self-identifies as a progressive news site, whereas Fox pretends to play it down the middle, and Fox is decidedly more "right" than the HuffPo is "left."

False. Fox openly admits that guys like Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, etc are opinions.

To say that Fox News is more right than "HuffPo" is left is crazy. I haven't read too many articles like that from Fox.

Chris Wallace is a paragon of a journalist, and I find Fox News Sunday and Bret Baier's panel to unmatched in their discussion in comparison to CNN and MSNBC.

And for the record, Fox was the only place I could find at sit-down interview with Romney, so spare me the lame "welp you only listen to Fox so you've been brainwashed." I hate Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, and the like. (Although I do generally agree with O'Reilly, like 75% of the time)
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
How does a man run for President of the United States opposing everything he championed as a Governor? He's changed everything but his name!

Well it's false and ignorant to say that he's changed everything but his name; and to assume that positions can't change from a state level to a federal level is just silly. I personally am for all kinds of things Democrats like on a state level, just not federally. I also find it funny that when Obama changes his mind, it's considered "evolving."

But the reason is simple, and sad. The Republican Party has been held hostage since the 1980's by this massive group of Biblethumpers who have steered the party away from reality. The GOP Primary is little more than "who can be the most subtle gay-basher, proclaim most loudly how much they hate abortion, and pretend to want to defense the sanctity of marriage!" competition. The whole primary season is a joke. But don't be a fool and assume those are actual policies, that's merely the fondling of the collective ballsack of a hundred millions ignorant Christians.
 
Last edited:

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900

You honestly disagree with that? The only republican who has won on merit and substance in my lifetime is G.H.W. Bush. Otherwise, it has been two guys of questionable chops in the policy arena who were elected based on a combination of their "relatability," exploitation of identity politics and the packaging and selling a bundle of policy initiatives that are antithetical to the actual best interests of 95% of the electorate. I actually respect conservatives' ability to frame the debate and inject their talking points into the public discourse. If the left were half as good in those areas these national elections would not be close.
 

BobD

Can't get no satisfaction
Messages
7,918
Reaction score
1,034
I don't care who puts Romney on TV, I just hope they keep doing it over and over. Eventually he'll convince everyone to vote for someone else.
 

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900
Well it's false and ignorant to say that he's changes everything but his name. And to assume that positions can't change from a state level to a federal government level is just silly. I personally am for all kids of things Democrats like on a state level, just not federally. I also find it funny that when Obama changes his mind, it's considered "evolving."

But the reason is simple, and sad. The Republican Party has been held hostage since the 1980's by this massive group of Biblethumpers who have steered the party away from reality. The GOP Primary is little more than "who can be the most subtle gay-basher, proclaim most loudly how much they hate abortion, and pretend to want to defense the sanctity of marriage!" competition. The whole primary season is a joke. But don't be fool and assume those are actual policies, that's merely the fondling of the collective ballsack of a hundred millions ignorant Christians.

This supports part of my point....without those "biblethumpers" the republicans would get absolutely hammered in national elections. Republicans lose non-biblethumpers at a prolific rate. And your observation that the republican establishment has deliberately and disingenuously co-opted those folks is one of the few political points upon which we seem to agree. It is an awkward marriage between the corporate interests that actually steer the party and the biblethumpers, who actually have nothing in common, but each cannot possibly accomplish their political goals without the other.
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
You honestly disagree with that? The only republican who has won on merit and substance in my lifetime is G.H.W. Bush. Otherwise, it has been two guys of questionable chops in the policy arena who were elected based on a combination of their "relatability," exploitation of identity politics and the packaging and selling a bundle of policy initiatives that are antithetical to the actual best interests of 95% of the electorate. I actually respect conservatives' ability to frame the debate and inject their talking points into the public discourse. If the left were half as good in those areas these national elections would not be close.

That's different than the Democrats? News flash: Americans are quite easily manipulated.

They voted for Bush (twice) because they felt that they could drink a beer with him. He was super-duper Texan and the midwest and south ate it up like they do their tv dinners.

They voted for Obama because he was a well spoken black dude who resembled everything that wasn't the norm in DC. Well let me let Biden do the talking: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

But I think it's total bullshit to say that the right (and not the left) only wins because they can sell their malarkey. HA! You are soooo in the bag for Obama. You think Obama has policies to sell right now?! You cannot possibly believe that, I know you're too smart for that.
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
This supports part of my point....without those "biblethumpers" the republicans would get absolutely hammered in national elections. Republicans lose non-biblethumpers at a prolific rate. And your observation that the republican establishment has deliberately and disingenuously co-opted those folks is one of the few political points upon which we seem to agree. It is an awkward marriage between the corporate interests that actually steer the party and the biblethumpers, who actually have nothing in common, but each cannot possibly accomplish their political goals without the other.

That's IF Romney was actually running on what the 'thumpers wanted. He's a "Massachusetts Moderate," he always has been and always will be.

You can't say "they'd lose without ____," and not say that the Dems would get slaughtered without the ivory tower liberals, or the unions, or the welfare folk. It goes both ways.
 

BobD

Can't get no satisfaction
Messages
7,918
Reaction score
1,034
While noting the obvious non-answer on medicare and not too fond of his Planned Parenthood stance (although we do have to stop printing money...), it is sorta nice to see that they are, at heart, just a bunch of Mormons. haha and I mean that in a great way, honestly. When I grew up my best friend was Mormon and he had seven siblings and his whole family operated with machine-like efficiency and were so insanely family-oriented. The guy irons his own **** and his wife shops at Costco, and they don't have butlers and maids. They have to be in the minority for people worth $250bil.

Well it's false and ignorant to say that he's changed everything but his name; and to assume that positions can't change from a state level to a federal level is just silly. I personally am for all kinds of things Democrats like on a state level, just not federally. I also find it funny that when Obama changes his mind, it's considered "evolving."

So you make statements about him not having maids which was completely wrong, then call my statement "false and ignorant" even though we all know he WAS pro-choice and supported government health care. You are truly a republican. :wink:
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Z-m0S1vJCb8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Barry pretty much spells it out for us here. Why should he move to the center (as Dems were pleading for him to do after 2010), when you can just make the election about tax returns and Planned Parenthood? smh. Like that **** matters at all.
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
So you make statements about him not having maids which was completely wrong, then call my statement "false and ignorant" even though we all know he WAS pro-choice and supported government health care. You are truly a republican. :wink:

It wasn't completely wrong. Soooo swing and a miss? Did you not read my quote? When Mitt became an adult he stopped using maids.

Romney STILL supports government health care. Watch the ****ing video. He says "I'll not only get rid of Obamacare, I'll replace it." ....which surprised me, the 'thumpers won't like that (although they won't know what to like). As for pro-choice....that isn't an evolving situation? The hypocrisy is stunning.
 

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900
That's IF Romney was actually running on what the 'thumpers wanted. He's a "Massachusetts Moderate," he always has been and always will be.

You can't say "they'd lose without ____," and not say that the Dems would get slaughtered without the ivory tower liberals, or the unions, or the welfare folk. It goes both ways.

Ha seriously I could just do this until the sun comes out, but I have to go to bed. I'm a sick person...I love election years and I love debating this stuff. Your last post requires a more thorough answer than this one, though, so I'll save that one for tomorrow.

If you have only two parties, obviously you're going to have to form some sort of a coalition and you're going to end up with strange bedfellows. For instance, I have issues with unions in general, but especially public sector unions, and I also recognize they are vital to getting my candidates into office. (I would also suggest union voters typically aren't very progressive from a policy standpoint, and I'm more of a progressive than a democrat.)

At least the major constituent groups you identified for democrats are aligned philosophically to some degree, even if they aren't completely in lock step. They also have common enemies. I would argue that you would be hard pressed to find two voter groups that should be more philosophically opposed to one another than evangelical christians and super wealthy people who don't want to pay taxes or play by any rules in their financial dealings (I suppose there are some non-super-wealthy republicans that also aren't super-religious, but those people have obviously been tricked, brainwashed or confused at some point and I don't really know what to make of them). The interests that control the party in terms of funding elections and dictating policy choices in Washington are the wealthiest and greediest people/corporations on the planet, and the policies that they pursue are blatantly horrible for the working class (and mainly uneducated and unsophisticated) evangelicals who keep voting them in.
 

BobD

Can't get no satisfaction
Messages
7,918
Reaction score
1,034
It wasn't completely wrong. Soooo swing and a miss? Did you not read my quote? When Mitt became an adult he stopped using maids.

Romney STILL supports government health care. Watch the ****ing video. He says "I'll not only get rid of Obamacare, I'll replace it." ....which surprised me, the 'thumpers won't like that (although they won't know what to like). As for pro-choice....that isn't an evolving situation? The hypocrisy is stunning.

At what age does someone become an adult to you? He had housekeepers on his 2009 tax returns. Your "hypocrisy is stunning" comment must be self reflection?


Buster, You shouldn't try to insult people or their opinions because they differ from yours, epecially when your armed with duds.
 

PJWhitfield

New member
Messages
267
Reaction score
20
Bob, "How does a man run for President of the United States opposing everything he championed as a Governor?" Easy. If you want to win in Massachusetts, you have to operate differently than if you want to win a national race. Big deal. That's politics.
 
Messages
11,214
Reaction score
377
It wasn't completely wrong. Soooo swing and a miss? Did you not read my quote? When Mitt became an adult he stopped using maids.

Romney STILL supports government health care. Watch the ****ing video. He says "I'll not only get rid of Obamacare, I'll replace it." ....which surprised me, the 'thumpers won't like that (although they won't know what to like). As for pro-choice....that isn't an evolving situation? The hypocrisy is stunning.

What will he replace it with? Has he specified that or do we just have to trust him?
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
Messages
8,622
Reaction score
2,722
Well it's false and ignorant to say that he's changed everything but his name; and to assume that positions can't change from a state level to a federal level is just silly. I personally am for all kinds of things Democrats like on a state level, just not federally. I also find it funny that when Obama changes his mind, it's considered "evolving."

But the reason is simple, and sad. The Republican Party has been held hostage since the 1980's by this massive group of Biblethumpers who have steered the party away from reality. The GOP Primary is little more than "who can be the most subtle gay-basher, proclaim most loudly how much they hate abortion, and pretend to want to defense the sanctity of marriage!" competition. The whole primary season is a joke. But don't be a fool and assume those are actual policies, that's merely the fondling of the collective ballsack of a hundred millions ignorant Christians.

I'd rep you but I have to spread it around. Great point. It drives me nuts that these issues have so much clout in the party when they are really third tier issues(at best, more like non-issues) in relation to what can actually be accomplished by a president.
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
Messages
8,622
Reaction score
2,722
Rhode - You say you like to debate but you do nothing but trash Romney? What are the most attractive qualities of Obama to you, conversely what is least attractive? Is there no issue in which you prefer Romney to Obama? You say you are more progressive than most democrats, what parts of government to you want bigger. Is there anything you want smaller (I suspect defense is top of the list and I agree that there is plenty of room there)?

If we make government bigger, who pays for it? I suspect you will say rich people but I illustrated in a previous post that 1/5th of the "cost" of the expiring Bush tax cuts was to "high" income earners ($50 billion out of $250 billion annual total) which doesn't even scratch the surface of the CURRENT deficit, let alone an increased level of spending to support even further expansion of government? Do you acknowledge the Laffer Curve which is the concept that (at some point) rising Rates reduce revenue and lower rates increase revenue? We can debate where that point may be but you cannot honestly believe that 100% tax rates raises the most revenue for government. Or is it a matter of "fairness" or "equality" that people should not be allowed to earn more than a certain amount or accumulate a certain amount of wealth?
 

Irish Houstonian

New member
Messages
2,722
Reaction score
301
Well it's false and ignorant to say that he's changed everything but his name; and to assume that positions can't change from a state level to a federal level is just silly. I personally am for all kinds of things Democrats like on a state level, just not federally. I also find it funny that when Obama changes his mind, it's considered "evolving."...

Bingo. 954 posts and finally someone understands federalism. I don't care if Massachusetts has free abortions, unlimited welfare and Soviet health care -- if that's what they want, let them have it. Just don't make Texans do it unless we approve of it ourselves.

And I want a President that recognizes this, and lets us decide on a state level what good for us. Federalism is the hallmark of our union.

Any governor, red or blue, who thwarts a bill with 90% approval is called a tyrant. The fact that Romney refused to be a tyrant here is a strength, not a weakness.
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
First off, holy hell do I curse when I drink and post! Sorry about that fellas. I really am a level-headed debater I promise hahah

What will he replace it with? Has he specified that or do we just have to trust him?

You're aware that candidates never release specifics, right? It is unwise for what I would think would be obvious reasons. No policy is 100% popular, and given the extremely dire situation in this country, it will not be universally acclaimed. Why open yourself up to criticism?

What real voters do it look at the track record of the candidates. In regards to health care, Romney has a record of working bipartisanly (a new adverb..) to develop a plan.

Obama has a record, when it comes to heath care, that is awful shady and in my opinion downright shameful in terms of how it was developed. He feels that the best option is a big, big federal program, and he ultimately wants to see a single-payer universal and federal health care system.

His words, not mine:

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fpAyan1fXCE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Last edited:

Bluto

Well-known member
Messages
8,146
Reaction score
3,979
Bingo. 954 posts and finally someone understands federalism. I don't care if Massachusetts has free abortions, unlimited welfare and Soviet health care -- if that's what they want, let them have it. Just don't make Texans do it unless we approve of it ourselves.

And I want a President that recognizes this, and lets us decide on a state level what good for us. Federalism is the hallmark of our union.

Any governor, red or blue, who thwarts a bill with 90% approval is called a tyrant. The fact that Romney refused to be a tyrant here is a strength, not a weakness.

Weren't these same "let the states do what they want" arguments used to justify slavery in the South? Anyhow, without the Feds kicking people in the nuts from time to time and developing cohesive environemental policies that crossed state lines we would still have rivers that caught fire (Cuyahoga), run amok clear cutting and strip mining, repeats of the dust bowl as well as acid rain. I doubt if left up to the states the US would ever develop any semblance of a comprehensive energy or climate change policy.
 

Irish Houstonian

New member
Messages
2,722
Reaction score
301
Weren't these same "let the states do what they want" arguments used to justify slavery in the South? Anyhow, without the Feds kicking people in the nuts from time to time and developing cohesive environemental policies that crossed state lines we would still have rivers that caught fire (Cuyahoga), run amok clear cutting and strip mining, repeats of the dust bowl as well as acid rain. I doubt if left up to the states the US would ever develop any semblance of a comprehensive energy or climate change policy.

Opting out of Obamacare is hardly the same as enslaving citizens. If you're a slave-master, no federalism argument will save you, obviously.

Clearly there is a place for a federal legislature, like you've pointed out -- hence the Constitution. I was referring more the social issues in the thread. Things like abortion, healthcare, welfare, etc. Thing that were, you know, entirely state responsibilities for the first 200 years of the United States.
 

Domina Nostra

Well-known member
Messages
6,251
Reaction score
1,388
Weren't these same "let the states do what they want" arguments used to justify slavery in the South? Anyhow, without the Feds kicking people in the nuts from time to time and developing cohesive environemental policies that crossed state lines we would still have rivers that caught fire (Cuyahoga), run amok clear cutting and strip mining, repeats of the dust bowl as well as acid rain. I doubt if left up to the states the US would ever develop any semblance of a comprehensive energy or climate change policy.

It seems like the reasoning is:
- The States were on the wrong side of the biggest of all issues, slavery
- the federal goverenmnet was on the right side of that argument
- Therefore, states bad, feds good.

There is absolutely no doubt that the federal goverenment bought itself decades of credibility in that fight, and the Southern States really undermined a lot of the goodwill towards federalism. But, still, is that really a good argument to justify actions moving foward? What is inherently good about federal goverenment that we should just trust it to always do the right thing vis a vis the States. The feds have gotten us into some highly questionable wars, created a fundemental right to abortion, and created an almost insurmountable national debt, among other things.

Our founding fathers were deeply wary of consolidated power, and their entire system is basd on dividing it up- horizontally between the three branches of the federal goverenemnt, and vertically between the limited federal goverenemtn and the States. Catholic political theory says that organized actions should be passed down to the most localized goverenemnt that can handle the task, and that goverenemtn should not take away from families and individuals responsibility that are rightly theirs (subsidiarity). My point is that a healthy skepticism of centralized goverenemnt is both American and Catholic, and it is very consistent with the lessons of the 20th century (facism and communism).

As far as environmentalism, the federal goverenment has broad powers to regulate actors in interstate commerce, so EPA would probably have a long arm even under a more state-centered system insofar as those activities were incidental to commerce. Second, the States would still have to answer to their people for intrastate pollution. My guess is that people's tolerance of pollution is far lower than it was 100 years ago. This is certainly demonstrated in the use of traditional causes of action to fight polluters.
 
Top