Police State USA

[Irish#1]

Kap is an idiot.

ESPN retweeted it as well. Another reason I only watch FB or BB on ESPN.

 

[IrishLion]

Facts man facts. The warrant had that apartment address on it. And you don't get shot 5 times laying down. Those cops were not standing over top of her and shot her. And better yet if you aren't involved in illegal behavior the police won't show up to your house.

1. It doesn't matter if she was lying down. She was unarmed, in her own home, and she was killed by police.

2. POLICE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO KILL GUILTY PEOPLE, EITHER. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A JUDICIARY SYSTEM. It's wild to me that you can justify the death of a woman by saying "sorry 'bout her luck, shouldn't have hung out with that one guy" as if it makes it okay.

That's the point. Associating with shady characters shouldn't be a death sentence.

There are supposed to be repercussions for 'Collateral Damage.' But the only reprimand that happened in this case was related to the bullets that strayed beyond her apartment.

 

[drayer54]

She got shot in her own home and died. No one is being held responsible for that.

You don't see this as a problem?

That's a pretty bare-bones and simplified version of what happened, no?

It's terrible, I agree. But Kentucky AG did a pretty flawless job explaining the law and how this applied yesterday.

 

[NorthDakota]

She got shot in her own home and died. No one is being held responsible for that.

You don't see this as a problem?

What little I read about it sounded more like a tragedy than anything else.

 

[IrishLion]

That's a pretty bare-bones and simplified version of what happened, no?

It's terrible, I agree. But Kentucky AG did a pretty flawless job explaining the law and how this applied yesterday.

Kentucky has already started making changes based on the incident, and all of the changes essentially point to "we fucked up and need to do better," and yet there is no responsibility being claimed for Breonna Taylor's life. That's extremely frustrating.

What little I read about it sounded more like a tragedy than anything else.

It absolutely was a tragedy, but should that absolve everyone of responsibility?

They already said her boyfriend was within his rights as a homeowner to fire upon supposed intruders. And I 100% understand why police fired back in the process of serving a warrant.

But 'it was an honest mistake' shouldn't mean there aren't repercussions for the loss of life.

 

[NorthDakota]

Kentucky has already started making changes based on the incident, and all of the changes essentially point to "we fucked up and need to do better," and yet there is no responsibility being claimed for Breonna Taylor's life. That's extremely frustrating.



It absolutely was a tragedy, but should that absolve everyone of responsibility?

They already said her boyfriend was within his rights as a homeowner to fire upon supposed intruders. And I 100% understand why police fired back in the process of serving a warrant.

But 'it was an honest mistake' shouldn't mean there aren't repercussions for the loss of life.

So the State is taking steps to try to prevent these sorts of things from happening? That's good and probably better than trying to get a pound of flesh from the cops who were the ones present.

What sort of responsibility do you want taken? If the police were just doing their jobs and didn't violate any laws or rules, I don't see why any would be charged with anything or be fired.

 

[GowerND11]

So the State is taking steps to try to prevent these sorts of things from happening? That's good and probably better than trying to get a pound of flesh from the cops who were the ones present.

What sort of responsibility do you want taken? If the police were just doing their jobs and didn't violate any laws or rules, I don't see why any would be charged with anything or be fired.

But they went to the wrong house, and killed an innocent woman. I'm not saying they deserve murder 1, but manslaughter seems awfully easy to charge here.

 

[NorthDakota]

But they went to the wrong house, and killed an innocent woman. I'm not saying they deserve murder 1, but manslaughter seems awfully easy to charge here.

My understanding is that they were at the right house, and her name was on the warrant.

 

[ACamp1900]

But they went to the wrong house, and killed an innocent woman. I'm not saying they deserve murder 1, but manslaughter seems awfully easy to charge here.

Wrong house??

 

[IrishLion]

My understanding is that they were at the right house, and her name was on the warrant.

Right House, but working on old information. They had newer information that had the guy they were looking for at a different location, AND he was already in custody when they went to Taylor's apartment anyway (and apparently had been in custody for weeks).

 

[IrishLax]

Remember, her family got $12 million, so while there isn't criminal justice they're getting police reform + civil compensation. Police reform is the most important thing to ensure this doesn't happen to someone else. With the laws on the books, it was extremely unlikely that anyone was going to be held accountable for shooting her.

What this underscores is why there needs to be policy changes to encourage good policing and accountability when there is bad policing. Reminds me of when South Bend cops beat and tazed the wrong dude sleeping in his bed because they thought he was someone else, and the family was awarded $18 ($1 each for 18 civil rights violations) because he didn't suffer any bad/permanent injuries. And because that cop wasn't held accountable, he then went on to have many more "mistakes" and acts of excessive force in the coming years becoming the poster child of bad policing and community mistrust in South Bend. If you don't hold people accountable for their actions, then they continue to be a cancer and it's only a matter of time until something else bad happens.

 

[GowerND11]

Right House, but working on old information. They had newer information that had the guy they were looking for at a different location, AND he was already in custody when they went to Taylor's apartment anyway (and apparently had been in custody for weeks).

This is what I meant. My bad.

 

[ab2cmiller]

But they went to the wrong house, and killed an innocent woman. I'm not saying they deserve murder 1, but manslaughter seems awfully easy to charge here.

Right House, but working on old information. They had newer information that had the guy they were looking for at a different location, AND he was already in custody when they went to Taylor's apartment anyway (and apparently had been in custody for weeks).

Wrong and wrong They were at the right house and they had belief that Taylor had connections to Glover.

FACT CHECK: Debunking 8 widely shared rumors in the Breonna Taylor police shooting

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

I suspect Lion has distilled Taylor's murder down accurately. You may well be aware of all the details. But I'll risk fleshing it out if Dakota won't. Louisville Metro Breona Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker heard the knock on the door, carried a licensed firearm, and did not hear any announcement of who they were by police. Eleven other witnesses said the police did not announce themselves.

Police contend they announced themselves then when there was no answer, broke down the door. Walker shot once hitting a cop in the leg after which there was the hail of gunfire by law enforcement of over thirty rounds. Walker was arrested and charged with attempted murder of a police officer, which he contends was intimidation. Walker's defense was Kentucky's Stand Your Ground law, clearly justifiable, but also the Castle Doctriine in defense of invasion of your home. Walker's criminal charge was dismissed.

Body cameras were worn by some of the Louisville Metro documented by after-incident photos. When those were subpoenaed, the LMPD said they did not exist. They would have determined if the police announced themselves. Police also said they originally obtained a no-knock warrant but changed it to a knock and announce search warrant.

The primary targets of the Louisville Metro PD investigation were Jamarcus Glover and Adrian Walker, who were suspected of selling controlled substances from a drug house more than 10 miles away. The apartment was Breona Taylor's. Police obtained the warrant by saying an unknown package, presumed to be drugs, and that this package went to Walker's address soon afterward, and was a known "drug apartment". No drugs were recovered.

This warrant states that this event was verified "through a US Postal Inspector.". The U.S. postal inspector in Louisville publicly announced that the collaboration with law enforcement had never actually occurred. In effect, this was an illegal raid obtained under false pretenses on an innocent, law-abiding person who was killed and whose boyfriend was acting within his rights.

Louisville has settled a lawsuit with Taylor's family for $12 million plus "none negotiable" police reforms. Five million of that will come from the Metro budget. Walker also has a lawsuit for $10.5 million, which presumably will also be settled.

https://www.wtvq.com/2020/09/15/louisville-to-announce-taylor-lawsuit-settlement-newspaper/

The reforms on Louisville Metro include a requirement commanders approve all search warrants before they go to a judge, housing credits to officers who agree to live within low-income areas, and drug and alcohol testing of officers involved in any shooting.

In addition, officers will be required to volunteer two hours every two weeks in the community, social service workers to accompany officers on certain calls, detailed reporting by the chief in officers’ personnel files, stricter protocols for seized funds, ad developing an early-warning system to spot potential problems with officers.

An interim Police Chief, who is black and female, has been appointed. She will be the troubled department's third chief since the March killing of Breonna Taylor. Whether any due diligence by Louisville Metro was done other than an unknown package was delivered such as observations by Police of drug activity, verification by witnesses of drugs, neighbors discreetly interviewed have never been reported. These as well as testimony from the officers and the PD would come out in any civil or criminal proceeding, which Louisville seems intent on avoiding.

Yeah, THIS IS A PROBLEM.

No, not a problem but an opportunity. Like the Michael Brown, Martin, Floyd, and other hand picked rare cases the media has seized upon to push an agenda. What that agenda is and who is pushing it? I don’t know but at minimum it is delegitimizing the law enforcement.

 

[NorthDakota]

Right House, but working on old information. They had newer information that had the guy they were looking for at a different location, AND he was already in custody when they went to Taylor's apartment anyway (and apparently had been in custody for weeks).

I had heard they had him in custody for like an hour or something. Also not sure it would matter even if he had been in custody for awhile, they were not there looking for him I dont think, weren't they there looking for drugs or some property of the guy?

 

[goldandblue]

Kentucky has already started making changes based on the incident, and all of the changes essentially point to "we fucked up and need to do better," and yet there is no responsibility being claimed for Breonna Taylor's life. That's extremely frustrating.



It absolutely was a tragedy, but should that absolve everyone of responsibility?

They already said her boyfriend was within his rights as a homeowner to fire upon supposed intruders. And I 100% understand why police fired back in the process of serving a warrant.

But 'it was an honest mistake' shouldn't mean there aren't repercussions for the loss of life.

So if your driving down the road and you check your mirrors and change lanes but clip someone that causes a wreck in which an occupant of the vehicle dies, Do you think you should go to prison? Your not drunk, your not on your cell phone, the car just happened to be in your blind spot during the lane change.

Or let's say you work the night shift, Your driving home from work. You accidentally fall asleep and hit someone head on. Do you deserve to go to prison? (This happened to a family member of mine)

Here is another instance. You take a 25 derringer out of your pocket and place it on the table. Dog comes by and bumps the table derringer falls off and goes off. Hits your little brother in the neck and kills him. Do you deserve to be in Prison? (As crazy as it sounds this happened in my small community)

What reprecussions are you looking for? There were reprecussions. They paid 12 million to the family for wrongful death.

 

[Irishize]

The link is a two-part series on Breonna Taylor. It gives you more background that dates back to how the police dept evolved from pulling over people on a known drug highway based on profiling (where they wrongly pulled over and harassed a valedictorian HS student who went out for a slurpee) to being more specific to avoid entrapping innocent citizens.

This truly is a tragedy. My beef w/ this interview from The NY Times is that they don’t point out that had Breonna disassociated w/ this thug that she’s alive today. When her friends & family were asked about Jarmarcus they got no comment or said they didn’t think Breonna should be around him.

It gives you the history of her most recent boyfriend...”the good guy” who obviously loved her & had her best interest in mind. I’m glad charges were dropped vs him as he did nothing unlawful that night. After a long surveillance (when Breonna was still seeing Jamarcus), the cops honed in on Breonna’s apt. Anyways, give it a listen (both parts) for some valid background info. I don’t know the proper actions for the police officers. It doesn’t sound like it was malicious but mistakes were made. Hopefully cooler minds prevail but I suspect Louisville will burn.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4asraY0uumRNqgNrUTmFfy

 

[NDRock]

Seems like most of these cop issues are systemic problems. There should be conversations about no knock warrants, civil forfeiture, militarization of the police force, using cops/court system as "tax collectors". As we know, these conversations can't be had because of political fighting.

As to this situation, I've not read much. Was the boyfriend some type of drug kingpin? She did go to work, why the need for a "no-knock warrant" in the middle of the night? Was the place not staked out? I'm not a big fan of 4th amendment overreach, which this seems like more than a race issue.

 

[Legacy]

It's a different situation if Walker died. He would have been found with a gun that had discharged injuring a policeman. She would have been collateral. Family would have mourned a daughter who was about to fulfill some career dreams. Eleven witnesses to the no-knock would have been marginalized. She should not have lived in a bad section of town where people deal drugs. She should have lived elsewhere. Settle with the family for with a few hundred thousand. No firing. No discipline. No changes.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Seems like most of these cop issues are systemic problems. There should be conversations about no knock warrants, civil forfeiture, militarization of the police force, using cops/court system as "tax collectors". As we know, these conversations can't be had because of political fighting.

As to this situation, I've not read much. Was the boyfriend some type of drug kingpin? She did go to work, why the need for a "no-knock warrant" in the middle of the night? Was the place not staked out? I'm not a big fan of 4th amendment overreach, which this seems like more than a race issue.

Ex Boyfriend who she continued to have interactions, some of which were suspicious.

Definitely concerns over why a No Knock warrant was obtained. Seems like it was almost boiler plate to obtain a No Knock on anything revolving a drug investigation.

 

[Irish#1]

Right House, but working on old information. They had newer information that had the guy they were looking for at a different location, AND he was already in custody when they went to Taylor's apartment anyway (and apparently had been in custody for weeks).

This is what makes this so bad. You would think that someone would review all pertinent data prior to going out. Then they would have known he was in custody and if they did and it didn't show him in custody, fix the system.

Remember, her family got $12 million, so while there isn't criminal justice they're getting police reform + civil compensation. Police reform is the most important thing to ensure this doesn't happen to someone else. With the laws on the books, it was extremely unlikely that anyone was going to be held accountable for shooting her.

What this underscores is why there needs to be policy changes to encourage good policing and accountability when there is bad policing. Reminds me of when South Bend cops beat and tazed the wrong dude sleeping in his bed because they thought he was someone else, and the family was awarded $18 ($1 each for 18 civil rights violations) because he didn't suffer any bad/permanent injuries. And because that cop wasn't held accountable, he then went on to have many more "mistakes" and acts of excessive force in the coming years becoming the poster child of bad policing and community mistrust in South Bend. If you don't hold people accountable for their actions, then they continue to be a cancer and it's only a matter of time until something else bad happens.

I would imagine that there are thousands of procedures that need to be rewritten with better checks and balances to reduce these instances. There's also no place for cowboy cops who stretch their authority.

 

[EddytoNow]

So if your driving down the road and you check your mirrors and change lanes but clip someone that causes a wreck in which an occupant of the vehicle dies, Do you think you should go to prison? Your not drunk, your not on your cell phone, the car just happened to be in your blind spot during the lane change.

If you repeated that over 30 times, yes.

Or let's say you work the night shift, Your driving home from work. You accidentally fall asleep and hit someone head on. Do you deserve to go to prison? (This happened to a family member of mine)

If you repeatedly fall asleep over 30 times, yes.

Here is another instance. You take a 25 derringer out of your pocket and place it on the table. Dog comes by and bumps the table derringer falls off and goes off. Hits your little brother in the neck and kills him. Do you deserve to be in Prison? (As crazy as it sounds this happened in my small community)

If you allow the dog to do that over 30 times, yes.

What reprecussions are you looking for? There were reprecussions. They paid 12 million to the family for wrongful death.

The taxpayers paid the family 12 million dollars. The three police officers involved suffered no consequences despite firing over 30 rounds, several of which struck an innocent woman in her own apartment. The indictment was for firing a shot into a white neighbor's apartment.

 

[Irish#1]

Ex Boyfriend who she continued to have interactions, some of which were suspicious.

Definitely concerns over why a No Knock warrant was obtained. Seems like it was almost boiler plate to obtain a No Knock on anything revolving a drug investigation.

Given the history of drug dealers being armed, I would imagine it is standard procedure so the drug dealers don't have a chance to start shooting.

Maybe they do a siege. Turn off the water, electricity, wait until they run out of food and booze and finally surrender.

 

[NDRock]

Given the history of drug dealers being armed, I would imagine it is standard procedure so the drug dealers don't have a chance to start shooting.

Maybe they do a siege. Turn off the water, electricity, wait until they run out of food and booze and finally surrender.

I'd imagine there are other options. Seems more likely of a shootout when the cops knock down a door at 2 a.m. as this case shows.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Given the history of drug dealers being armed, I would imagine it is standard procedure so the drug dealers don't have a chance to start shooting.

Maybe they do a siege. Turn off the water, electricity, wait until they run out of food and booze and finally surrender.

I'd imagine there are other options. Seems more likely of a shootout when the cops knock down a door at 2 a.m. as this case shows.

I found this article helpful in regards to No Knock warrants.

It's fairly obvious that the Taylor warrant was a fringe target and not much was expected, thus why they were informed to go ahead and knock even though it was a No Knock warrant. Which leads to the question, why was a No Knock warrant obtained.

https://reason.com/2020/06/21/was-the-search-warrant-for-the-drug-raid-that-killed-breonna-taylor-illegal/

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm not going to post it all but recent evidence that has come out show she was an active participant in Glover's life. Dating from 2016, when she borrowed a rental car to him, that someone was murdered in. To the day before the warrant was executed, texting him when the shit was going to come through.

This is not intended to justify the killing but the context is important as the lawyer and media just lied about so much from the beginning.

 

[Irishize]

I found this article helpful in regards to No Knock warrants.

It's fairly obvious that the Taylor warrant was a fringe target and not much was expected, thus why they were informed to go ahead and knock even though it was a No Knock warrant. Which leads to the question, why was a No Knock warrant obtained.

https://reason.com/2020/06/21/was-the-search-warrant-for-the-drug-raid-that-killed-breonna-taylor-illegal/

Thanks for sharing that link. I’ve provided another link from today’s NY Times reporting that contradicts what some have claimed. There are witnesses to the fact that police knocked & announced themselves. Walker also was cited in this reporting as hearing the knocks. Maybe he couldn’t hear the cops announcing themselves & the cops couldn’t hear Walker replying “who’s there?”. The AG was in a tough spot legally.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0AeFOzfuZHnc2fEtnP76gp

 

[NDRock]

I'm not going to post it all but recent evidence that has come out show she was an active participant in Glover's life. Dating from 2016, when she borrowed a rental car to him, that someone was murdered in. To the day before the warrant was executed, texting him when the shit was going to come through.

This is not intended to justify the killing but the context is important as the lawyer and media just lied about so much from the beginning.

Seems like her being part of an investigation was legit and getting a warrant was also fine. I'm just not a fan of cops going Seal Team 6 on someone who at most is an accessory. Especially in an apartment setting where things can go bad for innocent people.

 

[goldandblue]

The taxpayers paid the family 12 million dollars. The three police officers involved suffered no consequences despite firing over 30 rounds, several of which struck an innocent woman in her own apartment. The indictment was for firing a shot into a white neighbor's apartment.

Did you miss my point? They question was asked if in fact it was an honest mistake, why weren't there any repercussions? There was. 12 Million dollars worth. The cops were doing the job they were tasked to do. They were fired upon. They fired back neutralizing the threat. It is sad and unfortunate that Breonna Taylor was caught in the crossfire. Hindsight is always 2020. It looks as though the State is trying to make changes to their policies and procedures so that this doesn't happen again.

You have to kinda put yourself in their position I believe. Warrant being served late on a drug case. These particular officers may or may have not really known anything about the case. It's likely they were briefed before leaving to execute the warrant. Were probably told that the suspects could be armed and dangerous. Suspect shoots. They shoot. All this is probably happening in a poorly lit apartment. That is an assumption since it was late at night. One would think that if it was lit, The boyfriend would have not shot at the officers to begin with and not mistaken them for possible intruders.

 

[Luckylucci]

Seems like her being part of an investigation was legit and getting a warrant was also fine. I'm just not a fan of cops going Seal Team 6 on someone who at most is an accessory. Especially in an apartment setting where things can go bad for innocent people.

Understood and I completely agree that I think these things can and should be handled better. However, at the time of executing the warrant they do not know what is going on inside each of these houses. Or where all the guns, drugs, and cash are. And, at the house Glover was found, they found 8 guns. So, after the fact, it's easy to say well they didn't find anything at her house they should have handled it differently.