Police State USA

tommyIRISH23

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Most CAF returns to the police. Depends on state, city, etc.. And a lot is seized without any charges being filed. Some is never even reported, and some is seized using sketchy local law.

Here's a decent read if you have time.

https://pulitzercenter.org/reportin...-school-how-police-use-civil-asset-forfeiture

What?!? That is absurd. If i make a mistake and am off by $10.00 on my count I get questioned lol.

Money is kept and seized with no charges? Let alone a conviction? I agree. That has to change. Where I am at, money is kept only on conviction. If theres no conviction the money is returned.
 

tommyIRISH23

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I'm fine with enforcement of law. All I would like to see is consistency. I'm also fine with documented warnings when folks are allowed to slide.

I posted a link on AF. I think it's very locale dependent.

Yeah just saw that. Thats crazy. Thats a local/state law that needs to be overturned or repealed. Thats wild.

And to the bodycams, yeah. I also dont think cops should be wasting time in high crime areas processing/ticketing/arresting people for peeing on the side of a tree. Arresting people takes hours. Its not a quick process. Those issues should be handled internally though. Supervisors should understand that in a area where armed robberies are rampant, the guy peeing isnt a threat.
 

Irish YJ

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What?!? That is absurd. If i make a mistake and am off by $10.00 on my count I get questioned lol.

Money is kept and seized with no charges? Let alone a conviction? I agree. That has to change. Where I am at, money is kept only on conviction. If theres no conviction the money is returned.

Yep. Seems just really wacky and inconsistently applied. This is a good example of something that really needs a federal law to govern how things are done and managed.

Yeah just saw that. Thats crazy. Thats a local/state law that needs to be overturned or repealed. Thats wild.

And to the bodycams, yeah. I also dont think cops should be wasting time in high crime areas processing/ticketing/arresting people for peeing on the side of a tree. Arresting people takes hours. Its not a quick process. Those issues should be handled internally though. Supervisors should understand that in a area where armed robberies are rampant, the guy peeing isnt a threat.

I'd be perfectly fine with letting folks slide on silly stuff. Just write them a warning ticket to document stuff, and leave. All I want is consistency and accountability. The big thing is though, it would curb the bad behavior. I have a lot of fire fighters and cops in my extended family, and some of the stuff that I hear is just crazy.

A little off topic, but what also needs to be addressed in the criminal justice system is inflated charges. That spans both the police and the prosecutors.
 

tommyIRISH23

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Yep. Seems just really wacky and inconsistently applied. This is a good example of something that really needs a federal law to govern how things are done and managed.



I'd be perfectly fine with letting folks slide on silly stuff. Just write them a warning ticket to document stuff, and leave. All I want is consistency and accountability. The big thing is though, it would curb the bad behavior. I have a lot of fire fighters and cops in my extended family, and some of the stuff that I hear is just crazy.

A little off topic, but what also needs to be addressed in the criminal justice system is inflated charges. That spans both the police and the prosecutors.

NJ is pretty good with charging, they don't over-charge really but they charge enough to cover the crime. Sometimes having a few charges is needed. For example, someone shoots someone and kills them in a robbery. You want to charge murder, weapons violations, and robbery. It covers the whole story of the crime and, if god forbid the murder charge is murky for some reason, a jury has other options with the robbery and weapons offenses that fit the crime. But I get what I think you mean, for a example a clear drug addict who has 4 bags of heroin and is charged with distribution.
 

Irish#1

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You go girl. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CheesecakeFactory?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CheesecakeFactory</a> <a href="https://t.co/a49GM5hhFr">pic.twitter.com/a49GM5hhFr</a></p>— DepressYvesStLauren (@Kaione) <a href="https://twitter.com/Kaione/status/1267250708505640962?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

unclear? lol
 

Irish YJ

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NJ is pretty good with charging, they don't over-charge really but they charge enough to cover the crime. Sometimes having a few charges is needed. For example, someone shoots someone and kills them in a robbery. You want to charge murder, weapons violations, and robbery. It covers the whole story of the crime and, if god forbid the murder charge is murky for some reason, a jury has other options with the robbery and weapons offenses that fit the crime. But I get what I think you mean, for a example a clear drug addict who has 4 bags of heroin and is charged with distribution.

There's horizontal and vertical overcharging. You're talking more about vertical. Overcharging goes hand and hand with plea bargaining abuses. It's all a game. My cousin who was LE for a few decades said the most frequent overcharge is adding resisting arrest to just about everything. And prosecutors lay on vert and horiz to get guilty plea bargains.
 

Irish YJ

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One of the people murdered last night was a retired St. Louis City Captain. He was murdered by looters at a pawnshop. He was the type of brother that would’ve given his life to save them if he had to. <br><br>Violence is not the answer, whether it’s a citizen or officer. <br><br>RIP Captain!</p>— Ethical Society of Police - ESOP (@ESOP_STL) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESOP_STL/status/1267797020540010496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Bishop2b5

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Beau, so I just saw a social media interaction. Person A states we need to stop grouping everyone differently and view everyone the same. Person B chimes in “We will treat everyone the same once our police stop looking at blacks as easy targets. They refuse to tho so now they’re the targets!! I say good.’

And that’s why you have the statistical data and ‘yeah buts’ being thrown out. Really, regardless of anything person A says, person B is justifying violence over a false pretense. And guess who got the overwhelming majority of likes and support in the thread,... maybe if we had more of a moderate, broader view of the realities we all face we wouldn’t have this mass of ‘let’s get em!!!’. Trying to get to that place however is also attacked,... This is just crazy towns.

This is a direct (and very intentional) result of training the past couple of generations to be emotional thinkers instead of rational thinkers. They've been taught that their feelings about issues are much more important than the facts of any issue. If you feel that "X" is true, then that's all that matters. No amount of logic, facts, or anything else to the contrary matters. Manipulating such emotional thinkers is easy. They can no longer separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, when it comes to ideas and facts and information. They readily buy into any narrative that's pushed hard enough, as they can no longer discern fact from fiction, and all that matters is how the narrative makes them feel, not whether it's factual. It's hard to reason with such people and find solutions or common ground when reality and facts have no relevance to them.
 
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tommyIRISH23

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This is a direct (and very intentional) result of training the past couple of generations to be emotional thinkers instead of rational thinkers. They've been taught that their feelings about issues are much more important than the facts of any issue. If you feel that "X" is true, then that's all that matters. No amount of logic, facts, or anything else to the contrary matters. Manipulating such emotional thinkers is easy. They can no longer separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, when it comes to ideas and facts and information. They readily buy into any narrative that pushed hard enough, as they can no longer discern fact from fiction, and all that matters is how the narrative makes them feel, not whether it's factual. It's hard to reason with such people and find solutions or common ground when reality and facts have no relevance to them.

Props on the post. its terrifying.
 

BeauBenken

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Beau, so I just saw a social media interaction. Person A states we need to stop grouping everyone differently and view everyone the same. Person B chimes in “We will treat everyone the same once our police stop looking at blacks as easy targets. They refuse to tho so now they’re the targets!! I say good.’

And that’s why you have the statistical data and ‘yeah buts’ being thrown out. Really, regardless of anything person A says, person B is justifying violence over a false pretense. And guess who got the overwhelming majority of likes and support in the thread,... maybe if we had more of a moderate, broader view of the realities we all face we wouldn’t have this mass of ‘let’s get em!!!’. Trying to get to that place however is also attacked,... This is just crazy towns.


An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind is all I can say. Those who continue to seek violence in order to solve violence are hardly thinking rationally or for destined for an actual positive outcome to all of this.
 

irishff1014

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Beau, so I just saw a social media interaction. Person A states we need to stop grouping everyone differently and view everyone the same. Person B chimes in “We will treat everyone the same once our police stop looking at blacks as easy targets. They refuse to tho so now they’re the targets!! I say good.’

And that’s why you have the statistical data and ‘yeah buts’ being thrown out. Really, regardless of anything person A says, person B is justifying violence over a false pretense. And guess who got the overwhelming majority of likes and support in the thread,... maybe if we had more of a moderate, broader view of the realities we all face we wouldn’t have this mass of ‘let’s get em!!!’. Trying to get to that place however is also attacked,... This is just crazy towns.

And this is where the people making comment don't know enough knowledge and the politicians leave the police out to dry. Prime example Freddie Gray. The police got a wrath of hell for being there even though politicians and the States Attorney ask them to frequent the area more due to the drug problems. You don't have to figure out how the rest of these stories go. Then they see suspicious activity, then they pull on the subject and they run or man i ain't doing anything. Then come the interaction part and some cops go over board and most do what they are supposed too.
 

TorontoGold

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This is a direct (and very intentional) result of training the past couple of generations to be emotional thinkers instead of rational thinkers. They've been taught that their feelings about issues are much more important than the facts of any issue. If you feel that "X" is true, then that's all that matters. No amount of logic, facts, or anything else to the contrary matters. Manipulating such emotional thinkers is easy. They can no longer separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, when it comes to ideas and facts and information. They readily buy into any narrative that pushed hard enough, as they can no longer discern fact from fiction, and all that matters is how the narrative makes them feel, not whether it's factual. It's hard to reason with such people and find solutions or common ground when reality and facts have no relevance to them.

I certainly agree with the sentiment of this post. But, the blame being placed on the kids often should be directed at the parents for raising their kids like that.
 

Sea Turtle

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There is new video that shows the Louisville protester fired at the policemen first.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Joe Biden is reportedly going to the funeral of George Floyd. Nothing wrong with that. My question is which Democrats will be attending the funerals of the innocent cops who have been murdered in the past few days?
 

Bishop2b5

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I certainly agree with the sentiment of this post. But, the blame being placed on the kids often should be directed at the parents for raising their kids like that.

It's the fault of the schools, the parents, the entertainment industry, and the media. They've intellectually neutered a couple of generations, creating a public that can be easily maneuvered and manipulated, and will fall for whatever narrative tugs at their heartstrings and tells them what they want to hear, versus tells them the truth. Try having a rational, factual conversation with most people. They can't. Their arguments are almost completely emotion-driven and devoid of any logical thought. Trying to reason with them is like trying to discuss calculus with a cat.
 

ACamp1900

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It's the fault of the schools, the parents, the entertainment industry, and the media. They've intellectually neutered a couple of generations, creating a public that can be easily maneuvered and manipulated, and will fall for whatever narrative tugs at their heartstrings and tells them what they want to hear, versus tells them the truth. Try having a rational, factual conversation with most people. They can't. Their arguments are almost completely emotion-driven and devoid of any logical thought. Trying to reason with them is like trying to discuss calculus with a cat.

Your generation did it all stupid boomer,... millennials and z’s are charmin soft now. I’m lucky you bastards didn’t get power enough to neuter us X’ers. We are the only real ones left now. It’s like the Dawn of the Dead out here,.........
 
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Irish YJ

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There is new video that shows the Louisville protester fired at the policemen first.

hard to tell what's going on in either vid. In the second clip, you can see the police launch tear gas, then a few seconds later the cops run for cover as if someone shot at them. That's when they start shooting towards the door of the BBQ joint. No audio so it's hard to make out much.

<iframe width="500" height="300" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wDg9fev67lw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Irish YJ

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NDRock

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This is a direct (and very intentional) result of training the past couple of generations to be emotional thinkers instead of rational thinkers. They've been taught that their feelings about issues are much more important than the facts of any issue. If you feel that "X" is true, then that's all that matters. No amount of logic, facts, or anything else to the contrary matters. Manipulating such emotional thinkers is easy. They can no longer separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, when it comes to ideas and facts and information. They readily buy into any narrative that pushed hard enough, as they can no longer discern fact from fiction, and all that matters is how the narrative makes them feel, not whether it's factual. It's hard to reason with such people and find solutions or common ground when reality and facts have no relevance to them.

That and throw in the idea that we can’t even agree on facts. Nowadays it’s hard to even have a debate because one or both sides think the facts are “fake news”. Facts are only real if it comes from a source you believe. We’re doomed.
 

Irish YJ

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An interesting Harvard study. Roland Gerhard Fryer Jr. is an American economist. In 2007, at age 30, he became the youngest African-American to ever receive tenure at Harvard.

A report by Harvard’s Roland Fryer shows that when the cops pull back, homicides increase.

How do you root out bad cops without changing the behavior of good cops?

That’s a question explored in a forthcoming academic paper on policing the police by Harvard economist Roland Fryer and co-author Tanaya Devi. Given the current nationwide protests and mob violence ignited by the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, it’s a subject on the minds of many.

In 2016 Mr. Fryer released a study of racial differences in police use of deadly force. To the surprise of the author, as well as many in the media and on the left who take racist law enforcement as a given, he found no evidence of bias in police shootings. His conclusions have been echoed by researchers at the University of Maryland and Michigan State University, who in a paper released last year wrote: “We didn’t find evidence for anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity in police use of force across all shootings, and, if anything, found anti-White disparities when controlling for race-specific crime.

Mr. Fryer stated in an interview that the brand new paper is an extension of his earlier analysis. Though it appeared clear to him that racial disparities in police shootings stemmed primarily from racial disparities in prison conduct, police departments continued to be investigated, and he suspected these investigations weren’t having the meant impact. In actual fact, he observed what he suspected was a sample that warranted additional research. After surveying greater than two dozen federal and state probes of police departments throughout the nation, the sample turned clear. When police had been investigated following incidents of lethal drive that had gone viral, police exercise declined and violent crime spiked. It occurred in Ferguson, Mo., after Michael Brown was shot by an officer. It occurred in Chicago after a cop gunned down Laquan McDonald. And it occurred in Baltimore after Freddie Grey died in police custody.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-policing-saves-black-lives-11591052916

If you don't have WSJ sub...
https://apkmetro.com/good-policing-saves-black-lives/
 

irishff1014

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I feel bad for the city of Minneapolis they are going to lose all the good cops that do work there. University on Minnesota and the school district has canceled the police security jobs. That means not many opportunities for overtime and I imagine that they are underpaid. So now the police is only gonna get worse.
 

tommyIRISH23

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An interesting Harvard study. Roland Gerhard Fryer Jr. is an American economist. In 2007, at age 30, he became the youngest African-American to ever receive tenure at Harvard.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-policing-saves-black-lives-11591052916

If you don't have WSJ sub...
https://apkmetro.com/good-policing-saves-black-lives/


Nice research. A professor from John Jay (should be noted- not conservative) came up with very similar findings that when crime rates are thrown into the equation, bias disappears. Thats never taught though or the methodology is attacked. My thesis advisor, who also happened to be the prof for my last class, always taught both sides of the argument. He gave us a book to read that really shredded the war on drug/ mass incarceration argument. The book was peer reviewed and widely accepted, not a fringe right-wing publication. Its been over a year and I forget the exact argument/stats but i believe that he showed that a lot of the stats about mass incarcerations' were duplicated in some way. Like the people that were counted in the "standard narrative" (thats what he author called it), were counted multiple times and for crimes that had nothing to do with drugs. It was an interesting read...the sad part of it was 1/2 the class refused to discuss the arguments or the findings because "it was false propaganda". 1/2 the class blatantly said they didn't read past the first chapter because "it goes against everything we know to be true and have been taught.". No one could give a counter argument.

The students got really irritated and the professor tried to spark discussion by saying you have to discuss ideas that make you uncomfortable. 1/2 the students sat there not talking when called on. Very pathetic.
 

Bluto

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That and throw in the idea that we can’t even agree on facts. Nowadays it’s hard to even have a debate because one or both sides think the facts are “fake news”. Facts are only real if it comes from a source you believe. We’re doomed.

We might well be if we don’t come around on the facts regarding climate change.
 

Irish YJ

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Nice research. A professor from John Jay (should be noted- not conservative) came up with very similar findings that when crime rates are thrown into the equation, bias disappears. Thats never taught though or the methodology is attacked. My thesis advisor, who also happened to be the prof for my last class, always taught both sides of the argument. He gave us a book to read that really shredded the war on drug/ mass incarceration argument. The book was peer reviewed and widely accepted, not a fringe right-wing publication. Its been over a year and I forget the exact argument/stats but i believe that he showed that a lot of the stats about mass incarcerations' were duplicated in some way. Like the people that were counted in the "standard narrative" (thats what he author called it), were counted multiple times and for crimes that had nothing to do with drugs. It was an interesting read...the sad part of it was 1/2 the class refused to discuss the arguments or the findings because "it was false propaganda". 1/2 the class blatantly said they didn't read past the first chapter because "it goes against everything we know to be true and have been taught.". No one could give a counter argument.

The students got really irritated and the professor tried to spark discussion by saying you have to discuss ideas that make you uncomfortable. 1/2 the students sat there not talking when called on. Very pathetic.

Yep. Too many people brainwashed these days...

I've seen several studies on incarceration. There's a ton of data out there that blows up a lot of narratives. The left simply ignores it. And what is funny, there have been some good articles about the myths published by some left sources like you said.

Here's a few
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2019.html

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/30/15591700/mass-incarceration-john-pfaff-locked-in

There's a better one (actual study), but I can't remember enough to find it via google. I'll try a bit later.
 

Irish YJ

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YJ posted an article from Vanity Fair...the final horseman has arrived....lol.

Come on man... I publish a lot of lefty links. Especially in reply to Legacy so he can't dis the source lol.....
 

Irish YJ

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Mass. AG, yes, the person responsible for law and order, says sometimes it takes a city burning for the forest to grow.... Wonder what her thoughts would be if some rioters decided to visit her gated neighborhood and grant her wish... good lord how dumb.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Yes, America is burning," says <a href="https://twitter.com/MassAGO?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MassAGO</a> Maura Healey, "but that's how forests grow."<br><br>What a foul, reckless thing for anyone to say, let alone an attorney general. People are dying in these riots. Families are being ruined. And Healey cheers? Despicable.<a href="https://t.co/3JfvupKBOl">https://t.co/3JfvupKBOl</a></p>— Jeff Jacoby (@Jeff_Jacoby) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jeff_Jacoby/status/1267893928868667392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 2, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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