Police State USA

[ACamp1900]

I am literally just trying to say that people need to stop thinking that being in favor of the advancement of black people in our country is somehow anti-white or any other color. People's focus stops being about why does police violence occur and go unpunished and instead starts being about "blacks aren't killed at that alarming of a rate when you really look at things" or "what's wrong with saying all lives matter?" What is the purpose of those questions and ideas at this time? They only serve, whether intentionally or not, as a way to make this all seem like "not that big of a deal" and detract from the main message: there are systemic issues with our police.



Like, I get it. I think everyone gets it. Almost everyone on this board is not in favor of looting and rioting. But a lot of people never make it clear if they are in favor of a systemic police reform. And even if they go "yea, those guys were clearly bad and they deserve punishment" they then like to divert to topics like I mentioned above. Why?



Seriously, Koon raised more of a stink and more people bought into it about the moderators of a free message board being able to determine punishments for each other more than people on this board seem to care that police often investigate themselves and find no wrong doing.

The top dynamic occurs because we are told those things ARE in fact that way. When celebs go out there and say things like ‘blacks are being hunted daily’ or When we are told ‘hands up don’t shoot’ happened when we pretty much know now that it did not people are going to chime in on that. That doesn’t make them race obsessed,... it means they may smell what they’re being sold. It also doesn’t invalidate an entire argument on any side either but,... In other words it’s difficult to address anything in a racially centric conversation without addressing racial components. That doesn’t make one racist or ignorant. If that’s the focus then that’s the focus.

 

[BeauBenken]

The top dynamic occurs because we are told those things ARE in fact that way. When celebs go out there and say things like ‘blacks are being hunted daily’ or When we are told ‘hands up don’t shoot’ happened when we pretty much know now that it did not people are going to chime in on that. That doesn’t make them race obsessed,... it means they smell what they’re being sold.

Yea, but why do so many people only chime in on that and not on the fact that people are being killed? Some people seem to be so sure to bring up the cases where a violent force may have been necessary but they won't acknowledge the times where it probably should not have been used. Like, unless you're a police officer who is wanting to maintain the status quo, why try to detract from a movement that is seeking a positive change?

 

[ACamp1900]

Yea, but why do so many people only chime in on that and not on the fact that people are being killed? Some people seem to be so sure to bring up the cases where a violent force may have been necessary but they won't acknowledge the times where it probably should not have been used. Like, unless you're a police officer who is wanting to maintain the status quo, why try to detract from a movement that is seeking a positive change?

I get your point but I guess my thoughts are they aren’t TRYING to distract,... like I myself brought up stats earlier. My intent wasn’t to blind the issue but to bring it more to focus and tone down the rhetoric.

 

[Irish#1]

Does change need to happen? Yes. it does. We need better training, better hiring process-we need to do everything we can to make sure another Chauvin never wears a uniform again. Psych tests every 3 years and rotations out of bad neighborhoods. We add trainings, diversity seminars, de-escalation seminars, implicit bias ( its sounds nice no matter how often the theory fails scientific tests of reliability). The list can go on. Citing statistics in very dangerous. Theres always been a major gap between academia and reality. Statistics capture a small glimpse of the total picture.

Agree I made a post yesterday that there needs to be better screening (psychological) during the interviewing process to identify those candidates that could potentially exceed their authority or step outside of normal procedures. I know in Indy there's a lot of training that happens after they are on the force, but it can probably be adjusted.

 

[BeauBenken]

I get your point but I guess my thoughts are they aren’t TRYING to distract,... like I myself brought up stats earlier. My intent wasn’t to blind the issue but to being it to focus and tone down the rhetoric..

Right. And I believe that. I just think it can detract from it all.



Like I said, I believe it is only SOME people who do this intentionally to diminish the message. That is always very discouraging. But I believe that's why people want to see moderates and genuine questioners to agree with their side. The moderates hold most of the political power for change in this country. If the message is questioned by moderates, there will be no change. If the average citizen agrees with the message (the real message) though, change will occur.



I have been more active in these politics threads than ever before so I will say now, I hope no one here thinks I think little of them or that their ideas, points, and opinions don't matter to me or that I harbor ill feelings towards anyone. I usually avoid political discussions not because I don't have an opinion but because I appreciate being able to get along with everyone. Hope everyone in here knows that I intend to get along with everyone still!

 

[Irish#1]

Yea, but why do so many people only chime in on that and not on the fact that people are being killed? Some people seem to be so sure to bring up the cases where a violent force may have been necessary but they won't acknowledge the times where it probably should not have been used. Like, unless you're a police officer who is wanting to maintain the status quo, why try to detract from a movement that is seeking a positive change?

The police aren't trying to detract from the movement. It's the rioters who are destroying property and killing people. I'm sure there are a few, but going from my experience with policemen I've spoken to, the vast majority are in favor of change if it makes things safer for everybody.

I have been more active in these politics threads than ever before so I will say now, I hope no one here thinks I think little of them or that their ideas, points, and opinions don't matter to me or that I harbor ill feelings towards anyone. I usually avoid political discussions not because I don't have an opinion but because I appreciate being able to get along with everyone. Hope everyone in here knows that I intend to get along with everyone still!

I noticed you've been more active and I appreciate your input.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Yea, but why do so many people only chime in on that and not on the fact that people are being killed? Some people seem to be so sure to bring up the cases where a violent force may have been necessary but they won't acknowledge the times where it probably should not have been used. Like, unless you're a police officer who is wanting to maintain the status quo, why try to detract from a movement that is seeking a positive change?

My gripe is that the "stats" and mantra that the media has been stoking for years which led to this are a mere glimpse of the actual problem. Calling all cops racist is an easy cop-out to much bigger and complex social problems caused by decades of racism, bad/tragic/dangerous policy to make up for racism, and political pandering by the elite politicians. Both parties have enacted policies in seemingly good will that have led to minority communities collapsing, social structures failing, and education has failed which has led to frightening levels of crime, specifically violent crime, in minority communities. Violent crime in these communities is a nightmare and over a generation people living in these communities have become desensitized to it. Cops are put in place to stop violent crime in directed patrols because if they don't, the narrative is society/cops dont care about protecting minority neighborhoods. As i stated in previous posts, high violent crime rates are strong influencers of police use of deadly force. I know this because I did the study, collected the data, and did the research. In other words, put yourself in a position where youre walking in a dark alley responding to a citizen called gun report. That area of the city has decades of documented incidents of homicide and armed robberies. You come across someone with a gun and theyre pointing it at you. Then what?

My point isnt to absolve cops. Cops souls arent clean. But indicting every man and woman who the vast majority of want to serve and help people is not just unproductive, it's missing the mark on the issues that matter. If we want to have a legitimate discussion about ending death, violence, and cop shootings...why don't we have a legitimate discussion about why cops are even there? What policies have we enacted and/or didnt enact that caused the destruction of communities?

 

[ab2cmiller]

I read a while back the some nations require a 4 year degree to work a police force. We def need a better way of screening and weeding out,...

Unfortunately, the union makes this close to impossible.

 

[Wild Bill]

I am literally just trying to say that people need to stop thinking that being in favor of the advancement of black people in our country is somehow anti-white or any other color. People's focus stops being about why does police violence occur and go unpunished and instead starts being about "blacks aren't killed at that alarming of a rate when you really look at things" or "what's wrong with saying all lives matter?" What is the purpose of those questions and ideas at this time? They only serve, whether intentionally or not, as a way to make this all seem like "not that big of a deal" and detract from the main message: there are systemic issues with our police.

Like, I get it. I think everyone gets it. Almost everyone on this board is not in favor of looting and rioting. But a lot of people never make it clear if they are in favor of a systemic police reform. And even if they go "yea, those guys were clearly bad and they deserve punishment" they then like to divert to topics like I mentioned above. Why?

Seriously, Koon raised more of a stink and more people bought into it about the moderators of a free message board being able to determine punishments for each other more than people on this board seem to care that police often investigate themselves and find no wrong doing.

I agree, owning people with stats and logic is senseless if used to justify a misuse of power. Those same stats and logic are useful in pushing back on the current narrative, and if they were used properly we could probably avoid these eruptions of violence while simultaneously holding police accountable.

 

[Irish YJ]

Cuomo is now criticizing De Blasio and the NYPD.... Purely my opinion... De Blasio certainly deserves criticism, but the NYPD are overwhelmed. De Blasio's 11pm curfew was way to late, and he's made a lot of other bonehead moves. But Cuomo hasn't allowed the NG to come in and help. They're on standby.....

Cuomo also claims ability to displace de Blasio. Does that mean Trump can displace Cuomo lol

The NG presence in ATL was a huge help. IMO, Cuomo doesn't want them to help just because Trump said he should...

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Cuomo is now criticizing De Blasio and the NYPD.... Purely my opinion... De Blasio certainly deserves criticism, but the NYPD are overwhelmed. De Blasio's 11pm curfew was way to late, and he's made a lot of other bonehead moves. But Cuomo hasn't allowed the NG to come in and help. They're on standby.....

The NG presence in ATL was a huge help. IMO, Cuomo doesn't want them to help just because Trump said he should...

De Blasio is as impotent of a human being who has ever lived. How he is the mayor of New York City blows my mind. I cant even say that he is playing politics, he sincerely believes in his ideologies and convictions. This is what happens when a left-wing academic/community organizer cons his way into power with his severly misguided utopian vision of socialist activism. Imagine if he were president? Jesus

 

[Irish YJ]

De Blasio is as impotent of a human being who has ever lived. How he is the mayor of New York City blows my mind. I cant even say that he is playing politics, he sincerely believes in his ideologies and convictions. This is what happens when a left-wing academic/community organizer cons his way into power with his severly misguided utopian vision of socialist activism. Imagine if he were president? Jesus

Both Cuomo and de Blasio are clowns. I have to admit I was impressed with Cuomo's first couple of Covid pressers, but he quickly turned into the same guy that loves the sound of his own voice. Then the boneheaded moves that killed a bunch of folks in care homes. His screaming about ventilators and other stuff, then doesn't use any of the temp facilities built for NY.

 

[BeauBenken]

The police aren't trying to detract from the movement. It's the rioters who are destroying property and killing people. I'm sure there are a few, but going from my experience with policemen I've spoken to, the vast majority are in favor of change if it makes things safer for everybody.

I noticed you've been more active and I appreciate your input.

I agree in that I have not seen any police officers actively speaking against the movement. And in a post I made on social media, I mentioned how I have great respect and admiration for most of our officers. My point was just I don't see how anyone can be against improving our police system so that there could be less human lives lost other than hypothetical corrupt police officers.


Thank you though. I appreciate that the thread from what I have seen has been productive and without insults considering how easily this type of topic can become heated.

My point isnt to absolve cops. Cops souls arent clean. But indicting every man and woman who the vast majority of want to serve and help people is not just unproductive, it's missing the mark on the issues that matter. If we want to have a legitimate discussion about ending death, violence, and cop shootings...why don't we have a legitimate discussion about why cops are even there? What policies have we enacted and/or didnt enact that caused the destruction of communities?

This I think is a fair take. Is it possible though that the creation and use of a police force in America though is one of the reasons for issues in those communities?

I agree, owning people with stats and logic is senseless if used to justify a misuse of power. Those same stats and logic are useful in pushing back on the current narrative, and if they were used properly we could probably avoid these eruptions of violence while simultaneously holding police accountable.

I'm all for that!

 

[yankeehater]

I read a while back the some nations require a 4 year degree to work a police force. We def need a better way of screening and weeding out,...

Maybe it is where I live, but probably 80% of the police I know have college degrees. Probably because they were all athletes both college and professionally.

 

[yankeehater]

Went to local grocery store this morning and it was being boarded up. Guess they are expecting more peaceful protests this week.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I agree in that I have not seen any police officers actively speaking against the movement. And in a post I made on social media, I mentioned how I have great respect and admiration for most of our officers. My point was just I don't see how anyone can be against improving our police system so that there could be less human lives lost other than hypothetical corrupt police officers.


Thank you though. I appreciate that the thread from what I have seen has been productive and without insults considering how easily this type of topic can become heated.




This I think is a fair take. Is it possible though that the creation and use of a police force in America though is one of the reasons for issues in those communities?





I'm all for that!

Possibly? I'm not sure that police use of force causes absurdly high murder rates, robbery rates, drug infestation, and other forms of social deprivation. I'll say that repeated contact with police...sirens going off, people being arrested..etc im sure has an effect on the community psyche. But lets dig deeper. There was a study done a few years back- I cant recall the exact numbers, I believe the number was 20%? Ill go with that. Juvenile inner-city kids are 20% more likely to engage in violent crime if they observe and/or are a victim of a violent crime. Some of these cities are absolute chaos. There's no structure...it doesn't matter what your race is...you're set up for failure.

Another statistic that holds weight I believe- Pre-1970 23% of black kids were born out of wedlock. Now its upwards of 70%. Not to mention a lot of these children are being born to mothers who are also children. In middle/upper-class white suburbia is extremely difficult to raise a child properly as a single parent...multiply those challenges x10000 for a young, poor girl living in a resource deprived city. I have to ask, how are we shocked at the high school drop out rates and social deviancy that translates to gang membership..etc that continues to repeat generation after generation?

All groupings of violence needed to be treated as a public health issue. That way we can peel away the underlying causes that start a decade before a kid with a gun has a run in with a cop and gets killed.

 

[drayer54]

I think the Ferguson case opened my eyes to some of this. The Justice Department's report agreed that the officer was justified. They also investigated the department as a whole and found major issues. The main thing was how the department was used as a way of raising revenue. There are emails from the finance director to the City Manager about the need for the department to generate more revenue. Most of the focus on policing was in code violations and not actual crime. Pulling people over or stopping them without any probable cause (4A violations) were common all for the desire to write tickets and generate more money.

The report also talks about the racial bias involved. Either way, when you use your police department as tax collectors with guns it builds up distrust within the community. There becomes a lot of tension and hatred and once something like the Floyd killing happens, things explode. I'm not sure how common this practice is throughout the country but I'd be surprised if Ferguson is/was out of the norm.

I'm sure we can take this a step further and discuss why these cities need their police departments out there bleeding their communities for money. I'd assume most of it is due to poor management of budgets from the politicians. The usual corruption and incompetence.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

I was only referring to the officer who had his face smeared by the media to the country and went through hell by the public after going through hell with a criminal.

The issues with police are real. I have lots of things I'd change.

 

[Irish YJ]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You go girl. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CheesecakeFactory?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CheesecakeFactory</a> <a href="https://t.co/a49GM5hhFr">pic.twitter.com/a49GM5hhFr</a></p>— DepressYvesStLauren (@Kaione) <a href="https://twitter.com/Kaione/status/1267250708505640962?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NDRock]

I was only referring to the officer who had his face smeared by the media to the country and went through hell by the public after going through hell with a criminal.

The issues with police are real. I have lots of things I'd change.

Oh yeah, wasn't arguing with you. Like I said, the report just made me realize why things seemingly went from 0-60 over a single incident. Like most of these things, it's years in the making.

I would be interested in your thoughts on what needs to change. Seems like a brutal job which is why we get quite a few coming over to the fire department.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

DeBlasio is an incompetent clown and this is no secret. His own daughter was arrested for launching airmail at the cops the other day. He has handcuffed his police force with soft enforcement policies and his rank and file are paying the price. Want to get sick to your stomach? Find the NYPD Citywide 1 frequency online and listen to the mayhem going on tonight after dark. The peaceful protestors are out now. After dark, it’s time to take back the streets.

 

[yankeehater]

DeBlasio is an incompetent clown and this is no secret. His own daughter was arrested for launching airmail at the cops the other day. He has handcuffed his police force with soft enforcement policies and his rank and file are paying the price. Want to get sick to your stomach? Find the NYPD Citywide 1 frequency online and listen to the mayhem going on tonight after dark. The peaceful protestors are out now. After dark, it’s time to take back the streets.

Sorry to hear and stay safe!

 

[drayer54]

Oh yeah, wasn't arguing with you. Like I said, the report just made me realize why things seemingly went from 0-60 over a single incident. Like most of these things, it's years in the making.

I would be interested in your thoughts on what needs to change. Seems like a brutal job which is why we get quite a few coming over to the fire department.

Qualified Immunity- provides a shield for officers who commit egregious fouls against citizens in the course of doing their job. Repealing this would big. Amash drafted a bill a few days ago and this is a problem that lets way too many cops off from bad crimes.

End civil asset forfeiture- it's theft by cops and should end.

No MRAPs, no tanks, no starship trooper cops, no armored vehicles.

Body camera transparency- all of them need camera and they should be on. The videos should be public post prosecution for public review. No exceptions.

DeBlasio is an incompetent clown and this is no secret. His own daughter was arrested for launching airmail at the cops the other day. He has handcuffed his police force with soft enforcement policies and his rank and file are paying the price. Want to get sick to your stomach? Find the NYPD Citywide 1 frequency online and listen to the mayhem going on tonight after dark. The peaceful protestors are out now. After dark, it’s time to take back the streets.

Deblasio is a joke. Remember no worshipping and the synagogues are on notice but feel free to burn and loot at all hours. YMCA and exercise for me, but stay at home for thee.

His management of the city and the police is negligent. He should be recalled immediately.

 

[ACamp1900]

Beau, so I just saw a social media interaction. Person A states we need to stop grouping everyone differently and view everyone the same. Person B chimes in “We will treat everyone the same once our police stop looking at blacks as easy targets. They refuse to tho so now they’re the targets!! I say good.’

And that’s why you have the statistical data and ‘yeah buts’ being thrown out. Really, regardless of anything person A says, person B is justifying violence over a false pretense. And guess who got the overwhelming majority of likes and support in the thread,... maybe if we had more of a moderate, broader view of the realities we all face we wouldn’t have this mass of ‘let’s get em!!!’. Trying to get to that place however is also attacked,... This is just crazy towns.

 

[yankeehater]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You go girl. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CheesecakeFactory?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CheesecakeFactory</a> <a href="https://t.co/a49GM5hhFr">pic.twitter.com/a49GM5hhFr</a></p>— DepressYvesStLauren (@Kaione) <a href="https://twitter.com/Kaione/status/1267250708505640962?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This says it all for the media today!!!

Media person....reports the Cheesecake Factory is being looted.

Same media person....there goes someone with a cheesecake. It is unclear where they may have gotten that.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Oh yeah, wasn't arguing with you. Like I said, the report just made me realize why things seemingly went from 0-60 over a single incident. Like most of these things, it's years in the making.

I would be interested in your thoughts on what needs to change. Seems like a brutal job which is why we get quite a few coming over to the fire department.

1. Hiring. Better more efficient hiring process' to weed out the psycho's (Chauvin).
2. Rotations in/out of problem communities to give officers breaks of dealing with the high stress environments. But you have to balance manpower with experience, you dont want all rookies running around a high crime area either. Rotations will also give breaks to officers and probably have a positive effect on mental health.
3. Use of force incidents happen. Whether we want to believe it or not, the reality is sometimes there scenarios where things have to get physical. Unfortunately its part of the job. So Use of force isnt necessarily a bad thing, but abuse is a different story. Its a lot easier to spot than most believe. Once a pattern of that emerges with an officer, it has to be addressed immediately.
4. Proper training. The academy/boot camp does not prepare you for what you walk into on your first day on the job. A structured training regiment with a good cop is crucial. I was very fortunate and had a great training officer. It matters more than one can imahine.
5. Training- Frequent training needs to happen. De-escalation training and community policing training are statistically valuable. Oddly enough, community policing training received during the academy had an adverse effect of use of force in my study. Im not sure why, my assumption is that community policing is more valuable when you have the experience coupled with the training so you can apply it. Also, better tactical training. Believe it or not, most strictly uniformed cops do not have significant tactical training. Tactical training can greatly reduce deadly force because the cop can possibly approach a call for response differently in a way that will reduce that chance of force being used. For example, if theres a DV call at a residence and the cops pull up directly outfront, before they get out of the car they could encounter a guy with a gun. 1. They could be suprised and shoot out of reflex. 2. The suspect sees the cops and has time to corner them/engage them. If the cops take a different approach...take a different angle to the residence unseen, they can assess the situation and suprise the suspect and potentially lead the suspect to surrender/ or engage an arrest with using lesser forms of force.

Just a few of my thoughts.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Qualified Immunity- provides a shield for officers who commit egregious fouls against citizens in the course of doing their job. Repealing this would big. Amash drafted a bill a few days ago and this is a problem that lets way too many cops off from bad crimes.

End civil asset forfeiture- it's theft by cops and should end.

No MRAPs, no tanks, no starship trooper cops, no armored vehicles.

Body camera transparency- all of them need camera and they should be on. The videos should be public post prosecution for public review. No exceptions.





Deblasio is a joke. Remember no worshipping and the synagogues are on notice but feel free to burn and loot at all hours. YMCA and exercise for me, but stay at home for thee.

His management of the city and the police is negligent. He should be recalled immediately.

1. I get what your saying about qualified immunity but youre not looking at it how its most often applied. For example, civil lawsuits are easy to win and the burden of proof is much lower than criminal court. If a cop were to shoot someone in a perfectly clean shoot, you believe the victim and/or family should be able to sue them? Because that happens now, the city/town is sued even when the suspect is clearly in the wrong, and the town usually settles. You expect a cop to pay lawyers and fight that legal battle? He/she would be wiped out and bankrupt in 3 years.

2. Civil forfeiture is a government thing not a cop thing. Departments dont keep the money. Its goes to the county/state/federal treasury and its dispersed. A small percentage of it goes back to police departments. So your gripe is with the government...not police.

3. Disagree here. Armored vehicles shouldn't be patrolling but they're necessary. Regular cars and vests don't stop long gun rounds. Unfortunately, rifles are all over dangerous areas and are used to shootings/homicides regularly. If you want cops to be able to stop a psycho with a long gun, you need an armored vehicle otherwise no cop is going to go on a suicide mission. Now, ill agree that everytown doesnt need one. Citys should have them and maybe have a few on stand-by regionally incase shit hits the fan?

 

[Irish YJ]

Qualified Immunity- provides a shield for officers who commit egregious fouls against citizens in the course of doing their job. Repealing this would big. Amash drafted a bill a few days ago and this is a problem that lets way too many cops off from bad crimes.

End civil asset forfeiture- it's theft by cops and should end.

No MRAPs, no tanks, no starship trooper cops, no armored vehicles.

Body camera transparency- all of them need camera and they should be on. The videos should be public post prosecution for public review. No exceptions.

I agree with most of this. I think always-on body and car cams should be mandatory. And I think there should be a civilian review board with complete access to all footage, not just for complaints on prosecuted stuff, but simply in general for training purposes, etc.

I'm definitely in favor of ending qualified immunity. I'm fine with armored vehicles though. I'm fine with some level of asset forfeiture, but it needs to be reduced big time, and the assets should go somewhere else.

I'd add that police forces should not be profit generating at all. Revenue from fines, tickets, etc. should all go to fund other programs like health, social security, etc.. That would end a lot of the temptations.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I agree with most of this. I think always-on body and car cams should be mandatory. And I think there should be a civilian review board with complete access to all footage, not just for complaints on prosecuted stuff, but simply in general for training purposes, etc.

I'm definitely in favor of ending qualified immunity. I'm fine with armored vehicles though. I'm fine with some level of asset forfeiture, but it needs to be reduced big time, and the assets should go somewhere else.

I'd add that police forces should not be profit generating at all. Revenue from fines, tickets, etc. should all go to fund other programs like health, social security, etc.. That would end a lot of the temptations.

Funny part about bodycams, a study a few years ago on body cams showed significant higher arrest rates of minorities for low level crimes when body cam activation was mandatory vs discretionary. Cops reported that they were afraid to be written up for not enforcing low level quality of life crimes or turning a blind eye to something that, if bosses werent watching, would be normally let slide.

Again, at least in the state I work and the federal partners ive worked for, the individual agencies dont keep the civil forfeitures. They get sent to the county/state/federal treasury. A small percentage comes back and has to be applied to training..etc.

 

[Irish YJ]

1. I get what your saying about qualified immunity but youre not looking at it how its most often applied. For example, civil lawsuits are easy to win and the burden of proof is much lower than criminal court. If a cop were to shoot someone in a perfectly clean shoot, you believe the victim and/or family should be able to sue them? Because that happens now, the city/town is sued even when the suspect is clearly in the wrong, and the town usually settles. You expect a cop to pay lawyers and fight that legal battle? He/she would be wiped out and bankrupt in 3 years.

2. Civil forfeiture is a government thing not a cop thing. Departments dont keep the money. Its goes to the county/state/federal treasury and its dispersed. A small percentage of it goes back to police departments. So your gripe is with the government...not police.

3. Disagree here. Armored vehicles shouldn't be patrolling but they're necessary. Regular cars and vests don't stop long gun rounds. Unfortunately, rifles are all over dangerous areas and are used to shootings/homicides regularly. If you want cops to be able to stop a psycho with a long gun, you need an armored vehicle otherwise no cop is going to go on a suicide mission. Now, ill agree that everytown doesnt need one. Citys should have them and maybe have a few on stand-by regionally incase shit hits the fan?

Most CAF returns to the police. Depends on state, city, etc.. And a lot is seized without any charges being filed. Some is never even reported, and some is seized using sketchy local law.

Here's a decent read if you have time.

https://pulitzercenter.org/reportin...-school-how-police-use-civil-asset-forfeiture

 

[Irish YJ]

[/B]


Funny part about bodycams, a study a few years ago on body cams showed significant higher arrest rates of minorities for low level crimes when body cam activation was mandatory vs discretionary. Cops reported that they were afraid to be written up for not enforcing low level quality of life crimes or turning a blind eye to something that, if bosses werent watching, would be normally let slide.

Again, at least in the state I work and the federal partners ive worked for, the individual agencies dont keep the civil forfeitures. They get sent to the county/state/federal treasury. A small percentage comes back and has to be applied to training..etc.

I'm fine with enforcement of law. All I would like to see is consistency. I'm also fine with documented warnings when folks are allowed to slide.

I posted a link on AF. I think it's very locale dependent.