Police State USA

[Bogtrotter07]

He was on his knees, trying to control someone who was resisting, and the one kid rushed up on him. He pulled up short, but he still rushed up on him and appeared to be yelling at him. Whether we agree or not, police officers will consider that a threat, 10 times out of 10.

Any review panel looking at that tape would not see the two teenage boys as posing a threat to him, because, and you may have to slow down the tape to see this, they were clearly coming to the aid of the girl, and approached from the wrong direction (clearly.) But, as soon as the officer turned to address their presence, before he even issued a verbal command, they changed direction and retreated. Which would have been his order. At no point did they physically threaten or challenge him. Period.

Look at it slowly, and remove your glasses if you must.

Then he took off after them, abandoning his bikini-clad perpetrator, to take three steps after them with his side-arm clear of the holster. That's just about it.

Except his fellow officers seeing this are all over him, going as far as to block his path to the retreating teens. They obviously command him to stop.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think you are talking about the white girl that was interviewed on the morning show, and BleedBlueandGold is talking about the black girl that he took down?

. . . watched the video you linked. Funny that even the white girl who was involved got cuffed but no one is talking about that. Did she deserve to be? Probably not. I feel the others who were standing around probably didn't need to be as well. But you're talking about what, three cops, trying to handle a hundred people in that situation.

No, we were talking about the same girl. Her name is Grace, and at fourteen she seems to have a better head than most involved in this incident.

 

[kmoose]

they were clearly coming to the aid of the girl

If two guys were "clearly coming to the aid of" someone you were trying to subdue, you can bet your ass that most reasonable people would clearly consider them a threat.

 

[pkt77242]

Re-watch the original video and you can see him tell that group of girls to go home numerous times. The girl who took the brunt of it (you can't miss her throughout the video) clearly ignores him and you can't hear what was said, but she had to have provoked him. He was already all jacked up, but he went after her to grab her. Then she resisted and refused to put her hands behind her back and lay down. Harsh, perhaps. But that treatment is coming towards anyone who acts the way she did, regardless of age/sex/race.



I think his barrel role was a result of him tripping while running towards a group. He was acting pretty crazy compared to the other cops (at times). A lot of the time you see him just telling kids to go home, etc. He even came back to talk to one kid and explain to him why he got upset with him. That girl flat out resisted and then the cop got swarmed the second he got her to the ground. Standard procedure if you ask me.

I watched the video you linked. Funny that even the white girl who was involved got cuffed but no one is talking about that. Did she deserve to be? Probably not. I feel the others who were standing around probably didn't need to be as well. But you're talking about what, three cops, trying to handle a hundred people in that situation.

The problem I have with his actions is that instead of diffusing the situation he was actively making the situation worse. You do not diffuse a situation by running around like a crazy person and slamming people to the ground, that is more likely to make the situation worse for everyone involved. The other cops seemed to be doing a better job of handling the situation, they seemed calm and under control which makes his actions look even worse in comparison.

 

[nlroma1o]

Bogs, the girl was already in the process of being detained by that officer. You cant come to the aid of the girl, because shes in the process of being arrested. If those kids wanted to help that girl, they should have grabbed her and walked her home well before she had time to piss off the cop. Instead teenagers these days think they are invincible and run their mouths at the cops.

When I was 14 I had a few run ins with police officers. One of them was when me and a few friends were skateboarding by a grade school. The second they showed up and told us to go home, we shut our damn mouths and went home.

 

[GDomer09]

(1) That Officer overall was very erratic and over the top, about everything.

(2) The girl didn't listen and then resisted. That cop showed no indication that he was going to put up with BS from anybody. No matter the race or sex of the individual they would have been treated the same. Either way he was a little too rough for my liking.

3) Several white and black boys and girls sat on the grass when immediately asked and were ignored because they followed instructions.

4) Sorry, no matter how over the top the officer was acting civilians coming up on you/the perp when asked to go home is a threat. Was the gun necessary? I would say it wasn't, but I'm not a cop nor have I ever been put in this type of situation of threat.

5) Why does it always have to be about race first cop brutality second? If this was a white girl who resisted and was treated in this manner no one would ever know this event happened.

 

[kmoose]

(5) Why does it always have to be about race first cop brutality second? If this was a white girl who resisted and was treated in this manner no one would ever know this event happened.

Because this doesn't happen to white girls. They have white privilege.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Bogs, the girl was already in the process of being detained by that officer. You cant come to the aid of the girl, because shes in the process of being arrested. If those kids wanted to help that girl, they should have grabbed her and walked her home. well before she had time to piss off the cop. Instead teenagers these days hink they are invincible and run their mouths at the cops.

When I was 14 I had a few run ins with police officers. One of them was when me and a few friends were skateboarding by a grade school. The second they showed up and told us to go home, we shut our damn mouths and went home.

100%, buddy! I agree with everything bolded!

I think the kids actually realized that as they approached and froze before the officer addressed them.

Have you ever been in a situation like this? One with hundreds of people, and stimulation coming from all directions. Anything from a mass demonstration to a combat skirmish?

You certainly cannot predict anyone's reaction, let alone your own, unless you let your training take over. Most civilians, "white or black" don't have this kind of training. This has been the case for(ever) many decades. My father was a highschooler walking home one afternoon when he witnesses the National Guard killing three or four protesters, (and a baby caught in the crossfire.) He described the horror of that day clearly, thirty or forty years later and I never forgot his point : "In a situation like that, everybody acts stupid! Get out while you can!"

I brought the old Electric Autolite up because it removes race from the conversation, by the example.

 

[GDomer09]

Bogs, the girl was already in the process of being detained by that officer. You cant come to the aid of the girl, because shes in the process of being arrested. If those kids wanted to help that girl, they should have grabbed her and walked her home well before she had time to piss off the cop. Instead teenagers these days think they are invincible and run their mouths at the cops.

When I was 14 I had a few run ins with police officers. One of them was when me and a few friends were skateboarding by a grade school. The second they showed up and told us to go home, we shut our damn mouths and went home.

This^

I was a very big trouble maker and thought I was super tough when I was younger. Picture Eminem mixed with "Malibu's Most Wanted" lol. Looked more like the movie "Kids". Even as badass as I thought I was, when a Cop approached me I was scared shitless and followed all his commands with a no sir, yes sir. Not because I wasn't a badass , but because my commonsense notified me that going to jail would suck almost as bad as answering to my parents. Is that fear all but gone?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Sorry Bogs, I'm not really following what you're trying to say. I can't decide if it's that I don't agree or if I'm just misunderstanding.

I did watch Grace's interview. My comment was about her. The media immediately turned this into a white/black thing and very few are even mentioning that a "white girl" got cuffed as well. I never said anything about her (Grace) resisting or being non-compliant so I don't know what you're talking about.

I also disagree when you say the cop wasn't threatened. No one but him can make that determination. While he was trying to detain that young girl, he got swarmed by two other women and two men. He drew his weapon. It seems the other cops did tell him to stand down, because he immediately relaxed, instructed them to go after the two men who ran, and then turned his attention back to the young lady. Also, no one is talking about the three minutes it takes for the other two officers to return with only one guy. And that guy looks dazed to say the least.

My biggest beef with this is the overweight, jean-short-wearing, white dude strolling around and getting involved and in the way, yet not one single police officer instructed him to get back. That's totally wrong.

 

[nlroma1o]

100%, buddy! I agree with everything bolded!

I think the kids actually realized that as they approached and froze before the officer addressed them.

Have you ever been in a situation like this? One with hundreds of people, and stimulation coming from all directions. Anything from a mass demonstration to a combat skirmish?

You certainly cannot predict anyone's reaction, let alone your own, unless you let your training take over. Most civilians, "white or black" don't have this kind of training. This has been the case for(ever) many decades. My father was a highschooler walking home one afternoon when he witnesses the National Guard killing three or four protesters, (and a baby caught in the crossfire.) He described the horror of that day clearly, thirty or forty years later and I never forgot his point : "In a situation like that, everybody acts stupid! Get out while you can!"

I brought the old Electric Autolite up because it removes race from the conversation, by the example.

Yes, the 2 kids did seize up, but it may have only been because they saw him reach for his gun.

Young kids these days aren't taught that the Police are there to ensure civility and protection. The aren't taught that they need to be respected. Instead, the little brats these days get away with talking back to their parents, and they certainly think there is no consequences to not listening to police officers.

Really the only situation I have been in where there was an out of control situation like this was when I was in college and there was a huge bar fight. Like 20+ people. There was a cop there at the bar, and he called in back up. It was chaos and errbody be actin' a fool. I was a little involved at the start, but I came to and just dragged one of my buddies out of the fight and got him outside and we left. So to your dads point, hes 100 correct.

 

[nlroma1o]

This^

I was a very big trouble maker and thought I was super tough when I was younger. Picture Eminem mixed with "Malibu's Most Wanted" lol. Looked more like the movie "Kids". Even as badass as I thought I was, when a Cop approached me I was scared shitless and followed all his commands with a no sir, yes sir. Not because I wasn't a badass , but because my commonsense notified me that going to jail would suck almost as bad as answering to my parents. Is that fear all but gone?

Thats what motivated me. I would rather be a coward to the eyes of my 14-15 years old friends, then have to deal with the wrath of my father if I got in trouble.

 

[nlroma1o]

If I had a teenage kid who was involved in this and I found out they didnt listen to a cop telling them to leave, or back talked to them on video, I would drive their ass to the station to apologize to the cops for not listening to them.

 

[ACamp1900]

If I had a teenage kid who was involved in this and I found out they didnt listen to a cop telling them to leave, or back talked to them on video, I would drive their ass to the station to apologize to the cops for not listening to them.

Flashback Tuesday....

 

[ACamp1900]

If people acted right and not like a bunch of fools the cops don't get called. And before you go run your mouth I do this for a living go to your local 911 center and see if they will let you sit in and you will see how stupid people are.

I've shared that one of my oldest friends is a SB County Sheriff before, I swear if I didn't know her better I'd never believe her stories of the horrible things people do to her and other law enforcement officers... it's pretty crazy, over the top stuff.

 

[GDomer09]

I've shared that one of my oldest friends is a SB County Sheriff before, I swear if I didn't know her better I'd never believe her stories of the horrible things people do to her and other law enforcement officers... it's pretty crazy, over the top stuff.

This is what the people that automatically call foul forget or just no nothing about. Cops deal with the crazy the majority of us never see (except at our local Wal-Mart). The only thing the cop haters are seeing are a few incidents of cell phone footage in comparison to millions of non-cell phone recorded incidents.

 

[Irish Insanity]

If people acted right and not like a bunch of fools the cops don't get called. And before you go run your mouth I do this for a living go to your local 911 center and see if they will let you sit in and you will see how stupid people are.

I'm sorry. I completely disagree. Idiots will call the cops for no reason. Don't act like it doesn't happen. Situations like this, and bad cops, may be in the minority, but they're are some. Unfortunately the current situations are ruining it for the good guys.

 

[Bluto]

Bottom line for me is that the police allways need to be the bigger person and the cool head in any given situation because that's their job. To serve and protect...

It should also be much harder to become a police officer. That idiot who drew his firearm needs to be fired and work at McDonalds.

 

[Bluto]

What about their LEGAL requests?

Depends on the circumstances. A bunch of people I think very highly of in both the civil rights and labor movements told the cops to stick it, stood their ground and even went toe to toe with the police when the police tried to enforce "legal" requests.

 

[kmoose]

Depends on the circumstances. A bunch of people I think very highly of in the both the civil rights and labor movements told the cops to stick it, stood their ground and even went toe to toe with the police when the police tried to enforce "legal" requests.

OK. That's fine. But then they don't get to whine and cry when they have to face the consequences of their decision.

One of the things that gets lost in the discussion about police and the public is that, just because *you* might do the same thing, that doesn't absolve people from the consequences. I don't always drive the speed limit, but I don't scream and shout and cop an attitude about persecution if I get pulled over for doing 73MPH in a 65MPH zone. I was speeding. "Everyone" is doing it, but I knew it was wrong, and everyone else doing wrong doesn't absolve me from the fine. I might bemoan, "with all of the other people out, why me?"....... but I don't blame the cop for picking me out.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is what the people that automatically call foul forget or just no nothing about. Cops deal with the crazy the majority of us never see (except at our local Wal-Mart). The only thing the cop haters are seeing are a few incidents of cell phone footage in comparison to millions of non-cell phone recorded incidents.

Are you saying there are millions on incidents that are not recorded that demonstrate cops doing their jobs to the letter of the law or that if it is not recorded the police are perceived as always right? I think both of those things are true. However, no matter how crazy their jobs are, they volunteered to uphold the law and they should be held to account when they become part of the problem. I am not a cop hater, I am a hater of law breakers. Worst among them are the ones who use their positions as cops to get away with the same things they have been hired to protect against. This cop was clearly off the rails at the pool party and he made the situation much worse. He pulled his gun on teenagers. Nobody should be defending this asshole -- especially those that are seen in a bad light because of stupid asses like him. Cops have a hard enough job that they don't need idiots wearing badges and ruining the reputation of all cops. If they deal with the few instances appropriately and push these idiots off the force there would be fewer instances in which such nonsense would be caught on cell phone cameras. Unfortunately these instances are seldom caught on camera and are usually swept under the rug and the police protect their own, thus increasing the amount of distrust people have in police in general. The cops at the pool party who told the stupid cop to stand down are the ones who did the right thing. Defending the idiot because cops have hard jobs adds to the perception problem of all cops.

 

[Wild Bill]

Bottom line for me is that the police allways need to be the bigger person and the cool head in any given situation because that's their job. To serve and protect...

It should also be much harder to become a police officer. That idiot who drew his firearm needs to be fired and work at McDonalds.

I agree with all except the firing part (I don't have enough info to make that call).

Unfortunately, I think the unintended consequence to all the negative attention officers are receiving is that it's going to be tough attracting new officers to the force, and departments may be forced to lower the standard to meet their needs.

Being an officer has to be one of the toughest jobs in the country and the pay certainly isn't a motivating factor. I tip my hat to officers for strapping it up every day. I have many friends on the force and there are some days they'd rather flip burgers at McDonalds than deal with the degenerates most of us can simply avoid/ignore.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Unfortunately, I think the unintended consequence to all the negative attention officers are receiving is that it's going to be tough attracting new officers to the force, and departments may be forced to lower the standard to meet their needs.

Being an officer has to be one of the toughest jobs in the country and the pay certainly isn't a motivating factor. I tip my hat to officers for strapping it up every day. I have many friends on the force and there are some days they'd rather flip burgers at McDonalds than deal with the degenerates most of us can simply avoid/ignore.

Insert "teacher" in place of "officer" and I could make a similar argument (though I realize this is the wrong thread)

 

[BleedBlueGold]

People are saying "he pulled a gun on teenagers" as if teens are innocent victims, unable to ever cause harm. The cop pulled his gun on 2 guys who rushed the scene (rushed him, rushed to the aid of the girl...it doesn't matter). He was also rushed by two girls. A total of four people came at him while he was trying to detain the girl. That's obstruction of justice, people. And if that cop thought he was being threatened, pulling out his gun shouldn't seem outlandish. Thankfully, he didn't pull the trigger and no one got hurt. Could he have acted differently and pulled out mace, a taser, etc instead of a gun? Sure. And maybe that goes back to the training element that others have mentioned. But I'm not going to freak out that a cop did what he did given the circumstances of that particular detainment.

 

[Bluto]

People are saying "he pulled a gun on teenagers" as if teens are innocent victims, unable to ever cause harm. The cop pulled his gun on 2 guys who rushed the scene (rushed him, rushed to the aid of the girl...it doesn't matter). He was also rushed by two girls. A total of four people came at him while he was trying to detain the girl. That's obstruction of justice, people. And if that cop thought he was being threatened, pulling out his gun shouldn't seem outlandish. Thankfully, he didn't pull the trigger and no one got hurt. Could he have acted differently and pulled out mace, a taser, etc instead of a gun? Sure. And maybe that goes back to the training element that others have mentioned. But I'm not going to freak out that a cop did what he did given the circumstances of that particular detainment.

So if I'm reading this right you are okay with a police officer escalating a "disturbing the peace" call by employing deadly force to subdue 4 - 5, 13 year old kids?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

So if I'm reading this right you are okay with a police officer escalating a "disturbing the peace" call by employing deadly force to subdue 4 - 5, 13 year old kids?

Don't twist my words by making it sound like I'm ok with the cop shooting these kids.

He put cuffs on multiple kids and only one resisted (that we see in the video). He forced that girl to ground and four other kids came running up. Next time you see someone being detained, go run up on the cop and let me know how that works out for you.

 

[nlroma1o]

So if I'm reading this right you are okay with a police officer escalating a "disturbing the peace" call by employing deadly force to subdue 4 - 5, 13 year old kids?

Was someone shot that I didn't read about? Where was deadly force used or employed?

And the girl who was being detained and put on the ground was 14. The girl who organized the party was 19. There average age at this pool party was much older than 13. The 2 males kids that came at the officer were definitely older than 13. These were highscool aged kids, not 7th or 8th graders.

 

[Bluto]

Was someone shot that I didn't read about? Where was deadly force used or employed?

And the girl who was being detained and put on the ground was 14. The girl who organized the party was 19. There average age at this pool party was much older than 13. The 2 males kids that came at the officer were definitely older than 13. These were highscool aged kids, not 7th or 8th graders.

Oh so you're okay with the police drawing firearms of unarmed high schoolers. Great. The kids in that video looked about as intimidating as Erkle.

 

[Bluto]

Don't twist my words by making it sound like I'm ok with the cop shooting these kids.

He put cuffs on multiple kids and only one resisted (that we see in the video). He forced that girl to ground and four other kids came running up. Next time you see someone being detained, go run up on the cop and let me know how that works out for you.

I didn't twist your words you said your okay with what the cop did which was draw his weapon on a bunch of unarmed kids. Good for you.

 

[nlroma1o]

Oh so you're okay with the police drawing firearms of unarmed high schoolers. Great.

I don't care who you are. You cannot run up and approach a police officer who is detaining someone like that. These guys are put in danger every single day.

Why don't we just give that police officer a toy lightsaber in this situation. And see if the 2 kids stop in there tracks and run away from the cop. Or would they continue progressing forward, towards the officer, potentially making the situation even worse.