Police State USA

[NDdomer2]

Context is revealing. Think I am interpreting it unfairly? I wonder if the people who used it in this particular context would be willing to go to Baltimore and conduct a poll for us.

I'm making no assumptions on his use or your interpretation. I provided a definition of animal that COULD justify his use, and agreed with you that rioters was the perfect word to use.

That's as both side of the fence I can get my man.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Context is revealing. Think I am interpreting it unfairly? I wonder if the people who used it in this particular context would be willing to go to Baltimore and conduct a poll for us.

They don't have time to be polled on the topic, they are to busy destroying their city.

 

[IrishLax]

You are a fool and it continues to show

In his defense, he's an Eagles fan. Acting like an animal is the norm.

Chill out a bit. You're toeing the line with some of your personal jabs.

 

[GoIrish41]

Are you willing to say that in his post, he was generalizing African-American's as animals? It seems like thats what you're getting at. If so:

1. Why? His post was about the behavior of the demonstrators, not the individuals.
2. You're very racist

Yeah that's me, a regular bigot. His post was also about a particular group of people. You go ahead and pretend you did not know what he meant and I will go ahead and believe you are willfully ignorant

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah that's me, a regular bigot. His post was also about a particular group of people. You go ahead and pretend you did not know what he meant and I will go ahead and believe you are willfully ignorant

Wake up pal.

 

[amgarvey]

The cops overstepped their authority, did not recognize the rights of those in the vehicle, and the person never "didn't comply"... and then they charged the person with crimes he didn't commit, and then tried to destroy evidence.

The bolded is what is really messed up. Excessive force is one thing... breaking the law by ignoring the rights of citizens is another... those can both be "mistakes." Charging someone with crimes that never happened and attempting to destroy evidence is flat out wrong.

The thing is charging people with crimes they didn't commit is so commonplace it's virtually a part of the legal process. It doesn't seem like anybody even bats an eye at it.

 

[Junkhead]

I won't pretend to know much about this Baltimore situation, I really don't. My insight is only from my father and grandpa being Police officers. I can see both sides. My father, who died in 1999, told me to never be Police Officer. He told me it is a thankless job and to be a fireman instead. Anyway, I, as others have stated, think most of this has been going on forever, but camera phones and youtube have made everyone aware of it. Some of it is deserved, others not. Thats all I have to say about that.

 

[GoIrish41]

You are a fool and it continues to show

But at least I do not use a racial slur and hide behind the anonymity of a message board and suggest I used it innocently. If someone is going to be a bigot they should have the stones to take flack for it when people are offended. Own what you say.

 

[NDdomer2]

But at least I do not use a racial slur and hide behind the anonymity of a message board and suggest I used it innocently. If someone is going to be a bigot they should have the stones to take flack for it when people are offended. Own what you say.

 

[irishff1014]

But at least I do not use a racial slur and hide behind the anonymity of a message board and suggest I used it innocently. If someone is going to be a bigot they should have the stones to take flack for it when people are offended. Own what you say.

You are showing your true colors. Like I said each post you show it it.

I hope you watching the police press conference. This was started by a large group of high scoolers. Great parenting huh? The police should have kicked this early but weren't aloud to by the mayor. But the NG is coming in and will get this under control. And since you ingored my other post look st this police dept and how much minority is the brass of the police.

 

[amgarvey]

I obviously don't condone the actions of the rioters in Baltimore but I can understand them in a way. Have any of you ever been so mad you punched a wall/refrigerator/door etc? I'd be willing to bet the cause of your frustration or anger was not the wall, door or refrigerator. Now imagine you and many of the people you know have been unfairly targeted and unfairly treated by police. These are people who have years of internalized anger, who's voices aren't heard and feel utterly powerless to change the situation. Under those circumstances an explosion was inevitable and when you factor in crowd dynamics all of that emotion is amplified and uninhibited.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I don't immediately associate the term "animals" with anyone of a particular race.

Are you also upset that the Baltimore mayor was referring to the rioters as "thugs"?

Part of the justification for the dehumanizing practice of slavery was that blacks were considered "animals," as in subhuman. Is it possible to refer to a person as an animal in a different context? Sure. But in this context, where it is being used to talk about a large group of people that is almost entirely black and whose behavior is being met with disapproval, it would be prudent to use any number of other words to describe the people who are rioting. The rioting is sad, and the people who are doing it are behaving badly, but they're still people.

I think there are some who have been forced to abandon their deeply held beliefs in public because it has become socially unacceptable to voice them, and those people feel moments like these afford them the cover to do so. I believe it is important to say that it still isn't ok, even in moments like this.

 

[Redbar]

What is going on in Baltimore is tragic. It began with a tragedy, and has spiraled downward. There are no winners as these situations continue to pop up. Whether you live in Baltimore or Baton Rouge no freedom loving American benefits from situations that provoke a military response in our cities. I find it ironic that in a thread talking about the encroachment of the Police State, some are cheering the arrival of the national guard and whatever they will bring. Obviously, mayhem cannot be allowed to engulf the lives of the people of Baltimore, but that we have allowed things to get so far out of control that we need Big Brother to keep us from falling into chaos is not an exciting development. It is indicative of a nation that has truly lost it's way. The opposite of love is fear and when fear rules the day, people welcome controllers. More and more controls will never equal more freedom. What happened in Ferguson, now in Baltimore is opportunity for the Police State, and tragedy for the individual freedom loving American.

 

[NDgradstudent]

The problem here was identified by the Moynihan Report in 1965. Back then, the black out of wedlock birth rate was 24% and this was regarded (rightly) as a disaster. Today, it is 70% (!) and rising among blacks. This is a massive calamity, and no among of welfare, public education, or whatever, will be able to install a father figure in a home who can teach a boy how to be a man.

 

[GoIrish41]

You are showing your true colors. Like I said each post you show it it.

I hope you watching the police press conference. This was started by a large group of high scoolers. Great parenting huh? The police should have kicked this early but weren't aloud to by the mayor. But the NG is coming in and will get this under control. And since you ingored my other post look st this police dept and how much minority is the brass of the police.

It was started by six cops who severed a man's spine. Let's not let our self indulgence allow us to lose site of that indisputable fact. Do you think the national guard is going to shoot on sight or something? Get a grip man. There is just as good a chance that the guardsmen are going to make things worse.

 

[DillonHall]

Opportunists?

Why are some of these rioters traveling multiple states to riot? The Baltimore police have done them wrong?

The slaying of this young man is undoubtedly the tipping point, but you mean to tell me every rioter out there is rioting for his death and his death only?!?

You won't get a straight answer from GoIrish41 because it doesn't fit the narrative that he wants to portray.

 

[GoIrish41]

The problem here was identified by the Moynihan Report in 1965. Back then, the black out of wedlock birth rate was 24% and this was regarded (rightly) as a disaster. Today, it is 70% (!) and rising among blacks. This is a massive calamity, and no among of welfare, public education, or whatever, will be able to install a father figure in a home who can teach a boy how to be a man.

It's not the police brutality that is the problem? That guy got his back broken because his parents divorced? Any way you can justify lowering taxes and banning same sex marriage based on this incident too?

 

[DillonHall]

It was started by six cops who severed a man's spine. Let's not let our self indulgence allow us to lose site of that indisputable fact. Do you think the national hard is going to shoot on sight or something? Get a grip man. There is just as good a chance that the guardsmen are going to make things worse.

You're acting like a child arguing about who started it. Nobody's in the right, and there are no excuses on either side. It's an incredible tragedy that police unnecessary harm and kill citizens, and it's unacceptable to use it as an excuse to commit violent crimes.

 

[irishff1014]

It was started by six cops who severed a man's spine. Let's not let our self indulgence allow us to lose site of that indisputable fact. Do you think the national guard is going to shoot on sight or something? Get a grip man. There is just as good a chance that the guardsmen are going to make things worse.

I don't condone what the officers did. They should have buckled him properly since it is policy. Also if he asked for ems like reports say he did then you call them to get him to check him. But to look at a cop and start running yeah that's say one thing I am doing something I should the police acted took him down an I am OK with that. I am not OK with them not following procedure. Oh one more thing I forgot to point out is the amount of times he has been charged with possession but I guess you don't look at the either huh. You can't be that bilnd man use the resources and if you are from Maryland I know you know about Maryland case search.

 

[IrishLax]

I obviously don't condone the actions of the rioters in Baltimore but I can understand them in a way. Have any of you ever been so mad you punched a wall/refrigerator/door etc? I'd be willing to bet the cause of your frustration or anger was not the wall, door or refrigerator. Now imagine you and many of the people you know have been unfairly targeted and unfairly treated by police. These are people who have years of internalized anger, who's voices aren't heard and feel utterly powerless to change the situation. Under those circumstances an explosion was inevitable and when you factor in crowd dynamics all of that emotion is amplified and uninhibited.

To the bolded, I can actually answer "no" to that and maybe that's part of my problem in understanding things. I've never been so irrationally mad at something that I've turned violent on something unrelated.

I have no sympathy for people acting like those in Baltimore for two reasons:
1) I think it's entirely counter-productive in getting people to be sympathetic to your cause and the issue.
2) I think most of the people involved don't actually give a single shit about the man who lost his life because of police misconduct. You have your protesters, and then you have a huge group of people simply using the protests as cover to go riot/loot/assault. The news reporter who got jumped did nothing to deserve it. The CVS that got burned to the ground did nothing to deserve it... but they made sure to rob it first, and then burn it to the ground after they got what they want. And you have people dancing in the streets... which seems like quite an odd action if you're outraged and heartbroken over someone's death...

So now the real story... cops break a man's neck... is playing second fiddle to "holy crap Baltimore is turning into a war zone." By the end of this week the main emotion people will have is disgust and anger towards the group of people committing these crimes... which just perpetuates the cycle we're conceivably trying to break. You basically just had a group of criminals co-opt a tragedy as an excuse to be criminals, which simply reinforces the beliefs held by the police and others in the city about that group of people.

 

[GoIrish41]

You're acting like a child arguing about who started it. Nobody's in the right, and there are no excuses on either side. It's an incredible tragedy that police unnecessary harm and kill citizens, and it's unacceptable to use it as an excuse to commit violent crimes.

I was responding to the post that said high school kids "started it" and a useful commentary on the parenting skills of people the poster never met. None of this would be happening if the police did not use excessive force. Did not want this discussion to go so far afield that we lose sight of that.
I actually agree with the rest of your post.

 

[IrishLax]

The other thing that is annoying to me is that there are two groups of people hell bent on two competing narratives:
1) That rioting is somehow justified and a good thing.
OR
2) That the rioting is all a media invention and everything is actually peaceful.

Both, to me, are total bullshit when you look at the facts of property destruction, injuries, and arrests.

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't condone what the officers did. They should have buckled him properly since it is policy. Also if he asked for ems like reports say he did then you call them to get him to check him. But to look at a cop and start running yeah that's say one thing I am doing something I should the police acted took him down an I am OK with that. I am not OK with them not following procedure. Oh one more thing I forgot to point out is the amount of times he has been charged with possession but I guess you don't look at the either huh. You can't be that bilnd man use the resources and if you are from Maryland I know you know about Maryland case search.

I live in Pennsylvania. Three things. 1. Running is not a crime. 2. They had no reason to believe he was in possession of anything and 3. Watch the video of the arrest. That man was terribly injured before he was taken to the van. Unless that van was in a terrible crash on the way to the station, that seatbelt story is pure BS to cover the asses of the police involved.

 

[NDgradstudent]

It's not the police brutality that is the problem? That guy got his back broken because his parents divorced? Any way you can justify lowering taxes and banning same sex marriage based on this incident too?

Like I said earlier: this is not primarily a protest of anything. It is an excuse for these people to loot stores and destroy property (note that I said "these people"- or does the use of the word "these" make that racist too?). This is not the way that well-socialized people respond to tragedies: compare it to the response of the Amish community in Lancaster County, PA, after the 2006 school shooting, for example. The low percentage of normal black families is the main cause of the high crime rate, including these riots.

You're not seriously suggesting that one more tax hike or government program will fix this? Liberals like yourself have run Baltimore since 1967 and have effectively run race relations in this country since around the same time. You have shoveled money at these schools, expanded welfare programs, imposed ludicrous diversity quotas on police forces, abolished civil service exams because of "disparate impact," etc. We can all see the results of this approach in the chaos currently engulfing Baltimore.

 

[Voltaire]

If even half the energy demonstrated by these protesters and looters were spent making an effort in school, the chronic issues that plague these communities would be addressed and solved in a much more rapid and civil manner than the useless idiocy that's going on now.

If the choice is between the aforementioned or just acting publicly as stereotypically as possible, only idiots would choose the latter and use the easy excuses that have been repeated ad nauseum for their anarchic behavior. Yes, the issues talked about in books like The New Jim Crow have been repeated non-stop over the past couple years and are in certain respects very legitimate, but each person is responsible for his or her own life and the respective outcome.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Part of the justification for the dehumanizing practice of slavery was that blacks were considered "animals," as in subhuman. Is it possible to refer to a person as an animal in a different context? Sure. But in this context, where it is being used to talk about a large group of people that is almost entirely black and whose behavior is being met with disapproval, it would be prudent to use any number of other words to describe the people who are rioting. The rioting is sad, and the people who are doing it are behaving badly, but they're still people.

I think there are some who have been forced to abandon their deeply held beliefs in public because it has become socially unacceptable to voice them, and those people feel moments like these afford them the cover to do so. I believe it is important to say that it still isn't ok, even in moments like this.

I understand most of what you are saying. My problem from the start was the quick trigger finger on using the term racism towards another poster that I don't believe meant it in that manor, nor do I believe is racist. He has no history of it that I've noticed, or any history of conflict with poster. I don't get in here as much as some so maybe I've missed it. I honestly could've understood someone asking him/her for clarity on why he used the term, but I didn't assume it of a racial context when I read it

 

[MNIrishman]

To the bolded, I can actually answer "no" to that and maybe that's part of my problem in understanding things. I've never been so irrationally mad at something that I've turned violent on something unrelated.

I have no sympathy for people acting like those in Baltimore for two reasons:
1) I think it's entirely counter-productive in getting people to be sympathetic to your cause and the issue.
2) I think most of the people involved don't actually give a single shit about the man who lost his life because of police misconduct. You have your protesters, and then you have a huge group of people simply using the protests as cover to go riot/loot/assault. The news reporter who got jumped did nothing to deserve it. The CVS that got burned to the ground did nothing to deserve it... but they made sure to rob it first, and then burn it to the ground after they got what they want. And you have people dancing in the streets... which seems like quite an odd action if you're outraged and heartbroken over someone's death...

So now the real story... cops break a man's neck... is playing second fiddle to "holy crap Baltimore is turning into a war zone." By the end of this week the main emotion people will have is disgust and anger towards the group of people committing these crimes... which just perpetuates the cycle we're conceivably trying to break. You basically just had a group of criminals co-opt a tragedy as an excuse to be criminals, which simply reinforces the beliefs held by the police and others in the city about that group of people.

Absolutely. Regrettably, the 'protesters' seem to be more effectively promulgating negative stereotypes than anyone using potentially loaded language on a message board. I'm glad that there are several responsible folks in the community who seem to be doing their best to stand up to the hooligans and rioters. This is not Dr. King's dream.

 

[BGIF]

She called them thugs during her press conference.

Who is she? Hogan is a man.

Here's a YouTube video of "she, the black Baltimore mayor, who decried the rioters, looters, and arsonists trying to destroy the city as "thugs". Hours before she used the phrase the black president of the city council used the same term to describe rioters and not demonstrators.

How racist of the Mayor and City Council President, right 41?

They both used a term which refers to an individual's character not their level of melanin. Actually they were very MLK like in judging one character and not the color of one's skin.

It's a shame you can not do the same. In both the Trayvon and Ferguson cases you were quick to play the race card and judge both shooters as guilty before any evident was presented. Before any sworn testimony was given. Before any due process. You made a point about the white shooter of Trayvon even though he was Hispanic with a Black grandmother. Neither DOJ investigation found racial involvement a factor in those cases but you still found them guilty.

In this thread you saw the word thug and jumped to Hogan, the white governor, who is involved only because the black mayor called him and ASKED for National Guard and State Police assistant.

You called out IFF and others as racist for describing the rioters, not the demonstrators as "animals" although once again it is a word that refers to character not melanin.

Nast drew cartoons in the 1800's of Irish immigrants as monkeys although many had red hair and all had pink skin. In the 1950's inner city movie "Blackboard Jungle" students were called "animals" yet most of them, and the baddest of them, were white. John Belushi lived with a herd of "animals" in "Animal House". They weren't black, they behaved badly. "Full Metal Jackets" Animal Mother was't black, he behaved badly. Once again "animal" referred to character not racism.


Despite your claim of not being aware the mayor use "thug", it took little effort to find a boatload of cites. Just type "Baltimore Mayor" plus "thug" in a search engine and it pops right up. Same result if you enter Baltimore City Council President.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_5-6kX431p0

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It was started by six cops who severed a man's spine. Let's not let our self indulgence allow us to lose site of that indisputable fact. Do you think the national guard is going to shoot on sight or something? Get a grip man. There is just as good a chance that the guardsmen are going to make things worse.

A relative of Allison Krause stands in silent vigil at the location on the Taylor Hall parking lot where Krause and three others were killed during the May 4, 1970, shootings by Ohio National Guardsmen. (Kent State University)

Why so ever would you think that?

 

[phork]

VIDEO: Angry mom beats son suspected of rioting in Baltimore | abc7.com

LOLz, need more moms like this.