[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[GoldenDomer]

45+7 < 53.5

Oops, why did I think it was in the 40's? Must have looked at the NFC game

 

[wizards8507]

Vince Wilfork helps trapped motorist after New England Patriots' AFC Championship Game victory - ESPN Boston

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Whoops lol <a href="http://t.co/uLxN7A5cpq">pic.twitter.com/uLxN7A5cpq</a></p>— Rob Gronkowski (@RobGronkowski) <a href="https://twitter.com/RobGronkowski/status/557394981930168320">January 20, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[irishfan]

Indianapolis Colts interception led to question on whether New England Patriots deflated balls - ESPN Boston

Just a weird story. Colts LB Jackson gave ball to Indy equipment guy who thought the ball was deflated. He showed Pagano (who said he thought the ball was fine) and alerted the GM who alerted the NFL who alerted the refs at halftime.

Nothing in the story about what the refs did or didn't do at halftime, but I would guess that they weighed the balls and didn't find anything odd? Or else this would be a much bigger story by now I would imagine.

Also worth noting the Pats out-scored Indy 28-0 after the balls were weighed. Maybe the product of an angry Belichick/Brady? They did throw to the end zone up 45-7 on 3rd down from the Indy 39 with 5:58 left....and didn't take Brady out until after that play....

 

[gkIrish]

NFL says New England Patriots had under-inflated footballs in AFC championship game - ESPN Boston

Idk what B.S. wizards keeps talking about with balls not being under team control but everything I read says each teams uses their own balls on offense.

I'm not saying there should be a forfeit but this seems like clear cheating to me.

 

[Irish Fam]

if it is found that the patriots purposely cheated, the nfl must come down with the hammer of thor.

keep in mind, this is the same nfl that wanted to suspend marshawn lynch, a flat out superstar, for the nfc championship game for wearing gold cleats...

I am incredibly close to calling quits on the nfl until goodell is gone and substantial changes are made

 

[phillyirish]

Patriots are in for a rude awakening. Seriously we might be talking about a 30, maybe even 35k dollar fine. That will really teach them a lesson and definitely hinder their future as a competitive franchise.

 

[Nick Setta]

Patriots won a superbowl due to a terrible call in 02. Hopefully Sherman can lay the smackdown on Brady,

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

What don't get is how Kraft keeps getting free pass. It's clear that belichick doesn't care about his reputation. He basically embraces it. But Kraft needs to be held accountable at some point for all this. This franchise is the most pathetic in pro sports, and I'm including the browns and clippers.

 

[Irish Insanity]

They cheated, again. Affecting the final outcome or not, they did. My question now is, what have they done that hasn't been found over the last 10 years.

 

[Irish#1]

Indianapolis Colts interception led to question on whether New England Patriots deflated balls - ESPN Boston

Just a weird story. Colts LB Jackson gave ball to Indy equipment guy who thought the ball was deflated. He showed Pagano (who said he thought the ball was fine) and alerted the GM who alerted the NFL who alerted the refs at halftime.

Nothing in the story about what the refs did or didn't do at halftime, but I would guess that they weighed the balls and didn't find anything odd? Or else this would be a much bigger story by now I would imagine.

Also worth noting the Pats out-scored Indy 28-0 after the balls were weighed. Maybe the product of an angry Belichick/Brady? They did throw to the end zone up 45-7 on 3rd down from the Indy 39 with 5:58 left....and didn't take Brady out until after that play....

He does that all the time regardless of who they're playing. The inflation of the balls didn't have much to do at all with the outcome of the game. Hats off to the Pats for winning. I will say that this is just another example of why the Pats are loathed by so many. Why is Belicheck always cheating? Given his track record I would say it's unnecessary. Does he do it when he thinks he may lose? What's his motivation?

 

[Irish YJ]

if it is found that the patriots purposely cheated, the nfl must come down with the hammer of thor.

keep in mind, this is the same nfl that wanted to suspend marshawn lynch, a flat out superstar, for the nfc championship game for wearing gold cleats...

I am incredibly close to calling quits on the nfl until goodell is gone and substantial changes are made

I'd say 11 of 12 balls is on purpose....
Shameful

 

[wizards8507]

I lovelovelove this.

Let's take a step back and visit Logic Land for a second.

1. HOW did the Patriots "intentionally" deflate footballs when they were inspected by the officials prior to the start of the game and then remained in the custody of the ball attendant for the rest of it?

2. WHY would the Patriots "intentionally" deflate footballs on a relatively warm January night when they're going with a run-heavy offense?

3. WHY have the Colts' footballs not also been measured?

4. Learn physics. A football filled to 12.5 PSI at 72 degrees left to sit outside in 30 degrees for several hours will, by the very laws of physics, be BELOW 12.5 PSI over the course of the game.

5. Apparently it's standard practice for the referees themselves to take air out of footballs before/during games.

Aaron Rodgers of Green Bay Packers upset referees take air out of footballs - ESPN

 

[gkIrish]

I lovelovelove this.

Let's take a step back and visit Logic Land for a second.

1. HOW did the Patriots "intentionally" deflate footballs when they were inspected by the officials prior to the start of the game and then remained in the custody of the ball attendant for the rest of it?

The BALL ATTENDANTS ARE PATRIOTS EMPLOYEES. They are paid by the NFL but are typically sons of members of the Patriots organization.

2. WHY would the Patriots "intentionally" deflate footballs on a relatively warm January night when they're going with a run-heavy offense?

THE PATRIOTS AND COLTS DO NOT USE THE SAME BALLS ON OFFENSE. Teams are allowed to break in the balls prior to being weighed but after being weighed they are not allowed to be altered.

3. WHY have the Colts' footballs not also been measured?

BECAUSE NO ONE ON THE PATRIOTS IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT COLTS BALLS WERE POSSIBLY DEFLATED JUST BY HOLDING IT.

4. Learn physics. A football filled to 12.5 PSI at 72 degrees left to sit outside in 30 degrees for several hours will, by the very laws of physics, be BELOW 12.5 PSI over the course of the game.

"12 game balls were inflated significantly below the NFL's requirements, league sources involved and familiar with the investigation of Sunday's AFC Championship Game told ESPN" That probably means more than natural causes. EDIT: TWO PSI LIGHTER

5. Apparently it's standard practice for the referees themselves to take air out of footballs before/during games.

Aaron Rodgers of Green Bay Packers upset referees take air out of footballs - ESPN

That article doesn't say anything about when they are deflated. It infers they are deflated at the weigh-in. Rodgers likes his ball to be inflated to the max. The standard weight is not the max. And it's a whole different issue if the referees do it to ALL the balls than if the Patriots do it to their OWN balls

Dude...spin it however you want. They cheated. And honestly the score should have no bearing on the penalty. If this was a 3 point game people would be reacting differently.

 

[connor_in]

It's weird that physics only apparently works 11 out of 12 times.

Must be why only SOME planes and ships disappear into the Bermuda Triangle.

 

[bkess8]

I don't think it affected the outcome of the game but this is just another black eye for the cheating Patriots. Hopefully the NFL takes this matter seriously!

 

[IrishLion]

How should any punishment on this compare to Bountygate?

I think it should be right on par. Bountygate was an issue of player safety, but didn't effect the actual competition of the game in a way that gave anyone an advantage.

Inflategate was obviously an attempt at a true competitive advantage. I think the punishments from Bountygate could be imposed here, and that would seem about fair.

 

[wizards8507]

Dude...spin it however you want. They cheated. And honestly the score should have no bearing on the penalty. If this was a 3 point game people would be reacting differently.

My engineering friends (by no means Patriots fans) said a drop from 70 degrees to 40 degrees is worth 2 PSI. That would represent a significant drop through no intent of the Patriots.

 

[wizards8507]

Now the Baltimore Ravens, who lost to the Patriots in the divisional round of the playoffs, believe that kicking balls they used during the game were under-inflated. CBS Sports reports that the Ravens kicking and punting units believed that the kicking balls weren’t getting its normal depth and distance.

11 Of Patriots’ Allotted Game Footballs Under-Inflated, Report Says « CBS Connecticut

 

[pkt77242]

I can't believe that I am going to say this but I am with Wizard on this, unless the Patriots admitted to doing it or they have video proof it is completely plausible that the drop was caused by change in temp. If the balls measured 12.5 PSI inside at 75 degrees and then were taken outside to 30 degrees the PSI would drop. Also footballs lose air pressure from natural use during the game. So unless they have video evidence or someone has admitted to doing it, then I don't see the problem.


Edit: Not to say that the Patriots wouldn't cheat just that without testimony/video proof there is a plausible reason for the drop in PSI.

 

[Irish Insanity]

My engineering friends (by no means Patriots fans) said a drop from 70 degrees to 40 degrees is worth 2 PSI. That would represent a significant drop through no intent of the Patriots.

So explain why I read that only the balls on the Pats sidelines were down 2 psi but the ones on the Colts weren't.

 

[pkt77242]

So explain why I read that only the balls on the Pats sidelines were down 2 psi but the ones on the Colts weren't.

3 and outs don't allow enough time for the balls to deflate from usage.

I thought that they didn't test the Colts balls? Also if they were inflated to a slightly higher number say 13.5 initially (maybe Luck is like Rodgers and likes his balls full) then it might only fall to the minimum (12.5) or so. Though in all seriousness balls do deflate from usage and the Colts really didn't use their balls all that much.

 

[wizards8507]

So explain why I read that only the balls on the Pats sidelines were down 2 psi but the ones on the Colts weren't.

Did you read that? I haven't seen anything that said the Colts balls were tested.

The initial acceptable range is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. Maybe the Colts' balls started on the high end closer to 13.5 and the Patriots kept their closer to 12.5. Brady has expressed in the past that he likes a softer ball so maybe the Patriots, as a general rule, only inflate their balls the bare minimum and then if the weather takes them down further over the course of the game, so be it. Maybe the Colts add air to their balls over the course of the game (legal if they keep it in range).

Regardless, it's a mathematical fact that the Colts balls would have lost pressure if initially measured indoors and then taken out in the cold. If their balls were in the acceptable range on the field then they were either adding air (allowable) or they were over-inflated to begin with.

 

[GoldenDomer]

The only opinion I hate in this matter is, "It was 45-7, the ball made no difference". Right, but if there was a calculated decision to deflate the balls, then it occurred before the 1st snap of the game, and if the score had been close, this would really bad for the Pats.

 

[gkIrish]

My engineering friends (by no means Patriots fans) said a drop from 70 degrees to 40 degrees is worth 2 PSI. That would represent a significant drop through no intent of the Patriots.

Yeah except

1. There's no evidence the Colts' balls were similarly deflated.
2. This is magically the first time anyone has ever noticed the balls deflated despite there being hundreds, if not thousands of games being played under similar temperatures?
3. One of the balls magically defied the laws of physics?
4. It's not like the balls are 40 degrees. They are constantly wiped down and kept in a bag with the other balls. Which means they are almost certainly a lot warmer than the outside temperature.

 

[wizards8507]

The only opinion I hate in this matter is, "It was 45-7, the ball made no difference". Right, but if there was a calculated decision to deflate the balls, then it occurred before the 1st snap of the game, and if the score had been close, this would really bad for the Pats.

Even if they intentionally did it (which I don't believe they did--see my other posts on that), all of this presupposes that a deflated ball is advantageous. Aaron Rodgers just came out saying he overinflates his footballs all the time to see if he can get away with it, just because he prefers it that way. Should the Packers lose draft picks?

"I have a major problem with the way it goes down, to be honest with you," Rodgers said Tuesday on his ESPN Milwaukee radio show. "The majority of the time, they take air out of the football. I think that, for me, is a disadvantage."

Rodgers said he likes the ball to be inflated because of his strong grip pressure and large hand size but doesn't believe that's the norm.

"The majority of quarterbacks, I would say more than half, are maybe on the other end of the spectrum and like it on the flatter side," he said on his show. "My belief is that there should be a minimum air-pressure requirement but not a maximum. There's no advantage, in my opinion -- we're not kicking the football -- there's no advantage in having a pumped-up football.

"There is, if you don't have strong grip pressure or smaller hands, an advantage to having a flat football, though, because that is easier to throw. So I think that is something they need to look at. There should be a minimum on the air pressure but not a maximum. Every game they're taking air out of the footballs I'm throwing, and I think that's a disadvantage for the way that I like them prepped."

Aaron Rodgers of Green Bay Packers upset referees take air out of footballs - ESPN

 

[gkIrish]

Even if they intentionally did it (which I don't believe they did--see my other posts on that), all of this presupposes that a deflated ball is advantageous. Aaron Rodgers just came out saying he overinflates his footballs all the time to see if he can get away with it, just because he prefers it that way. Should the Packers lose draft picks?


Aaron Rodgers of Green Bay Packers upset referees take air out of footballs - ESPN

Please show me where Aaron Rodgers said he overinflates the footballs just to see if he can get away with it.

 

[wizards8507]

1. There's no evidence the Colts' balls were similarly deflated.

We don't know that they weren't either. Has there been any credible information that says the Colts balls were tested, and under what conditions?

2. This is magically the first time anyone has ever noticed the balls deflated despite there being hundreds, if not thousands of games being played under similar temperatures?

That's kind of my point. Tom Brady has played in 28 playoff games and however many November/December regular season games and this has never come up before. Why did he need some magical advantage on January 18, 2015 that he's never needed in the past, especially considering that it was relatively mild that night?

3. One of the balls magically defied the laws of physics?

If one ball started at 13.5 and the rest of them started at 12.6, then it's perfectly reasonable that the 13.5 may have stayed in range while the others did not. It's also possible that one ball didn't see any game action. USE and time, in addition to the weather, would be a natural cause of deflation.

4. It's not like the balls are 40 degrees. They are constantly wiped down and kept in a bag with the other balls. Which means they are almost certainly a lot warmer than the outside temperature.

This is all the wildcard in the whole thing. We don't know when, where, or under what conditions the balls were tested either initially, during the game, or Tuesday afternoon. Way too many variables to say "they definitely did this and they definitely did it on purpose."

 

[pkt77242]

 

[wizards8507]

Please show me where Aaron Rodgers said he overinflates the footballs just to see if he can get away with it.

I never claimed to be directly quoting him. Why else would the referees deflate Packer footballs (and Rodgers be pissed about it) other than the Packers intentionally inflate the balls above the allowable range?