Newt Gingrich

stonebreakerwasgod

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You just summarized exactly what Reaganonmics did.

The rich got richer...the middle class declined...the poor got poorer.
Their tax burden declined AS DID THEIR SHARE OF OVERALL INCOME.

Thanks...you getting this data saved me so much time in proving my point. Whew.



That is true they paid more. They also paid more because their share of the pie grew, grew, grew...while the rest of the country stagnated.

You sure you are not secretly a socialist. That's a powerful argument you just made against Reagan... I am impressed.

If you look at the CATO institute site concerning the kennedy/reagon tax cuts, it says differently about tax cuts for the rich increasing taxes on lower class...it totallly disproves Paul Krugman's analysis that the left has used for years.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Clinton raised taxes early on and the economy boomed and tax revenues increased. That is a historical fact. So, what exactly is your point?



Tax cuts can provide temporary boosts in the economy as consumption increases...this is true. However, tax cuts do not cause revenues to increase in the long run. If they did, we would have a negative tax rate. :)

Clinton also benefitted from the earlier years of investment and a strong economy. None of the examples I gave had that benefit.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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He did what he had to where he had to. It took Bush Sr years to agree to send troops to Bosnia.




Well it's been proven to not be true. In fact the man heading that area up was clear (since we caught him alive)...those plans never continued past 1991.

I don't blame him for not going sooner, We should have let the mighty Europeans handle that one. Problem is, they look to us to take the lead, even when we shouldn't. Of course, they abandon us when it suits them.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Education on a subject is not elitism.

For instance, my mother is a doctor. She is clear that placing butter on a burn is not beneficial. MILLIONS of people believe otherwise.

Is she being elitist? No. She's just right.

I don't have a "slant" on the Cold War. I have read the information that has been released on this topic. It is clear, Russia was on the decline.

People will believe whatever they want when they don't get educated about an issue.

I got educated about it. I am not offering opinions. I am merely stating the facts as they are known today.

Back in the 80's it was believed the Soviet Union could continue on for another 20-50 years with no issues. They were wrong back then, but they only had opinion.

That being said, when analysts at the time reviewed Soviet Build ups, they did NOT coincide with U.S. build ups...they coincided with changes in power in the Politburo.

We respect your opinion, but that is exactly what it is. Other people have different views about global warming, the cold war, and economic theory. The facts you state about Kennedy and Reagan has been disproven by lengthy research and studies. It is a simple matter of which expert/theory each person subscribes to. What happens is that people get stuck in believing that their "facts" are the only ones that are correct. That is the problem those who don't believe global warming can be solved by man is facing. They don't want to admit that they could be wrong!
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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We respect your opinion, but that is exactly what it is. Other people have different views about global warming, the cold war, and economic theory.

The experts don't disagree on the Cold War's end. The ignorant disagree with the experts.

The facts you state about Kennedy and Reagan has been disproven by lengthy research and studies. It is a simple matter of which expert/theory each person subscribes to.

Actually, no. It has been proven that their cuts spurred short term growth. It has not been proven that the cuts sustained growth.

What happens is that people get stuck in believing that their "facts" are the only ones that are correct.

Facts are facts...they are not disputable... That is why they are facts.

That is the problem those who don't believe global warming can be solved by man is facing. They don't want to admit that they could be wrong!

Global warming is a pattern, but it is not a fact in the same sense as Politburo notes.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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If you look at the CATO institute site concerning the kennedy/reagon tax cuts, it says differently about tax cuts for the rich increasing taxes on lower class...it totallly disproves Paul Krugman's analysis that the left has used for years.

Cato, Heritage, Progressive Policy Institute... All are funded by special interest groups...liberal, moderate, conservative... They paid to give opionions. Yet they all have opinions that differ using the same set of data. So who's right?
 

IRISHDODGER

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The experts don't disagree on the Cold War's end. The ignorant disagree with the experts.



Actually, no. It has been proven that their cuts spurred short term growth. It has not been proven that the cuts sustained growth.



Facts are facts...they are not disputable... That is why they are facts.



Global warming is a pattern, but it is not a fact in the same sense as Politburo notes.


No, not short term growth. In 1983, the final yr of the Reagan tax cuts went into effect, the U.S. economy commenced a 7-yr period of uninterrupted growth. This was the biggest peacetime economic boom in U.S. history thus far.

Throughout the 80s we had low inflation & low unemployment. Reagan inherited a quagmire of "malaise" whereas Clinton inherited a recession that had already begun its recovery. Despite sporadic ups & downs, including the steep fall of Black Monday in October 1987, the stock mkt. more than doubled in value. The double-digit price increases of the Carter years simply vanished; inflation became an insignificant problem of the Reagan era.

I'll say it again, Reagan promised to reduce the inflation rate, and it came down. He promised to cut taxes, and he did. He said that tax cuts would lead to an economic recovery, & they did. He said he would reduce unemployment, and it happened. He said he would lower interest reates, and they declined. That's a lot of fulfilled promises for a politician. And of course his best quote during the 1980 campaign, "When your neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. When you lose your job, it's a depression. When Jimmy Carter loses his job, it'll be a recovery." Even Bush Jr has presided over a far better economy than Carter could ever have hoped for. And that would be the case w/ or w/o the Iraq war.
 

IRISHDODGER

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You just summarized exactly what Reaganonmics did.

The rich got richer...the middle class declined...the poor got poorer.
Their tax burden declined AS DID THEIR SHARE OF OVERALL INCOME.

Thanks...you getting this data saved me so much time in proving my point. Whew.



That is true they paid more. They also paid more because their share of the pie grew, grew, grew...while the rest of the country stagnated.

You sure you are not secretly a socialist. That's a powerful argument you just made against Reagan... I am impressed.

Nah, I'm afraid it's nothing like socialism. The rich still had total income that rose, but even though their marginal rates were lower, they ended up paying more to the IRS. Which considering their added wealth, I'm sure that was an improvement over Jimmy Carter & his "gilded age economy". LOL

Maybe you speak to the declining middle-class which would make more sense. Unfortunately for Reagan critics, their plight is an occasion for celebration, not alarm. The reason is that during the Reagan era, a substantial number of middle-class Americans became rich. They moved up rather than down. The percentage of families earning more than $50,000 in 1990 dollars rose by 5 pts. from 30.9% to nearly 35.9%. During the 1980s, millions of middle-class Americans disappeared into the ranks of the affluent. When Reagan came to office, fewer than 5,000 people listed annual income as $1 million or above; when he left, more than 35,000 people did. In 1980 there were too few billionaires to count; by 1989, there were over fifty.

As for the poor, the poverty rate was 14% in 1981. It fell to 12.8% in 1989. The average real income of the poorest 5th of the population, as measured in 1989 dollars, increased from $6,494 in 1980 to $6,994 in 1989. Why such a small increase? The reason is that the majority of poor people do not work (imagine that) - they are not, strictly speaking, part of the economy - & therefore when the economy grows, they do not benefit from that growth. JFK may have said "A rising tide lifts all boats" but for this to happen, the boats have to be in the water! Oh yeah, it's hard to benefit from tax cuts when you don't pay taxes.
 
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IRISHDODGER

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Ah, I know the one you are talking about. Yeah, it got disproven... But it does prove that conspiracy theories are far more fun that the truth...which tends to be too boring.

Agreed. But it is odd that an airport of that size is located in a town of 5,000. :wink:
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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The experts don't disagree on the Cold War's end. The ignorant disagree with the experts.



Actually, no. It has been proven that their cuts spurred short term growth. It has not been proven that the cuts sustained growth.



Facts are facts...they are not disputable... That is why they are facts.



Global warming is a pattern, but it is not a fact in the same sense as Politburo notes.

These are nice points, unfortunately they are very disputable. Facts are what occured in history, WHY they occured is opinion. So called experts have different viewpoints and agendas, so it would seem likely that people would tend to favor experts who follow their own beliefs. So which expert is right? To say that those who you believe are right, while not giving any validity to other expert views is hard to fathom.
You'll have to do more than this to convince me that high taxes on the "wealthy" and middle class is beneficial. It takes away the ability and incentive to invest and grow more wealth for the economy as a whole. This is turn spurs more tax revenues as economic activity increases. Anything to the contrary just smacks the face of common sense. I do hope you go to the CATO institute website, you might get a sense of how your side skewed data, at least according to them. Tax cuts do spur short term growth, as does cutting interest rates. At some point, the rise in activity levels off. What hurts stable growth is tax hikes, which tends to take longer to have the negative effect.
As far as global warming goes, the models are created with so many variables, limits, and assumptions that it seems implausible to have an accurate predictor. Especially when the "experts" don't include factors that others deem important. I have come accross several scientists who believe that the models used are not conclusive at best, and far from accurate at worst.
 
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stonebreakerwasgod

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Cato, Heritage, Progressive Policy Institute... All are funded by special interest groups...liberal, moderate, conservative... They paid to give opionions. Yet they all have opinions that differ using the same set of data. So who's right?

I agree, that's why I have a hard time understanding those who don't respect competing views. I don't know if anyone is right, but having credibility is one factor, as is explaining what went into the studies, and why. What is also interesting is when it is compared to other studies, and it is explained what was left out. Krugman did a study that was in error, the NYT, who would have supported his conclusions, only changed the data in a later night edition. On subsequent days, they never issued an editors note or ran a small piece on what was stated in the early editions. When that stuff happens, I tend to get a little leary of the study, and the agenda behind it.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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No, not short term growth. In 1983, the final yr of the Reagan tax cuts went into effect, the U.S. economy commenced a 7-yr period of uninterrupted growth. This was the biggest peacetime economic boom in U.S. history thus far.

Tax cuts do not CAUSE long term growth. They cause short term growth. The economy DID expand for many reasons, most were not tax cuts.

Actually, the longest economic expansion in history was Clinton's...and it occured on the back of his tax increase. Hmmm... In terms of year-to-year growth overall it's basically a tie, since the US economy grows at ~2.8% per year over pretty much any 12 year period in history.

Throughout the 80s we had low inflation & low unemployment.

Throughout the 90's it was lower.


Despite sporadic ups & downs, including the steep fall of Black Monday in October 1987, the stock mkt. more than doubled in value.

Depite the ups and downs it quadroupled under Clinton. ;) If you include the crash, it's still more than double.

The double-digit price increases of the Carter years simply vanished; inflation became an insignificant problem of the Reagan era.

Actually, it was a bit higher than economists would like...but nice try.
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx

I'll say it again, Reagan promised to reduce the inflation rate, and it came down.

Thanks to the Fed...yes.

He said that tax cuts would lead to an economic recovery, & they did.

You can claim cause-and-effect all you like, but the proof is simply not there.

I would argue that his INCREASING government spending HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars per year to feed the Private Sector did the trick. In fact, you will find economists agree on that.

He said he would reduce unemployment, and it happened. He said he would lower interest reates, and they declined. That's a lot of fulfilled promises for a politician.

Luck happens. He promised much that he as President could not deliver. He got lucky. Clinton promised the same things and better results came about. Yet all I hear are those on the right saying it was a fluke or he had nothing to do with it, yadda yadda...

And of course his best quote during the 1980 campaign, "When your neighbor loses his job, it's a recession. When you lose your job, it's a depression. When Jimmy Carter loses his job, it'll be a recovery." Even Bush Jr has presided over a far better economy than Carter could ever have hoped for. And that would be the case w/ or w/o the Iraq war.

Carter was not "smart" enough to float the economy on credit it seems. Reagan boosted government spending to unprecedented heights...and that type of welfare spurred growth. Well duh...if you take out your credit card and spend you too will feel rich.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Tax cuts do not CAUSE long term growth. They cause short term growth. The economy DID expand for many reasons, most were not tax cuts.

Actually, the longest economic expansion in history was Clinton's...and it occured on the back of his tax increase. Hmmm... In terms of year-to-year growth overall it's basically a tie, since the US economy grows at ~2.8% per year over pretty much any 12 year period in history.



Throughout the 90's it was lower.




Depite the ups and downs it quadroupled under Clinton. ;) If you include the crash, it's still more than double.



Actually, it was a bit higher than economists would like...but nice try.
http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx



Thanks to the Fed...yes.



You can claim cause-and-effect all you like, but the proof is simply not there.

I would argue that his INCREASING government spending HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars per year to feed the Private Sector did the trick. In fact, you will find economists agree on that.



Luck happens. He promised much that he as President could not deliver. He got lucky. Clinton promised the same things and better results came about. Yet all I hear are those on the right saying it was a fluke or he had nothing to do with it, yadda yadda...



Carter was not "smart" enough to float the economy on credit it seems. Reagan boosted government spending to unprecedented heights...and that type of welfare spurred growth. Well duh...if you take out your credit card and spend you too will feel rich.


I think I see your line of thinking: When positive results happened under Reagan it was luck or due to credit card debt. When positive results happened under Clinton it was b/c he was the next Milton Friedman who could do no wrong. Nice try.

BTW, I wasn't comparing Reagan's success w/ Clinton's when it came to the economy. They were both successful, no question. Look who inherited the worst economy. Reagan inherited Carter's nightmare whereas the economy had already begun it's revival in Bush's last year (many economists from both sides agree to this). And it's laughable that you attribute credit card debt to Reagan's success. If that's the case, just double it, & you get the same result w/ Clinton. Just look at the increased personal bankruptcies & how they no longer carry a stigma.

And to be fair, let's underline the common denominator in both the Reagan & Clinton economies: Alan Greenspan. Of course, you only acknowledge it under Reagan's as if he had no influence in Clinton's economy. And you know, Clinton had every right to replace him if he deemed necessary...but he didn't.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Nah, I'm afraid it's nothing like socialism. The rich still had total income that rose, but even though their marginal rates were lower, they ended up paying more to the IRS. Which considering their added wealth, I'm sure that was an improvement over Jimmy Carter & his "gilded age economy". LOL

Of course they paid more...they got richer...

Maybe you speak to the declining middle-class which would make more sense. Unfortunately for Reagan critics, their plight is an occasion for celebration, not alarm. The reason is that during the Reagan era, a substantial number of middle-class Americans became rich. They moved up rather than down. The percentage of families earning more than $50,000 in 1990 dollars rose by 5 pts. from 30.9% to nearly 35.9%. During the 1980s, millions of middle-class Americans disappeared into the ranks of the affluent. When Reagan came to office, fewer than 5,000 people listed annual income as $1 million or above; when he left, more than 35,000 people did. In 1980 there were too few billionaires to count; by 1989, there were over fifty.

If you adjust for inflation, your numbers show the truth, which is the middle class DECLINED. When you look at averge incomes for the top10% of the country you see massive increases in wealth. When you look at those in the bottom 80% (that's right 80% of ALL EARNERS) you see that average wages decreased in REAL terms. You are using NOMINAL numbers not REAL numbers.

Wages for 80% of all Americans dropped during Reagan's tenure. You cannot avoid that...it is the truth.

As for the poor, the poverty rate was 14% in 1981. It fell to 12.8% in 1989.

15.1% to 11.7% for Clinton...

A more interesting figure is that of the people below the mid point of the poverty line increased during Reagan's years. But that's more interesting than anything else.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov22.html


The average real income of the poorest 5th of the population, as measured in 1989 dollars, increased from $6,494 in 1980 to $6,994 in 1989. Why such a small increase? The reason is that the majority of poor people do not work (imagine that) - they are not, strictly speaking, part of the economy - & therefore when the economy grows, they do not benefit from that growth.

That's a nice try, but you know during the Clinton years that same poorest 5th saw an increase of 16.3%.

The income disparity grew dramatically under Clinton too...so families only did marginally better under Clinton. However, wages for those in the middle tiers grew under Clinton rather than shrank. So at least that's something.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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I think I see your line of thinking: When positive results happened under Reagan it was luck or due to credit card debt. When positive results happened under Clinton it was b/c he was the next Milton Friedman who could do no wrong. Nice try.

Reagan massively outspent Clinton. He increased the deficit every year...Clinton lowered it.

It's not a "nice try", it's the God's own truth.

And to be fair, let's underline the common denominator in both the Reagan & Clinton economies: Alan Greenspan. Of course, you only acknowledge it under Reagan's as if he had no influence in Clinton's economy. And you know, Clinton had every right to replace him if he deemed necessary...but he didn't.

I never gave Clinton credit for keeping inflation low. Although, if you want to get into that, you can of course talk about the Deficit as it relates to GDP since it DOES have an effect on inflation and the value of the dollar.

Care to talk about the power of the Dollar under both fellows?
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Here's a fun little graph for everyone to play with...
http://www.kowaldesign.com/budget/

Notice the deficits as a percentage of GDP once you click the "Adjusted for Wealth" button.

I think it's terribly interesting to see the % of Debt vs GDP. from just about 30% to over 50%? Wow.

And I keep hearing how the economy grew (i.e. GDP). So, if the economy really took off like that, then why how did we run up such an enormous tab? And as economists are more than quick to point out, all that spending went somewhere... :)
 

IRISHDODGER

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Reagan massively outspent Clinton. He increased the deficit every year...Clinton lowered it.

I never gave Clinton credit for keeping inflation low. Although, if you want to get into that, you can of course talk about the Deficit as it relates to GDP since it DOES have an effect on inflation and the value of the dollar.

Of course, Reagan outspent Clinton, that's apples & oranges. Tip O'Neill & others made it absolutely clear that there was no way they were going to approve huge defense increases while at he same time voting for huge domestic spending cuts. On this point no amt. of presidential persuasion would change their minds (according to White House domestic advisor, Martin Anderson). Reagan finally accepted the reality that if he wanted a big increase in the defense budget, he would have to leave domsestic spending roughly at existing levels. In a sense, Reagan reconciled himself to presiding over a large federal gov't as the price worth paying for his defense policy.

As a drop in the bucket, he was able to get $35 billion in domestic spending cuts by tying them to the package of across-the-board tax cuts. Congress reluctantly agreed to cutbacks in food stamps, Medicaid, public service jobs, housing subsidies, unemployment compensation, urban mass transit, student loans, and welfare. Of course, all his critics like O'Neill, Sen. Moynihan & Robert Reich protested that he was "soaking the poor to subsidize the rich". These were the same critics who would subsequently blame Reagan for large budget deficits. (I already posted the deal Reagan mistakenly made w/Congress in that for every dollar Reagan would approve in tax increases, Congress would approve three dollars in spending cuts. As Ed Meese described it, the bargain turned out to be a ruse. Congress approved the tax increase, & Reagan signed it. "The country is still waiting for the spending reductions".)

The lesson Reagan learned as gov. of California - if you raise taxes, gov't will immediately find a way to spend the money - was painfully reaffirmed. Next, he established the Grace Commission to investigate waste & fraud in gov't which led to minimal lowering of the deficit b/c a substantial proportion proved politically untenable, b/c they required congressional approval which wasn't about to happen.

Eventually Reagan abandoned any serious effort to reduce domestic spending substantially. There arose a standoff between Reagan & the Dems. The Dems warned of escalating deficits & demanded that Pres. Reagan agree to tax increases & reductions in military spending. After being burned once, Reagan wouldn't agree to any tax increases. He insisted that the defense buildup, costly as it was, was vital to reverse the tide of Soviet expansionism.

Finally, I already addressed the deficit & how Gramm-Rudman legislation (though flawed) placed strict limits on deficit spending & sought to balance the budget by the end of the decade. As a result of economic growth & spending restraint, the deficit in the late 80s began to decline in both absolute terms & as a proportion of the economy. The deficit, which consumed 6.3% of the GDP in '83, shrank to around 3% during '87-'89, which is just where it was when Reagan first took office. During the 1990s, largely due to a continuation of the Reagan economic boom as well as huge defense savings resulting from the end of the cold war, the deficit fell so dramatically that the budget soon balanced itself.

Just ask Barney Frank & Daniel Moynihan. They were convinced that they had been victimized by an ingenious plot. They even accused Reagan & his aides of planning & executing a conspiracy to manufacture gigantic deficits & thus starve the gov't of future revenue. Of course, Reagan didn't pursue this as a positive good; he settled for them as a necessary evil under the circumstances. Clinton never had the kind of Congress (specifically the House) to deal w/ compared to what Reagan had. These jokers had been in power for decades & were fat & happy from tax & spending our hard earned bucks. You or Stonebreaker could've walked into Clinton's presidency (following Bush Sr.) and enjoyed its success w/ nary lifting a finger. Let Greenspan adjust the rates & put the rest on autopilot. What would be interesting would be to see what Clinton would have done following Jimmy Carter in regards to the woeful economy & the underfunded military.
 

notredomer23

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I say all you shut up about this topic its basically just a debate room. Do you guys like arguing that much?
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Here's a fun little graph for everyone to play with...
http://www.kowaldesign.com/budget/

Notice the deficits as a percentage of GDP once you click the "Adjusted for Wealth" button.

I think it's terribly interesting to see the % of Debt vs GDP. from just about 30% to over 50%? Wow.

And I keep hearing how the economy grew (i.e. GDP). So, if the economy really took off like that, then why how did we run up such an enormous tab? And as economists are more than quick to point out, all that spending went somewhere... :)

Congress does the funding you know
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH who did that. Oh yeah, U DID!!


HMMM..this could call for negative rep points!! My inner conservative naked self is feeling a bit nauseous.
 
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IRISHDODGER

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Congress does the funding you know

That's what I've been incl. in my posts, but evidently Reagan is blamed for everything when it comes to spending & budget cuts. Like Tip O'Neill & company had no say in the matter. You can't have it both ways...blaming someone for cutting too much domestic spending & in the same breath blame him for spending too much.
 

IRISHDODGER

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I say all you shut up about this topic its basically just a debate room. Do you guys like arguing that much?

If you don't like it, why are you reading the thread? LMI, Stoney & I are having a spirited debate w/ no namecalling or ill will. Just be glad Goldendomer1977 (aka, Satan's Little Helper) isn't here to spew his venom.

There's just no much too talk about until Spring f'ball starts. We all grew up in the '80s yet have different perspecitves of the gov't at that time. I enjoyed the discussion & agree w/ Stoney, in that facts are facts, but depending on where you stand, they're interpreted differently. That usually leads to folks like us agreeing to disagree & wait for the next new topic 2 debate.

It is funny, that the title of the thread no longer applies to our debate as it drifted to the 2 most polarizing Presidents of our time: Reagan & Clinton. I equate those 2 to the Notre Dame of football & the Duke of basketball b/c they are so polarizing & everyone has an opinion of both.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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The lesson Reagan learned as gov. of California - if you raise taxes, gov't will immediately find a way to spend the money - was painfully reaffirmed.

Clinton proved this wrong in his budgets of '93 and '94 though...he raised taxes on the rich and lowered them on the middle class...then he kept spending increases to the inflation rate...which was slightly slower than the growth in GDP at the time. This caused a Net reduction in the Deficit.

Here's the details:
In August of 1993, Clinton signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, which passed Congress without a single Republican vote. It raised taxes on the wealthiest 1.2% of taxpayers, while cutting taxes on 15 million low-income families and making tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses. Additionally, it mandated that the budget be balanced over a number of years, through the implementation of spending restraints. ...
More Details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993

I fully agree the Dems were just as to blame as Reagan for the increase in spending...but as Clinton proved a President CAN hold the line on spending.

Eventually Reagan abandoned any serious effort to reduce domestic spending substantially. There arose a standoff between Reagan & the Dems. The Dems warned of escalating deficits & demanded that Pres. Reagan agree to tax increases & reductions in military spending. After being burned once, Reagan wouldn't agree to any tax increases. He insisted that the defense buildup, costly as it was, was vital to reverse the tide of Soviet expansionism.

We are in full agreement here...both Reagan and the Dems were complicit in the mass spending of the 80's.

Finally, I already addressed the deficit & how Gramm-Rudman legislation (though flawed) placed strict limits on deficit spending & sought to balance the budget by the end of the decade. As a result of economic growth & spending restraint, the deficit in the late 80s began to decline in both absolute terms & as a proportion of the economy. The deficit, which consumed 6.3% of the GDP in '83, shrank to around 3% during '87-'89, which is just where it was when Reagan first took office.

Which is actually fairly damning when you think about it.

When Reagan came into office the deficit had skyrocketed because of the bad economy. During the 80's as economic growth returned to normal, the deficit shrank to where it was when things were BAD.

During the 1990s, largely due to a continuation of the Reagan economic boom as well as huge defense savings resulting from the end of the cold war, the deficit fell so dramatically that the budget soon balanced itself.

The budget did NOT balance itself. Fiscal restraint by Clinton in 93 and 94 was CRITICAL to this. He raised taxes and used that to pay down the deficit. Debt cuts were spent elsewhere, they did NOT lower the budget...that's a fallacy. That money was REALLOCATED. However, Clinton made a deal with the Dems to keep the budget growth to a minimum.

Then the Republicans came in and for the next 4 years spending continued to remain at those low levels.

Then and only then was the budget balanced. It was through restraint. Economic growth alone could NOT have erased the deficit, since growth was only causing the deficit to remain steady, but never shrink.

Clinton took a hard stand with his own party and it paid off.

You or Stonebreaker could've walked into Clinton's presidency (following Bush Sr.) and enjoyed its success w/ nary lifting a finger. Let Greenspan adjust the rates & put the rest on autopilot.

Actually, had Clinton not taken a hardline with the Dems in 93-94, he never would have enjoyed the success he did throughout his term. Raising taxes on the rich and lowering them on the middle class (yes he lowered them on the middle class), throwing that at the deficit, as well as holding the line on spending allowed the deficit to fall, the dollar to strengthen, and the economy to keep humming along.
 
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leprechaun4life

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I don't see how ya'll do this all the time. I'm still worn out from the evolutionary debate a couple months ago. Props to whoever is representin' conservatives!
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Congress does the funding you know

not exactly the whole truth...

The President submits a budget, he fights for it, Congress proposes their own...the President SHOULD work with both the Senate and the Congress on tweaking it. If the President does not like it, he can veto it.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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That's what I've been incl. in my posts, but evidently Reagan is blamed for everything when it comes to spending & budget cuts. Like Tip O'Neill & company had no say in the matter. You can't have it both ways...blaming someone for cutting too much domestic spending & in the same breath blame him for spending too much.

The Dems in Congress during the 80's spent like Madmen...but Reagan never tried to veto and stop them. Both parties were complicit.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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It seems trivial to try and suggest that Reagan and his policies should not be given credit. The US went from having crappy morale, a crappy ( i love that word) economy with high interest rates, a stagnant economy (remember stagflation), and high unemployment to a properous economy rivaling that of the 50's. Dicke V would call that an NC'r, no contest baby!! Partisan politics aside, Reagan got the country back on track. I call that leadership, standing up strong for policies that made a difference. One can talk all day about how it happened, the important thing is that IT DID happen. Way to go Gipper!
 
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