Any reservations on the "Greatness" of Charlie Weis

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irish4life99

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Great replies Jigga! You hit the nail on the head when you analized FI9 as a jilted fan who wishes to see Weis fail. He believes that Ty was dismissed soley on race and feels that Weis failing would offer justice to him and his race. I don't think anyone is "sold" on the greatness of Weis yet; but I like what I see so far. Only time will tell how this story will play out. However, one thing I'm willing to bet on is CW wont be 11-13 over the next two years!
 

jiggafini19

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irish4life99 said:
You hit the nail on the head when you analized FI9 as a jilted fan who wishes to see Weis fail. He believes that Ty was dismissed soley on race and feels that Weis failing would offer justice to him and his race. I don't think anyone is "sold" on the greatness of Weis yet; but I like what I see so far. Only time will tell how this story will play out. However, one thing I'm willing to bet on is CW wont be 11-13 over the next two years!

It cuts both ways, hence why I don't understand the constant discussion. Perhaps I can convert some folks here...

TW Bashers: You're still bashing him and I think I have a theory why. The Whitlocks, Saunders and various haters of the world demand justification for what Notre Dame did. Did I mention it was over a year ago? Then they give Weis an extension after 9-3 when TW didn't get one after 10-3. Enter intangibles. There is no need to justify what was done. Time will play itself out. Bash him all you like, but there is no need. Time and results will conclude it was the right thing on both counts.

TW Lovers: Interesting bunch you are. I have no idea what your motivation is. In terms of "quantity", he was given 3 years. The "quality" of those three years? Not so good after the first 8 games. Notre Dame could not compete. Your beef is with Notre Dame, not Weis. Regardless, I'm not so sure why this guy is so hated and loved at the same time by so many. He landed on his feet rather fast and he's getting paid out the ass. The players have moved on, the school has moved on and I'm sure TW couldn't give two sh*ts about Notre Dame.

For God's sake, the two teams PLAYED each other and Notre Dame won 36-17. What more do you want for closure?

So, in conclusion: Haters, you come across as insecure about ND's decision and feel the need to justify it. Ass kissers, you guys are just weird. Why wouldn't you want ND to be successful unless you have direct ties to TW? I'm not sure what drives you to carry the cross for this man nor do I understand why people just won't shut up about it. Just because you have free speech and a forum doesn't make your argument relevant. Because in regards to the situation at hand, only time will tell and the argument thus ends the same way every time:

WE JUST DON'T KNOW YET!!!

You're either with Notre Dame or against it, one or the other. If you love Ty and don't like what happened, get off the damn bus. And win or lose, please don't come back.
 
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Fighting_Irish9

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jiggafini19 said:
Notre Dame Fighting Irish
Is Charlie Weis overrated?
02/21/06
Charlie Weis became head coach of the Notre Dame Fighting Irish football program last year amidst much fanfare. This was largely due to the fact that in 15 years as an assistant coach in the NFL, Weis had been part of four Super Bowl championships and had helped develop the careers of such superstars as Tom Brady, Deion Branch, Keyshawn Johnson, and Curtis Martin. When the '78 ND grad agreed to return to his alma mater, Irish players, fans, and alumni could only hope that he would bring the same kind of success to South Bend.
They didn't have to wait long for Weis to deliver results. A convincing 42-21 victory over #23 Pitt in the season opener followed a week later by a 17-10 triumph against bitter-rival Michigan (then ranked #3) had the Irish faithful talking about possible bowl bids way back in September. After Notre Dame cruised to a win against #22 Purdue a couple of weeks later, many sports analysts picked the Irish to upset #1 USC in their October 15 meeting. Even though the Trojans were able to escape South Bend with their perfect record intact thanks to a last-second touchdown, Weis' status as Notre Dame's newest savior was sealed.
At the same time, however, Weis' critics started becoming more and more vocal, especially when the university gave the coach a 10-year contract extension less than two months into the season. Comparisons to predecessor Ty Willingham inevitably arose, and the attacks began. Willingham got off to an 8-0 start in his first season at Notre Dame; Weis was 7-2. Weis was winning with players that Willingham helped recruit (including Brady Quinn) or develop. The combined record of the seven teams Notre Dame had beaten at that point was a sub-par 17-24. In other words, Weis was overrated.
Weis' supporters point to the fact that Quinn never got going in Willingham's offense. In 2004 under Willingham, Quinn threw for 2586 yards and 17 touchdowns. In 2005 with Weis, Quinn threw for an incredible 3919 yards and 32 touchdowns, putting him at number three in the nation in both categories. The critics countered that this could be due as much to the natural course of Quinn's development and maturity as an upperclassman than anything special that Weis did. They pointed to a similar jump in statistical output from Texas' Vince Young, who threw for 1849 yards and 12 touchdowns in '04 as a sophomore, then came back and threw for 3036 yards and 26 touchdowns in '05 as a junior.
So what's the correct assessment of Weis? Well, just as it's not fair to credit the new coach with every single statistical improvement shown by the team and players, it's not fair to deny him the credit by passing those improvements off as the expected consequences of player maturity.
In addition, the total measure of a coach's value to the team is not to be found in records and stats alone. Coaches bring a certain amount of "intangibles" to the table, just as players do. In Weis' case, it's the intangibles that separate him from his colleagues and make him deserving of all the accolades he has received. Weis has had the respect of his players from Day One, and that's not something that every coach can lay claim to. It's because of Weis that Quinn will return to the Notre Dame Fighting Irish for his senior season, thereby giving the Irish a realistic shot at the National Championship. It's because of Weis that 10 of the top 150 high school prospects in the country will be playing ball at Notre Dame next season. It's because of Weis that the Notre Dame football program will be in the national spotlight for the entire 2006 season.
Taking all of this into consideration, it seems that the use of the term "overrated" is not justified in Weis' case.


Great article and I agree, You can't give Weis all the Credit, Thus the I'm not sold on Weis's greatness.

I have never said I thought Willingham was a good coach, I'm just not jumping on the Weis is great BAndwagon, by not calling him great doesn't mean I'm critical of him. I'm happy with the job he did, I'm critical of the people overstating his accomplishments at this time.
 
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Fighting_Irish9

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jiggafini19 said:
WE JUST DON'T KNOW YET!!!

I'll get to the rest of your posts when I have more time, but this is my exact point.

We Just Don't Know Yet!!!!

This wasn't intended to be a thread about Willingham, it was intended to discuss the "how sold on Weis's Greatness" you guys are. People seem to always want to compare him to Willingham when calling him great which I just don't understand when they are trying to tell you how bad Willingham was in the same breathe...

If you think he is better than Willingham does that make him great?
Regardless of Willingham, I don't think Weis has done anything to show me he is a Great HEAD COACH, he did a good job his first year no doubt but I just don't overlook

Veteran experienced offense that was recruited to run a pro-style offense
11 returning offenive starters
3rd year starting QB
Weakest schedule ND has played in decades
0 top 25 wins
 

jiggafini19

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So the MEDIA is your problem?

If that's the case, then you and I are in complete agreement. Go back through this thread and you'll see I was with you until the Ty stuff came into the conversation. I take some of your opinions about this recruiting class with a grain of salt because, if anything, I think it is both UNDER and OVER rated. Just depends on what you read.

Everything gets overhyped. Vince Young. Guess what folks? The guy was good all year. After Texas won the Rose Bowl, ESPN jumped off of USC's nuts and starting kissing Longhorn ass like there was no tomorrow.

There is not much middle of the road coverage out there anymore. They're trying to sell, not write well.

Weis' attitude is what sets him apart from Willingham, Davie and even Holtz. Hopefully that translates to his players and their actions on the field.
 
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TexasDomer

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Jig,

Right as usual. I could care less about the recruiting evaluations. They are an incomplete indicator of a player's potential for success, because they fail to take into account the fit with a program's system. Weis is taking the same approach as the Patriots did with drafting and free agent signings--not to take the best athlete available, but the best athlete for the system, with the brains and the character they wanted as an organization.

It's not the 11 best, but the best 11, that matter. Weis knows what he wants and what will work in his system, and it may not always be the 4 star or 5 star guy. The stars are for the recruiting sites to sell subscriptions, and for alumni and fans to brag or complain about the crop.
 
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