(1) I would argue that the anecdotal evidence is widespread enough that it has predictive power.
I agree. Properly-designed opinion polls are scientific enough to predict all sorts of outcomes that rest on inherently subjective factors.
Everyone agrees that Harvard and Stanford carry more weight than an ND degree.
No argument there.
I think many feel the same way about Duke.
Where's your evidence for this? Because the objective degree value data directly contradicts it.
(2) Fair enough. All I'm saying is that if all other things are equal and you are going to walk into an interview as a Duke or ND grad, I think people would assume you were a more elite student for having gone to Duke.
Again, this is simple assertion on your part. Where's your evidence for this? We've discussed here many times why the methodology behind USN&WR's ranking is clownshoes, and how it undervalues ND specifically.
(3) To me, saying Notre Dame is elite is like saying the top 25 football teams are elite. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Princeton are elite.
This is just semantics.
ND is a clear step down, with Vanderbilt, Northwestern and others.
Check out
Payscale's most recent College ROI ranking. Disregarding the engineering schools, ND is close behind Stanford and Harvard, but
ahead of Princeton, Yale, Duke and a whole bunch of other schools that you think are
obviously more elite than ND. Which raises the question of what is considered elite? Because here we have a broad data set clearly indicating that ND grads are getting some very high paying jobs right out of school, yet I'm supposed to disregard this objective evidence in favor of hand-waving about what "everyone" knows to be true? A lot of influential hiring managers apparently haven't gotten the memo that ND isn't elite.
I'm talking about friends at Ibanking firms who say they conduct interviews at UPenn, UVA, UMich and it's hard to get in as a domer.
First, I apologize for my rude reply yesterday. I just get frustrated that I have to keep having this argument
with other Irish fans. Please see above for why I don't think this very small data set of anecdotal evidence is reliable. Jimmymac provided some anecdotal evidence of his own that directly contradicts it.
Also, something the ND admin has been working on is getting students into grad school. When you do a PHD you choose to make less in a lot of cases, and a lot of these schools churn out way more PHD kids than ND does.
That's an
excellent point. We're talking about the reputation of undergraduate degrees here. And a lot of people confuse the quality of a large research university's graduate programs with its undergraduate education-- Michigan and UNC are prime examples. If anything, that supports my argument that, as an undergraduate institution, ND is much more elite than you seem to be giving it credit for.
You can't quantify reputation.
Sure you can.
As noted above, there is a pecking order, and it's my impression, which correspond with US News' rankings, that Duke is ahead of Notre Dame by a good bit.
(1) Do we need to go into why the USN&WR ranking sucks?
(2) Why credit USN&WR over the Payscale data?
ND is ahead of Wharton in those rankings. Do you really think ND grads are looked on more highly than Wharton grads?
Apparently, yes. The Businessweek ranking and the Payscale data indicate that ND grads are getting better jobs.
