ND Recruiting vs SEC

[NDdomer2]

Wow that sucks..... Can we land some of these guys or let them all slip away.....We have to start getting a top 5 class to even get close to beating the SEC..... Get on the ball BK land some players already...... Go Irish Beat Terps

Went to Rivals and looked up the class rankings back to 2002. Keep in mind the SEC has 12 teams.
Year # of SEC schools with a higher ranked Class than ND
2012 5
2011 4
2010 5
2009 8
2008 1
2007 5
2006 3
2005 10
2004 8
2003 6
2002 7

As you can see there is no reason (based off class rankings) that we shouldn't be competitive with the SEC. Maybe not win it, but competitive.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Wow that sucks..... Can we land some of these guys or let them all slip away.....We have to start getting a top 5 class to even get close to beating the SEC..... Get on the ball BK land some players already...... Go Irish Beat Terps

Let them all slip away?? Dude, what Kelly and crew are doing with recruiting at ND is exceptional. Do you realize that, before BK, since the Davie era, ND has won 55% of their games? Those same kids we are recruiting were about 4 years old when the Davie era started.

Kelly took control of a football team with a serious problem on defense. What did he do? He went out and picked up Lynch, Tuitt, Ishaq and more top defensive players.

This year Kelly sees the secondary as the position of need. What does he do? He goes and gets verbals from not only the fastest kid in the country but also the most pure corner prospect available.. Tee and Darby are the best combo ANY team in the country could possibly get at that position. Then he adds in raw athletes like Baratti, Prosise and Turner.

He also said he wants to add playmakers... So he picks up Greenberry, who absolutely sky rocketed up the rankings once given some exposure.

I'm not going to through every player but my point is Kelly is filling areas of need with THE top players in the country and adding athletes around them.

Plus we are still in it for Gunner, Marshall, Banner and plenty of other top guys. I have no problems with Kelly's recruiting whatsoever.

 

[BGIF]

Went to Rivals and looked up the class rankings back to 2002. Keep in mind the SEC has 12 teams.
Year # of SEC schools with a higher ranked Class than ND
2012 5
2011 4
2010 5
2009 8
2008 1
2007 5
2006 3
2005 10
2004 8
2003 6
2002 7

As you can see there is no reason (based off class rankings) that we shouldn't be competitive with the SEC. Maybe not win it, but competitive.

Interesting topic in it's own thread but NOT in a recruit's profile. And not when you neglect to note that the SEC was Oversigning all those years, signed "Special Needs" recruits that didn't pass the NCAA Clearinghouse, "greyshirts", and didn't enroll a lot of those they signed that are included in the rankings you show. With the exception of Matt James, all of ND's signees, enrolled. Why don't you open up a thread on Kelly v the SEC starting with your post?


Thanks GB for the updates on Armstead.

 

[NDdomer2]

ND Recruiting vs SEC

I had posted this in recruit's thread in response to someone saying we will never beat the SEC with our recruiting. BGIF requested it get its own thread.

Went to Rivals and looked up the class rankings back to 2002. Keep in mind the SEC has 12 teams.
Year # of SEC schools with a higher ranked Class than ND
2012 5
2011 4
2010 5
2009 8
2008 1
2007 5
2006 3
2005 10
2004 8
2003 6
2002 7

As you can see there is no reason (based off class rankings) that we shouldn't be competitive with the SEC. Maybe not win it, but competitive.

Interesting topic in it's own thread but NOT in a recruit's profile. And not when you neglect to note that the SEC was Oversigning all those years, signed "Special Needs" recruits that didn't pass the NCAA Clearinghouse, "greyshirts", and didn't enroll a lot of those they signed that are included in the rankings you show. With the exception of Matt James, all of ND's signees, enrolled. Why don't you open up a thread on Kelly v the SEC starting with your post?

 

[NDdomer2]

Interesting topic in it's own thread but NOT in a recruit's profile. And not when you neglect to note that the SEC was Oversigning all those years, signed "Special Needs" recruits that didn't pass the NCAA Clearinghouse, "greyshirts", and didn't enroll a lot of those they signed that are included in the rankings you show. With the exception of Matt James, all of ND's signees, enrolled. Why don't you open up a thread on Kelly v the SEC starting with your post?

Just started the thread but this was posted to show that our recruiting is one of the few things that has been "up to par" with the SEC. Even the years we have had 4 or 5 SEC school's in front of our class they were all or majority top 10 classes.

 

[phillyirish]

Yea seeing how 2006 and 2008 would be the only time we would have finished with a recruiting class in the SEC top 4, we should definitely be able to compete for a solid 3rd place in the SEC..........East.

 

[NDdomer2]

Yea seeing how 2006 and 2008 would be the only time we would have finished with a recruiting class in the SEC top 4, we should definitely be able to compete for a solid 3rd place in the SEC..........East.

Year-Auburn's Class Rank-ND's Class Rank
2009-19-21
2008-20-2
2007-7-8
2006-10-8
2005-13-40

Their 5th Year Senior's from Auburn's NC team were much better, but how many 5th year kids did they have?. True seniors and juniors (by class rank) very even. Our Sophomores hypothetically much more talented. Freshman is a wash. Average class for Auburn during that time frame is 11.8. Average class for ND 15.8. Depending on how many 5th year kids each team brought back the 05 class could matter a lot, or matter none.

My point it the difference is development of the athletes. Maybe Rivals (enter recruiting service) got some guys/classes wrong, but it comes does to developing you players.

 

[koonja]

Went to Rivals and looked up the class rankings back to 2002. Keep in mind the SEC has 12 teams.
Year # of SEC schools with a higher ranked Class than ND
2012 5
2011 4
2010 5
2009 8
2008 1
2007 5
2006 3
2005 10
2004 8
2003 6
2002 7

As you can see there is no reason (based off class rankings) that we shouldn't be competitive with the SEC. Maybe not win it, but competitive.

If you average that up, 5.6 SEC teams have a better recruiting class than us in said year.

So, let's see who we'd compete with in the SEC, going by finishing between the 5th and 6th team:

2002: Between Kentucky and USC
2003:Between Kentucky and Vandy
2004: Between Kentucky and Vandy once again
2005: Again, between Kentucky and Vandy
2006: USC and Vandy
2007: USC and Vandy once again
2008: Tennessee and Kentucky
2009: USC and Vandy
2010: Kentucky and Vandy
Current: Vandy and Tennessee

So basically, if we use this theory we're about as competitive in the SEC as Vandy, Kentucky and USC. Note that this is a flawed because the results of said recruiting class are about 3-4 years behind, but this gives us an idea. I don't have the time to use the matching principle.

 

[NDdomer2]

If you average that up, 5.6 SEC teams have a better recruiting class than us in said year.

So, let's see who we'd compete with in the SEC, going by finishing between the 5th and 6th team:

2002: Between Kentucky and USC
2003:Between Kentucky and Vandy
2004: Between Kentucky and Vandy once again
2005: Again, between Kentucky and Vandy
2006: USC and Vandy
2007: USC and Vandy once again
2008: Tennessee and Kentucky
2009: USC and Vandy
2010: Kentucky and Vandy
Current: Vandy and Tennessee

So basically, if we use this theory we're about as competitive in the SEC as Vandy, Kentucky and USC.

USC was in the conference champ game last year.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Year-Auburn's Class Rank-ND's Class Rank
2009-19-21
2008-20-2
2007-7-8
2006-10-8
2005-13-40

Their 5th Year Senior's from Auburn's NC team were much better, but how many 5th year kids did they have?. True seniors and juniors (by class rank) very even. Our Sophomores hypothetically much more talented. Freshman is a wash. Average class for Auburn during that time frame is 11.8. Average class for ND 15.8. Depending on how many 5th year kids each team brought back the 05 class could matter a lot, or matter none.

My point it the difference is development of the athletes. Maybe Rivals (enter recruiting service) got some guys/classes wrong, but it comes does to developing you players.

This is all logical and I do agree that we have sucked at developing talent, but this is missing one key person, sCam Newton, who was a Juco transfer and carried that team to the title.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

Do recruiting classes count JUCO transfers like, ahem, Cam Newton.

 

[Veer option]

Class rankings and recruit stars do not mean crap. They are merely bragging rights for fans.

 

[koonja]

Class rankings and recruit stars do not mean crap. They are merely bragging rights for fans.

I'll go out on a big limb and go a head and say they do matter, very, very much. According to scout.com, since 2005 every national champion has had a top-10 recruiting class within 3 years of their national championship. Coincidence? If you want to try and spin it that way, sure. Having a top class is one thing, player development and getting that talent to produce is another. If you have both you can compete at the top.

 

[Veer option]

I'll go out on a big limb and go a head and say they do matter, very, very much. According to scout.com, since 2005 every national champion has had a top-10 recruiting class within 3 years of their national championship. Coincidence? If you want to try and spin it that way, sure. Having a top class is one thing, player development and getting that talent to produce is another. If you have both you can compete at the top.

Take Boise State for instance. ND has had much better recruiting class than they could ever get. Yet Boise State habitually beats teams which would give ND fits to play. They have beat Oklahoma, Oregon twice, Oregon State twice, TCU twice, Georgia, Va Tech. Sure their conference schedule is putrid, but they still beat the teams who they are supposed to beat year in and year out. Hell some of their conference opponents would give ND fits.

 

[koonja]

Take Boise State for instance. ND has had much better recruiting class than they could ever get. Yet Boise State habitually beats teams which would give ND fits to play. They have beat Oklahoma, Oregon twice, Oregon State twice, TCU twice, Georgia, Va Tech. Sure their conference schedule is putrid, but they still beat the teams who they are supposed to beat year in and year out. Hell some of their conference opponents would give ND fits.

Boise State has had significantly better coaching. You need great coaching, great recruiting classes (as evident from recent national champs), and a manageable schedule.

 

[ShakeDown]

Take Boise State for instance. ND has had much better recruiting class than they could ever get. Yet Boise State habitually beats teams which would give ND fits to play. They have beat Oklahoma, Oregon twice, Oregon State twice, TCU twice, Georgia, Va Tech. Sure their conference schedule is putrid, but they still beat the teams who they are supposed to beat year in and year out. Hell some of their conference opponents would give ND fits.

There is more than one recipe for a good football team. A great team, as was mentioned, has the talent + player development (coaching, facilities, etc). I refuse to believe that Boise St. would compete in even a semi-competitive conference (ACC) on a regular basis, much less the SEC. Can they get up for one or two big games a year? Sure, because of excellent player development and game strategy. Week in and week out they simply do not have the player depth.

 

[irishtrinity]

Hold up first I am very happy with BK's class last yr.... Thats last yr. tho...

I agree we are going after the right guys this yr.. We just need to land more....

 

[irishog77]

There is more than one recipe for a good football team. A great team, as was mentioned, has the talent + player development (coaching, facilities, etc). I refuse to believe that Boise St. would compete in even a semi-competitive conference (ACC) on a regular basis, much less the SEC. Can they get up for one or two big games a year? Sure, because of excellent player development and game strategy. Week in and week out they simply do not have the player depth.

Exactly.

Let us all (Irish Envy and the college football world as a whole), stop introducing any Boise references into major college football discussions. They've had some nice wins over the last few years. That's it. Period.

Until they compete against some legitimate teams and programs on an almost weekly basis, they are nothing to me other than illegitimate distraction from the real discussion(s) of college football.

(Note- I know Veer and kuehnja weren't making a big pro-Boise argument and I hold no angst towards them. I just get so sick of watching and reading about football and having to put up with columnists, talking heads, and fans perennially trying to talk them into the NC discussion.)