ND past 10 yrs

[irishtrinity]

Just watching ESPN talking about how it's been over 20 yrs etc..

We went to a BCS Bowl in 2005 Fiesta, and 2006 Sugar.. 2002 was a great season also.. Every time i hear it's been 20 yrs i just shake my head.. Tell me how back to back BCS games and going on the road in 2002 beating 2 top 20 teams in 2 weeks for the first time in ND history is bad?

Would winning 2 games really change that much?

I'm very happy with our team had a blast at every game we won. I'm also going to ND for the 4th yr in a row.. So for those cats on ESPN etc. we all hear them I would love nothing more than to beat OU, UM, Mich St, The U, and USC all in one yr.. Then tell me we suck... We have the talent just need Golson to lead us to a BCS bowl win... Go Irish.. Just wanted to see if you guys agree or at least see where I'm coming from..

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I personally don't give two flips about the BCS bowls. We need to be in the NC discussion. We haven't been, sadly, since 93.

 

[Grahambo]

Mike Golic went toe to toe vs Rick Reilly the other day and Reilly made mention about how ND hasn't finished in the AP Final Poll in 20 years (something similar) well, quick research tells me since 1988 (to include that season), ND has finished in the final AP Poll 14 times (if my counting ability is on par). Within that same time, ND finished in the Top 20 all but twice.

Should also make note that in the All-Time AP Poll ranking that takes the poll all the way back since it's inception since 1936, ND ranks 4th. That's still with the decline in the past 20 years.

 

[irishpat183]

I personally don't give two flips about the BCS bowls. We need to be in the NC discussion. We haven't been, sadly, since 93.

Exactly. And we didn't win them anyway...LSU throttled us, they had better athletes and it was very clear. So did OSU the year before (we were outclassed athletically in that game as well...Ginn torched us). And 2002 wasn't all that great...sheesh. Lost to a horrible BC team and then got stomped the final two games.

Good seasons? yeah, but I dont' brag about them...cause at the end of the day, we lost all those bowl games.

BCS bowls are nice, but just masking the real problem, we truly haven't been a threat for a title in a long time.

Now, I'm hoping next season is our year.

 

[irishpat183]

And I had almost erased that LSU Sugar stomping we got from my mind....THANKS ALOT!

LOL

 

[Irish YJ]

If we are not in the NC discussion going into late Oct at least once every 3 years, we are not where we need to be.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Part of the problem is that the fan base is so big that ND gets invited to a lot of bowls that other teams with similar records don't. Naturally it's going to be slated against tougher competition, all other things being equal. Ergo, ND's overall bowl record suffers.

For example, only ND would ever go to the Fiesta Bowl 6-4-1.

 

[irishtrinity]

So NC talk or Bust..

 

[GreatGolson]

If we are not in the NC discussion going into late Oct at least once every 3 years, we are not where we need to be.

This. This is how we will know if we are back

 

[irish1958]

And I had almost erased that LSU Sugar stomping we got from my mind....THANKS ALOT!

LOL

I still haven't gotten over the '73 Orange Bowl disaster.

 

[Irish YJ]

So NC talk or Bust..

Yes, at least "talk". Not saying we have to win it every three years, but we need to be contenders. We need to be right in there Bama, LSU, USC, etc., etc.. I can accept one loss, two losses, but that's about it. With the preferential treatment we receive, no reason why we should not be BCS bound every couple years. We're headed in the right direction. We have started to accumulate size, speed, talent, now it's just development, coaching, and winning. Things are coming together, and IMO, if BK can take care of the development and coaching, winning will come. Then it's just about reloading every year!

 

[BurningRiver]

I personally don't give two flips about the BCS bowls. We need to be in the NC discussion. We haven't been, sadly, since 93.

Well technically we were in the national title discussion in 2006. I believe we started the season ranked #2 (maybe #3, I don't remember), and had an outside shot to play in the NC if we had made a good showing in a win over #5(?) USC at the end of the year. I believe the Florida team that went on to roll OSU in the National Championship had a loss, so an 11-1 Notre Dame team would've at least been in the discussion.

 

[Riddickulous]

As stated above, 2002 was not a great season. We could easily have been an 6-8 win team. We beat Maryland 22-0 and Purdue 24-17 without scoring an offensive touchdown.

 

[Irish2155]

If I remember correctly in 2005 IF we would have won the "Bush Push" game against #1 USC there would have been a good chance playing in the NC game come year end. Even with the OT lost to MSU earlier in the year.

 

[ACamp1900]

Notre Dame football is not as nearly close to winning a title and waking the echoes as the homer base likes to tell itself...

but it is even further from the 'reality' the haters try to paint, Notre Dame is still one of the top 25-30 programs in the country year to year, decade to decade... believe that... listening to the haters you'd think Notre Dame was Louisana Monroe with a TV contract...

 

[charlyp123]

I was looking at this the other day. In Phil Steele's football preview he shows you a program's record over the past ten years. Notre Dame is 72-53. I wondered how that compared to other BCS programs. Just to be clear, I know it is NC or bust with ND, but again this made me curious... The numbers show that ND has averaged a 7-5 season for the past 10 years.

After looking at everyone's records over the last ten years it broke down like this:

Tier 1: Elite programs. There are 13 BCS schools that have had at least 90 wins or up to 100+ wins during the past ten years, meaning they on average win two or three more games a year than ND. Those programs are: Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio State, Virgina Tech, USC, Oregon and West Virigina. To me, these are the football elite and have averaged 9 or 10 wins a year for a decade. (Note I didn't include non-bsc teams like Boise St. and TCU because they get a lot of easy non bcs wins. Also for what it is worth most of these schools play a cupcake or two each year and even 1-AA schools.)

Tier 2: These schools have won 80+ games during the past decade, meaning they on average have won 1 more game a year than ND. You could argue that ND is on par with these programs. They are: Missouri, Texas Tech, Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Boston College and Miami.

Three 3 -- Schools that have averaged 7 wins a year the past decade, like ND. They are: Tennesse, South Carolina, Michigan State, Kansas State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Cal, Oregon State, Pitt.

And then there is everyone else. So has ND been elite the past decade? No, we all knew that. But there are only 13 programs that are clearly head and shoulders above them. And to be honest, I think Kelly is doing a decent job building the program back up. And if they played an easier schedule they could make up the one or two game margin they are behind most programs. So the question is, can Kelly get it back up to that nine-ten wins a year range it was at under Lou.

 

[stlnd01]

Yes, at least "talk". Not saying we have to win it every three years, but we need to be contenders. We need to be right in there Bama, LSU, USC, etc., etc.. I can accept one loss, two losses, but that's about it. With the preferential treatment we receive, no reason why we should not be BCS bound every couple years. We're headed in the right direction. We have started to accumulate size, speed, talent, now it's just development, coaching, and winning. Things are coming together, and IMO, if BK can take care of the development and coaching, winning will come. Then it's just about reloading every year!

Yep. We need to be in the conversation well into the meat of the season, playing meaningful games after Columbus Day. That's "relevance." But meaningful mid/late season games have been all too rare lately. Usually by the time teams the BCS conversation heats up, we've got two losses and the best we can hope for is a miracle backdoor, "because we travel well," slot in a BCS game against a much stronger opponent. Meh.
Yes, that's partly because our schedule is front-loaded while most schools feast on patsies, but such is the price of independence. And just think, if we could just beat both Michigan and MSU in the same season for once, we'd be right in the thick of things.

 

[ulukinatme]

We went to a BCS Bowl in 2005 Fiesta, and 2006 Sugar.. 2002 was a great season also.. Every time i hear it's been 20 yrs i just shake my head.. Tell me how back to back BCS games and going on the road in 2002 beating 2 top 20 teams in 2 weeks for the first time in ND history is bad?

2002 was a fluke that involved some heavy luck. We relied heavily on a decent defense put together by Davies. They produced a lot of turnovers and scores on their own. Special teams was pretty good too if I recall. We were exposed at the end of the year when BC upset us, USC, and eventually the bowl game. I think the team was really deterioriating under Ty by the end of the year, but the lack of offense and our lucky streak just couldn't last all year.

2005 was a decent year. OSU will brag that they put 500+ yards of offense in against us, but the game was never more than 2 scores apart and had the Gonzalez fumble stood I think the game could have gone either way. Regardless of all that, the better team still won.

2006...the team had noticeably taken a step back this season compared to the previous season. The close wins against Michigan State, Geogia Tech, and UCLA should have been and could have been losses. The losses against Michigan, USC, and LSU were humbling. We shouldn't have been in the Sugar Bowl that year.

None of these teams could have handled the '93 Irish squad, which is when most people consider we had a national championship calibur team. That squad would have easily taken the crown had they not overlooked BC in the final week of the regular season. FSU ended up winning easily in the bowl if I recall, and we had taken them down just a few weeks before. Sickening.

 

[charlyp123]

curious to see what the next few years hold. I think they are very important for ND going forward, this year and '13 especially.

 

[Patulski]

I still haven't gotten over the '73 Orange Bowl disaster.

It didn't take Ara long to right that wrong.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/s_j315H7YvM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[irishpat183]

I was looking at this the other day. In Phil Steele's football preview he shows you a program's record over the past ten years. Notre Dame is 72-53. I wondered how that compared to other BCS programs. Just to be clear, I know it is NC or bust with ND, but again this made me curious... The numbers show that ND has averaged a 7-5 season for the past 10 years.

After looking at everyone's records over the last ten years it broke down like this:

Tier 1: Elite programs. There are 13 BCS schools that have had at least 90 wins or up to 100+ wins during the past ten years, meaning they on average win two or three more games a year than ND. Those programs are: Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio State, Virgina Tech, USC, Oregon and West Virigina. To me, these are the football elite and have averaged 9 or 10 wins a year for a decade. (Note I didn't include non-bsc teams like Boise St. and TCU because they get a lot of easy non bcs wins. Also for what it is worth most of these schools play a cupcake or two each year and even 1-AA schools.)

Tier 2: These schools have won 80+ games during the past decade, meaning they on average have won 1 more game a year than ND. You could argue that ND is on par with these programs. They are: Missouri, Texas Tech, Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Boston College and Miami.

Three 3 -- Schools that have averaged 7 wins a year the past decade, like ND. They are: Tennesse, South Carolina, Michigan State, Kansas State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Cal, Oregon State, Pitt.

And then there is everyone else. So has ND been elite the past decade? No, we all knew that. But there are only 13 programs that are clearly head and shoulders above them. And to be honest, I think Kelly is doing a decent job building the program back up. And if they played an easier schedule they could make up the one or two game margin they are behind most programs. So the question is, can Kelly get it back up to that nine-ten wins a year range it was at under Lou.

This is pathetic company. Shameful.

 

[mick2]

I'm with the OP, ND is still very much relevant, the fact that we can have a strictly ND forum as alive and well as this one is proof itself.

We haven't gone away, we've had great seasons, but in the world of espn, if you're not the last team standing you're not ****.

Which is the unfortunate doing of the win at all costs mentality that this nation has adopted.

05, 06 contained some of the best moments in ND history, and some of the best moments for me as a fan. 06 ucla and msu were two of the most entertaining games i have ever witnessed.

I don't give a F___ what pundits say or what other fans expectations are for that matter. I just want to see our boys go out and give all they got. and I support them win or lose.

Sometimes we'll win more than we lose and sometimes it will go the other way, and eventually we'll get back to the title game. So just block out the noise and enjoy a great season of Irish Football.

GO IRISH!!!

 

[Veer option]

BCS games do count because they are a bellwether on how your team competes against other teams on the national stage.

 

[Irishnuke]

If we had won those BCS games then I might agree with you. We didn't. We got stomped. ND hasn't been ND in 20 years. Like it or not, ESPN is right about this.

 

[irishpat183]

If we had won those BCS games then I might agree with you. We didn't. We got stomped. ND hasn't been ND in 20 years. Like it or not, ESPN is right about this.

I agree. That doesn't make me any less of a fan, but it is what it is.


I want to see them compete, win, against other top tier teams in CFB. I'm tired of basing our perception of a "good" season by going 7-5 or 8-4 against a tough schedule, while most the wins coming against crappy teams.

 

[RDU Irish]

Our recent "good" teams were seriously flawed and had the ball bouncing the right way at the right time.

I think the analysis of 9 to 10 wins per season for a decade = dominance is dead on. If we get 11 wins this season we are right on track for the last three and set up well for the next few years to be a consistent top 10 player. THAT is a return to glory, IMO.

So 10-2 regular season with a bowl win makes me estatic even though it does not meet the criteria of the all or nothing crowd here, although it does set us up for NC contention in 2013.

 

[NDhoosier]

Our recent "good" teams were seriously flawed and had the ball bouncing the right way at the right time.

Our most recent "average" team was seriously talented and had the ball bouncing the wrong way at the wrong time.

 

[RDU Irish]

I agree - I think overall last year's team was better than Ty's fluke or Charlie's offense machine, however they ended up with an average record.

 

[Irishnuke]

I agree - I think overall last year's team was better than Ty's fluke or Charlie's offense machine, however they ended up with an average record.

Last season we lost to Stanford, USC, and Notre Dame 3 times.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

If Justin Brown (?) sacked Troy Smith instead of letting him scramble for a first down, Quinn would have gotten the ball back down 7 with over 2:00 to play. The LSU game was a farce, but the Irish could have easily sent that Ohio State game to OT.