ND Oversold on Kelly?

[Bluto]

Stanford also lost to Utah.

Yeah but they also beat the crap out of Oregon and ASU and it would appear that Utah might be better than some people give them credit for ie they beat BYU and played USC as close as ND. Pitt on the other hand is just flat out bad.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I guess it's that simple...

I hope you mods didn't ban him for saying "ignorant ****." Because that's on me. I originally said that but immediately edited it out when I ...came to senses haha He and gkIrish saw it though.

 

[tussin]

There aren't many consistent NCAA teams.

Sure, so what you are saying is that ND is a fairly average, inconsistent program that doesn't appear to be trending up.

 

[Buster Bluth]

A teams success against the spread is a general indicator of how good that team actually is. Again, it just proves that this team plays to its inferior opponents on a weekly basis.

There's a reason why the best teams in the country are typically great against the spread.

Yeah I guess I just don't look at football this way.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Yeah but they also beat the crap out of Oregon and ASU and it would appear that Utah might be better than some people give them credit for ie they beat BYU and played USC as close as ND. Pitt on the other hand is just flat out bad.

And we beat very good Michigan State and Arizona State teams.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Sure, so what you are saying is that ND is a fairly average, inconsistent program that doesn't appear to be trending up.

Nope.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Sure, so what you are saying is that ND is a fairly average, inconsistent program that doesn't appear to be trending up.

That's not remotely what I just said.

 

[tussin]

Nope.

I mean this program isn't trending up. Almost every unit on the field is worse than last year (excluding maybe receivers and oline?) and we have a horrible inability to hang on to the top of our classes. I'm gonna be honest, I really don't see a playoff birth ANYTIME soon. Hopefully Golson brings some magic back to South Bend.

 

[ACamp1900]

And we beat very good Michigan State and Arizona State teams.

And lost to a flat horrible Pitt team...

 

[dmort]

The defense was simply horrid.Hate to think what next year will bring.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I mean this program isn't trending up. Almost every unit on the field is worse than last year (excluding maybe receivers and oline?) and we have a horrible inability to hang on to the top of our classes. I'm gonna be honest, I really don't see a playoff birth ANYTIME soon. Hopefully Golson brings some magic back to South Bend.

I mean they're not as good as the 12-1 team. Hard to "trend up" from there.

It's also pretty silly to judge a team on their trough or crest.

 

[Buster Bluth]

And lost to a flat horrible Pitt team...

= inconsistent.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

And lost to a flat horrible Pitt team...

Yep. But that was already said. I was pointing out the contrast.

 

[ulukinatme]

Kelly's the best coach we're gonna get I think. Show me a better coach that's going to come to ND.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

The reality is Notre Dame will never be a consistent national title contender. Kelly, no Kelly, Lou Holtz reincarnated, Mike Ditka, Jim Harbaugh, Big Fat Charlie Weis, Nick Satan, doesn't matter. College football has run past the Irish and the deck is stacked against them.

What's interesting is our top 10 recruiting classes turn into triple OT wins and 7-point losses to Pitt, whereas Bama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida, Florida St, and others turn into consistent BCS caliber teams. Is it a flaw in the recruiting ranking system? Or a development problem? I think its the type of 4 star guys we recruit. They're close to maximizing their potential when the come to campus. They aren't raw, freaky athletic talents. They're polished, skilled high school football players. The room for growth for the latter is much smaller than the former. As a result, we're stuck in cycle of over promising and under delivering.

Last year was cute. We got lucky. Now we will all point to 2012 as 'what could be' for the next decade.

 

[gkIrish]

The reality is Notre Dame will never be a consistent national title contender. Kelly, no Kelly, Lou Holtz reincarnated, Mike Ditka, Jim Harbaugh, Big Fat Charlie Weis, Nick Satan, doesn't matter. College football has run past the Irish and the deck is stacked against them.

What's interesting is our top 10 recruiting classes turn into triple OT wins and 7-point losses to Pitt, whereas Bama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida, Florida St, and others turn into consistent BCS caliber teams. Is it a flaw in the recruiting ranking system? Or a development problem? I think its the type of 4 star guys we recruit. They're close to maximizing their potential when the come to campus. They aren't raw, freaky athletic talents. They're polished, skilled high school football players. The room for growth for the latter is much smaller than the former. As a result, we're stuck in cycle of over promising and under delivering.

Last year was cute. We got lucky. Now we will all point to 2012 as 'what could be' for the next decade.

Alabama is really the only team that is a consistent national title contender

 

[dmort]

ND might be able to get Les Miles.He might be looking for a new job.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Alabama is really the only team that is a consistent national title contender

Contender means 11-1, 10-2 type teams. Plenty of teams fall into that mix. A couple of plays from being in the NC game instead of a BCS game.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The reality is Notre Dame will never be a consistent national title contender. Kelly, no Kelly, Lou Holtz reincarnated, Mike Ditka, Jim Harbaugh, Big Fat Charlie Weis, Nick Satan, doesn't matter. College football has run past the Irish and the deck is stacked against them.

What's interesting is our top 10 recruiting classes turn into triple OT wins and 7-point losses to Pitt, whereas Bama, LSU, Ohio St, Florida, Florida St, and others turn into consistent BCS caliber teams. Is it a flaw in the recruiting ranking system? Or a development problem? I think its the type of 4 star guys we recruit. They're close to maximizing their potential when the come to campus. They aren't raw, freaky athletic talents. They're polished, skilled high school football players. The room for growth for the latter is much smaller than the former. As a result, we're stuck in cycle of over promising and under delivering.

Last year was cute. We got lucky. Now we will all point to 2012 as 'what could be' for the next decade.

I think it's a depth issue. Due to transfers, academic issues, and the like, we're essentially 10 scholarships down. We don't over-recruit, we don't grayshirt...it's just reality. That means that injuries kill us and kids who don't develop really hurt us.

 

[ulukinatme]

ND might be able to get Les Miles.He might be looking for a new job.

No thanks. Les isn't going anywhere, for one, and Les isn't that great of a coach tbh.

 

[ACamp1900]

= inconsistent.

Alabama is really the only team that is a consistent national title contender

Just about every single 'name' program in the country has been such at some point in the past twenty years except for ND... Am I forgetting anyone? Penn State is getting close I suppose

 

[ulukinatme]

Contender means 11-1, 10-2 type teams. Plenty of teams fall into that mix. A couple of plays from being in the NC game instead of a BCS game.

It's easier for some teams to be consistent contenders. Look at OSU. Even when Tressel was just locking down Ohio and occasionally pulling in some good talent from outside the state, they dominated the conference basically with occasional good years out of Michigan or Wisconsin. The ACC is getting better, but it was fairly easy for a team like FSU to be a contender when the competition wasn't that great. Even for the PAC-12 it wasn't that hard for a team like USC or Oregon to knock out 10-2 records each year. The rise of Stanford has made that a bit more difficult, and UCLA is making their way back up there too, but this has all happened as USC steadily declined under Kiffin.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

It's easier for some teams to be consistent contenders. Look at OSU. Even when Tressel was just locking down Ohio and occasionally pulling in some good talent from outside the state, they dominated the conference basically with occasional good years out of Michigan or Wisconsin. The ACC is getting better, but it was fairly easy for a team like FSU to be a contender when the competition wasn't that great. Even for the PAC-12 it wasn't that hard for a team like USC or Oregon to knock out 10-2 records each year. The rise of Stanford has made that a bit more difficult, and UCLA is making their way back up there too, but this has all happened as USC steadily declined under Kiffin.

So what has made it difficult on ND? Our schedule routinely features Michigan, who has had their share of down years in recent history; Michigan St, never really a football power; USC, definitely the major hiccup for ND under Carroll; Stanford, pretty damn good recently but average before; Purdue, terrible; Pitt, generally mediocre; BC, borderline top-25 at best, terrible at worst; Navy and some other academy, should never lose those games. Sprinkle in a few randoms and that's the schedule. I don't really see anything there that should routinely inhibit 10-2 seasons.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

We are barely an above average team right now. And how is our dline going to be any better against the run next year??

WE lose 2 all americans. We lose Shembo. We lose Shembo. and our 2nd teammer in Kona.

We lose 1 starting backer and 2 subs. And two coming back off super bad leg/knee injuries. Yes, that is a recipe of getting to be good dline.

And no true NT. NONE Springman-nope, Jones--Nope not at his height, Hayes has to gain weight if he truly signs next year, Day--you have to be kidding.

We may have to switch to a 4-3 . And who is our MLB? Deeb?

 

[ulukinatme]

So what has made it difficult on ND? Our schedule routinely features Michigan, who has had their share of down years in recent history; Michigan St, never really a football power; USC, definitely the major hiccup for ND under Carroll; Stanford, pretty damn good recently but average before; Purdue, terrible; Pitt, generally mediocre; BC, borderline top-25 at best, terrible at worst; Navy and some other academy, should never lose those games. Sprinkle in a few randoms and that's the schedule. I don't really see anything there that should routinely inhibit 10-2 seasons.

What has made it difficult on us? Probably a number of things. Admissions doesn't do us any favors. Injuries hasn't helped. The schedule is tougher than it appears, and part of that is the fact that teams play us tougher each week. The Pitt game has now been decided by 1 score or less in the last 10 contests aside from that 2005 game I think. Yeah, Pitt hasn't been a good team each year in that time frame, but they come to play. Navy isn't a great team, but they're a tough team that plays disciplined and they chop us to bits. Sound like a cop out? Navy went toe to toe with OSU in 2009 and nearly knocked them off, that same season OSU played and beat Oregon in the Rose Bowl. Purdue is no different, they typically play one of their best games of the season against us or OSU. The list goes on.

People regularly talk about how some teams get an opponent's best shot week in and week out, and we're certainly one of those teams. It's not a bunch of BS, these teams come in thinking they can win, and they're playing to win. We're not blowing anybody out, but when we do it's usually because it's one of these teams like Navy or Miami last year where we end up getting an early lead and take the fight out of the other team.

 

[anarin]

We are barely an above average team right now. And how is our dline going to be any better against the run next year??

WE lose 2 all americans. We lose Shembo. We lose Shembo. and our 2nd teammer in Kona.

We lose 1 starting backer and 2 subs. And two coming back off super bad leg/knee injuries. Yes, that is a recipe of getting to be good dline.

And no true NT. NONE Springman-nope, Jones--Nope not at his height, Hayes has to gain weight if he truly signs next year, Day--you have to be kidding.

We may have to switch to a 4-3 . And who is our MLB? Deeb?

Maybe you should sit next season out champ.

And I never understood the 4-3 switch talk. They're already down on DLinemen. So lets switch to a base that needs more DLineman?? And if you haven't figured it out by now, I'll clue you in (they run alot of 4-3 looks out of the 3-4)

 

[ickythump1225]

So what has made it difficult on ND? Our schedule routinely features Michigan, who has had their share of down years in recent history; Michigan St, never really a football power; USC, definitely the major hiccup for ND under Carroll; Stanford, pretty damn good recently but average before; Purdue, terrible; Pitt, generally mediocre; BC, borderline top-25 at best, terrible at worst; Navy and some other academy, should never lose those games. Sprinkle in a few randoms and that's the schedule. I don't really see anything there that should routinely inhibit 10-2 seasons.

Because we don't get a healthy sprinkling of Savannah State, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Portland State, etc. to inflate our record. It's much harder to play our schedule than a team like Alabama with two hard games all year, even those hard games are harder than our hardest games. It's just easier to only have to get up mentally once or twice a year and have a few "safety net" games out there in case of a mental letdown. If you have a mental letdown against Navy or Pitt you can lose. You have a mental letdown against Georgia State and you only win by 4 touchdowns instead of 5.

Also we don't greyshirt, we don't overrecruit, we don't pay kids, we don't have a bunch of football slacker classes for kids to not attend and still get good grades in, etc.

 

[Rudy89]

Because we don't get a healthy sprinkling of Savannah State, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Portland State, etc. to inflate our record. It's much harder to play our schedule than a team like Alabama with two hard games all year, even those hard games are harder than our hardest games. It's just easier to only have to get up mentally once or twice a year and have a few "safety net" games out there in case of a mental letdown. If you have a mental letdown against Navy or Pitt you can lose. You have a mental letdown against Georgia State and you only win by 4 touchdowns instead of 5.

Also we don't greyshirt, we don't overrecruit, we don't pay kids, we don't have a bunch of football slacker classes for kids to not attend and still get good grades in, etc.

Sadly that will never be brought up outside of Irish fans but until we change that we will never make It tothe next level we are a mid level team like Arizona, Iowa State, Kentucky, Illinois, etc have a few fun seasons win some small bowls one year capture lighting in a bottle get go to the BCS where we will promptly be beaten down by an SEC team or a team that missed the title game by a game. The future is mediocre at least for this season and the next few.

 

[Grahambo]

Might as well rename this thread 'The Doomsday' thread. Rebuilding is much like investing, takes patience.

 

[CarrollVermin]

I hope you mods didn't ban him for saying "ignorant ****." Because that's on me. I originally said that but immediately edited it out when I ...came to senses haha He and gkIrish saw it though.

They sent me to time out. It was no biggie. I enjoy my banter with you and wrote it in jest back to you. The break got me some rest last night at least...ha.