NBA Thread

[Irishnuke]

The Mavs' GM has fully accepted the heel role. He's gotta know the backlash is astronomical.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I heard that next year's salary number was going to be a killer if he stayed in Dallas.

The "bet" was for Dallas to try to win now with a really BIG line-up (though there is a LOT of clogging problem there), and preserve enough cash to meet the future WHEN that comes. The Lakers are more opaque as to total motives, but it really seems that the admin decided to finally show Lebron that this was not his team to influence anymore. Because of the latter, I DO believe that he was not consulted; only told that this was the future and it was his situation now to decide how to deal with it.

.... I also wonder if that fiasco with ramming his son down their throats didn't finally tip them over the edge.

 

[Irishdawg]

This is a great listen on the insane Luka to the Lakers trade…

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I'm still trying to figure this out on paper in the present. I guess we'll see what the next couple of years bring.

 

[NDRock]

I'm still trying to figure this out on paper in the present. I guess we'll see what the next couple of years bring.

The tough part for Dallas is, it is possible that Luka never figures it out regarding his fitness. If he stays in Dallas, and they pay him the big contract, he may have gone down the path of injuries and never fulfilling his promise.

So they trade him to Los Angeles and probably give him the motivation as well as teaming him up with the greatest player in NBA history with regards to staying healthy and taking care of himself. They might be creating a monster they never would have gotten themselves. We will see next year if he comes to camp in shape.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The tough part for Dallas is, it is possible that Luka never figures it out regarding his fitness. If he stays in Dallas, and they pay him the big contract, he may have gone down the path of injuries and never fulfilling his promise.

So they trade him to Los Angeles and probably give him the motivation as well as teaming him up with the greatest player in NBA history with regards to staying healthy and taking care of himself. They might be creating a monster they never would have gotten themselves. We will see next year if he comes to camp in shape.

Patrick Mahomes and the secrets of the Dad Bod: What we get wrong about athleticism

Patrick Mahomes and Nikola Jokić aren't just superstars. They challenge us to better understand the hidden secrets of athleticism.

www.nytimes.com

This was just up this past Thursday. LOL. Made me rethink a few things with regards to said subject.

 

[Irish#1]

The tough part for Dallas is, it is possible that Luka never figures it out regarding his fitness. If he stays in Dallas, and they pay him the big contract, he may have gone down the path of injuries and never fulfilling his promise.

So they trade him to Los Angeles and probably give him the motivation as well as teaming him up with the greatest player in NBA history with regards to staying healthy and taking care of himself. They might be creating a monster they never would have gotten themselves. We will see next year if he comes to camp in shape.

Jordan come out of retirement?

 

[NDRock]

Jordan come out of retirement?

Conveniently forgot to bold the rest of the sentence. I’m Gen X, Jordan is the GOAT.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'm Gen-Prehistoric, Bill Russell is the GOAT.

I have several other very unpopular pro-BBall opinions as well (which I will spare you.)

 

[SeekNDestroy]

I'm Gen-Prehistoric, Bill Russell is the GOAT.

I have several other very unpopular pro-BBall opinions as well (which I will spare you.)

Better than Wilt? I don’t think so. He was unstoppable. Period.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Nope. If you can (probably not any longer) watch their games.

Wilt was the superior athlete --- in fact the superior athlete ever to play in the NBA.

But Russ was the team man, the GOAT defender, the winner vs the GIANT Ogre.

..... AND Russ was just a better person and deeper than almost any of these guys.

Wilt got excited playing against Russ, but in a way this shows that Russ was the greater player --- he didn't need special reasons to play at top-level. He was there all the time. Wilt had big stats even against the Celtics, but Philadelphia knew that if they were to have a chance against the Celtics they had to ram it into him all the time. ... and usually lost anyway.

Wilt won 4 MVPs; Russ won 5. Wilt won 2 NBA championships; Russ won eleven. Being "unstoppable" includes more than dunking.

Wilt was asked about that much later in life. He said (raising many eyebrows): The Celtics would not have won as many titles with me as their center instead of Bill Russell.

....... if someone wants to argue that Wilt was the GOAT, I'll shrug and not scream about it. But for me, it was Russ.

 

[NDRock]

Seems those that just look at stats think Wilt was better. Those that were there and played in the league gave the edge to Russ.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Every present discussion in this thread ultimately leads to this GOAT nonsense.

I'm still trying to make sense of this trade, even if Kareem is the greatest player of all time.

 

[NDRock]

Every present discussion in this thread ultimately leads to this GOAT nonsense.

I'm still trying to make sense of this trade, even if Kareem is the greatest player of all time.

I can get to where Luka could be so bad off the court (attitude, conditioning, injuries, big contract extension) that you want to shop him. Still can't believe they didn't get more for him and the centerpiece they got back is always hurt.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I can get to where Luka could be so bad off the court (attitude, conditioning, injuries, big contract extension) that you want to shop him. Still can't believe they didn't get more for him and the centerpiece they got back is always hurt.

This is the part that I'm stuck on. So you nailed it.

 

[jprue24]

The Lakers are more opaque as to total motives, but it really seems that the admin decided to finally show Lebron that this was not his team to influence anymore. Because of the latter, I DO believe that he was not consulted; only told that this was the future and it was his situation now to decide how to deal with it.

.... I also wonder if that fiasco with ramming his son down their throats didn't finally tip them over the edge.

My understanding is it was the Westbrook trade. Lakers backed away from Clutch after that.

I think his son is the Lakers taking care of their stars. It's what they do.

 

[Irish#1]

My understanding is it was the Westbrook trade. Lakers backed away from Clutch after that.

I think his son is the Lakers taking care of their stars. It's what they do.

What OMM makes sense. James is nearing the end of the trail and his wants haven't provided very good results.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I'll give the Lakers credit. They're trying to cash in the LeBron era the best they can.

Should've been how that dumb ass reinsdorf handled the Jordan era

 

[jprue24]

What OMM makes sense. James is nearing the end of the trail and his wants haven't provided very good results.

You don't need to translate his words. I can read them.

I'm speaking to the specific transaction that soured the relationship. I have heard from multiple people, at different times, who said the Westbrook trade is when the Lakers stopped listening to him, not drafting bronny and giving him a 4 year contract.

LeBron's "wants" have had mixed results. AD was one of his wants and that won a title in 2020

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'll buy what jprue is saying. ... and maybe what I said can be concurrently true --- i.e. Lebron's era was obviously closing, the Westbrook thing created a further chasm, and insistent nepotism pushed everyone too far.

I used to watch those Laker time-out huddles very closely. Lebron made it almost impossible for whoever it was that was the coach to do any coaching. He was so great and so important to the team's success, that the coach would just swallow it. But Lord Almighty, I couldn't work under those conditions (I know all the stars [well, almost all] are very interruptive of their coaches, and run their own offense anyway, but Lebron's interference with the time-out huddles is/was mind-boggling. ... another player out-of-line continuously on this {and not having earned the status to do it} is Caitlin Clark --- terrific talent and out-of-control immaturity mouthy about everything. As a person with a coaching attitude towards sports, I am perhaps too sensitive about rogue star behavior and consider it rarely "team helpful." Jordan famously said: There is no "I" in team, but there is in "Win." I absolutely hated everything about that.

 

[jprue24]

When I was a young teen I would jokingly say, "there's no I in team, but there is a me." Mostly because every damn coach would say it to everyone in practice, all the time.

You have a good point that both could be true. I would be surprised if the entire organization soured on him after the same event. I want to be clear that I'm only parroting what I've heard from NBA guys I trust about the impact of the Westbrook trade. I am of the opinion that the Lakers make it a point to treat their stars very well. Drafting Bronny feels like the Lakers taking care of their star. I don't think LeBron needed to ask, let alone force. The team was pretty definative that they had their own reasons for drafting Bronny. It makes zero sense to draft him for roster construction and/or on-court reasons. He's not a good enough shooter (horrendous since starting college) to be 3 and D at his height. Even with his length and athleticism he is going to be hunted. Yes, it's a bit crazy to me that 6'2" players are being hunted for isos, but the league is that good. LeBron had already made it clear that his desire is to play with his son (I think he tries to play with Bryce, as well) so I think the Lakers have known for a while that they were going to get Bronny.

I haven't seen the Lakers in a while, though I am going to see them play Utah on Monday Wednesday. Hoping Luka is playing by then, I want to get a good look at what gets run for him and seeing Lebron play basketball in person (if he plays) is always a treat to me. I also want to watch Luka cry about literally everything.

I don't care if both sit out, though. I go to watch the basketball. Everybody is an incredible player at this level and I like to catch the glimpses of it from non-stars.

I have zero doubt that it takes a specific type of coach to handle him, but he also is an extremely intelligent basketball player with more experience than any other player, ever (right now). His opinion on the floor and in the film room should always carry a lot of weight. I don't think there are too many people that know more about basketball than him, so I get why he sucks to coach. Especially if you aren't the right guy, like Blatt

 

[greyhammer90]

I don't think the Lakers are organizationally upset about using a late draft pick (which are basically always G League guys) on a kid who is making them a ton of money on merch. It's true that he's not a good basketball player, but his jersey sales alone are paying for his dad's salary.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/los-angeles-lakers/bronny-james-jersey-sales-reportedly-cross-500k-units-generate-over-50-million-revenue-lakers

 

[Bane]

I'll buy what jprue is saying. ... and maybe what I said can be concurrently true --- i.e. Lebron's era was obviously closing, the Westbrook thing created a further chasm, and insistent nepotism pushed everyone too far.

I used to watch those Laker time-out huddles very closely. Lebron made it almost impossible for whoever it was that was the coach to do any coaching. He was so great and so important to the team's success, that the coach would just swallow it. But Lord Almighty, I couldn't work under those conditions (I know all the stars [well, almost all] are very interruptive of their coaches, and run their own offense anyway, but Lebron's interference with the time-out huddles is/was mind-boggling. ... another player out-of-line continuously on this {and not having earned the status to do it} is Caitlin Clark --- terrific talent and out-of-control immaturity mouthy about everything. As a person with a coaching attitude towards sports, I am perhaps too sensitive about rogue star behavior and consider it rarely "team helpful." Jordan famously said: There is no "I" in team, but there is in "Win." I absolutely hated everything about that.

Basketball is 100% star player driven and the coaches seem to have the least control in it of any of the 4 major American sports. 1 Lebron is worth more to an organization, and the league in general, than dozens and dozens of coaches.

Caitlin Clark is worth more the WNBA than maybe any one athlete ever for any league. She's single handedly making it relevant (the other players haven't gotten the memo and many seemed hellbent on injuring their meal ticket, they'll be back in coach in no time if she's out).

 

[Old Man Mike]

Yep. All that's obvious to me.

Still don't like players (especially rookies) yapping about every small thing which they disagree with. She was setting records for technicals already until the organization has tried to point out that the league has a games-ineligible-to-play policy about T's.

There should be enough maturity and social awareness in people to realize when it's time to shut up and let the coach do the job. I watched a 3-on-3 women's team coach the other day. His team came over on a time-out and he looked at them as they sat down and said: I don't have anything for you (as to a specific play drawn up), because we both know you won't run it anyway.

Great.

 

[Bane]

Yep. All that's obvious to me.

Still don't like players (especially rookies) yapping about every small thing which they disagree with. She was setting records for technicals already until the organization has tried to point out that the league has a games-ineligible-to-play policy about T's.

There should be enough maturity and social awareness in people to realize when it's time to shut up and let the coach do the job. I watched a 3-on-3 women's team coach the other day. His team came over on a time-out and he looked at them as they sat down and said: I don't have anything for you (as to a specific play drawn up), because we both know you won't run it anyway.

Great.

I don't disagree, but that's been basketball for a long time, since Kobe became the premier player in the NBA at least, if not further back. It's part of why I don't really watch basketball, it has a shit culture and weird soap opera tier interpersonal dynamics among the players.

 

[irishnd31]

IMO, the NBA is less about the product on the court present day and more about "Mount Rushmores" and GOAT debates. These debates revolve around the same 3 players (more times than not 2 players) who played in different times in the league's history. Turn on ESPN and take a drink for every time this occurs on the talk shows. Your stomach will need pumped at the ER.

 

[Bane]

IMO, the NBA is less about the product on the court present day and more about "Mount Rushmores" and GOAT debates. These debates revolve around the same 3 players (more times than not 2 players) who played in different times in the league's history. Turn on ESPN and take a drink for every time this occurs on the talk shows. Your stomach will need pumped at the ER.

The NBA is also in an era where it doesn't have many superstars who transcend their sport and break into the general public. Lebron and Steph Curry are getting long in the tooth, and there doesn't appear to be anyone waiting in the wings to take over. That's a problem for a superstar driven league.

 

[Old Man Mike]

.... no real team vs team rivalries with any punch.

 

[NDRock]

.... no real team vs team rivalries with any punch.

Maybe Cooper Flagg will get people to tune in. Nothing like a white, American superstar to get people excited. Those dirty Eastern Europeans don't do it for me, though I do like Joker.

 

[Irish du Nord]

.... no real team vs team rivalries with any punch.

The NBA is the worst sport for this at any level. People talk about the death of baseball but at least there are still bad feelings between fanbases. There are greater rivalries in HS Track and Field than in the NBA.