Navy Post Game

kmoose

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We've had a few players that suck in practice but just seem to turn it up during a real game. Let's see what Morgan does in a game. He hasn't even been given the chance. It's mind-boggling.

But that's just it........ other backups have gotten PT. Coney has been in there quite a bit, and Martini has played a fair amount, as well. So don't you think that there has to be something about Morgan that is keeping him off of the field? I mean, I am just spitballing here, but maybe he's got academic issues that are keeping him from practicing enough to get onto the field on Saturdays? It would make sense, in that Kelly probably would not want to embarrass the kid, if he is eligible but just barely, so he probably would not announce why he hasn't seen more PT.
 
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Cackalacky

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But that's just it........ other backups have gotten PT. Coney has been in there quite a bit, and Martini has played a fair amount, as well. So don't you think that there has to be something about Morgan that is keeping him off of the field? I mean, I am just spitballing here, but maybe he's got academic issues that are keeping him from practicing enough to get onto the field on Saturdays? It would make sense, in that Kelly probably would not want to embarrass the kid, if he is eligible but just barely, so he probably would not announce why he hasn't seen more PT.

Kelly has said that Schmidt is too important to take off the field and that he just better than Morgan. TIFWIW.
 

GoIrish41

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But that's just it........ other backups have gotten PT. Coney has been in there quite a bit, and Martini has played a fair amount, as well. So don't you think that there has to be something about Morgan that is keeping him off of the field? I mean, I am just spitballing here, but maybe he's got academic issues that are keeping him from practicing enough to get onto the field on Saturdays? It would make sense, in that Kelly probably would not want to embarrass the kid, if he is eligible but just barely, so he probably would not announce why he hasn't seen more PT.

Morgan's problem with playing time appears to be that BK inexplicably seems to be under the impression that the whole defense will collapse if Schmidt leaves the field. The few opportunities that Morgan got last year and even fewer this year have resulted in play that is noticeably superior to Schmidt's. If he has academic issues Morgan would not have played against UMASS. This appears to be Kelly refusing to see the obvious because of his affinity for Schmidt.
 
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koonja

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Nyles Morgan blitzing up the middle and Jaylon on the edge....



With Day dropping in coverage.
 

Irish Insanity

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For those that didn't believe west coast teams coming cross country to play games matter. The Arizona Cardinals will stay in WV following todays game at Detroit to keep itself on the east coast for it's game next week against the Steelers.
 

TheTurningPoint

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Morgan's problem with playing time appears to be that BK inexplicably seems to be under the impression that the whole defense will collapse if Schmidt leaves the field. The few opportunities that Morgan got last year and even fewer this year have resulted in play that is noticeably superior to Schmidt's. If he has academic issues Morgan would not have played against UMASS. This appears to be Kelly refusing to see the obvious because of his affinity for Schmidt.


I don't feel that at all. Last year, yes and it did.

Morgan is only a sophomore. He is on special teams and finding his role on the team.
 

phgreek

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You mean, he has to act on 1 of 2 total possibilities, like I already pointed out? You don't need a coach behind you to do that. And if you did, Morgan and Grace both have eye balls and can see a player go in motion and say 'hey, other side guys'.

it is that simple if you are 11.

Defensive calls are the implementation of responses to scouting reports...You need to be a damned smart person to see the formation, know the situation, and the correct option(s) out of the set that came in from the sideline. Schmidt is doing more than tapping Tillery on the ass to get his splits right. As well there is far more precision and complexity to Dline play at that level...Seriously. The combination of Alignment, Assignment, and Technique have got to be dead nuts on, and assignment is more than one of two gaps...nough said there.

I don't care that folks think the performance isn't good enough...at times I agree, but don't kid yourself...it is hard to go away from a smart guy to a better athlete ... who introduces more chaos. These coaches made a decision in the Fall to deal with chaos next year...and I don't think you'll see them change unless they can see a way to simplify things and gain an advantage.
 

Old Man Mike

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What a crappy atmosphere to what should be a polite and significant discussion. Joe is a good player but Joe is not a great player. Joe is a great leader-organizer, but Joe can get road-graded occasionally by an OLineman. So... everyone can have a "point" here.

None of us knows why Joe seems fixed at MIKE. These are my opinions, though they have nothing but "feelings" behind them:

1). Linebacking, maybe more than any defensive thing, has a huge "instincts" component. Athleticism is great, but it must be combined with instincts or it's just wild random flailing.

2). In a highly designed modern defense, micro-management of exact techniques and "fits" are vital. If one doesn't do the correct eleven man fit, the defense opens up like waters parting in the RedSea.

3). Joe gets people in correct fits. People might want to doubt this, but I see it all the time pre-snap --- often the guy is Jaylon by the way, but most often a DLineman, even someone like Rochell. Kelly has said somewhere that only Schmitt and Grace do this task like BVG-on-the-field.

4). What about getting bulldozed though? Yes, that happens. It does not happen every play though like some would like to think. Joe is in the correct position a lot, and when so he often plugs a gap and the runner must slide to another slot. Against Navy in the first half, the defense at that point fell to James, who wasn't big enough to effectively fill --- Kelly said this, so we had to go with Martini "who trusted that his teammates would all do their parts of the fits" --- for those who have ears hear --- and the Navy dive essentially was stopped thereafter.

5). Nyles Morgan could slobber knock his gap if he found himself in the true correct one. Often his instincts betray him and he's elsewhere, battling like a wild man in the wrong place. This is no one's "fault". Nyles doesn't have the [unteachable] instincts like, say, Manti did. Few do. Nyles MIGHT get there, but he is not there. He also doesn't get the entire picture as fast as does Joe, and so is probably more confused about pre-snap shifts than the guys he's supposed to be re-positioning. Athleticism is important and studliness, but being in the correct fit is more so. BVG is apparently seeing that we are in the correct fits and stopping plays at a higher percentage with Joe in there than Nyles.

6). Neither Coney nor Martini are thought of as MIKEs by the staff, apparently, and do not seem to have trained [at all] there. My only question, watching Joe get his occasional truckings and seemingly too slow across the field dives, is why haven't the staff tried Grace --- the other acknowledged game manager and good instincts guy --- there? That's the only question I'd ask Kelly/BVG about this.
 

IrishinSyria

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I don't feel that at all. Last year, yes and it did.

Morgan is only a sophomore. He is on special teams and finding his role on the team.

What happened to the defense last year after Schmidt went down was frustrating. But there's no excuse for that to happen again this year. It's BVG's 2nd year, Jaylon and not Joe is the unquestioned leader of the D, Morgan (and Martini) went through his trial by fire last year, and Schmidt is obviously not physically in the same place he was last year. There's some serious problems if our team-wide understanding of the D isn't miles ahead of where it was last year.
 
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koonja

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Didn't Day and Jarron Jones go down around that time too? I do not remember. If they did, Joe's getting too much credit for the defensive collapse because those were our only two good DL. Rochelle was decent too but he alone wasn't going to stop the run.
 

phgreek

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What happened to the defense last year after Schmidt went down was frustrating. But there's no excuse for that to happen again this year. It's BVG's 2nd year, Jaylon and not Joe is the unquestioned leader of the D, Morgan (and Martini) went through his trial by fire last year, and Schmidt is obviously not physically in the same place he was last year. There's some serious problems if our team-wide understanding of the D isn't miles ahead of where it was last year.

I guess there might be be some understanding issues in the front outside Schmidt...I have no doubt in my mind there are understanding issues on the back end. ND has better athletes back there than we've seen in a long time...yet they play slow. When I see that...it makes me think people are hesitant/unsure.
 

gkIrish

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I could live with Joe being on the field if our defense as a whole was dominating. But they aren't. They haven't really even played one game well for two halves minus Texas.

So what kind of value is he adding that's making our defense that good? And if he is the reason we aren't giving up 30+ points per game then we have serious serious problems.
 
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koonja

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As baffling as the insistence to play Schmidt is, playing Romeo over Trumbetti is just as bad IMO.
 
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bkess8

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I could live with Joe being on the field if our defense as a whole was dominating. But they aren't. They haven't really even played one game well for two halves minus Texas.

So what kind of value is he adding that's making our defense that good? And if he is the reason we aren't giving up 30+ points per game then we have serious serious problems.

Well said.

I think we would get the same results and be better off next season with someone else getting his snaps.
 

Irish#1

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We won. Time to move on to the USC thread. :eek:grin:
 

GoldenDomer

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Sorry if it's been discussed, but I just saw that BK called them the best defense he's seen at ND...
 

philipm31

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For those that didn't believe west coast teams coming cross country to play games matter. The Arizona Cardinals will stay in WV following todays game at Detroit to keep itself on the east coast for it's game next week against the Steelers.

No it does not matter and that is not unusual for teams that have back to back road games on the other coast to do, based entirely on practicality, not because of some mythical reasoning.

So I am guessing that the SNF was close simply because it was a night game? No.

Was the Seahawks loss in Cincinnati because of a time zone difference? No.

Was the Lions loss in Seattle due to time zone? No.

It is flat ridiculous to use that as an EXCUSE--not a reason--for a team that starts out flat, in any game whatsoever.
 

philipm31

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Oh okay. Just the way he said "best defense I've seen since I've been here", sounded like he meant overall.

He said it was the best team that Navy had had in his years as HC at ND. Which is to say, that Navy's D was not that great and that we should have pulverized them into the ground 1989-style....but we did not, which is just ridiculous. Not like we should have been looking forward a game ahead, when we already knew that USC sucked.
 

theclassickiller

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No it does not matter and that is not unusual for teams that have back to back road games on the other coast to do, based entirely on practicality, not because of some mythical reasoning.

So I am guessing that the SNF was close simply because it was a night game? No.

Was the Seahawks loss in Cincinnati because of a time zone difference? No.

Was the Lions loss in Seattle due to time zone? No.


It is flat ridiculous to use that as an EXCUSE--not a reason--for a team that starts out flat, in any game whatsoever.

So you have proof of these things, right? Because you sound AWFULLY sure of yourself!
 

Irish Insanity

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No it does not matter and that is not unusual for teams that have back to back road games on the other coast to do, based entirely on practicality, not because of some mythical reasoning.

So I am guessing that the SNF was close simply because it was a night game? No.

Was the Seahawks loss in Cincinnati because of a time zone difference? No.

Was the Lions loss in Seattle due to time zone? No.

It is flat ridiculous to use that as an EXCUSE--not a reason--for a team that starts out flat, in any game whatsoever.
Hey smart ass, the Cardinals coach actually stated that as the reason they were doing it. But I guess he could be wrong.......
The SNF games are set up as prime viewing games. It has nothing to do with time zones.
I didn't blame any loss on the time zone change. I said it affected the west coast team traveling east. And for the 3 that played UofM, it was essentially them playing a 9 am game for them. An east coast team playing on the west coast has nothing to do with it. They aren't playing an earlier game when their bodies are typically not awake yet. I'm to lazy to Google and link on my phone. If you feel the need to do so, I encourage it. Vegas takes it in to consideration when setting lines. Coaches take it in to consideration when planning weekly schedules. But then aain, they're probably all wrong.....
 

philipm31

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Hey smart ass, the Cardinals coach actually stated that as the reason they were doing it. But I guess he could be wrong.......
The SNF games are set up as prime viewing games. It has nothing to do with time zones.
I didn't blame any loss on the time zone change. I said it affected the west coast team traveling east. And for the 3 that played UofM, it was essentially them playing a 9 am game for them. An east coast team playing on the west coast has nothing to do with it. They aren't playing an earlier game when their bodies are typically not awake yet. I'm to lazy to Google and link on my phone. If you feel the need to do so, I encourage it. Vegas takes it in to consideration when setting lines. Coaches take it in to consideration when planning weekly schedules. But then aain, they're probably all wrong.....

Um, they have a full week to get ready, so no it does NOT make a massive difference, ever. These are PRO athletes, and the ONLY time it makes a difference is for teams that play multiple games in a week. NOT for teams that play ONCE a week.

It literally is just an excuse. Coaches are just superstitious AF, and it is just practical for them to do this. Not unlike the Niners a coupe years ago. Did not make a difference in the overall scheme of their performance, either.
 

Irish Insanity

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Um, they have a full week to get ready, so no it does NOT make a massive difference, ever. These are PRO athletes, and the ONLY time it makes a difference is for teams that play multiple games in a week. NOT for teams that play ONCE a week.

It literally is just an excuse. Coaches are just superstitious AF, and it is just practical for them to do this. Not unlike the Niners a coupe years ago. Did not make a difference in the overall scheme of their performance, either.
No, College players aren't professionals. They have more in their weekly schedule than game prep.

Player often say they are creatures of habit. They prefer everything repetitive and the same thru the season.

We obviously differ in opinion.
 

philipm31

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45 years of jet lag: What happens when teams cross time zones? | NHLNumbers.com


This is in hockey, where they basically play football on ICE, on SKATES...and do it more than once a week too.

Perhaps, after those regular ET-to-PT trips, teams think they're more tired than they are, but when they get on the ice, muscle memory, adrenaline, and their combined decades of aerobic training and hockey experience take over.

Whatever the reason, it doesn't appear to be the case that regular coast-to-coast travel significantly reduces a team's chances of winning its first game on that road trip.

It is not a reason, it is simply an excuse, particularly when you only have to play ONE game a week, not three or four--or more.

It did not seem to affect that Cardinals that last four games that they played in LA, and none of those games were in primetime, either.

It is a logical fallacy, but fallacious nonetheless.
 

philipm31

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No, College players aren't professionals. They have more in their weekly schedule than game prep.

Player often say they are creatures of habit. They prefer everything repetitive and the same thru the season.

We obviously differ in opinion.

Yay for them being college players, but it still does not actually affect their performance, nor should it.

Did you SEE the Irish travel in FIRST CLASS to Clemson? They are coddled as fvck.

Did it matter to the Irish teams that took a cross-country train ride to LA? No. And those teams had no way to practice on a moving train while USC was practicing and waiting for them in LA. It is just not true, at all. Unless it is an international game like the Navy game in Ireland. Even then, it was known about and scheduled already, so that the team and coaches already knew what they were going to do in order to prepare for the game.

And you were the one that brought up the NFL and pro athletes, my friend.

There is simply no excuse whatsoever to be flat for an entire half, maybe a series or two, but that is it. If you need more than that to get "into" a game, then you do not need to be on the field at all. The adrenaline alone of being on the field and getting hit in the mouth from the first snap should be more than enough to get your blood pumping and your mind focused on the game.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I only caught segments of the game. Didn't have the chance to watch it w/o interruption.

-A win is a win.
-No significant injuries.
-Why the trick play, coach? Good grief. It's fucking Navy.
-Why weren't the backups in sooner? Esp Wimbush, Adams/Williams. Risking Procise and Kizer that late in the game while up by three scores is asinine.
-Overall, good defense against the option (again). BVG has that going for him.
-On to USC. Go Irish.
 

Irish Insanity

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The Irish didn't change time zones, back 3 hours. Man you sure stretch this conversation to what it never was. And I did bring up pro athletes. But only you narrowed it to that. Like you said 'These are PRO athletes.' Those were your words.
 
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koonja

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Bluegold,

Blew my mind that after what happened to Zaire, and the fact that we don't have QB depth, we run the play when we're up 3 scores and can basically down it with a minute left. The same run that hurt Zaire.

Also, Adams needs to be in more in the beginning of the game to keep both him and CJ fresh, rather than running CJ until he's tired then letting Adams play IMO.
 

Irish#1

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Um, they have a full week to get ready, so no it does NOT make a massive difference, ever. These are PRO athletes, and the ONLY time it makes a difference is for teams that play multiple games in a week. NOT for teams that play ONCE a week.

It literally is just an excuse. Coaches are just superstitious AF, and it is just practical for them to do this. Not unlike the Niners a coupe years ago. Did not make a difference in the overall scheme of their performance, either.

Don't be so blind. I'm not going to take the time to find it, but there have been several posts on the internet that shows the lack of success west coast teams have playing in the eastern time zone. You're asking teams to change their routine and start their day three hours earlier than normal. You can't go to bed three hours early and magically fall asleep because you play three hours early. Your body just doesn't work that way.
 
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