Natty Postgame

[jpachuta33]

In other news… Shane Gillis remains undefeated ☘️

 

[Bane]

Without question, year over year, we miss on bonafide 5 stars. They are the difference that separates us from the top 3-5 recruiting teams annually.

I ask this as a new member with all (most) sincerity: are you, Giddyup, and NDFan2008 the same poster? I swear the three of you echo and like each others posts while all having the same general naysaying negative attitude. I'll hang up and listen.

 

[KMac151993]

College football fans everywhere were deprived of watching a war between Smith and Morrison. Such a shame.

Moore took Morrisons spot, no? Really no difference on the the 3rd and 11.

 

[dang227]

Still processing the game but I guess I’m just disappointed with how we coached and played. Didn’t look like the same team from the last three weeks. In saying that, amazingly we were within a td and two point conversion in the 4th and that speaks volume about these kids.

 

[IrishinSyria]

O$U made it a point to get their best player the ball and in a space to succeed, while once again we made it a point not too...Pretty simple

Great house had two TDs…

 

[IrishinSyria]

And yet with a couple plays here and there we could have stolen this game! No pressure from Ohio State and Jeter doinks it. Announcers called it as obvious a FG doesn’t help there. In the end it may have if Jeter didn’t screw the pooch. The play calls on that first & goal we lousy again. Still should have gone for it. We had momentum and thanks to Jeter and an unusual conservative decision by Freeman we lost it.

I don’t understand why people are shitting on the first and goal call. RL was picking up 4-5 automatically all night, even in more obvious situations. We got beat, but it’s not like there are any obvious play calls against that D on a short field. There’s a reason we reached deep into the trick bag for the two point conversions.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Leonard Moore played Ebuka perfectly on that 3rd and 11. Pressed at the line. Forced Ebuka outside on the sideline. Would have loved to see Gray put in that same position rather than soft coverage.

Heard, on the other hand, got absolutely dummied at the line.

 

[KPENN]

This is the best I’ve felt after a ND season ever and the most excited I’ve ever been for the next one. Next year is going to be even more wide open than this one.

 

[bobbyok1]

I ask this as a new member with all (most) sincerity: are you, Giddyup, and NDFan2008 the same poster? I swear the three of you echo and like each others posts while all having the same general naysaying negative attitude. I'll hang up and listen.

What the heck are you even talking about? I made a simple factual statement. It's common knowledge. And I have no idea who the other two posters are you are referring to.

Who goes around following which posters like other posts?

 

[bobbyok1]

Mills and Morrison don’t get hurt and this game is a toss-up against all that 5 star talent. Our injuries caught up with us.

100%, not denying this at all. I'm not suggesting we didn't have a great team this year even without all those 5 stars. We could have played with them step for step if we had all our injured guys back. This is in part an indictment on Ryan Day, probably should not have even lost the two games they did with all that talent.

I'm just stating a fact, that we rarely even get one 5-star per cycle, let alone multiple. Imagine what Freeman could do with 2 or 3 five stars per cycle.

 

[NorthDakota]

Moore took Morrisons spot, no? Really no difference on the the 3rd and 11.

They would've been lined up plenty

 

[NorthDakota]

Great house had two TDs…

He isn't the best player. Love got the ball very little. That said, awesome to see him turn up and make plays. We got a good one there. Nice to see.

 

[GATTACA!]

This is awesome.

 

[irishff1014]

That’s cool that people went to support them even though they lost. But most of the players from the video didn’t even acknowledge that the fans were there.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Rewatching the games and going through plays what killed us was our 3rd down defense. In the first half we had them at 3rd and 5 first drive and 3rd and 7 in the 3rd drive couldn't get a stop. Same thing with last drive of the game for them 3rd and long and we can't get a stop.

 

[T Town Tommy]

At the elite level the difference in winning a title and losing it is always in the details. If the Irish are going to get over the top, and I honestly think they will, it starts with understanding what your weaknesses are and improving them. I think MMFF is smart enough to do that. But you miss just a bit on a position or two and that gets magnified against really good teams. Championships are won in the offseason. Get busy making the weaknesses your strengths.

 

[ozzman]

Interesting take on the fake punt that you couldn't see from tv. Also wonder if it would've been and different if we stick to our identity in defense to start. Our inability to play good zone kept us from getting off the field in the first half.

 

[IrishTusker]

Interesting take on the fake punt that you couldn't see from tv. Also wonder if it would've been and different if we stick to our identity in defense to start. Our inability to play good zone kept us from getting off the field in the first half.

Yeah Driskell said the same thing about the defense. Maybe we still lose because of the talent gap, but ND was outcoached badly. It's strange because we did get a pass rush against PSU and UGA, despite the injuries.

 

[IrishLax]

Yeah Driskell said the same thing about the defense. Maybe we still lose because of the talent gap, but ND was outcoached badly. It's strange because we did get a pass rush against PSU and UGA, despite the injuries.

Georgia had some laughably bad OL play (especially at LT) and PSU had great OL play but their WRs sucked so we just brought tons of pressure. Golden was clearly afraid of giving up explosive plays and tried to play like Michigan/Texas but that only worked for those teams because 1) they naturally play tons of zone defense 2) both are great rushing the passer from the inside without brining blitzes 3) Ohio State self-destructed with penalties and mistakes in both games.

In retrospect, I don't know if playing "normal" defense would've worked better, because you probably get cooked the same blitzing a ton... there just wasn't a great path to winning when your DL gets stonewalled every single play AND you don't think you can play man coverage consistently on their WRs. Nightmare matchup.

 

[EvilleIrish]

Not to be a victim or recency bias...but I'm curious as to how you feel about the program now as opposed to post Bama after the 2012 season? I remember still feeling really good then.

 

[greyhammer90]

Not to be a victim or recency bias...but I'm curious as to how you feel about the program now as opposed to post Bama after the 2012 season? I remember still feeling really good then.

I felt positively in that I thought BK showed that he was a winner and I thought there would be massive recruiting dividends from making it to the championship game (which really didnt materialize.) So it felt like we'd continue to ascend. I think it's easy to forget how just beating USC felt massive back then. The NCG showed how far we had to go to reach the mountaintop though.

This time I'm more certain of Marcus (because of the Sugar and Orange Bowls) and less certain of there being recruiting dividends because of the NCG appearance. Money is what matters now. But good news, 1) We have money, 2) the University leadership wants to win, 3) we aren't some massive rebuild away from winning a chip.

 

[Bane]

Not to be a victim or recency bias...but I'm curious as to how you feel about the program now as opposed to post Bama after the 2012 season? I remember still feeling really good then.

I felt pretty good post 2012, I saw what a large gap we had between us and the truly elite, but figured BK was the right guy, and after a few really good recruiting classes we would close that gap. I was still on the BK train until Northwestern 2014, it was that game where I first truly felt we should move on from him, he wasn't the guy. As I mentioned elsewhere, Clemson 2015 really made me feel ND just wasn't ever going to win a truly "big" game again and we had been passed by. The rest of BK's tenure I always sort of kept myself at arms length with the team because I just felt there was a natural hard ceiling and a season like 2012, 18, or 20, were the very best we could do: undefeated regular season, embarrassment against the very best. I somewhat had bought into BK's gaslighting that the problem was inherent to Notre Dame.

After this year, I'm fully optimistic. Even though the season ended with the same result technically as 2012, a loss in the NCG to another blue blood, this feels worlds different. For one, we fought back to make this year a one score game deep into the 4th, the game against Alabama was over about halfway through the first quarter. Secondly, we proved a lot more this year, our path to the NCG was more harder due to the playoff format. In 2012 we beat a mid OU team, and a few other okay teams, and got put into the title game. This year we beat three top 10 teams in the playoffs, and won two NY6 bowls, along the way to the title game. We've proven a lot more this year, so there's more to feel optimistic about.

 

[IrishLax]

I felt pretty good post 2012, I saw what a large gap we had between us and the truly elite, but figured BK was the right guy, and after a few really good recruiting classes we would close that gap. I was still on the BK train until Northwestern 2014, it was that game where I first truly felt we should move on from him, he wasn't the guy. As I mentioned elsewhere, Clemson 2015 really made me feel ND just wasn't ever going to win a truly "big" game again and we had been passed by. The rest of BK's tenure I always sort of kept myself at arms length with the team because I just felt there was a natural hard ceiling and a season like 2012, 18, or 20, were the very best we could do: undefeated regular season, embarrassment against the very best. I somewhat had bought into BK's gaslighting that the problem was inherent to Notre Dame.

After this year, I'm fully optimistic. Even though the season ended with the same result technically as 2012, a loss in the NCG to another blue blood, this feels worlds different. For one, we fought back to make this year a one score game deep into the 4th, the game against Alabama was over about halfway through the first quarter. Secondly, we proved a lot more this year, our path to the NCG was more harder due to the playoff format. In 2012 we beat a mid OU team, and a few other okay teams, and got put into the title game. This year we beat three top 10 teams in the playoffs, and won two NY6 bowls, along the way to the title game. We've proven a lot more this year, so there's more to feel optimistic about.

This is the big difference. Went 7-1 against AP Top 25 teams, beat the SEC Champ in a bowl game, and beat Big Ten #2 in a bowl game. Finished the year with 3 wins over Top 10 teams.

So it wasn't just a good regular season that ends with disappointment, it was winning multiple big games against elite opponents in postseason play.

 

[tussin]

I felt pretty good post 2012, I saw what a large gap we had between us and the truly elite, but figured BK was the right guy, and after a few really good recruiting classes we would close that gap. I was still on the BK train until Northwestern 2014, it was that game where I first truly felt we should move on from him, he wasn't the guy. As I mentioned elsewhere, Clemson 2015 really made me feel ND just wasn't ever going to win a truly "big" game again and we had been passed by. The rest of BK's tenure I always sort of kept myself at arms length with the team because I just felt there was a natural hard ceiling and a season like 2012, 18, or 20, were the very best we could do: undefeated regular season, embarrassment against the very best. I somewhat had bought into BK's gaslighting that the problem was inherent to Notre Dame.

After this year, I'm fully optimistic. Even though the season ended with the same result technically as 2012, a loss in the NCG to another blue blood, this feels worlds different. For one, we fought back to make this year a one score game deep into the 4th, the game against Alabama was over about halfway through the first quarter. Secondly, we proved a lot more this year, our path to the NCG was more harder due to the playoff format. In 2012 we beat a mid OU team, and a few other okay teams, and got put into the title game. This year we beat three top 10 teams in the playoffs, and won two NY6 bowls, along the way to the title game. We've proven a lot more this year, so there's more to feel optimistic about.

I generally agree on the sentiment of this post, but getting to the finish line will require a step forward in talent that ND hasn't had in 40+ years. The program hasn't shown it can achieve that level of success in recruiting or the portal; fundamentally, something will need to change or at a minimum be greatly enhanced.

That said, love this team, love the program right now, and am completely sold on Freeman. But, there's still a ceiling at ND that appears to be lower than the top pay-for-play blueblood on any given year.

 

[greyhammer90]

I generally agree on the sentiment of this post, but getting to the finish line will require a step forward in talent that ND hasn't had in 40+ years. The program hasn't shown it can achieve that level of success in recruiting or the portal; fundamentally, something will need to change or at a minimum be greatly enhanced.

That said, love this team, love the program right now, and am completely sold on Freeman. But, there's still a ceiling at ND that appears to be lower than the top pay-for-play blueblood on any given year.

I think this is where the playoffs actually increase our odds. As Wizard has brought up many times, playoffs is a terrible system for guaranteeing the best team gets a ring. Even if you're better than everyone you play by two touchdowns in Vegas, over 4 rounds you have a below 20% chance of winning it all. I think the OSU team is going to stub their toe or get a major injury on the way to the NCG more often then not.

If ND can hang out in that top 5 program range, I think it's only a matter of time. This isndoubly true if the playoffs dont fix the seeding and the 5th seed continues to get a good draw.. Hell I think it could've happened this year if Morrison doesn't get a foot caught in the turf and Sneed and Mills don't beat Indiana's OL so badly they hurt each other.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Howard got the ball out quicker than any QB we played all year

 

[IrishTusker]

I think this is where the playoffs actually increase our odds. As Wizard has brought up many times, playoffs is a terrible system for guaranteeing the best team gets a ring. Even if you're better than everyone you play by two touchdowns in Vegas, over 4 rounds you have a below 20% chance of winning it all. I think the OSU team is going to stub their toe or get a major injury on the way to the NCG more often then not.

If ND can hang out in that top 5 program range, I think it's only a matter of time. Hell I think it could've happened this year if Morrison doesn't get a foot caught in the turf and Sneed and Mills don't beat Indiana's OL so badly they hurt each other.

ND's 5* problem remains and doesn't appear to be going away.

We'll see how injuries look next year. If it's actually luck rather than something else, we shouldn't have multiple backbreaking injuries again. And we shouldn't have a turf field.

 

[RDU Irish]

Not to be a victim or recency bias...but I'm curious as to how you feel about the program now as opposed to post Bama after the 2012 season? I remember still feeling really good then.

We were so skin of our teeth all year to get those wins and lacked so much depth that I always thought that team was more pretender than contender. Remember having the debate with a buddy about going to the championship game and we just knew we had no chance.

I didn't feel good about this one with OSU playing so well at the right time but I thought we could defend and score enough to have a really good shot. Post game - I thought our defense had their worst outing of the year by far, gameplan and execution. We could have beaten OSU - we largely beat ourselves. No way in hell we were beating Bama in 2012.

Bolster the DL with depth - not even talking about a lottery pick edge rusher. I don't see a ton of other "problem" areas and you could argue that was only a problem due to injury. Would be nice to have a real passing game but owning the trenches on both sides of the ball and playing top 5 defense is a good recipe for success.

 

[ozzman]

I think we're in a better spot than 2012 because we have a young and hungry coach that gets ND. Every single national post game podcast mentioned they haven't seen many college football "teams" as close and bonded as ND this year. That's on Marcus and his culture. 2012 we had a coach that had a foot out the door and would've jumped to Philly in a heartbeat.

 

[NDisme]

Remember prior to the 2013 season was the frozen 5 including our young starting QB Everrett Golson which was a massive blow to that season