More SEC arrests

[Luckylucci]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Like I said the other day, Alabama *finds* room. RT <a href="https://twitter.com/JFowlerCBS">@JFowlerCBS</a>: Saban said QB Parker McLeod will explore transfer options</p>— SB Nation Recruiting (@SBNRecruiting) <a href="https://twitter.com/SBNRecruiting/statuses/471349339676508160">May 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
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What if you grew up being an Alabama fan and your dream was to play football for the Crimson Tide. You get a scholarhship, accept, and then in year two Saban tells you that your out. What a trip.

 

[T Town Tommy]

What if you grew up being an Alabama fan and your dream was to play football for the Crimson Tide. You get a scholarhship, accept, and then in year two Saban tells you that your out. What a trip.

Saban didn't tell him he was out and he didn't have a scholarship. He told him he wanted to see the field as a QB, then he should look elsewhere. Happens every year and virtually every program in college in some form or fashion. Which is the worse of two evils... telling a kid he has a chance of playing time when he has none or telling him he will never see the field? Maybe he should have "violated team rules" like stealing from a teammate or flunking multiple drug tests. Then, there would be a reason why "he is no longer with the team."

 

[NDdomer2]

why would he feel like he had a chance if he didnt have a scholarship?

 

[T Town Tommy]

why would he feel like he had a chance if he didnt have a scholarship?

He was fourth string QB and will be fifth string when Coker suits up. He was told if he wanted to play college football then he should explore his options elsewhere as he would not see the field at Bama. Pretty simple. Stay and sit or go somewhere where you may get to play.

 

[NDdomer2]

He was fourth string QB and will be fifth string when Coker suits up. He was told if he wanted to play college football then he should explore his options elsewhere as he would not see the field at Bama. Pretty simple. Stay and sit or go somewhere where you may get to play.

No I totally get why and how the depth chart works. Just don't see why any of it matters if he wasn't even on scholarship to begin with. Or did you mean something else by that?

 

[IrishLion]

He was fourth string QB and will be fifth string when Coker suits up. He was told if he wanted to play college football then he should explore his options elsewhere as he would not see the field at Bama. Pretty simple. Stay and sit or go somewhere where you may get to play.

Right, but it had nothing to do with being over 85 still, right?

 

[T Town Tommy]

No I totally get why and how the depth chart works. Just don't see why any of it matters if he wasn't even on scholarship to begin with. Or did you mean something else by that?

McLeod was on scholarship as far as I know. I will verify that however.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Right, but it had nothing to do with being over 85 still, right?

Right now Bama is one or two over iirc. The general consensus was that at least 1-2 of the QBs would seek a transfer if they could not elevate on the depth chart. McLeod has been given every chance to do that and up till now, he has not been able to. Every player at Bama knows where they stand in relation to depth charts, playing time, etc. If they feel they won't see the field, then they have a choice to make. Pretty simple. We have a four star RB that fits in the same category. He will probably never see the field at Bama... even though he is a hoss. He should go somewhere where he can play. Guess running off four star players falls in "roster management" as well.

 

[Luckylucci]

Saban didn't tell him he was out and he didn't have a scholarship. He told him he wanted to see the field as a QB, then he should look elsewhere. Happens every year and virtually every program in college in some form or fashion. Which is the worse of two evils... telling a kid he has a chance of playing time when he has none or telling him he will never see the field? Maybe he should have "violated team rules" like stealing from a teammate or flunking multiple drug tests. Then, there would be a reason why "he is no longer with the team."

Completely respect your opinion but I highly doubt thats how the conversations go.

 

[IrishLion]

No seriously you guys, Saban's just looking out for these kids' best interest when he oversigns and then has to tell the underachievers that they have to start over at another school if they still want to play football.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Completely respect your opinion but I highly doubt thats how the conversations go.

But neither of us really know.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Right now Bama is one or two over iirc. The general consensus was that at least 1-2 of the QBs would seek a transfer if they could not elevate on the depth chart. McLeod has been given every chance to do that and up till now, he has not been able to. Every player at Bama knows where they stand in relation to depth charts, playing time, etc. If they feel they won't see the field, then they have a choice to make. Pretty simple. We have a four star RB that fits in the same category. He will probably never see the field at Bama... even though he is a hoss. He should go somewhere where he can play. Guess running off four star players falls in "roster management" as well.

4 star means nothing when they get on campus. Saban has had 2 and 3 star players drafted and some 5 stars flame out. Perhaps Saban missed on his evaluation of this particular recruit. It happens. But at many schools, you get punished by having to eat the kids' scholarship as he rides out his time on special teams or 3rd string (unless the player initiates the transfer request). But at Bama and other schools, esp in the SEC, you just have a conversation with the player so he realizes that he needs to transfer or you put him on medical scholly, and THAT is how you avoid being punished for misevaluating a kid.

The 85 man scholly-limit is merely a suggestion/talking point at Bama. What they do ain't illegal, but it sure ain't ethical.

 

[T Town Tommy]

4 star means nothing when they get on campus. Saban has had 2 and 3 star players drafted and some 5 stars flame out. Perhaps Saban missed on his evaluation of this particular recruit. It happens. But at many schools, you get punished by having to eat the kids' scholarship as he rides out his time on special teams or 3rd string (unless the player initiates the transfer request). But at Bama and other schools, esp in the SEC, you just have a conversation with the player so he realizes that he needs to transfer or you put him on medical scholly, and THAT is how you avoid being punished for misevaluating a kid.

The 85 man scholly-limit is merely a suggestion/talking point at Bama. What they do ain't illegal, but it sure ain't ethical.

There are plenty of players on Bama's roster that fit in that category so I don't necessarily agree with your assessment. On the flip side, I do think that the Irish "self impose" when it isn't necessary and then try to use that as the basis for the argument of oversigning. But keep in mind, as the Irish increase their skill levels in football, more players will leave early for the NFL, some will transfer, and then the Irish will either really self impose and be down 10+ scholarships every year or they will take more players. Your program can't put 8-9 in the draft every year and survive. Up till now, the Irish expect all their players to stay four years. I think times are starting to change in SB however.

 

[NDinL.A.]

There are plenty of players on Bama's roster that fit in that category so I don't necessarily agree with your assessment. On the flip side, I do think that the Irish "self impose" when it isn't necessary and then try to use that as the basis for the argument of oversigning. But keep in mind, as the Irish increase their skill levels in football, more players will leave early for the NFL, some will transfer, and then the Irish will either really self impose and be down 10+ scholarships every year or they will take more players. Your program can't put 8-9 in the draft every year and survive. Up till now, the Irish expect all their players to stay four years. I think times are starting to change in SB however.

* Name a time we have 'self-imposed' when it wasn't necessary.

* Name a time we have oversigned.

* Just because Saban has kept certain players, doesn't mean he hasn't jettisoned multiple players, which have been documented aplenty.

Fans that try and cover this up or make it sound as if Saban is looking out for his players' best interests make me laugh. Just like when they say they educate their players lol. Look, I followed UCLA basketball growing up, and when their laughable grad rates were brought up, all I could say is "yup, they stink, but I just want to win basketball games, so I really don't care." Making excuses just makes you look worse in that situation.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

And of course, the important point is that is ignored here is what comes first, academics or athletics?

The simple truth is that for Saban the world is football. He accommodates academics to maintain eligibility. Not the other way around. So if a kid comes to Bama for an education, his athletic accomplishments determine that degree likelihood, more that his academic accomplishments. Did I get that right?

 

[T Town Tommy]

* Name a time we have 'self-imposed' when it wasn't necessary.

* Name a time we have oversigned.

* Just because Saban has kept certain players, doesn't mean he hasn't jettisoned multiple players, which have been documented aplenty.

Fans that try and cover this up or make it sound as if Saban is looking out for his players' best interests make me laugh. Just like when they say they educate their players lol. Look, I followed UCLA basketball growing up, and when their laughable grad rates were brought up, all I could say is "yup, they stink, but I just want to win basketball games, so I really don't care." Making excuses just makes you look worse in that situation.

And just because ND dismisses a player due to "violation of team rules" doesn't mean it was or was not justified. We don't know because ND doesn't put it out there. For me to say it wasn't warranted would be BS. I don't know. And you or nobody else knows what Saban tells theses kids. To imply you do is BS as well.

As far as Saban and education, he has done a fairly good job of raising the status of education amongst his players since he has been there. And like him or not, he will sit you if you don't do your school work or take it seriously. Just ask K. Drake. He knows all too well how Saban feels about school work.

 

[T Town Tommy]

And of course, the important point is that is ignored here is what comes first, academics or athletics?

The simple truth is that for Saban the world is football. He accommodates academics to maintain eligibility. Not the other way around. So if a kid comes to Bama for an education, his athletic accomplishments determine that degree likelihood, more that his academic accomplishments. Did I get that right?

Call K. Drake and ask him about academics. He can tell you.

 

[NDinL.A.]

And just because ND dismisses a player due to "violation of team rules" doesn't mean it was or was not justified. We don't know because ND doesn't put it out there. For me to say it wasn't warranted would be BS. I don't know. And you or nobody else knows what Saban tells theses kids. To imply you do is BS as well.

As far as Saban and education, he has done a fairly good job of raising the status of education amongst his players since he has been there. And like him or not, he will sit you if you don't do your school work or take it seriously. Just ask K. Drake. He knows all too well how Saban feels about school work.

You said:

On the flip side, I do think that the Irish "self impose" when it isn't necessary and then try to use that as the basis for the argument of oversigning.

Again, name a time. I know the reason for every transfer in the past 4 years bc of the people I know that are very close to the program, so have at it. Can't wait to hear it.

On the flip side, Bama's oversigning is well-documented. You yourself said that Saban probably initiates the conversations. Your own words.

Shoot, I checked VERY quickly, and here are the words in January from your own Bama site:

That totals up to a total loss of 18 guys. We already have 24 commitments, and for the sake of this analysis, we'll assume that Bama will end up signing the "full" class of 27 possible. That means if we signed all 27 today, the roster would be nine guys too big. Factor in Coker coming in in the fall, and that number jumps to ten too big. So where will those open slots come from?

So here's the final tally - if we sign 27 (and they all qualify academically), Bama will basically have to cut eight guys that don't have their degrees yet. I want to emphasize that there really isn't any wiggle room here. No amount of backcounting/sleight of hand helps with these final numbers. Unless some of the 16 unenrolled current commits are going to take a greyshirt (and not sign on national signing day), those slots will have to come from the current roster.

Need I say more? Now, I'm sure you'll have a comeback ready about how that writer actually hates Bama or his facts are way off or whatever, but the facts are plain as day. When I have more time I can find more links, with players who have essentially been cut (I remember very recently a recruit was forced to grayshirt - AND PAY FOR HIS OWN SCHOOLING - because Saban wanted to fit in a better recruit, even though the poor kid had committed first. Typical Saban.)

 

[Redbar]

Don't disagree but I can also make the argument that if you sign to play at college, then you have to stay all four years as well. No early entry. No transferring unless it meets a stringent requirement, etc. We ask schools to make four year commitments to players and then the player makes a 2-3 year commitment to the school? Furthermore, I think a coach should have to fulfill their current contract as well before jumping ship to the next big coaching deal. Is oversigning wrong... no. Is it unethical.... maybe.

I understand your point but the university is not a young adult, it does not have family considerations, it doesn't get homesick, physically injured or have a relatively short opportunity to make a living at this sport. Coaches are adults and it could be contractually agreed upon by the schools and the coaches to make leaving before their contract is up (by either party) extremely painful and undesirable. But trying to equate the interests of a young person as an individual with the interests of a school as a program is not comparing apples to apples and if you can agree with that then you can't tell me that oversigning is "maybe" unethical.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Again, name a time. I know the reason for every transfer in the past 4 years bc of the people I know that are very close to the program, so have at it. Can't wait to hear it.

Several posters on IE have complained in the past about self imposing. I can't really recall the exact players, times, etc because I don't really keep up with the ND roster. You would have to ask others out here that do to get the exact info.

Shoot, I checked VERY quickly, and here are the words in January from your own Bama site:



Need I say more? Now, I'm sure you'll have a comeback ready about how that writer actually hates Bama or his facts are way off or whatever, but the facts are plain as day. When I have more time I can find more links, with players who have essentially been cut (I remember very recently a recruit was forced to grayshirt - AND PAY FOR HIS OWN SCHOOLING - because Saban wanted to fit in a better recruit, even though the poor kid had committed first. Typical Saban.)

Pretty easy to dismiss the poster from the Bama site you reference. His numbers are extremely wrong. This I can state as I do follow Bama's roster fairly closely. They are currently 1-2 over the 85 and have expected at least 1-2 QBs as well as 1-2 RBs transfer as far back as last fall. That doesn't even take in to account the RB that was kicked off the team due to him complaining about playing time as well as negative recruiting when Bama had recruiting weekends last fall.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I understand your point but the university is not a young adult, it does not have family considerations, it doesn't get homesick, physically injured or have a relatively short opportunity to make a living at this sport. Coaches are adults and it could be contractually agreed upon by the schools and the coaches to make leaving before their contract is up (by either party) extremely painful and undesirable. But trying to equate the interests of a young person as an individual with the interests of a school as a program is not comparing apples to apples and if you can agree with that then you can't tell me that oversigning is "maybe" unethical.

I know what Saban tells recruits however. He makes no guarantee of playing time, nor does he tell them their scholarship is four years. When the player signs, they and their parents or guardian know this. If a player wants a guaranteed four years they probably should look somewhere else that offers a four year scholly. It would be more unethical to lie to the kid and his parents, guardian up front. I know for a fact Saban doesn't do that and if one reads the comments by the recruits who sign with Bama, they often reference those points.

 

[ACamp1900]

War Damn Eagle

 

[T Town Tommy]

War Damn Eagle

Good grief....

 

[Redbar]

I know what Saban tells recruits however. He makes no guarantee of playing time, nor does he tell them their scholarship is four years. When the player signs, they and their parents or guardian know this. If a player wants a guaranteed four years they probably should look somewhere else that offers a four year scholly. It would be more unethical to lie to the kid and his parents, guardian up front. I know for a fact Saban doesn't do that and if one reads the comments by the recruits who sign with Bama, they often reference those points.

Just because I tell you upfront that I might screw you in the future doesn't make me an ethical person if I decide to screw you. It might make me honest, but what I was honest about could be that I lack ethics. What makes this situation wrong IMO is that the young man can't do anything about the fact that he isn't better than other kids. He might be fulfilling all of his obligations academically, and to the team, he might be giving all of his effort, meanwhile some of the other knuckleheads are on cruise control, but he can't change the fact that maybe someone came along who was better than him. Heck he is getting tossed for being behind a guy that signed with another school. To my mind this is unethical, most of me thinks it is unfair, but part of me says that these kids have to stop playing with fire and wondering why they get burnt.

In other words the only way to change the dirty aspect of amateur athletics is if the kids lead the way. That sounds bass ackwards.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Just because I tell you upfront that I might screw you in the future doesn't make me an ethical person if I decide to screw you. It might make me honest, but what I was honest about could be that I lack ethics. What makes this situation wrong IMO is that the young man can't do anything about the fact that he isn't better than other kids. He might be fulfilling all of his obligations academically, and to the team, he might be giving all of his effort, meanwhile some of the other knuckleheads are on cruise control, but he can't change the fact that maybe someone came along who was better than him. Heck he is getting tossed for being behind a guy that signed with another school. To my mind this is unethical, most of me thinks it is unfair, but part of me says that these kids have to stop playing with fire and wondering why they get burnt.

In other words the only way to change the dirty aspect of amateur athletics is if the kids lead the way. That sounds bass ackwards.

Don't really disagree but try telling that to a kid out of high school who has been told his entire life he is the next Bo Jackson or Tom Brady. It's all a pretty dirty business and will remain so with the billions of dollars that change hands every year.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Don't really disagree but try telling that to a kid out of high school who has been told his entire life he is the next Bo Jackson or Tom Brady. It's all a pretty dirty business and will remain so with the billions of dollars that change hands every year.

Bingo.

ND's basic argument is that student-athletes should be treated as students first, with the University bearing all the attendant fiduciary obligations that flow from that. Every other major program can simply point to the $$$, and argue (persuasively) that this is a ruthless business in which ND can't hope to compete for titles while it's voluntarily hamstringing itself with a moral code that no one else seems to be following.

I can't dispute anything Tommy has posted thus far. ND simply finds itself in a difficult position right now.

 

[ACamp1900]

Geaux Tigers

 

[ACamp1900]

Rock Chalk!

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Fuck Bama. Fuck the $EC. That is all.

 

[PANDFAN]

2014 Alabama Roster Updates: First Day of (Summer) School - Roll 'Bama Roll

With first half summer session classes beginning on Tuesday, most of the football team is in Tuscaloosa with a few notable exceptions.

2014 DT signee Johnny Dwight will not be enrolled.

"I didn't go up this weekend. It's going to be June when I go up," Dwight told BOL.

The former 4star prospect hit a snag with his graduation test, but expects to be in Tuscaloosa sooner than later.

"I took my test and fell a few points short. My school filed a waiver for me. I'm guaranteed a waiver, but it's going to be June- like June 12. I'm still good. My grades are good- I got A's and B's- and I'm qualified."
I can't help but be a little skeptical over this whole situation. He has long been rumored to have some qualifying issues. Add in the odd waiver thing and this might take awhile.

The last day to register for the first or full session is Thursday, May 29. Arriving in mid-June is not going to do him much good. At the very best, it all gets sorted out and he registers for the second summer session with classes beginning on July 2. If he has to wait for the fall to register, it is almost guaranteed he will redshirt (might he be a greyshirt candidate?). Worst case scenario: juco.

It's quiet. A little TOO quiet

Another question mark is Montel McBride and there seems to be absolutely NO news on him anywhere. Sometimes no news is good news but in this case, it feels like bad news. Unless we can get some eyewitnesses on campus to actually see him go into a classroom, I cannot say with certainty that he will be a part of the team this season.

As for everyone else: Bo Scarbrough, Dominick Jackson, and O.J. Smith all appear to be in the clear.

* UPDATE: There are reports that Bo Scarbrough has to take one more class this summer in order to be eligible. If this is true, it likely means he will redshirt which is just as well with all the studs ahead of him.

The other shoe drops

You knew this was coming, right? Poor Parker McLeod who was buried deep in the Alabama QB depth chart behind Jacob Coker, Blake Sims, Alec Morris, Cooper Bateman, and David Cornwell will be transferring to another school. He redshirted his one year at the Capstone. We wish him the best of luck wherever he lands.

Numbers

Before this all happened, RBR's Slice posited that the team was at 88 players on scholarship and need to get down to 85 by fall. As soon as the dust settles, we will have a full roster report.