Montana

[IrishBlood81]

Okay, Maybe this has been gone through already but I'm really confused.
With all this recruiting going on I'm starting to wonder... We've got about two scholarships left if we keep the 5th year seniors.
We have Dayne Crist, Tommy Rees, Everret Golson, Luke Massa (Not sure if hes still a QB or not),
Why, in heaven and earth, would we extend a precious,beautiful, rare scholarship to a less than mediocre quarterback...who, lets face it, has a 5% chance to start/play.
Does Kelly have a different plan for this kid or is all just about who his father was? I understand respecting what Montana Sr. did for us....but we need those scholarships! EVERY ONE OF THEM! (Besides his dad has got the money to pay for him to go to school at ND!)
I just really don't understand the reasoning behind this. Any light you all can shed on this?
I'm not bashing the kid or anything...maybe hes got more potential than I realize and theres just something I'm missing...but thats why I started this thread so cheers!


thanks!


81

 

[Irish Insanity]

Free Shape-Ups for the football team!

 

[military_irish]

I know scholarships are on a year to year basis, was his renewed for this up coming season? I really don't know. But when it comes to a parents wealth, I think if a player earns a sholarship then he has earned it and it is up to the coaches to extend that to him.

Many kids get offered scholarships who have wealthy parents, but its honor to be giving a scholarship. He must have done something to earn it.

But I understand where you are coming from, their is an abundant amount of QB's on the roster.

 

[ND22SB]

I know scholarships are on a year to year basis, was his renewed for this up coming season? I really don't know. But when it comes to a parents wealth, I think if a player earns a sholarship then he has earned it and it is up to the coaches to extend that to him.

Many kids get offered scholarships who have wealthy parents, but its honor to be giving a scholarship. He must have done something to earn it.

But I understand where you are coming from, their is an abundant amount of QB's on the roster.

I typically read post more than respond and this is one well deserving of a response. There are quite a few qb's but in fairness to Montana he had to have done something to earn it. Well said MI.

 

[IrishBlood81]

Many kids get offered scholarships who have wealthy parents, but its honor to be giving a scholarship. He must have done something to earn it.

But I understand where you are coming from, their is an abundant amount of QB's on the roster.

Yeah that was my conclusion as well....I really really really pray he did something to deserve it that will help us next year.
I was just hoping somebody had some insider info on what exactly he did to deserve it or that Kelly confirms that he deserves it.

 

[BGIF]

To my knowledge ND does not pull scholarships like the SEC does. Whether he got scholarship out of HS isn't the issue. I posted in a previous thread on this topic that at the end of the Holtz era a scholarship was awarded to an OL whose father was on the BOT and had donated a buidling to the university. He should have had an athletic scholarship. Davie was stuck with one slot being filled by a Div II or III player. To the athlete's credit, he worked his butt off and by his senior year he was a contributor and played well. He wasn't a starter but he was no longer a liability.

The prime connection is that during his junior or senior year ND lost 2 scholarships to the NCAA over Dunbar. ND could have use his slot to bring in another blue chip. Daddy was the CEO of a large corporation and could have paid his son's way (as could Joe). But he didn't the scholarship was renewed.

Montana filled a need as a bridge when there was an acute need for a warm body at QB. He was awarded a scholarship but his PT has been minimal. And in all likelihood won't see the field next year unless some metamorphsis takes place next Spring. Ruffer, a second team All-American, doesn't have a scholarship yet he won his job through competition.

We can argue fairness but I'll got back to my first paragraph. I don't recall ND not renewing a scholarship for lack of production on the playing field.

 

[Al H.]

How do we know he doesn't deserve a scholarship? He's a back-up. We don't watch the practices. He shows a few glimmers of brilliance a la dad when he does play. Remember Devine didn't let Joe start either till he'd come in late in 2 different games considered to be lost causes and turned them into ND wins. The coach knows what he's doing.

 

[BGIF]

... The coach knows what he's doing.

But we don't know what the coach IS doing. Hence the speculation on a team with an shortage of available scholarships and an imbalance at QB and K.

 

[ThePiombino]

How do we know he doesn't deserve a scholarship? He's a back-up. We don't watch the practices. He shows a few glimmers of brilliance a la dad when he does play. Remember Devine didn't let Joe start either till he'd come in late in 2 different games considered to be lost causes and turned them into ND wins. The coach knows what he's doing.

Please. Humor us. Name one.

 

[irish4ever]

To my knowledge ND does not pull scholarships like the SEC does. Whether he got scholarship out of HS isn't the issue. I posted in a previous thread on this topic that at the end of the Holtz era a scholarship was awarded to an OL whose father was on the BOT and had donated a buidling to the university. He should have had an athletic scholarship. Davie was stuck with one slot being filled by a Div II or III player. To the athlete's credit, he worked his butt off and by his senior year he was a contributor and played well. He wasn't a starter but he was no longer a liability.

The prime connection is that during his junior or senior year ND lost 2 scholarships to the NCAA over Dunbar. ND could have use his slot to bring in another blue chip. Daddy was the CEO of a large corporation and could have paid his son's way (as could Joe). But he didn't the scholarship was renewed.

Montana filled a need as a bridge when there was an acute need for a warm body at QB. He was awarded a scholarship but his PT has been minimal. And in all likelihood won't see the field next year unless some metamorphsis takes place next Spring. Ruffer, a second team All-American, doesn't have a scholarship yet he won his job through competition.We can argue fairness but I'll got back to my first paragraph. I don't recall ND not renewing a scholarship for lack of production on the playing field.

I vote the Ruffer gets Montana's scholarship for 2011.

 

[irishmarine]

Are we really challenging kellys decisions again? Are we the same people who questioned his recruiting? Come on guys, if the kid gets one he's earned it.

 

[Veer option]

Please. Humor us. Name one.

Perhaps the pass at the end of the half in the Michigan game that set the Irish up for either a TD or field goal. Unfortunately the Irish got neither because Montana overthrew the receiver in the endzone.

 

[BGIF]

... Unfortunately the Irish got neither because Montana overthrew the receiver in the endzone.

Now in that case he did look like his old man. Joe had some great moments, hitting 7 out of 8 passes in the last possession or two of a number of games to pull out the wins. Early in his career he came off the bench to do so but as an upperclassman, Joe was the QB through the first 3-1/2 quarters of the game when ND was lackluster and the opponent built up a lead.

Think about it, with all those clutch hot handed wins how come Joe wasn't selected as an All-American?

Because he was a career 50% passer. He was streaky, cold, cold, HOT. He got consistentcy under Bill Walsh at S.F.

The son has thrown a couple of nice passes in a game or a Blue & Gold game. He hasn't shown consistency. That can be said abput Rees but Rees beat him out when Crist went down.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Most people on this board seem to view things as a little too "all-or-nothing" as I read the posts. Things happen in a time and circumstance, and the circumstance may alter in time. For Nate Montana, as BGIF said, Kelly rewarded him with a well-earned scholarship for stepping in when we were desperate for QB back-up. Montana DID earn that scholarship for that moment [especially since it allowed Kelly to dismiss ideas of blowing off a year's eligibility for Hendrix and Massa.] Montana continued to allow Kelly to relax a bit on that issue right to year's end, and the two frosh still have all their eligibility and we not only survived the Dayne injury but thrived as a team. So there is no question that Kelly did the right thing there.

As to the question of this coming year: we are now in a different time and circumstance where it is very unlikely that Nate will be able to out-compete the QB competition on a level playing field with all the guys in Spring ball. Nevertheless, BGIF's point is still well taken. ND doesn't abandon its players. My thought would be: did Kelly and Nate have an agreement with one another that this would just be one year [not a LEGAL agreement but a person-to-person human agreement] ?? Or, has Nate come to Kelly himself and done the Hero move of offering the scholarship back for the good of his team?? If either of these happened, then I believe that Kelly would count on using the scholarship elsewhere. If they didn't, then I , like BGIF, say: we/ND don't do that. Pragmatics is the rest of the world; Values is Notre Dame.

 

[BGIF]

M.I.A.???

M.I.A.???

Good article by Coach D of ISD on team and recruiting numbers for 2012 over in another thread. Here's the Link:

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/58211-2012-nd-recruiting-numbers.html

We can debate Coach D's assessment over in that thread. There is one aspect that is germaine to this thread.

Coach D notes 4-5 QB in 2012 depending on whether Crist stays or moves on. Then he names Rees, Hendrix, Massa, and Golson. That's 4 & 5 counting Crist.

No Montana? Nary a mention.

ISD's Eligibility Chart lists Montana through 2013.

Oversight by Coach D or does he know something we've only been speculating.

 

[DillonHall]

Are we really challenging kellys decisions again? Are we the same people who questioned his recruiting? Come on guys, if the kid gets one he's earned it.

Kelly didn't have a choice but to give Montana a scholarship because he was the back-up/third string QB. He didn't earn it; he got it by default since there was a lack of QB depth due to faulty recruiting.

 

[IrishBlood81]

Are we really challenging kellys decisions again? Are we the same people who questioned his recruiting? Come on guys, if the kid gets one he's earned it.

No, I am not. Not even close. Just confused and asking why.

Most people on this board seem to view things as a little too "all-or-nothing" as I read the posts. Things happen in a time and circumstance, and the circumstance may alter in time. For Nate Montana, as BGIF said, Kelly rewarded him with a well-earned scholarship for stepping in when we were desperate for QB back-up. Montana DID earn that scholarship for that moment [especially since it allowed Kelly to dismiss ideas of blowing off a year's eligibility for Hendrix and Massa.] Montana continued to allow Kelly to relax a bit on that issue right to year's end, and the two frosh still have all their eligibility and we not only survived the Dayne injury but thrived as a team. So there is no question that Kelly did the right thing there.

I don't agree with this. I don't think a Scholarship should be like a sucker where you do something good and little johnny gets a scholarship for next year. I understand about ND taking care of its own but there is also a price of WINNING. And that is what this is all about. You would think that Montanas dad would want ND to not give his kid a 'ship so we could use it else where to get us back to the top.
Montana did do good and kept those guys from having to waste a year but I still don't think that in itself is enough to deserve a scholarship.
Kelly knows what hes doing so he must have done something to earn it.

Kelly didn't have a choice but to give Montana a scholarship because he was the back-up/third string QB. He didn't earn it; he got it by default since there was a lack of QB depth due to faulty recruiting.

I hate posts like this. Ruins threads and makes me regret posting it. You don't know that and it has nothing to do with faulty recruiting.


81

 

[DillonHall]

Please explain what's wrong with my post.

 

[IrishBlood81]

Please explain what's wrong with my post.

Because its negative speculation. You don't know what you posted as fact and it slants against Kelly.

 

[DillonHall]

Because its negative speculation. You don't know what you posted as fact and it slants against Kelly.

I don't think you're understanding my statement at all. My comment is based on facts, not speculation; Coach Weis and his staff failed to recruit enough QBs, hence the need for Kelly to sign 3 QBs last year. Because there was absolutely nobody on the roster with experience besides Crist, Kelly had to make Montana the back-up during the spring. At this point, it made sense to give Montana a scholarship (since he was in the two-deep at the most important position on the team). Are you going to honestly tell me that Montana would be an ND scholarship QB if not for his father?
I'm clearly criticizing Weis' inability to build depth at the position, so I don't understand why you think I have a problem with anything that Kelly did.

 

[military_irish]

I don't think you're understanding my statement at all. My comment is based on facts, not speculation; Coach Weis and his staff failed to recruit enough QBs, hence the need for Kelly to sign 3 QBs last year. Because there was absolutely nobody on the roster with experience besides Crist, Kelly had to make Montana the back-up during the spring. At this point, it made sense to give Montana a scholarship (since he was in the two-deep at the most important position on the team). Are you going to honestly tell me that Montana would be an ND scholarship QB if not for his father?
I'm clearly criticizing Weis' inability to build depth at the position, so I don't understand why you think I have a problem with anything that Kelly did.

I don't know I mean Pat Dillingham earned a scholarship somehow.

 

[BGIF]

I don't know I mean Pat Dillingham earned a scholarship somehow.

Yes, he did and the next year he didn't get in a game.


Dillingham actually is a good parallel. A walkon from California he got to play due to injuries and recruiting woes. He won one game ala Joe Montana shaking down the thunder late in the game for a comeback win. Then he had another game where he made the ND equivalent of the Pisarcik Play.

 

[95NDAlumNM]

I was fairly sure that during the press conference where kelly announced that Montana had earned a scholarship that Kelly said it was a one year deal and woudl be reviewed after the year to decide whether it woudl be renewed.. .somethign about scholarships for walk-ons were for one year at a time....Someone whodul be able to find that video

 

[JDAtlanta]

If I were a top flight QB coming out of high school

If I were a top flight QB coming out of high school

I don't think you're understanding my statement at all. My comment is based on facts, not speculation; Coach Weis and his staff failed to recruit enough QBs, hence the need for Kelly to sign 3 QBs last year. Because there was absolutely nobody on the roster with experience besides Crist, Kelly had to make Montana the back-up during the spring. At this point, it made sense to give Montana a scholarship (since he was in the two-deep at the most important position on the team). Are you going to honestly tell me that Montana would be an ND scholarship QB if not for his father?
I'm clearly criticizing Weis' inability to build depth at the position, so I don't understand why you think I have a problem with anything that Kelly did.

the year after Dayne Crist, I am not going to ND. Not with Crist having 4 years of eligibility and Claussen having 3. If I am Weis, I am not giving a scholarship to someone for a roster spot. I don't there is a school with 3 five star QB's on their roster. Montana's scholarship may have been political, but he did perform well in the Blue/Gold game.

 

[Al H.]

There were several in fact. He scrambled nicely on several occasions. The deep ball at the end of the half against Michigan. I know he overthrew the receiver in the end zone on the next play, but it was his first effort and that looked like adrenalin. I was screaming for a field goal attempt. Remember how awful Tommy was in that game after Dayne went out? Yet, he showed something in practice that kept the coach interested in developing him. Again, let the coach do his job, he seems well suited to it.