Miami Postgame Thread

[NDFAN2008]

Reviewing film a few things that need to change on defense:
Dawson needs/should be starting
Kyngstonn Asa should not come off the field against A&M you wanna rest him do it against Purdue when we are up 30
Hobbs just isnt it, if you need to give Smith a break put Tae Johnson in

 

[Dale]

Dawson needs/should be starting

Starting is a meaningless word. Dawson and Onye both tied for the most snaps at DT. It was basically a 55/45 split between the 4. The ratio could change, but people saying Hinish started over Dawson aren’t saying anything of importance

 

[NDFAN2008]

Starting is a meaningless word. Dawson and Onye both tied for the most snaps at DT. It was basically a 55/45 split between the 4. The ratio could change, but people saying Hinish started over Dawson aren’t saying anything of importance

I see your point, I hope we can ride the wave and get past A&M. I don't see any other team on our schedule having an OL anywhere close to Miami and A&M. Ideally a guy like Hinish should only be getting 12-15 snaps against elite competition. Hopefully by November we can start getting meaningful snaps from some of the younger DT's. I'd love to see Sevillano and Mukam getting 10-12 snaps each by end of year. Sevillano is that big body who can clog the lane. Mukam looks like hes built like a brick not sure why he isn't seeing the field.

 

[NDPhilly]

It took two drives to see that Hinish was getting absolutely mauled on early down runs. Definitely felt like he had less snaps in the second half.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I mean do you see who it has as DC as well??

Sanford was the OC. Denbrock was notably NOT the OC which led to departure for UC because he wanted to be one

Yup. That’s how I remember it b/c even at the time you wondered why it wasn’t Denbrock as OC. He left on good terms IIRC and was able to finally be an OC as you stated.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

October

I bet it’s November, but hope I’m wrong. I think October is being optimistic.

 

[arndtjc]

Couple days to stew on it and here's what I've got:

Bad gameplan on both sides of the ball, adjustments came from both coordinators but they waited too long and the hole was already dug.

For a team that has a secondary full of ballhawks, it sure was disappointing to see how soft the coverage was all night. If you're having issues with pass rush, how in the world are you not up and pressing their WRs and getting them off their route early? Moore and Grey were good, and other than Shuler being in perfect position to do literally anything on the spectacular catch for a TD, the safeties were non-factors

OL....woooooooffffffffffffff

Some bright spots;

CJ Carr is the truth. It sucks that Denbrock didn't trust him from the jump, because it was pretty obvious the kid is ready to run the full offense. That scramble to no look tudd to Gilbert was so sexy. He was so poised in the pocket in the second half, leading that TD drive to tie the game, the kid was completely unbothered. He is the REAL DEAL, and I'm glad he's on our team. Bright bright future ahead at the QB position

Felt like the LBs overall had a pretty good game, Sneed and Ausberry flashed a few times and KVA had himself a night despite limited snaps. That unit is only going to keep getting better over the year and should be a big strength

All in all, they played like shit and were still a play or two away from winning a top ten road matchup. I'm still not happy with the result, but it could have been much, much worse and in previous years, that team gets run off the field again. This team fought until the very bitter end and still almost pulled it off

If this team is built the way we thought they were, there is zero reason why they can't run the table and end up 11-1 and hosting in South Bend in December again

 

[arndtjc]

Oh and one more thing:

Was pretty gross that JD Price had that 45 yard drive and then Denbrock never went back to him. Very Rees and Porker esque, finding success in something and then completely abandoning it

 

[Dale]

Oh and one more thing:

Was pretty gross that JD Price had that 45 yard drive and then Denbrock never went back to him. Very Rees and Porker esque, finding success in something and then completely abandoning it

We did, then he fumbled. This was right before half so the next time we got the ball was down 14 with 7 mins left in the 3Q. 6 2H possessions, only 2 of them were drives (3 and out, INT, Raridon 3 play TD drive, last series). So really you’re talking only two series he didn’t play on.

Fields got benched for fumbling as well, it’s why Gilbert was in for the TD.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Starting is a meaningless word. Dawson and Onye both tied for the most snaps at DT. It was basically a 55/45 split between the 4. The ratio could change, but people saying Hinish started over Dawson aren’t saying anything of importance

That split should be closer to 65/35, and frankly, until Onye shows some consistency, Rubio should play over him too.

I don't want to take anything away from Onye, and maybe he goes out against A&M and shows the consistency, but he had way too many Jekyll/Hyde moments, where one play he looks awesome, and then the next play, he gets shoved into a locker.

Hinish might need to be strictly situational moving forward. He maybe a tough dude, but there's only so much attitude can overcome being 50-60 pounds lighter than your competition.

Might also be time to introduce Sean Sevillano to the line-up. Need more beef up front, because when Hinish was in the game, Miami ran at will on them.

 

[BeatSC]

I’m just busting chops bro. You have a unique athletic background and I wanted to type Bjorn

Didn’t bother me. I liked Bjorn. No worries.

 

[aparksat]

So..

Any of you feeling sketchy about the Aggie game now?

I think the game went pretty much how I thought it would. Cristobal went into his typical coach scared in the 2nd half and tried to lose. I guess he finally has enough talent to over come that now. Just hb dive after hb dive after hb dive, going back to oregon you see the same exact play with different offensive coordinators.. cave man, that's all I'm gonna say.

Hopefully we get the next game in South bend soon

In other news, usf vs florida is a game to watch on Saturday. Todd Orlando and alex gulash are some tier 1 coaches. Gators are feeling themselves for whatever reason, gulash ultra high tempo offense is gonna catch them off guard.

 

[stlnd01]

So..

Any of you feeling sketchy about the Aggie game now?

I think the game went pretty much how I thought it would. Cristobal went into his typical coach scared in the 2nd half and tried to lose. I guess he finally has enough talent to over come that now. Just hb dive after hb dive after hb dive, going back to oregon you see the same exact play with different offensive coordinators.. cave man, that's all I'm gonna say.

Hopefully we get the next game in South bend soon

In other news, usf vs florida is a game to watch on Saturday. Todd Orlando and alex gulash are some tier 1 coaches. Gators are feeling themselves for whatever reason, gulash ultra high tempo offense is gonna catch them off guard.

I mean, our OL has to play better. No two ways about it.
I'm quite certain A&M has front seven guys who can get after it. If they do, our offense can't function, but if we block them and it can, we've got tons of weapons and a QB who looks able to get it to them. Hopefully we run it more than we did on Sunday night, and then that opens up the downfield passing game. Defense, I'm not as worried about. More Dawson, less Hinish, more Young, less Burnham, more Davonte Smith, less Hobbs. But those are relatively modest adjustments. Miami probably has a better offense than A&M and we held them in check minus a couple of plays.
Really it boils down to how well we can move the ball, which comes back to our offensive line giving Carr & co. the time and space to do their thing

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

I’ve been shown absolutely nothing to make me fear this, but I worry we will pass downfield more (which is obviously the right thing to do) and CJ Carr will unfortunately throw a few picks, which maybe we overcome.

Just have a weird feeling. He looked great but he’s still very raw and we’re about to loosen to reins, which, again, we need to do.

Or maybe my bed is just wet.

 

[ulukinatme]

Oh and one more thing:

Was pretty gross that JD Price had that 45 yard drive and then Denbrock never went back to him. Very Rees and Porker esque, finding success in something and then completely abandoning it

I think you got that wrong. Tommy would often go back to something that was working well, however he had the other problem: going back to plays that did not work again and again. For instance, there were some games he kept trying and trying to run between the tackles (Like with Tyree) when it just wasn't there. I get that you want to keep a defense honest, and sometimes you need to let your linemen wear the defense down, but there were a few stinkers there when a play just wasn't there and we kept going back to it.

 

[SighWillingham]

I mean, our OL has to play better. No two ways about it.
I'm quite certain A&M has front seven guys who can get after it. If they do, our offense can't function, but if we block them and it can, we've got tons of weapons and a QB who looks able to get it to them. Hopefully we run it more than we did on Sunday night, and then that opens up the downfield passing game. Defense, I'm not as worried about. More Dawson, less Hinish, more Young, less Burnham, more Davonte Smith, less Hobbs. But those are relatively modest adjustments. Miami probably has a better offense than A&M and we held them in check minus a couple of plays.
Really it boils down to how well we can move the ball, which comes back to our offensive line giving Carr & co. the time and space to do their thing

Totally agree the OL needs to play better, but I’m also putting some of that on Denbrock’s playcalling. For a relative young OL that’s still gelling, it’s much easier to run block than pass block, so to get some momentum and tire out Miami’s DL, I wish they had run the (fucking) ball consistently. Besides the fact that it’s our greatest strength and it takes pressure off Carr in his first game.

Still so pissed at Denbrock how he seemed to have zero understanding of what was needed. Alas, fix and move forward.

 

[BrianWalsh]

Wat. Did we watch the same game?

ND ran man the vast majority of the time. Beck was very good and the routes they had #10 run (and everyone else, but #10 was the star) were predominantly man coverage beaters.

Turns out, the Miami OL is fantastic. Their strength against ND's weakness (DTs). Notre Dame would send blitzes, and they would get picked up. Clearly, Ash and Freeman decided not to send six and seven because if it gets picked up, Beck is going to make the defense pay.

Chris Ash and the defense are not why Notre Dame lost. But the lack of elite DT play is what is going to hold Notre Dame back against elite teams IMO. Miami exposed that fact for everyone to see. Not everyone has the OL that Miami has, but you can bet the farm that Texas A&M will be running A and B gap and doubling the DT and forcing the LBs to win the game. It's not the end of the world because ND has the DB talent to play more guys in the box.

Honest question: all of 10’s catches looked like ND was in zone: he would run crosser, pivot and go outside with nobody on his hip. If that was man coverage, we must have had the one-legged man covering him cause he was no where to be seen.

 

[spoonidentity]

Honest question: all of 10’s catches looked like ND was in zone: he would run crosser, pivot and go outside with nobody on his hip. If that was man coverage, we must have had the one-legged man covering him cause he was no where to be seen.

I know what you're saying but man coverage scheme doesn't mean the same thing as press coverage technique. One pertains to what the team is doing and the other pertains to how the individual defender.

It's easy to see when a player is tight technique on the line of scrimmage to jam. However, not all man coverage schemes require that. You can tell, like a QB does, with how the defense reacts with pre snap motion. Our defenders would trail guys across the field pre snap

Toney (#10) ran routes that were "man beaters" going in first then sharply cutting out. Our defenders chased him immediately after he made his breaks and before the ball was thrown. If it was a zone scheme, all of those efforts by Toney would have been wasted because the defenders were responsible for occupying a literal patch of space (zone) on the field. There likely would have been another defender moving into that space and our DB would have passed him off to the defender responsible for covering that area of the field. The WR action wouldn't have mattered like that right after the snap. Imagine snaps where a linebacker starts to drop back into that territory of the field - that would be an example of zone coverage.

I'm not a technique expert but those routes he ran were certainly against man to man schemes.

 

[Rocketman84]

yeah he looked bad

I'm sure most everybody will against a NFL DC with NFL talent all over the D. The PC didn't help in the least bit.

 

[Rocketman84]

I know what you're saying but man coverage scheme doesn't mean the same thing as press coverage technique. One pertains to what the team is doing and the other pertains to how the individual defender.

It's easy to see when a player is tight technique on the line of scrimmage to jam. However, not all man coverage schemes require that. You can tell, like a QB does, with how the defense reacts with pre snap motion. Our defenders would trail guys across the field pre snap

Toney (#10) ran routes that were "man beaters" going in first then sharply cutting out. Our defenders chased him immediately after he made his breaks and before the ball was thrown. If it was a zone scheme, all of those efforts by Toney would have been wasted because the defenders were responsible for occupying a literal patch of space (zone) on the field. There likely would have been another defender moving into that space and our DB would have passed him off to the defender responsible for covering that area of the field. The WR action wouldn't have mattered like that right after the snap. Imagine snaps where a linebacker starts to drop back into that territory of the field - that would be an example of zone coverage.

I'm not a technique expert but those routes he ran were certainly against man to man schemes.

Mostly and the alarming part is that we made no adjustments just kept letting the same 3-4 routes kick us in the ass.

 

[Rocketman84]

The line looks good there except for 1 guy. Does Knapp always drop back so far?

That's just what happens when Ahmad Moten is using you as a human training sled.

 

[pumpdog20]

Mostly and the alarming part is that we made no adjustments just kept letting the same 3-4 routes kick us in the ass.

The adjustment was putting Leonard on Toney. Which is why he went silent in the second half.

 

[PutuporShutup]

The adjustment was putting Leonard on Toney. Which is why he went silent in the second half.

Yep. Moore had a bad first half, but he and smith are the only corners ready right now capable of covering athletic and shifty wrs. They put Gray on toney first after hobbs got smoked and gray couldn't come close to staying with him. I wish they adjusted much faster to getting moore on him. It seemed pretty obvious in the first quarter the hype was real with toney.

Pretty clear Miami had a game plan to beat our man coverage on offense, and they had a game plan to attack our tackles with bull rushes. Pretty sure our game plan on both sides was to just be reactive to what Miami was doing vs attack their weaknesses or utilize ND strengths.

 

[NDFAN2008]

After watching more film I'm not sure who looked worse Wagner or Knapp their play is just not acceptable, if they don't figure it out quick both will be riding pine.

 

[jprue24]

After watching more film I'm not sure who looked worse Wagner or Knapp their play is just not acceptable, if they don't figure it out quick both will be riding pine.

If we're being honest... It might be time to start cross-training them for defensive tackle.

 

[NDFAN2008]

If we're being honest... It might be time to start cross-training them for defensive tackle.

Enough of the smart ass comments

 

[Rocketman84]

After watching more film I'm not sure who looked worse Wagner or Knapp their play is just not acceptable, if they don't figure it out quick both will be riding pine.

Knapp by far

 

[matman4593]

Honestly after watching more film, I almost noticed more poor guard play than I did tackles (missed that live). Just some clear and blatant missed assignments run blocking, though there were certainly good plays that helped balance it out. I almost understood why we gave up running the ball

 

[jprue24]

Enough of the smart ass comments

Lol, fuck you

 

[IAIrish]

Well, this was a shitty performance all the way around.

Coaching: I agreed before the game that Denbrock should call it to protect Carr, but had incorrectly aimed he'd do it by leaning on the running game. Woof. I had no problem with the first drive calls, but after that, Love needed to be featured.
It was clear Carr was counting defenders in the box and checking into pass, but it was mind boggling to watch them run the same damn bubble a dozen times. No adjustments or creativity... a slot fade? A skinny post?

After reading through virtually all the other posts, one thing I didn't see mentioned was the silent count/snap. It was evident Miami knew it for most of the game, particularly in the red zone. All of the plays down there were disasters and it's a miracle Carr threw 2 tds in spite of it.
Miami was in the backfield by the time love and price were getting the ball in the red zone and it wasn't a coincidence. Hard enough to block Bain, but when he knew the count it became nearly impossible with our average tackles.

I see people going back and forth on Ash and the defense, but the bottom line is they have up 27 with very little havoc caused. This against a freshman in Toney and a bunch of mercs who looked more in sync than our guys. It felt like we had no answers to questions Golden was solving by halftime last year.

Captains: It's hard to point to anything good the captains did on this game. A stunningly bad performance from the leaders of your team. I won't retread Hinish, Wagner and Scrauth, but wanted to low-light Bowen and Shuler. They both missed several tackles after being sound in they area last year.

Shuler's mis-play the Daniels td was mind boggling. The only explanation is he didn't see him. It needed to be a pick or pbu as the score to end the half gave the Canes an avalanche of momentum that became too big a hole after they scored outta the half.