Mass shooting in San Bernardino, CA

[woolybug25]

According to that graph I'd say Switzerland is considered a developed country and at 72.2% vs our 67.5%.

You're reading it incorrectly. Their percentage gun related homicides per total homicides is higher, but not gun homicides per capita. Meaning, more of their total homicides are committed with firearms, but their total homicides with firearms per capita is lower. Also... they are 3rd in gun ownership. So it's kind of a bad example to begin with.

 

[BobbyMac]

The same poster that referenced the shootout was talking about just how much safer we are now than we used to be. He stopped with that narrative as soon as he realized that the gunman had a Middle Eastern name.

Why did he or should he have stopped? The fact is America's murder rates are the lowest in our lifetime.

 

[woolybug25]

Why am I gonna argue about this when we can just ask him.


Hey yankeehater what was the reason the person you were talking to said that white christian males need to be profiled?

So you are admitting that you attacked me for being obtuse and reading his comments exactly how he wrote them and now you would like him to reiterate to fit your narrative?

and i'm being obtuse... smh...

 

[Irish YJ]

Yeah definitely. But that gets back to my earlier point. People will kill themselves but having to decide using something not as effective or quick makes that decision harder and the will to do so much greater. So I have been told anyway.

Seems like firearm suicides would be spur of the moment, while more passive means of suicide would be more planned. Likely the same with murder.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Why did he or should he have stopped? The fact is America's murder rates are the lowest in our lifetime.

That's absolutely correct. And the odds of accidentally shooting yourself are far greater than being in a shootout with a terrorist.

 

[pkt77242]

I'd think people would rather OD on something than blow a hole in themselves.... would be interesting to see some data on the means of suicide (non firearm) before and after the ban.

Kind of. Many people survive trying to OD. They have a tendency to call or text someone that they did it and that person usually gets them help (though some don't reach out or take things that act faster) but if you shoot yourself, there really isn't anything that can be done for you. Men in particular are more likely to use a gun. Women are more diverse (well at least in the US).
Suicide method statistics in the USA | Lost All Hope: The web's leading suicide resource


Just to compare here is the chart for the UK in the same year.
Suicide method statistics in the UK | Lost All Hope: The web's leading suicide resource

 

[Cackalacky]

Seems like firearm suicides would be spur of the moment, while more passive means of suicide would be more planned. Likely the same with murder.

IDK..... people with suicidal tendencies seem to be deliberate about the reasoning but waffle on the execution.

Top ten methods of suicide are gunshot, overdose, hanging, poisoning, monoxide inhalation, suffocation, exsanguination, drowning, jumping...

OTOH I would like to know more about premeditated murder rates and spontaneous ones. Or if people harbor the desire to do so and act impulsively when they have access to guns...

 

[GATTACA!]

So you are admitting that you attacked me for being obtuse and reading his comments exactly how he wrote them and now you would like him to reiterate to fit your narrative?

and i'm being obtuse... smh...

No what he said was clear if you are able to use context clues at a 3rd grade level. I just don't feel like arguing with you when I know you are smart enough to know exactly what yankee was saying, it just fits your argument better to act as if the CO shooting wasn't taken as a given.

Especially since you already did this same thing to me earlier in this thread when you tried to school me by bringing up the Colorado shooting, even though that's exactly what I was talking about in the post you quoted.

I agree both were terrorism. The problem is in the case of the Islamic terror a much much larger portion of the Muslim community agree with the actions of that attacker. Of course it's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of law abiding peaceful Muslims, especially in this country, but comparativly can you come up with ANOTHER mass shooting/bombing done in the name of Christianity? Attacks in the name of Allah are happening daily in the middle east.

Like the fundamentalist Christian who shot up the Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs last week?

 

[woolybug25]

No what he said was clear if you are able to use context clues at a 3rd grade level. I just don't feel like arguing with you when I know you are smart enough to know exactly what yankee was saying, it just fits your argument better to act as if the CO shooting wasn't taken as a given.

Especially since you already did this same thing to me earlier in this thread when you tried to school me by bringing up the Colorado shooting, even though that's exactly what I was talking about in the post you quoted.

How does my previous comment to you earlier in the day, pages behind, have anything to do with a completely different comment by a poster not referring to your comment at all? Are you really that self absorbed that you think any comment someone posts has a direct relation to any comment you made in the same day?

He never mentioned your post. Never mentioned CO. Never said that they spoke about anything other than racial profiling in a broad sense. You literally put words in his mouth and then acted like I was stupid for not inferring something that he never actually said.

My misreading of your previous post has no bearing on Yankee's comment whatsoever. Regardless, I could have used the Klu Klux Klan or the Army of God as relevant examples in it's place. So your entire manufactured argument is pretty moot.

 

[Irish YJ]

Kind of. Many people survive trying to OD. They have a tendency to call or text someone that they did it and that person usually gets them help (though some don't reach out or take things that act faster) but if you shoot yourself, there really isn't anything that can be done for you. Men in particular are more likely to use a gun. Women are more diverse (well at least in the US).
Suicide method statistics in the USA | Lost All Hope: The web's leading suicide resource





Just to compare here is the chart for the UK in the same year.
Suicide method statistics in the UK | Lost All Hope: The web's leading suicide resource

I think people who fail, want to fail for the most part. Read a bunch of stuff in college in I think psychology class that ODers are more likely to be one who are looking for help or attention. If they want to succeed however, they typically succeed.

If you use a gun, you don't want to fail, and it's certainly not a plea for help or attention.

IDK..... people with suicidal tendencies seem to be deliberate about the reasoning but waffle on the execution.

Top ten methods of suicide are gunshot, overdose, hanging, poisoning, monoxide inhalation, suffocation, examination, drowning, jumping...

OTOH I would like to know more about premeditated murder rates and spontaneous ones. Or if people harbor the desire to do so and act impulsively when they have access to guns...

If I was going to off myself, ODing seems the most attractive means. Go to sleep, goodbye... I guess if I was impulsive and without any hope, a gun would do. Good lord it's depressing thinking about this stuff... I do agree that I think impulsive murders and suicides would drop without easy access to guns.

I think guns make it easy for impulsive people. Pre-mediated, and thoughtful murderers I think will commit murder regardless.

So Question to everyone...
if you are going to start banning things that cause death,,,, wouldn't you ban alcohol before guns? Thinking I read at some point there was like 90,000 alcohol related depths per year while gun related deaths were less than half?? What am I missing here.

 

[Cackalacky]

I think people who fail, want to fail for the most part. Read a bunch of stuff in college in I think psychology class that ODers are more likely to be one who are looking for help or attention. If they want to succeed however, they typically succeed.

If you use a gun, you don't want to fail, and it's certainly not a plea for help or attention.




If I was going to off myself, ODing seems the most attractive means. Go to sleep, goodbye... I guess if I was impulsive and without any hope, a gun would do. Good lord it's depressing thinking about this stuff... I do agree that I think impulsive murders and suicides would drop without easy access to guns.

I think guns make it easy for impulsive people. Pre-mediated, and thoughtful murderers I think will commit murder regardless.

So Question to everyone...
if you are going to start banning things that cause death,,,, wouldn't you ban alcohol before guns? Thinking I read at some point there was like 90,000 alcohol related depths per year while gun related deaths were less than half?? What am I missing here.

Agree. I thought that is what the data from the Australia link above showed.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So Question to everyone...
if you are going to start banning things that cause death,,,, wouldn't you ban alcohol before guns? Thinking I read at some point there was like 90,000 alcohol related depths per year while gun related deaths were less than half?? What am I missing here.

Again, no one is arguing that we prohibit all gun ownership.

And we do regulate the hell out of alcohol.

 

[drayer54]

But you know why terrorists can get guns here right? The NRA hand writes policy and because every Republican and most Democrats are beholden to the NRA and sensible legislation just is not possible with theses corrupt oligarchs dismissing the will of 90% of the American population on simple back ground checks and registered sales.

So please don't tell me to read what I write. I know very well what I wrote and I have several friends and family that are no longer her to always remind me how and why they died and whether or not it could have been prevented.

As an NRA member, I must have missed the meetings where we wrote the laws and decided to have Islamic terrorism in California. I'm not sure what the NRA wrote or how they influenced all of this madness, but the left and you (One in the same?) sure must have caught wind of it.

They do fight unconstitutional Gun laws in court, because they....should.

If it were truly 90%, you wouldn't have an issue....

Ohh and as for the terrorist Gun bill, do you know what else was in that bill?

I'll give you a hint, the NRA didn't write it.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Again, no one is arguing that we prohibit all gun ownership.

And we do regulate the hell out of alcohol.

And yet on any given Friday night a mass of 16 year olds can throw a house party with alcohol everywhere. I get your point, and you know I agree with you on most of it, but it doesn't change the fact that it will not stop the violence. People gonna kill people... be it guns, bombs, knifes, dinner forks, or rocks. Making it harder to kill someone by limiting their weapons of choice may be a start, but I sure as hell ain't giving up my dinner fork.

 

[GATTACA!]

How does my previous comment to you earlier in the day, pages behind, have anything to do with a completely different comment by a poster not referring to your comment at all? Are you really that self absorbed that you think any comment someone posts has a direct relation to any comment you made in the same day?

He never mentioned your post. Never mentioned CO. Never said that they spoke about anything other than racial profiling in a broad sense. You literally put words in his mouth and then acted like I was stupid for not inferring something that he never actually said.

My misreading of your previous post has no bearing on Yankee's comment whatsoever. Regardless, I could have used the Klu Klux Klan or the Army of God as relevant examples in it's place. So your entire manufactured argument is pretty moot.

How did I relate what he was saying to what i had said? My point was that in both cases me and yankee were talking about the fact that you can't come up with another recent example of a mass shooting/bombing carried out by white christian males. Both of our comments clearly were working under the assumption that the conversation was based on the idea that people were calling the CO shooting an act of Christian terrorism. In both cases you jumped in and tried to bring up the CO shooting, even though it was completely irrelevant because that's what we were already talking about.

I wasn't saying his comments had anything to do with mine. I was saying that YOU replied to both of us in the same fashion trying to bring up something that we were already discussing.

Also is there some string of KKK shootings going on that i'm not aware of? They are a hate group and I doubt you would get any pushback from Christians if the idea of profiling KKK members was proposed, but have they actually carried out any acts of terrorism in the last three decades?

 

[yankeehater]

Why am I gonna argue about this when we can just ask him.


Hey yankeehater what was the reason the person you were talking to said that white christian males need to be profiled?

Sorry...this board was giving me a headache.

His belief is that most of these mass shooting were committed by "right wing wackos" due to their heavy Christian beliefs. I believe his statement to be incorrect and offensive so I asked for examples.

I think the mental illness issue comes into play in a lot of these killings yet is not nearly discussed enough.

 

[pkt77242]

As an NRA member, I must have missed the meetings where we wrote the laws and decided to have Islamic terrorism in California. I'm not sure what the NRA wrote or how they influenced all of this madness, but the left and you (One in the same?) sure must have caught wind of it.

They do fight unconstitutional Gun laws in court, because they....should.

If it were truly 90%, you wouldn't have an issue....

Ohh and as for the terrorist Gun bill, do you know what else was in that bill?

I'll give you a hint, the NRA didn't write it.

LOL. About 90% of people want universal background checks. NRA is against it so it will not happen (shockingly they give lots of money to politicians).

Should Congress Support Universal Background Checks for Gun Purchases?

The NRA did not cause what happened in California. They are however responsible for buying politicians and are the reason that we can't pass legislation that 90% of the people want.

 

[woolybug25]

How did I relate what he was saying to what i had said? My point was that in both cases me and yankee were talking about the fact that you can't come up with another recent example of a mass shooting/bombing carried out by white christian males. Both of our comments clearly were working under the assumption that the conversation was based on the idea that people were calling the CO shooting an act of Christian terrorism. In both cases you jumped in and tried to bring up the CO shooting, even though it was completely irrelevant because that's what we were already talking about.

No... your comment was working on that assumption. No where... I repeat... no where... did Yankee refer, imply or note anything about CO. In fact, he specifically said "name ANY" in his comment. You are the one that is inferring what he was thinking, there is literally nothing in his comment that implies it.

I wasn't saying his comments had anything to do with mine. I was saying that YOU replied to both of us in the same fashion trying to bring up something that we were already discussing.

Your post was far behind his and we were already passed it up in conversation. Your previous comment had zero bearing on what yankee said and i'm not the person that brought your previous comment into the conversation, you did. If you weren't implying that it was relevant to his comment, then what exactly is your point?

Also is there some string of KKK shootings going on that i'm not aware of? They are a hate group and I doubt you would get any pushback from Christians if the idea of profiling KKK members was proposed, but have they actually carried out any acts of terrorism in the last three decades?

For real? Go google yourself, man. Sheesh.

 

[woolybug25]

Sorry...this board was given me a headache.

His belief is that most of these mass shooting were committed by "right wing wackos" due to their heavy Christian beliefs. I believe his statment to be incorrect and offensive so I asked for examples.

I think the mental illness issue comes into play in a lot of these killings yet is not nearly discussed enough.

So Gattaca is wrong then. Cool.

Totally agree on the mental illness side.

 

[yankeehater]

Clearly the reason they were discussing the topic at all was because of the events in CO. So he was asking previous to that event. But you already knew that, you're just being purposefully obtuse.

No....we were discussing the San Berdu killings! I then mentioned how the neighbor speaking with KABC 7 in LA told them about the neighbor being suspicious of the events going on in recent weeks at the home in Redlands. They did not call the police because they did not want to profile. That is when he made his comments.

In this day and age, I would error on the side of caution regardless of race or skin color.

 

[woolybug25]

Well that backfired on you, Gattaca... lolz

 

[pkt77242]

Sorry...this board was giving me a headache.

His belief is that most of these mass shooting were committed by "right wing wackos" due to their heavy Christian beliefs. I believe his statment to be incorrect and offensive so I asked for examples.

I think the mental illness issue comes into play in a lot of these killings yet is not nearly discussed enough.

I agree. The thing is that it is going to cost a lot (and I mean a lot) of money to work on that and I don't see Congress spending money on it.

 

[Irish YJ]

Again, no one is arguing that we prohibit all gun ownership.

And we do regulate the hell out of alcohol.

Actually some on this board would like to ban guns entirely.
So we regulate the hell out of alcohol yet there are still twice as many alcohol related deaths as guns.
I just find it odd that nobody is clamoring for more regulation or banning of a substance that claims double the lives.

 

[Cackalacky]

As an NRA member, I must have missed the meetings where we wrote the laws and decided to have Islamic terrorism in California. I'm not sure what the NRA wrote or how they influenced all of this madness, but the left and you (One in the same?) sure must have caught wind of it.

They do fight unconstitutional Gun laws in court, because they....should.

If it were truly 90%, you wouldn't have an issue....

Ohh and as for the terrorist Gun bill, do you know what else was in that bill?

I'll give you a hint, the NRA didn't write it.

I am honestly flummoxed by this post. You should do a little more research on what the leadership of your organization is actually up to. But pkt added most of what I would have said anyway.

 

[yankeehater]

Actually some on this board would like to ban guns entirely.
So we regulate the hell out of alcohol yet there are still twice as many alcohol related deaths as guns.
I just find it odd that nobody is clamoring for more regulation or banning of a substance that claims double the lives.

According to who?

You also have to remember the government taxes the hell out of alcohol so they wouldn't want to take away all of that revenue they love to spend.

 

[GoIrish41]

How did I relate what he was saying to what i had said? My point was that in both cases me and yankee were talking about the fact that you can't come up with another recent example of a mass shooting/bombing carried out by white christian males. Both of our comments clearly were working under the assumption that the conversation was based on the idea that people were calling the CO shooting an act of Christian terrorism. In both cases you jumped in and tried to bring up the CO shooting, even though it was completely irrelevant because that's what we were already talking about.

I wasn't saying his comments had anything to do with mine. I was saying that YOU replied to both of us in the same fashion trying to bring up something that we were already discussing.

Also is there some string of KKK shootings going on that i'm not aware of? They are a hate group and I doubt you would get any pushback from Christians if the idea of profiling KKK members was proposed, but have they actually carried out any acts of terrorism in the last three decades?

Wasn't that kid who shot up the church in South Carolina in the Klan?

 

[Irish YJ]

According to who?

You also have to remember the government taxes the hell out of alcohol so they wouldn't want to take away all of that revenue they love to spend.

Nearly 88,0009 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women10) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making it the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.9

Alcohol Facts and Statistics | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)

11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

 

[pkt77242]

Actually some on this board would like to ban guns entirely.
So we regulate the hell out of alcohol yet there are still twice as many alcohol related deaths as guns.
I just find it odd that nobody is clamoring for more regulation or banning of a substance that claims double the lives.

I am not for banning alcohol but I am for greatly increasing the punishment for driving drunk. The death that are alcohol related include things such as cirrhosis of the liver, and other health issues due to it. Now the 10,000 deaths do to drunk driving is different. We have worked to lower those deaths by raising the drinking age, increasing punishments (depending on where you are), etc. Now there could be an argument that we haven't gone far enough with that but the 80K or so is slightly misleading).

 

[Cackalacky]

Wasn't that kid who shot up the church in South Carolina in the Klan?

No not in the klan but definitely a white supremacist. Photos of him had the Rohodesian and South African flags on it and his manifesto was clearly influenced by white supremacist websites and literature.

 

[GATTACA!]

Your post was far behind his and we were already passed it up in conversation. Your previous comment had zero bearing on what yankee said and i'm not the person that brought your previous comment into the conversation, you did. If you weren't implying that it was relevant to his comment, then what exactly is your point?

I made a comment talking about the CO shooting, you replied by trying to inform me of the CO shooting. Yankee made a comment (I thought) that implied he was talking about the CO shooting, you replied trying to inform him of the CO shooting. My point wasn't that his comment had anything to do with mine, my point was that I knew you were being obtuse bc you pulled the same thing with me earlier.

I never said Yankees had anything to do with mine.

So Gattaca is wrong then. Cool.

Totally agree on the mental illness side.

My bad I misinterpreted what Yankee had said.