Marcus Freeman Revisited

[calvegas04]

 

[notredomer23]

However unlikely it is Freeman works out here, I’m very grateful that this bum isn’t our coach

 

[calvegas04]

However unlikely it is Freeman works out here, I’m very grateful that this bum isn’t our coach

At least he is trying to fix what isn't working

 

[jprue24]

If you're screaming at a 19 year old and you're making $5M a year with a huge buyout you'll receive for being mediocre, maybe check yourself a bit.

Do you, though? Kind of depends, no?

 

[GATTACA!]

At least he is trying to fix what isn't working

If there are throws Jackson Arnold can't complete why don't they just not call those plays?

 

[Irishokie]

At least he is trying to fix what isn't working

Local radio puts some of the blame on OC Seth Littrell also.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

If there are throws Jackson Arnold can't complete why don't they just not call those plays?

The issue with arnold isnt whether he can or cant make throws. Its that he turns the ball over….a lot.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Do you, though? Kind of depends, no?

I can tell you for certain that kids today do not respond to how we were coached in the 80s and 90s. They shut down or they just fucking quit. Perhaps that's a separate issue entirely, and we've had this discussion at various points in various threads, but we're ultimately not saving lives or in the military here. It's just sports. There are more effective routes to teaching and coaching. Yes, it worked for Saban, but consider that most things worked for Saban and didn't work for just about everyone else.

We all have our moments. When your moments are frequent, maybe that works and maybe it doesn't, but at some point you get tuned out by the majority of the people in the room and if the screaming was ever effective it ceases to be. Freeman had a moment with Shuler. Hopefully it was effective.

 

[NDRock]

I can tell you for certain that kids today do not respond to how we were coached in the 80s and 90s. They shut down or they just fucking quit. Perhaps that's a separate issue entirely, and we've had this discussion at various points in various threads, but we're ultimately not saving lives or in the military here. It's just sports. There are more effective routes to teaching and coaching. Yes, it worked for Saban, but consider that most things worked for Saban and didn't work for just about everyone else.

We all have our moments. When your moments are frequent, maybe that works and maybe it doesn't, but at some point you get tuned out by the majority of the people in the room and if the screaming was ever effective it ceases to be. Freeman had a moment with Shuler. Hopefully it was effective.

I don’t know. Grew up in the 80’ and 90’s. Lots of kids quit because they didn’t like getting yelled at. My senior year, our center quit the basketball team because he got yelled at. Kids quit teams or didn’t come back all the time. Difference today is people have more options and just transfer.

I also don’t see that much difference today. My son plays high school football now. His coaches yell all the time. I do the chains for the home games and see all the visiting staffs. They all yell, they’re all nuts.

The transfer portal at the high school level is also a real thing. It’s even crazier, IMO. Had a quarterback transfer after week 1. Played on a Friday, on Monday he transferred and was practicing for the rival school and started that week. No idea how his parents pulled that off.

 

[TheProspector]

No offense taken. Hate to be critical of freeman but I think it’s warranted. The dei and act stuff on here is embarrassing. However, he inherited a top tier program. He has lost in embarrassing fashion for three years now and some of his comments just don’t instill confidence going forward

No offense taken. Hate to be critical of freeman but I think it’s warranted. The dei and act stuff on here is embarrassing. However, he inherited a top tier program. He has lost in embarrassing fashion for three years now and some of his comments just don’t instill confidence going forward

Let’s be real, he certainly inherited a good program, but he was also left Tyler Buchner and Drew Pyne at quarterback and an embarrassing WR room that had Lorenzo Styles as its #1 wideout. This wasn’t a loaded roster in 2022 and one could argue the talent Weis left Kelly was at least on par with what Bk left Freeman.

 

[SoIll]

I can tell you for certain that kids today do not respond to how we were coached in the 80s and 90s. They shut down or they just fucking quit. Perhaps that's a separate issue entirely, and we've had this discussion at various points in various threads, but we're ultimately not saving lives or in the military here. It's just sports. There are more effective routes to teaching and coaching. Yes, it worked for Saban, but consider that most things worked for Saban and didn't work for just about everyone else.

We all have our moments. When your moments are frequent, maybe that works and maybe it doesn't, but at some point you get tuned out by the majority of the people in the room and if the screaming was ever effective it ceases to be. Freeman had a moment with Shuler. Hopefully it was effective.

Sounds like you'd love playing for "Coach" Tim Walz!

 

[NDRock]

Let’s be real, he certainly inherited a good program, but he was also left Tyler Buchner and Drew Pyne at quarterback and an embarrassing WR room that had Lorenzo Styles as its #1 wideout. This wasn’t a loaded roster in 2022 and one could argue the talent Weis left Kelly was at least on par with what Bk left Freeman.

Maybe but by year 3 Kelly had ND at 12-0. It’s also easier now with the portal to fill any holes on your roster.

 

[Irish2155]

No idea how his parents pulled that off.

Just “change your address”. Worked for me.

 

[ThePiombino]

Maybe but by year 3 Kelly had ND at 12-0. It’s also easier now with the portal to fill any holes on your roster.

Sometimes the portal gives you Riley Leonard tho

 

[NDRock]

Just “change your address”. Worked for me.

Yeah, lying is always an option. Which they did. 3rd school in 4 years. Kid got hurt the next game is done for the year/career.

 

[TheProspector]

Maybe but by year 3 Kelly had ND at 12-0. It’s also easier now with the portal to fill any holes on your roster.

As good as BK was in 2012, his 2011 coaching job was (so far) worse than anything Freeman has done. Hard to believe the talent on that team lost 5 games. Not to mention BK almost had the team mutiny after the USC loss by saying to the media to wait until he got “his guys” in the program and that you could tell his guys from the Weis guys. Keep in mind Wei’s’ guys included Manti, Harrison Smith, Zach Martin, Chris Watt, Riddick, Eifert, etc.

This year’s team could spiral though starting with a loss at Louisville this week.

 

[NDRock]

As good as BK was in 2012, his 2011 coaching job was (so far) worse than anything Freeman has done. Hard to believe the talent on that team lost 5 games. Not to mention BK almost had the team mutiny after the USC loss by saying to the media to wait until he got “his guys” in the program and that you could tell his guys from the Weis guys. Keep in mind Wei’s’ guys included Manti, Harrison Smith, Zach Martin, Chris Watt, Riddick, Eifert, etc.

This year’s team could spiral though starting with a loss at Louisville this week.

Yeah, I just don't agree. Kelly took over a losing program that had just fired its last 3 coaches and won 57% of its games during that time. He was far from perfect but he built a winning culture at ND while winning 74% of his games. That doesn't happen overnight. His schedule in 2011 was much harder than what Freeman has dealt with. The USF game was obviously a debacle but the other 3 regular season games were against teams that finished #6, #7, and #9.

I couldn't give a shit about Kelly and want Freeman to succeed but so far he's shown he's not as good as Kelly, IMO. That may change as he gets more experience but he was given a much better program than Kelly inherited.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I couldn't give a shit about Kelly and want Freeman to succeed but so far he's shown he's not as good as Kelly, IMO. That may change as he gets more experience but he was given a much better program than Kelly inherited.

Give me Freeman's big game preparation combined with BK's ability to beat the opponents ND should beat = the perfect HC between the two, as far as winning games in concerned.

We all want Freeman to succeed. He's a great ambasador for the program, seems like the players love him, he's easy to like. It's not easy to swallow losing the types of games he has, though. Many, if not all of us said playoff or bust in 2024. Too much has been aligned for ND to make a run this szn to fall short of that goal. If not, his seat will be scorching hot.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Freeman is 22-9. For his first 31 games at ND, Kelly was 21-10.

The major difference in context of discussing the two is that Brian Kelly had been a head coach prior to his first 31 games at ND significantly longer than Freeman was a head coach, which was obviously zero games. Even for all of his experience, Kelly found out quick that ND is not GVSU or Cincinnati. It took a disaster 2016 for him to finally self audit himself and the program, ditch his Rolodex and go out to hire assistants from off of his own tree. He deserves credit for that.

Kelly took over for Weis when there was no Portal, no NIL, etc. Freeman got here with more infrastructure, yes, but he also took over the program during one of the most tumultuous shifts and realignment the sport has ever seen. I just don't see the point is comparing the two. I think there are certain attributes that Kelly had at ND that I wish Freeman had now, but I also see Freeman as a breath of fresh air in many respects to how things were with Kelly when he left.

The biggest thing I find to still be lacking are a balls out QB1 and receivers that can make big plays in order to change games. That's missing.

 

[HouseofPain]

Give me Freeman's big game preparation combined with BK's ability to beat the opponents ND should beat = the perfect HC between the two, as far as winning games in concerned.

We all want Freeman to succeed. He's a great ambasador for the program, seems like the players love him, he's easy to like. It's not easy to swallow losing the types of games he has, though. Many, if not all of us said playoff or bust in 2024. Too much has been aligned for ND to make a run this szn to fall short of that goal. If not, his seat will be scorching hot.

I like MF too as a ND representative. Not so much as a coach. I havent seen anything from him that indicates he is a good coach or has more "it" rather than being a glorified cheerleader. The two back to back defensive screw up on the goalline vs OSU last year really put a lot of question to his competence and then the flat out crap show with RL this year when you have two far superior passers sitting the bench or holding a clipboard tells me this guy isnt the guy to take ND to the next level. Personnel wise, we should be there IF we had a good coach. And what is even more headscratching is that ND has two elite coaches in the DC and OC. So it has to be MF calling the shots here.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Give me Freeman's big game preparation combined with BK's ability to beat the opponents ND should beat = the perfect HC between the two, as far as winning games in concerned.

We all want Freeman to succeed. He's a great ambasador for the program, seems like the players love him, he's easy to like. It's not easy to swallow losing the types of games he has, though. Many, if not all of us said playoff or bust in 2024. Too much has been aligned for ND to make a run this szn to fall short of that goal. If not, his seat will be scorching hot.

I think most of us want him to succeed. There is clearly a minority, on this board and elsewhere, who have other ideas. Which is fine, but frankly kind of fucked up.

I was never a huge Brian Kelly fan, but as long as he was at ND, I wanted ND to win games. I had come to the point that if Kelly couldn't win a Natty at ND, I wasn't really sure of anyone who could. I have to believe that Freeman is the guy until he proves otherwise.

They lost to NIU, then have turned around and won the last two games. At some point we have to move the fuck on and just keep going week to week.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I think most of us want him to succeed. There is clearly a minority, on this board and elsewhere, who have other ideas. Which is fine, but frankly kind of fucked up.

I was never a huge Brian Kelly fan, but as long as he was at ND, I wanted ND to win games. I had come to the point that if Kelly couldn't win a Natty at ND, I wasn't really sure of anyone who could. I have to believe that Freeman is the guy until he proves otherwise.

They lost to NIU, then have turned around and won the last two games. At some point we have to move the fuck on and just keep going week to week.

*most* is fair. I think it's a high majority but you're right, there were some pretty appalling posts this past weekend.

Agreed on BK. He came close, couldn't get over the hump. I would personally be quicker to move on past NIU if there wasn't already a pattern of those kind of defeats in his short time here. Unfortunately, it's harder for a wound to heal once it's been reopened. But, as you stated, football is week to week, and a big one coming up Saturday. If they beat L'Ville, I think the season trajectory is promising, once again.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I like MF too as a ND representative. Not so much as a coach. I havent seen anything from him that indicates he is a good coach or has more "it" rather than being a glorified cheerleader. The two back to back defensive screw up on the goalline vs OSU last year really put a lot of question to his competence and then the flat out crap show with RL this year when you have two far superior passers sitting the bench or holding a clipboard tells me this guy isnt the guy to take ND to the next level. Personnel wise, we should be there IF we had a good coach. And what is even more headscratching is that ND has two elite coaches in the DC and OC. So it has to be MF calling the shots here.

I think he still has some things to learn but give me the coach that was on the sidelines against aTm in College Station any damn day of the week, from the moment he set foot in that tunnel to the moment he left it.

Why he hasn't been able to find that consistency is the puzzling part, particularly at home in ND Stadium. And whether or not he can finally find that consistency will ultimately define his legacy here.

 

[TheProspector]

Yeah, I just don't agree. Kelly took over a losing program that had just fired its last 3 coaches and won 57% of its games during that time. He was far from perfect but he built a winning culture at ND while winning 74% of his games. That doesn't happen overnight. His schedule in 2011 was much harder than what Freeman has dealt with. The USF game was obviously a debacle but the other 3 regular season games were against teams that finished #6, #7, and #9.

I couldn't give a shit about Kelly and want Freeman to succeed but so far he's shown he's not as good as Kelly, IMO. That may change as he gets more experience but he was given a much better program than Kelly inherited.

the 2011 schedule was not that hard. Michigan with Armpunt Denard Robinson and coached by Brady Hoke was a paper tiger. The 2011 UM loss giving up a TD with like 30 seconds left was as bad as OSU last year. It was a two game schedule against USC and Stanford.

And the program BK took over may have only had a 60% win percentage but Weis left the cupboards loaded with NFL talent. And even with all of that being said, it took BK 8 years to consistently win while almost imploding many times along the way.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Although severely flawed at certain positions, the team Freeman took over was miles better than the one Kelly inherited.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Although severely flawed at certain positions, the team Freeman took over was miles better than the one Kelly inherited.

Freeman took over a rebuilt program that Kelly rebuilt multiple times.

 

[NDohio]

Freeman is 22-9. For his first 31 games at ND, Kelly was 21-10.

The major difference in context of discussing the two is that Brian Kelly had been a head coach prior to his first 31 games at ND significantly longer than Freeman was a head coach, which was obviously zero games. Even for all of his experience, Kelly found out quick that ND is not GVSU or Cincinnati. It took a disaster 2016 for him to finally self audit himself and the program, ditch his Rolodex and go out to hire assistants from off of his own tree. He deserves credit for that.

Kelly took over for Weis when there was no Portal, no NIU, etc. Freeman got here with more infrastructure, yes, but he also took over the program during one of the most tumultuous shifts and realignment the sport has ever seen. I just don't see the point is comparing the two. I think there are certain attributes that Kelly had at ND that I wish Freeman had now, but I also see Freeman as a breath of fresh air in many respects to how things were with Kelly when he left.

The biggest thing I find to still be lacking are a balls out QB1 and receivers that can make big plays in order to change games. That's missing.

Freudian slip? - LOL

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Freudian slip? - LOL

I fucking hope not.

 

[jprue24]

I can tell you for certain that kids today do not respond to how we were coached in the 80s and 90s. They shut down or they just fucking quit. Perhaps that's a separate issue entirely, and we've had this discussion at various points in various threads, but we're ultimately not saving lives or in the military here. It's just sports. There are more effective routes to teaching and coaching. Yes, it worked for Saban, but consider that most things worked for Saban and didn't work for just about everyone else.

We all have our moments. When your moments are frequent, maybe that works and maybe it doesn't, but at some point you get tuned out by the majority of the people in the room and if the screaming was ever effective it ceases to be. Freeman had a moment with Shuler. Hopefully it was effective.

My only point is that the guy making 5 million to run an aspiring championship football program does not necessarily have to check himself for yelling at a player who made a impactful mental error. Shuler's screw up kept a drive alive and is a standing team rule.
I also believe there are times where yelling is a fine and an appropriate choice for a football coach to make about something that happened in a football game. I think coach boom is exactly where he should be, but there is still nuance.

 

[Irish2155]

Yeah, lying is always an option. Which they did. 3rd school in 4 years. Kid got hurt the next game is done for the year/career.

It’s been a long time since my day but I’d assume that waiver still needs IHSAA approval.

Edit: you probably don’t live in IN which would not apply at all.