Manning V Al Jazeera

[IrishLax]

There's nothing factless about the Peyton part of the documentary. His wife was shipped HGH.

Full stop.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH PEYTON MANNING?

 

[irishfan]

Full stop.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH PEYTON MANNING?

So, was the documentary "factless" regarding Peyton or not?

Well, considering he is a professional athlete who was rehabbing from a potentially career-ending injury when the HGH was allegedly sent to his wife....it certainly makes one suspicious.

This was also the same excuse that Roger Clemens used. Again, suspicious.

It might mean nothing. She might have been taking the HGH herself (although it almost assuredly was not legally prescribed--not that means anything but again warrants suspicion). But IMO it certainly doesn't mean we should just take Peyton's word for it that he wasn't taking his wife's HGH.

I really do not get why you think one of the greatest NFL players ever getting HGH shipped to his wife is not potentially suspicious. But we're clearly going to have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm not going to take the bait. Let's keep this about Manning's cheating.

As a fan of the game, I'm really disappointed and liken this to the Bonds situation. Manning was naturally one of the best of his era. He didn't need to cheat. Some guys just let their egos get the best of them and can't help themselves.

I was actually being serious. No bait. No further discussion. I was really just looking for a yes or no answer.

Dude, he's obviously trolling. I can't believe you're engaging.

Unfortunately.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Full stop.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH PEYTON MANNING?

This is an absurd take. I will bet my house that Peyton Manning's wife was not taking HGH. To keep this charade going like you believe that the HGH was shipped to his wife for her use is weird and dishonest.

 

[IrishLax]

So, was the documentary "factless" regarding Peyton or not?

My entire point has already been explained ad nauseam, and even discreetly summarized in 4 bullet points. If I have to explain it again, did you even read what I wrote?

What we are talking about is Peyton Manning taking HGH, and relative to Peyton Manning taking HGH there are literally no facts. Literally none.

Well, considering he is a professional athlete who was rehabbing from a potentially career-ending injury when the HGH was allegedly sent to his wife....it certainly makes one suspicious.

See point 1 and point 3.

This was also the same excuse that Roger Clemens used. Again, suspicious.

Couldn't be further from the truth. You had actual evidence presented against Clemens. See point 2.

It might mean nothing. She might have been taking the HGH herself (although it almost assuredly was not legally prescribed--not that means anything but again warrants suspicion). But IMO it certainly doesn't mean we should just take Peyton's word for it that he wasn't taking his wife's HGH.

It's not that you "should" take Peyton's word for it, it's that there is literally no other reasonable and fair option. Unless there is other evidence that comes to light, doing anything else would be obviously unfair to any impartial party. See point 3.

I really do not get why you think one of the greatest NFL players ever getting HGH shipped to his wife is not potentially suspicious. But we're clearly going to have to agree to disagree on that.

Suspicion is a subjective feeling. I can't control how you feel, and I don't think anyone... not Peyton Manning, not his wife, not the doctor... owes you or anyone else an explanation.

That changes once there is any actual hard evidence that Manning may have used the HGH. To use the Clemens example you brought up, in that case you had hard evidence and on-record testimony from the source with the hard evidence. The two situations are obviously nothing alike.

 

[IrishLax]

This is an absurd take. I will bet my house that Peyton Manning's wife was not taking HGH. To keep this charade going like you believe that the HGH was shipped to his wife for her use is weird and dishonest.

This is comical. On what grounds? See point 1, and point 3. Literally none of my bullet points are logically assailable. Just because you personally choose to reject the notion that she could have been taking HGH is completely worthless.

Honestly, you all are becoming a joke on this topic. I don't want to be a total asshole here, but the fact that you can't look in the mirror and realize the common thread between the only people taking your line of argument in this thread is rich.

 

[irishfan]

^If I'm being intentionally dense, then you're being intentionally naive for thinking a HOF athlete just so happened to have HGH illegally prescribed to his wife while he was going through a potentially career-ending surgery. I don't care if he did it. I acknowledge it will be impossible to prove it. It doesn't mean that everyone should just take his word that he wasn't taking his wife's HGH.

 

[ND NYC]

been paying zero attention to this "story" but see there is lots of debate here from whom I deem credible posters, so my question is:

does this thing have any legs?
can someone give cliff notes of where the "story" is?
is it getting traction in any way, have any credulity, or fading away (as I thought it had already)?

 

[IrishLax]

^If I'm being intentionally dense, then you're being intentionally naive for thinking a HOF athlete just so happened to have HGH illegally prescribed to his wife while he was going through a potentially career-ending surgery. I don't care if he did it. I acknowledge it will be impossible to prove it. It doesn't mean that everyone should just take his word that he wasn't taking his wife's HGH.

Giselle probably gets birth control each month. Birth control can be used as a masking agent for PEDs. Should we just take Tom Brady's word for it that he is not taking his wife's birth control as a masking agent for his PEDs? Remember, his wife had birth control when he was recovering from injury...

What this boils down to is that you all feel comfortable making a value judgment on the plausibility that his wife was using the HGH. You all find that implausible, so you conclude Peyton must have been using it if she wasn't.

I don't think that is fair, because I think given what we know about the potential uses of HGH, it's completely plausible that she was using it. And given that it was plausible that she was using to help with infertility, I think it's in really bad taste that a select minority of people are demanding to know more about why she was prescribed the HGH and how she used it. That seems like a gross invasion of legally protected privacy when it comes to medical conditions and history.

 

[IrishLax]

been paying zero attention to this "story" but see there is lots of debate here from whom I deem credible posters, so my question is:

does this thing have any legs?
can someone give cliff notes of where the "story" is?
is it getting traction in any way, have any credulity, or fading away (as I thought it had already)?

1. Ashley Manning was shipped HGH, possibly illegally.
2. If you don't believe she could have been using the HGH, then some people conclude Peyton must have been using it.

The end.

 

[Rhode Irish]

This is comical. On what grounds? See point 1, and point 3. Literally none of my bullet points are logically assailable. Just because you personally choose to reject the notion that she could have been taking HGH is completely worthless.

Honestly, you all are becoming a joke on this topic. I don't want to be a total asshole here, but the fact that you can't look in the mirror and realize the common thread between the only people taking your line of argument in this thread is rich.

If you believe that an athlete who was facing a career ending injury just so happened to be married to someone who is part of an infinitesimal percentage of the population who just so happened to require HGH for valid medical reasons at that exact point in time then you are so credulous of a person as to be a danger to yourself as exceptionally susceptible to being taken advantage of. Especially when the source of that HGH was not a doctor that a regular woman might otherwise see, but a clinic with ties to someone whose career is getting elicit PEDs to athletes. You're getting upset and lobbing some insults my way, but your underlying assumption here (that Peyton Manning's wife was the end user of HGH sent in her name) is not even in the realm of remote plausibility.

 

[Irish Insanity]

been paying zero attention to this "story" but see there is lots of debate here from whom I deem credible posters, so my question is:

does this thing have any legs?
can someone give cliff notes of where the "story" is?
is it getting traction in any way, have any credulity, or fading away (as I thought it had already)?

1. Ashley Manning was shipped HGH, possibly illegally.
2. If you don't believe she could have been using the HGH, then some people conclude Peyton must have been using it.

The end.

Also other athletes have been linked by the same media outlet and are now suing.

 

[IrishLax]

If you believe that an athlete who was facing a career ending injury just so happened to be married to someone who is part of an infinitesimal percentage of the population who just so happened to require HGH for valid medical reasons at that exact point in time then you are so credulous of a person as to be a danger to yourself as exceptionally susceptible to being taken advantage of. Especially when the source of that HGH was not a doctor that a regular woman might otherwise see, but a clinic with ties to someone whose career is getting elicit PEDs to athletes. You're getting upset and lobbing some insults my way, but your underlying assumption here (that Peyton Manning's wife was the end user of HGH sent in her name) is not even in the realm of remote plausibility.

How is it not in the realm of possibility? I'll wait.

 

[gkIrish]

People think Peyton Manning decided to try and fool everyone and ship the HGH to his wife instead of himself. So either Manning is really dumb or it wasn't for him.

He literally could have had it shipped to some P.O. Box or to some other person who he doesn't live with if he was trying to fool everyone. Shipping it to his wife would be the next dumbest thing for him to do besides shipping it to himself.

Get real people.

 

[Irish Insanity]

People think Peyton Manning decided to try and fool everyone and ship the HGH to his wife instead of himself. So either Manning is really dumb or it wasn't for him.

He literally could have had it shipped to some P.O. Box or to some other person who he doesn't live with if he was trying to fool everyone. Shipping it to his wife would be the next dumbest thing for him to do besides shipping it to himself.

Get real people.

Or he was using quintuple reverse psychology and did it knowing what you posted would be a plausible explanation.

 

[Rhode Irish]

How is it not in the realm of possibility? I'll wait.

I mean, you could wait, or you could read every other post I've made in this thread.

Housewives do not take HGH. That's not a thing that happens. There may be a handful of women Ashley Manning's age in the country that take HGH for any reason - legit medical or otherwise. The idea that at the exact time Peyton Manning was facing a situation in which many other athletes have used HGH or other PEDs, his wife happened to join the impossibly small group of housewives on HGH is absurd on its face. It defies credulity. The odds of that happening are probably incalculably low.

In fact, it is so absurd to think that Ashley Manning received HGH for her personal use that if she had actually wanted to get HGH for herself, her husband would have forbade it on the grounds that nobody would ever believe that she was really the user of HGH sent to their house if the story ever got out!

You are a smart guy. I frankly do not believe that you believe what you are arguing here. Any amount of healthy skepticism at all would force you to conclude that the story that the HGH were for the wife is insulting to your intelligence.

 

[irishfan]

I mean, you could wait, or you could read every other post I've made in this thread.

Housewives do not take HGH. That's not a thing that happens. There may be a handful of women Ashley Manning's age in the country that take HGH for any reason - legit medical or otherwise. The idea that at the exact time Peyton Manning was facing a situation in which many other athletes have used HGH or other PEDs, his wife happened to join the impossibly small group of housewives on HGH is absurd on its face. It defies credulity. The odds of that happening are probably incalculably low.

In fact, it is so absurd to think that Ashley Manning received HGH for her personal use that if she had actually wanted to get HGH for herself, her husband would have forbade it on the grounds that nobody would ever believe that she was really the user of HGH sent to their house if the story ever got out!

You are a smart guy. I frankly do not believe that you believe what you are arguing here. Any amount of healthy skepticism at all would force you to conclude that the story that the HGH were for the wife is insulting to your intelligence.

This kind of counters GK's point about how it makes no sense why Peyton would try to have it sneakily sent to his wife. It doesn't make much sense to have an illegal subscription sent Ashley Manning even if it were for infertility. Peyton would have to know how suspicious it would look even if was sent for a fine (albeit) illegal reason.

The whole thing leaves more questions than answers which is why the media's reaction is annoying to some.

 

[Rhode Irish]

People think Peyton Manning decided to try and fool everyone and ship the HGH to his wife instead of himself. So either Manning is really dumb or it wasn't for him.

He literally could have had it shipped to some P.O. Box or to some other person who he doesn't live with if he was trying to fool everyone. Shipping it to his wife would be the next dumbest thing for him to do besides shipping it to himself.

Get real people.

I said yesterday that it is amazing he was that lazy in covering his tracks. But if he was smart enough to know that sending it to his wife was insufficient then wouldn't he be smart enough to tell his wife she can't have HGH shipped to her house? So I think this argument cancels itself out in each direction. The real question is do you think Ashley Manning needed HGH at the exact same moment her husband could certainly have benefitted from it to save his career. Keep in mind the very tiny percentage of the population that actually needs HGH. If you can satisfy yourself that that is reasonable, then good for you. But I just cannot convince myself there is any chance that is the case.

 

[IrishLax]

I mean, you could wait, or you could read every other post I've made in this thread.

Not a single one of your posts has remotely explained why it's "implausible" that she was taking HGH. You've explained that you don't think she would take HGH, but not why it's utterly implausible that General Citizen X in her situation might take HGH.

Hell, I'm not a professional athlete. And I've strongly considered going on what amounts to PEDs (including HGH if I knew a reliable way to get them and not go to jail in the process) to deal with nagging injuries I have. I haven't done it, but if I had access...

Housewives do not take HGH. That's not a thing that happens.

Welp, that settles that.

Towards whether I "believe" what I'm saying... I'm not saying Peyton Manning didn't take HGH, and I'm not saying I'd bet strongly one way or another.

I'm saying what I put in the bullet points... and that ultimately, given what has been presented, it's not fair at all to socially convict him as a "PED user" and it's also not fair to demand additional explanation from him or his wife.

 

[ND NYC]

so one can get HGH legally?

 

[gkIrish]

I said yesterday that it is amazing he was that lazy in covering his tracks. But if he was smart enough to know that sending it to his wife was insufficient then wouldn't he be smart enough to tell his wife she can't have HGH shipped to her house? So I think this argument cancels itself out in each direction. The real question is do you think Ashley Manning needed HGH at the exact same moment her husband could certainly have benefitted from it to save his career. Keep in mind the very tiny percentage of the population that actually needs HGH. If you can satisfy yourself that that is reasonable, then good for you. But I just cannot convince myself there is any chance that is the case.

I have no idea why people would take HGH because I'm not a doctor, personal trainer, or anyone that has knowledge about these things. Neither are you. The bottom line is that if this was Giselle and Tom there's no way you would take the position that it's "implausible" that the HGH was not for Peyton Manning. In fact, during Deflategate, all you did was say (over and over again) that "we don't know what happened one way or the other" or something to that effect.

 

[irishfan]

I have no idea why people would take HGH because I'm not a doctor, personal trainer, or anyone that has knowledge about these things. Neither are you. The bottom line is that if this was Giselle and Tom there's no way you would take the position that it's "implausible" that the HGH was not for Peyton Manning. In fact, during Deflategate, all you did was say (over and over again) that "we don't know what happened one way or the other" or something to that effect.

This is true. And this was true with Deflategate. What annoys Patriots fans is that Brady was guilty until proven innocent while the opposite is true with the media (and in this thread) with Peyton.

 

[gkIrish]

This is true. And this was true with Deflategate. What annoys Patriots fans is that Brady was guilty until proven innocent while the opposite is true with the media (and in this thread) with Peyton.

Brady was discussed in text messages. He also said during the initial press conference that he had no idea what happens to balls before games or something like that which was false. That's much more direct evidence than anything in this situation with Manning.

 

[irishfan]

Brady was discussed in text messages. He also said during the initial press conference that he had no idea what happens to balls before games or something like that which was false. That's much more direct evidence than anything in this situation with Manning.

Those texts weren't released until months after everyone determined that Brady was guilty.

He also didn't say that at all. These were the first two questions he was asked in his press conference. If you can't see the double standard being applied with Manning then I don't know what to tell you.

Q: When and how did you supposedly alter the balls?

TB: I didn’t have any – I didn’t alter the ball in any way. I have a process that I go through before every game where I go in and I pick the footballs that I want to use for the game. Our equipment guys do a great job of breaking the balls in. they have a process that they go through. When I pick those balls out, at that point to me they’re perfect. I don’t want anyone touching the balls after that. I don’t want anyone rubbing them, putting any air in them, taking any air out. To me those balls are perfect and that’s what I expect when I show up on the field. That happened obviously on Sunday night. It was the same process that I always go through. I didn’t think anything of it. Obviously I woke up Monday morning and answered a question on the radio about it and that was the first I really hard about it.

Q: This has raised a lot of uncomfortable conversations for people around this country who view you as their idol. The question they’re asking themselves is, ‘What’s up with our hero?’ Can you answer right now, is Tom Brady a cheater?

TB: I don’t believe so. I feel like I’ve always played within the rules. I would never do anything to break the rules. I believe in fair play and I respect the league and everything they’re doing to try to create a very competitive playing field for all the NFL teams. It’s a very competitive league. Every team is trying to do the best they can to win every week. I believe in fair play and I’ll always believe in that for as long as I’m playing.

 

[Rhode Irish]

The bottom line is that if this was Giselle and Tom there's no way you would take the position that it's "implausible" that the HGH was not for Peyton Manning. In fact, during Deflategate, all you did was say (over and over again) that "we don't know what happened one way or the other" or something to that effect.

Brady was discussed in text messages. He also said during the initial press conference that he had no idea what happens to balls before games or something like that which was false. That's much more direct evidence than anything in this situation with Manning.

The distinction in my mind is that here you actually know there was HGH sent to the house, so it becomes a question of what is the likely reason why that is. With the deflategate thing, the whole issue was that we never really knew whether there was actually air taken out of the footballs. So there were many more questions and leaps of logic required there.

But here's the thing, I don't actually care if the guy took HGH. I don't want him punished or embarrassed or any of that. I just don't think the media is handling the two stories consistently or fairly vis a vis each other.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Ha...aren't wealthy women/individuals utilizing HGH to help maintain their youth. I am fairly certain that most of the older actors are using on a continual basis. It has also been reported that there are more and more women turning to it as the fountain of youth. I think that it is absurd to discount the potential for Manning's wife to be taking HGH.

Up to this point there is literally no proof that Manning was taking anything of the like. It is just as off-base to conclude that Manning is guilty because of this, as it is to believe that his wife is trying to stay youthful and fresh for her husband.

 

[Irish#1]

I said yesterday that it is amazing he was that lazy in covering his tracks. But if he was smart enough to know that sending it to his wife was insufficient then wouldn't he be smart enough to tell his wife she can't have HGH shipped to her house? So I think this argument cancels itself out in each direction. The real question is do you think Ashley Manning needed HGH at the exact same moment her husband could certainly have benefitted from it to save his career. Keep in mind the very tiny percentage of the population that actually needs HGH. If you can satisfy yourself that that is reasonable, then good for you. But I just cannot convince myself there is any chance that is the case.

There you have it from Dr. Rhode Irish. BTW Doc, do you happen to know if Ashley Manning is a diabetic?

 

[gkIrish]

Those texts weren't released until months after everyone determined that Brady was guilty.

He also didn't say that at all. These were the first two questions he was asked in his press conference. If you can't see the double standard being applied with Manning then I don't know what to tell you.

What I was referring to (sorry if I misspoke) is that he said in that press conference that he liked his balls to be at 12.5 and he had this whole process before the game of selecting footballs and then in the next breath he said something along the lines of "I have no idea what an underinflated ball feels like." I don't remember the exact line.

Anyway it doesn't matter. Once Spygate happened the Patriots organization lost any sort of presumption of innocence standard I would give any other team. Peyton Manning has never done anything wrong so I will presume he is innocent unless and until some sort of hard evidence tells me he is not. Brady does not get that luxury.

 

[Irish#1]

The distinction in my mind is that here you actually know there was HGH sent to the house, so it becomes a question of what is the likely reason why that is. With the deflategate thing, the whole issue was that we never really knew whether there was actually air taken out of the footballs. So there were many more questions and leaps of logic required there.

But here's the thing, I don't actually care if the guy took HGH. I don't want him punished or embarrassed or any of that. I just don't think the media is handling the two stories consistently or fairly vis a vis each other.

Even when the story isn't about the Pats, Pats fans still feel slighted. lol

 

[Irish#1]

What I was referring to (sorry if I misspoke) is that he said in that press conference that he liked his balls to be at 12.5 and he had this whole process before the game of selecting footballs and then in the next breath he said something along the lines of "I have no idea what an underinflated ball feels like." I don't remember the exact line.

Anyway it doesn't matter. Once Spygate happened the Patriots organization lost any sort of presumption of innocence standard I would give any other team. Peyton Manning has never done anything wrong so I will presume he is innocent unless and until some sort of hard evidence tells me he is not. Brady does not get that luxury.

Pretty sure it's Gisele that likes them 12.5.