Know Your Rights

[IrishinTN]

Also, what the hell is the point of open carry anyways? I am all for gun laws (I carry a 357 magnum with me) but I just don't see the point of needing to carry your weapon in plain sight. Is it because if people see your gun they won't appraoch you in the first place? It just comes off as complete self righteousness.

To a degree I would think if you are carrying your gun where criminals could see it, the would be less likely to try anything because criminals are cowards looking for easy hits. Or...they could be self-righteous.

 

[JadeBrecks]

The opposite is true as well. Most everytime the officer asks a question the kid responds with what law am I breaking? (paraphrase).

Do we know if he was carrying the gun in a holster with a strap or just in his hand? If it was just in his hand, then I think the citizens had every right to be concerned and notify the police. The police then were well withinh their rights to stop him and question him.

I still share the same sentiments as some others on here. This kid never should have done this just to prove a point. Remember freedom of speech doesn't mean you can yell FIRE in a public place just for the sake of doing so.

I touched on this earlier. In Indiana you can just carry a loaded pistol in your hand. It is illegal to do so. It must be properly secured in some form of holster. I would assume but am not for sure that is the standard everywhere. If the kid was carrying it loaded in his hand I think the cop would have mentioned that to him.

As far as not answering the questions that cop posed it was because the kid was arguing he was being improperly detained and did not need to answer any questions.

 

[JadeBrecks]

To your point, and this might have been mentioned but I'm not reading five pages of posts, there were two guys in Oregon who took unloaded AR-15 type rifles slung over their shoulders into the city and just walked up and down the street with them. These two were not waving them or intentionally acting suspicious, just trying to show people that just having the gun doesn't make it dangerous.

Now, not being used to seeing such activity, of course people called the police who did stop the men and talk to them. However there is nothing illegal about carrying these weapons and the police said as much. They also said that people should call them if someone is acting "menacing" with a weapon, but not just because they see someone carrying one. They said it only takes away time that could be spent on other calls. People should never call the police unless they fell outright threatened.

Of course, I suppose that is a gray area depending on the personality of the people involved.

Semi off topic but your post reminded me of it. We used to have a gentleman who rode his moped down the main street here in Fort Wayne, IN with his rifled strapped to his back. People were calling in to everywhere with a phone. Finally the radio stations started broadcasting that the cops knew about it and he wasn't doing anything illegal and to stop calling them about it. I had totally forgot about that. As for a response to BobD I did not call the cops on him either.

 

[BobD]

Semi off topic but your post reminded me of it. We used to have a gentleman who rode his moped down the main street here in Fort Wayne, IN with his rifled strapped to his back. People were calling in to everywhere with a phone. Finally the radio stations started broadcasting that the cops knew about it and he wasn't doing anything illegal and to stop calling them about it. I had totally forgot about that. As for a response to BobD I did not call the cops on him either.

I remember folks in Indiana riding around on scooters. If memory serves me, they were often people who had been convicted of driving while intoxicated and in Indiana you could drive something under 50cc without a license??

 

[irishpat183]

I call bull on the two posters who said they wouldn't care about some guy walking down their street with a visible gun.

If someone has a gun, I think any officer of the law should be able to stop them and just see what they're up to.

Then would you call the cops on a cop walking down the street with a gun....considering that officers of the law are just as prone to having a happy trigger finger as the next guy?


I got no issue with it. Again, you're focusing on the GUN. You need to focus on the person. It's all about who is carrying it and how they're acting.

 

[irishpat183]

Also, what the hell is the point of open carry anyways? I am all for gun laws (I carry a 357 magnum with me) but I just don't see the point of needing to carry your weapon in plain sight. Is it because if people see your gun they won't appraoch you in the first place? It just comes off as complete self righteousness.

So you're saying that a criminal wouldn't think twice about robbing a guy with a gun as opposed to someone without one?

Come on....that's just ridiculous. Of course a criminal will avoid the guy that has a gun in plain sight. Just like criminals are more likely to avoid houses that have a security system ad in their front yard.

 

[FLDomer]

I don't know where some of you live, I've been fortunate enough to live in California, Rhode Island, Georgia, Washington, Florida, Colorado and Indiana. I've never once had a problem with a police officer. I always treat them with the respect I feel they deserve as a public servant that may someday have to put their life on the line for me, as I did for them in the Army. The general attitude of many of these posts makes me shake my head at the world.

Respect law enforcement officials and first responder' s.

I agree with you 1000% on this BobD!

 

[irishpat183]

The point is that the kid baited this situation, so the whole interaction was artificial. This wasn't some spontaneous and random act of persecution. The kid clearly set out to create this encounter, as evidenced by the readiness of his video camera and his canned and awkward case and local ordinance citations. The thing I don't understand is that the kid seemed convinced he couldn't possibly be suspicious, but I would certainly be suspicious of a person walking down a city street showing people his gun the same way I'd be suspicious of someone walking down a street with a ski mask on. Ski masks aren't illegal, either, but that doesn't mean having one doesn't make you suspicious.

Ahhh...So now we're harassing people based on suspicion? Then by all means we need to harass those with saggy pants, beards, backwards hats....etc.

We're getting into the area of "gulity until proven innocent".

And if that's the case, you must have no issue with cops pulling over cars full of hispanics in SOCAL for SUSPICION of being illegal?

 

[irishpat183]

I don't know where some of you live, I've been fortunate enough to live in California, Rhode Island, Georgia, Washington, Florida, Colorado and Indiana. I've never once had a problem with a police officer. I always treat them with the respect I feel they deserve as a public servant that may someday have to put their life on the line for me, as I did for them in the Army. The general attitude of many of these posts makes me shake my head at the world.

Respect law enforcement officials and first responder' s.

Absolutley. I 100% agree.


I'm always respectful and honest with them.


This discussion doesn't mean those on here lack respect for the job officeers do. Get off your high horse.

 

[BGIF]

Absolutley. I 100% agree.


I'm always respectful and honest with them.


This discussion doesn't mean those on here lack respect for the job officeers do. Get off your high horse.

Really?

What was the purpose of the "F*** the police" posts?

Get your head out of your high horse's butt and read what's been posted.

 

[irishpat183]

Really?

What was the purpose of the "F*** the police" posts?

Get your head out of your high horse's butt and read what's been posted.

Who has said "F*** the police"?


What's being discussed is an individual's rights when confronted by the police.

I don't advocate treating an officer of the law like crap...but just because it's an officer of the law, doesn't mean they can take advantage of a citizen.

In fact, the guy in the vid was very respectful.

 

[BGIF]

Who has said "F*** the police"?


What's being discussed is an individual's rights when confronted by the police.

I don't advocate treating an officer of the law like crap...but just because it's an officer of the law, doesn't mean they can take advantage of a citizen.

In fact, the guy in the vid was very respectful.

Buster Bluth was the first. Some others chimed in. From Jade's rant on his lifetime encounters with police ( two, the other one was a friend's story) it was apparent he's never met one worth his respect.

I've read the thread and posted in it since it started.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Buster Bluth was the first.

In post #10. I actually didn't think anyone would think anything of it or I wouldn't have said it. It was mostly in jest.

But then, as shown, a bunch of cops got all offended about a lack of respect and whatnot....which sorta proved my point altogether so I ran with it.

 

[irishpat183]

Buster Bluth was the first. Some others chimed in. From Jade's rant on his lifetime encounters with police ( two, the other one was a friend's story) it was apparent he's never met one worth his respect.

I've read the thread and posted in it since it started.

I doubt they were being serious....

 

[BGIF]

In post #10. I actually didn't think anyone would think anything of it or I wouldn't have said it. It was mostly in jest.

But then, as shown, a bunch of cops got all offended about a lack of respect and whatnot....which sorta proved my point altogether so I ran with it.

I doubt they were being serious....

B.S.!

I read the ALL the posts.

You both sound like WH Press Secretaries (either party) spinning away.

 

[irishpat183]

B.S.!

I read the ALL the posts.

You both sound like WH Press Secretaries (either party) spinning away.

Well, I didn't say it anyway and it doesn't detract from the point I was making.

I doubt anyone here with half a brain would say to an officer of the law "f*** you".

In fact, I doubt that is even the reason that people on here are upset. It's the fact that there are people questioning the police to begin with. That is what upsetting to some. But we forget that they are PUBLIC servants and employed by the tax payers. Serve and protect.....not harass because of suspicion.

 

[Buster Bluth]

You both sound like WH Press Secretaries (either party) spinning away.

Oh no, I fully meant my long rants. But I seriously didn't think people would get their panties in a bunch over "**** The Police," they've clearly never seen the internet meme or heard of NWA.

I could care less, I am not a fan of cops and don't need to hide that. But the more butthurtness is present the funnier it is in retrospect.

"cops are regular guys are are very calm and respectful and rationale and great"
"**** cops"
"you little whiny ungrateful schmuck! i swear to god what is wrong with society! yadda yadda yadda"

I dunno, I laugh in this thread. It's a good time.

 

[PraetorianND]

To your point, and this might have been mentioned but I'm not reading five pages of posts, there were two guys in Oregon who took unloaded AR-15 type rifles slung over their shoulders into the city and just walked up and down the street with them. These two were not waving them or intentionally acting suspicious, just trying to show people that just having the gun doesn't make it dangerous.

Now, not being used to seeing such activity, of course people called the police who did stop the men and talk to them. However there is nothing illegal about carrying these weapons and the police said as much. They also said that people should call them if someone is acting "menacing" with a weapon, but not just because they see someone carrying one. They said it only takes away time that could be spent on other calls. People should never call the police unless they fell outright threatened.

Of course, I suppose that is a gray area depending on the personality of the people involved.

I disagree. I may not feel threatened by a shady van driving slowly through my neighborhood, but if it looks suspicious to me I'm going to report it.

 

[PraetorianND]

Oh no, I fully meant my long rants. But I seriously didn't think people would get their panties in a bunch over "**** The Police," they've clearly never seen the internet meme or heard of NWA.

I could care less, I am not a fan of cops and don't need to hide that. But the more butthurtness is present the funnier it is in retrospect.

"cops are regular guys are are very calm and respect and rationale and great"
"**** cops"
"you little whiny ungrateful schmuck! i swear to god what is wrong with society! yadda yadda yadda"

I dunno, I laugh in this thread. It's a good time.

I dunno, I laugh in this thread. It's a good time.

But then, as shown, a bunch of cops got all offended about a lack of respect and whatnot....which sorta proved my point altogether so I ran with it.

So basically you're just a troll. Good to know.

You realize that it was not just cops that thought you were being a clown but normal people right? Normal people who have had bad interactions with cops and good interactions with cops, people on both sides of the gun argument, and people for and against legalization of marijuana thought you were being outrageous. Basically you just pissed of everyone. Obviously you're a troll, I get that; but why do you troll your own board? Can't you go to a Bama site to **** everyone off and antagonize people?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Ahhh...So now we're harassing people based on suspicion? Then by all means we need to harass those with saggy pants, beards, backwards hats....etc.

We're getting into the area of "gulity until proven innocent".

And if that's the case, you must have no issue with cops pulling over cars full of hispanics in SOCAL for SUSPICION of being illegal?

You really don't see a difference between immutable traits (such as race) or innocuous behavior (such as wearing baggy pants) and carrying around an instant-death-maker in a densely populated area? Guns give an average person reasonable suspicion or apprehension because they can be used to instantly kill someone. Saggy pants and dark skin cannot.

 

[JadeBrecks]

I remember folks in Indiana riding around on scooters. If memory serves me, they were often people who had been convicted of driving while intoxicated and in Indiana you could drive something under 50cc without a license??

This gentleman was driving a plated greater than 50cc scooter which would require a motorcycle licence to operate. He only rode it during the summer too not year round.

P.S. no need to stereotype people on scooters.

 

[irishpat183]

You really don't see a difference between immutable traits (such as race) or innocuous behavior (such as wearing baggy pants) and carrying around an instant-death-maker in a densely populated area? Guns give an average person reasonable suspicion or apprehension because they can be used to instantly kill someone. Saggy pants and dark skin cannot.

But the facts are facts...most illegals in SOCAL are mexican. Aren't most mexicans of dark features (hair and skin tone)??

Therefore, by reason of suspicion, you could pull over a car containing those that appear to be hispanic to "check them"?


The point is, I don't like "suspicion" as a reason to start questioning people. Just because a guy is carrying, legally, a gun doesn't make him "suspicious". That's crap.


Now if he's ducking into a corner store with a ski mask AND a gun? That's suspicious.

People trying to "prevent" crime often boarder the issue of harrassment. Like when NY enacted the "stop and search" deal. Didn't amount to crap for all those "suspicious" people they stopped.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

This is what is hilarious. Outrageous? Pissed off everyone?!Please..

There is nothing trollish about it. I don't like cops. I made a three-word comment that you fellows simply couldn't handle for one reason or another, and I am more than willing to go back-and-forth with because I've had wayyyyy too many experiences with cops to think they're all Momma's good ol' son who's simply fightin' the good fight for the rest of 'murica. And since people on here have agreed with me, it's hardly being trollish when their is a present dissenting opinion.

It may not be popular and their may be fervid disagreement, that's fine. I never insulted anyone directly, I think you're all fine folks.

To be fair, you did walk into this thread carrying a handgun.

 

[PraetorianND]

Nothing to see here.

 

[irishpat183]

This is what is hilarious. Outrageous? Pissed off everyone?!Please..

There is nothing trollish about it. I don't like cops. I made a three-word comment that you fellows simply couldn't handle for one reason or another, and I am more than willing to go back-and-forth with because I've had wayyyyy too many experiences with cops to think they're all Momma's good ol' Boy Scout boys who are simply fightin' the good fight for the rest of 'murica. And since people on here have agreed with me, it's hardly being trollish when their is a present dissenting opinion.

It may not be popular and there may be fervid disagreement, that's fine. I never insulted anyone directly, I think you're all fine folks.

You haven't insulted me. It's your view and you're entitled too it.

I dont' agree...but I dont think you're a troll.



But that's a problem with this board...They don't like what you say, you're either a troll or whatever other label they decide is appropriate at the time(I carry the racist label).

 

[irishpat183]

To be fair, you did walk into this thread carrying a handgun.

LOL....

 

[PraetorianND]

You haven't insulted me. It's your view and you're entitled too it.

I dont' agree...but I dont think you're a troll.



But that's a problem with this board...They don't like what you say, you're either a troll or whatever other label they decide is appropriate at the time(I carry the racist label).

I disagree with you on most things political. But you know how to have a good time, poke fun at others while also poking fun at yourself. You aren't a bully and you genuinely provide a perspective I can learn something from. That's the difference.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

But the facts are facts...most illegals in SOCAL are mexican. Aren't most mexicans of dark features (hair and skin tone)??

Therefore, by reason of suspicion, you could pull over a car containing those that appear to be hispanic to "check them"?


The point is, I don't like "suspicion" as a reason to start questioning people. Just because a guy is carrying, legally, a gun doesn't make him "suspicious". That's crap.


Now if he's ducking into a corner store with a ski mask AND a gun? That's suspicious.

People trying to "prevent" crime often boarder the issue of harrassment. Like when NY enacted the "stop and search" deal. Didn't amount to crap for all those "suspicious" people they stopped.

So you don't think it is suspicious to see a guy that you have never seen before just walking up and down the street in your neighborhood carrying a gun for everyone to see? Would you let your kids out in the front yard to play?

 

[JadeBrecks]

Buster Bluth was the first. Some others chimed in. From Jade's rant on his lifetime encounters with police ( two, the other one was a friend's story) it was apparent he's never met one worth his respect.

I've read the thread and posted in it since it started.

I do not advocate saying f*** the police. I do say my respect is earned not just given away. I don't care if you are a cop or a garbage man. If you earn my respect you will get it if you don't you won't.

 

[greyhammer90]

So you don't think it is suspicious to see a guy that you have never seen before just walking up and down the street in your neighborhood carrying a gun for everyone to see? Would you let your kids out in the front yard to play?

"Is that a man with an assault rifle outside?! Kids! get in here!" .... "Now, if you even THINK you see a ski mask on that guy, you run like hell!! Understand? Alright, go play."