Kids Behaving Badly

[Irish YJ]

Getting this out of the Mayer thread


The Poly Prep NY incident

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/ny-metro-poly-prep-blackface-20190119-story.html



The Covington Catholic DC incident

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...genous-peoples-march-what-we-know/2626355002/

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[ND88]

Hopefully, some parents can put aside politics and recognize disrespect of our elders is intolerable, not because a political or religious movement says so, but because of basic human decency.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm honestly confused about the Covington Catholic thing. I've seen several videos from several angles and it looks like the old indigenous fellow crashed the March for Life to bang a drum and shout in their faces about something unrelated. Lots of the kids are dancing along with the drum. I'm obviously the only person who feels this way so what am I missing?

The full video VERY clearly shows that the indigenous guy was the aggressor.

 

[Wild Bill]

I'm honestly confused about the Covington Catholic thing. I've seen several videos from several angles and it looks like the old indigenous fellow crashed the March for Life to bang a drum and shout in their faces about something unrelated. Lots of the kids are dancing along with the drum. I'm obviously the only person who feels this way so what am I missing?

The full video VERY clearly shows that the indigenous guy was the aggressor.

You're right but something must be done about a group of white guys wearing red hats and smiling.

 

[Irish YJ]

So I read a few articles and watched the vids.

Facts
1) The kids, obviously from conservative backgrounds, were there for the pro-life march
2) The Indigenous March has a few core political attributes. One of them being anti-wall.
3) Typical DC marches have protesters and counter protesters.
4) We see via the vids, the confrontation already in progress, not how it started.
5) The tribal spokesperson did state that it was the tribal elder that approached the kid to "defuse the situation"
6) The tribal elder in the vid, IIRC said the kids were chanting "build that wall"
7) Some of the kids were chanting, some seemed to be just watching
8) I couldn't make out what the kids were chanting (anyone make it out?)
9) There was no violence of any kind

Thoughts/opinions

Some of the kids looked like jerks, but we have almost zero context as to how this started. Were the IM folks just doing simple Native American chants, or were they chanting anti wall stuff? Did the students respond like jerks to simple NA chants, or were they responding to anti-wall protesting by the IM folks. Were the IM folks directing the anti-wall chants at the MAGA wearing kids? Where the students responding but staying in their area, or did they proactively move towards the IM folks. Did the IM tribal elder move toward the student group creating the stare down. The video shows the kid smirking, but he at no time says anything or yells at the guy that is chanting in his face. Again, per the spokesperson, he approached the kid to diffuse the situation. Is chanting in someone's face diffusing a situation?

Overall, I'd like to see more video. If the IM folks, who are progressive, are vocally chanting at MAGA wearing kids, the IM folks own this. If the kids were just being assholes and making fun of Native American chants, they own this. If the kids are simply "protesting back" to anti wall protesting, then it simply is par for the course of a DC protest and is a big meh.

That said, regardless of the above:
1) Where the F were the moderating adults during this?
2) The kids need to grow up. Even if engaged by the IM folks, they need to represent their school better.
3) Politics should be banned from schools...
4) IMO this pales to the Poly Prep incident where an obviously racist video was made, and the administration did absolutely nothing (until it hit the press).


More vids please

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm honestly confused about the Covington Catholic thing. I've seen several videos from several angles and it looks like the old indigenous fellow crashed the March for Life to bang a drum and shout in their faces about something unrelated. Lots of the kids are dancing along with the drum. I'm obviously the only person who feels this way so what am I missing?

The full video VERY clearly shows that the indigenous guy was the aggressor.

I'm still confused myself. Can you link the full vid you're talking about. I've only seen the drum banging in process.

 

[T-Boone]

I'm honestly confused about the Covington Catholic thing. I've seen several videos from several angles and it looks like the old indigenous fellow crashed the March for Life to bang a drum and shout in their faces about something unrelated. Lots of the kids are dancing along with the drum. I'm obviously the only person who feels this way so what am I missing?

The full video VERY clearly shows that the indigenous guy was the aggressor.

I am with you totally. The Indian fellow in the footage reminds me a bit of Will Ferrell in the "more cowbell" skit.
I like calling out a smart arse kid as much as anyone but unless I have missed something this is not much.

 

[ND88]

So I read a few articles and watched the vids.

Facts
1) The kids, obviously from conservative backgrounds, were there for the pro-life march
2) The Indigenous March has a few core political attributes. One of them being anti-wall.
3) Typical DC marches have protesters and counter protesters.
4) We see via the vids, the confrontation already in progress, not how it started.
5) The tribal spokesperson did state that it was the tribal elder that approached the kid to "defuse the situation"
6) The tribal elder in the vid, IIRC said the kids were chanting "build that wall"
7) Some of the kids were chanting, some seemed to be just watching
8) I couldn't make out what the kids were chanting (anyone make it out?)
9) There was no violence of any kind

Thoughts/opinions

Some of the kids looked like jerks, but we have almost zero context as to how this started. Were the IM folks just doing simple Native American chants, or were they chanting anti wall stuff? Did the students respond like jerks to simple NA chants, or were they responding to anti-wall protesting by the IM folks. Were the IM folks directing the anti-wall chants at the MAGA wearing kids? Where the students responding but staying in their area, or did they proactively move towards the IM folks. Did the IM tribal elder move toward the student group creating the stare down. The video shows the kid smirking, but he at no time says anything or yells at the guy that is chanting in his face. Again, per the spokesperson, he approached the kid to diffuse the situation. Is chanting in someone's face diffusing a situation?

Overall, I'd like to see more video. If the IM folks, who are progressive, are vocally chanting at MAGA wearing kids, the IM folks own this. If the kids were just being assholes and making fun of Native American chants, they own this. If the kids are simply "protesting back" to anti wall protesting, then it simply is par for the course of a DC protest and is a big meh.

That said, regardless of the above:
1) Where the F were the moderating adults during this?
2) The kids need to grow up. Even if engaged by the IM folks, they need to represent their school better.
3) Politics should be banned from schools...
4) IMO this pales to the Poly Prep incident where an obviously racist video was made, and the administration did absolutely nothing (until it hit the press).


More vids please

This is well thought out. Not summarily dismissive or accusatory.

Without the conplete picture of what happened, it looks like a lot of immaturity and some uncertainty / strange circumstance.

Personally, it bothers me to see anyone treat an older person with disrespect, and that’s irrespective of race, creed, gender.

It also wasn’t just white guys in maga hats smiling. At one point, a black guy busts a dance move to the older man’s drumming.

 

[Irish YJ]

This is well thought out. Not summarily dismissive or accusatory.

Without the conplete picture of what happened, it looks like a lot of immaturity and some uncertainty / strange circumstance.

Personally, it bothers me to see anyone treat an older person with disrespect, and that’s irrespective of race, creed, gender.

It also wasn’t just white guys in maga hats smiling. At one point, a black guy busts a dance move to the older man’s drumming.

I don't like young punks f'ing with older folks either. Just not sure that's what this is yet.
I do know that old people can be assholes too. Not saying this guy is at all. I just don't have enough info.

What I can say is that CNN has made the rush to judgement and is blowing this up. Now front page. They also interviewed the guy in another vid, and it's typical CNN.

Comments from him were "it was a dangerous situation", and "their anger wanted to rip me apart", and "I'm a Vietnam Vet and know the mentality of 'there's enough of us, let's do this'" is way over the top. At worst the kids were smiling and busting dance moves. They were laughing and smirking. It was never hateful, foul, or violent. Immature, and rude maybe, but never dangerous or angry. And certainly not about to rip him apart. Seems very "victim-ish".....

 

[ND88]

I don't like young punks f'ing with older folks either. Just not sure that's what this is yet.
I do know that old people can be assholes too. Not saying this guy is at all. I just don't have enough info.

What I can say is that CNN has made the rush to judgement and is blowing this up. Now front page. They also interviewed the guy in another vid, and it's typical CNN.

Comments from him were "it was a dangerous situation", and "their anger wanted to rip me apart", and "I'm a Vietnam Vet and know the mentality of 'there's enough of us, let's do this'" is way over the top. At worst the kids were smiling and busting dance moves. They were laughing and smirking. It was never hateful, foul, or violent. Immature, and rude maybe, but never dangerous or angry. And certainly not about to rip him apart. Seems very "victim-ish".....

Our society is so charged right now, with each side clammoring to justify who is right and who is wrong. Generally speaking, the dialogue we desperately need is NOT occurring, and human dignity suffers.

 

[Irish YJ]

Our society is so charged right now, with each side clammoring to justify who is right and who is wrong. Generally speaking, the dialogue we desperately need is NOT occurring, and human dignity suffers.

what bothers me, is that the news sources are going after this full speed with little to no fact of context. at the same time, the Poly issue is buried. if the Poly kids were Catholic boys from a Catholic school, and not from NY, you can damn well bet it would be front page too.

anyway, more info below. you be the judge. i'm sure more vids will come out. does help add a little to the context.

here's what predates the stare down. the kid was just standing in the background behind someone. the guy turn about a few times and then squares up to the kid. the kid doesn't do anything but smile. you can accuse him of having a smirk, but that's about it....

still not sure who got to the general location first, but some of the dialog would lead you to believe that the kids were there, and the IM approached them.

and before the stare down, it looks like most of the kids were clapping along harmlessly to drum and having fun. they didn't look to be really mocking anything. it really didn't become a "thing" until the guy squares up to the kid. and it's not like the kid bowed up or anything. i'd probably smile too. IDK. this is getting less "bad" the more i see/read.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">More video of the MAGA hat wearing Covington Catholic High School students mocking Elder Nathan Phillips at the Indigenous Peoples March in Washington <br><br>1 of 2 <br><br> <a href="https://t.co/yGcpEI9BcF">pic.twitter.com/yGcpEI9BcF</a> <a href="https://t.co/NZ7uFb8KVc">pic.twitter.com/NZ7uFb8KVc</a></p>— ☇RiotWomenn☇ (@riotwomennn) <a href="https://twitter.com/riotwomennn/status/1086702550869516288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[IrishLax]

There was a 9 minute video that was on Facebook (and has since been taken down?) that showed everything in a very different light than what was being portrayed.

This alternate video angle I find interesting --
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Completely different angle.<br>I'm sorry for judging this kid. <a href="https://t.co/1WXz2s2Nhw">pic.twitter.com/1WXz2s2Nhw</a></p>— Sandy (@RightGlockMom) <a href="https://twitter.com/RightGlockMom/status/1086797156307095552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's clear that the Native American approached them. The kid being ripped to shreds for... standing there?... never moved, never went to "intimidate" anyone as has been reported.

It's not just the MAGA kids chanting and/or singing along and/or dancing to the music. At worst, they are guilty of being immature and insensitive. Doing the "tomahawk chop", etc. It's a bad look. This sure as hell wasn't a "mob" that went after Native Americans though. How this is nationwide news I have no clue.

 

[EddytoNow]

If this were a group of Native American teenagers mocking and smirking at a Catholic priest during a Catholic ceremony, would your reaction be the same?

 

[Irish YJ]

If this were a group of Native American teenagers mocking and smirking at a Catholic priest during a Catholic ceremony, would your reaction be the same?

If the Catholic priest squared up on the kid, and all the kid did was smile, it would be a meh to me.

And the headline would be "Catholic Priest approaches, corners, and shouts at young boys". And CNN would crucify the priest, not the smiling kid.

And, did you even review the vids from multiple timelines and angles?

 

[Irish YJ]

So just saw the vids below. LAX, not sure if this is the 9 minute you were talking about. The other vid is where a guy pieces together the different vids to show the timeline.

In short, the news coverage is pretty much crap, dishonest, and simply misleading. This looks more like anti wall IM folks being opportunistic and putting themselves in the middle of the situation to make a statement to MAGA wearing kids. The CNN interview with the "victim" is trash.

Together, the vids show....

1) the students where already there, waiting for their bus (a kid actually says they are waiting for their bus in one of the vids).
2) the IM folks approach them, and walk into the middle of the kids. The kids did not approach them, seek them out, or initiate the situation. The elder gets in the face of a kid who was just standing there. you can even hear the some of the kids asking what the hell is going on.
3) the only foul language i could detect was from one of the IM folks who also told the kids to go back to Europe. I think the kid actually responded and told the guy that all human life originated in Africa lol, basically asking if they all should go back there.
4) the tribal elder was not blocked from getting to where he was going. he was going to the kids. in fact, the kids are the ones that retreated, and the elder stayed after the kids left, and went into a little victory dance himself.

Bonus - CNN mentioned some nice peaceful African American kids reading from the Bible in the area. They were not kids. And they were not nice. The AA Bible readers were yelling at the IM folks...They were also yelling homophobic crap. The students actually booed the "bible readers" for the hatred they were spewing. Doesn't sound like evil Christians to me.

Unless there's other vid telling a different story.... this is...
FAKE NEWS
and
PARTISAN PEARL CLUTCHING

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[Irish YJ]

just saw this from a bud. still watching but it's good. why isn't CNN showing some of these vids?

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[wizards8507]

If this were a group of Native American teenagers mocking and smirking at a Catholic priest during a Catholic ceremony, would your reaction be the same?

Except that's not what happened.

 

[wizards8507]

https://twitter.com/AClementsWKRC/status/1086822521012473858?s=19

 

[Irish YJ]

and here's the full vid (1 hour 46 min) of what went down an hour before and leading up.... the kids were actually drowning out hate speech from guys being homophobic and anti native american... snippets are included in the previous commentary vid i just posted. this may just blow back on CNN and on the pearl clutchers.

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[Irish YJ]

https://twitter.com/AClementsWKRC/status/1086822521012473858?s=19

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ve spliced together cell phone footage from this event, and this student’s account appears to be accurate. Check out the thread below for the sequence of videos: <a href="https://t.co/FSQsGkcCBg">pic.twitter.com/FSQsGkcCBg</a></p>— W. Ghoulie (@SportsBuckeye) <a href="https://twitter.com/SportsBuckeye/status/1086941332764020736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[IrishLax]

So basically the whole thing is 100% bullshit. They were waiting to be picked up by their bus, and they were approached by the Native Americans. They didn't chant "build the wall" and they didn't harass or "mob" anyone, instead the Native American forced his way into the middle of their group and they were the ones being harassed.

 

[Irish YJ]

So basically the whole thing is 100% bullshit. They were waiting to be picked up by their bus, and they were approached by the Native Americans. They didn't chant "build the wall" and they didn't harass or "mob" anyone, instead the Native American forced his way into the middle of their group and they were the ones being harassed.

read the kids response. it's backed up by all the vids that are now available. but yes, and add in the fact that the students prior to being approached by the IM, were booing guys preaching hate about gays, and shouting racist things at IM. The kids thought the IM was actually being friendly and joining them. they didn't realize it was antagonistic until the elder squared up in the face of the kid.

Eddy, interested in your take once you watch everything lol.

 

[Irish YJ]

lol and more. i love this one...

overlays some of the CNN BS to the video. shows the elder talking about the angry faces (while showing him walk up to nothing but smiles). then he talks about the kid moving into his way, not letting him pass, and shows the kid didn't move... then CNN goes to the tribes attorney, who says they were aggressive and filled with hate trying to drown out the Israelites (while showing the kids booing the BIs who are condemning American because we allow gays). plus more... some funny shit.

It starts with some anti white, anti women, anti hispanic, anti catholic, anti trump, anti Indian, anti gay, anti fill in the blank from the same Black Israelites. you name it, they hate it.

and the students boo them.....

CNN, why aren't you showing this lol...

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[Irishize]

I don't like young punks f'ing with older folks either. Just not sure that's what this is yet.
I do know that old people can be assholes too. Not saying this guy is at all. I just don't have enough info.

What I can say is that CNN has made the rush to judgement and is blowing this up. Now front page. They also interviewed the guy in another vid, and it's typical CNN.

Comments from him were "it was a dangerous situation", and "their anger wanted to rip me apart", and "I'm a Vietnam Vet and know the mentality of 'there's enough of us, let's do this'" is way over the top. At worst the kids were smiling and busting dance moves. They were laughing and smirking. It was never hateful, foul, or violent. Immature, and rude maybe, but never dangerous or angry. And certainly not about to rip him apart. Seems very "victim-ish".....

CNN has no longer made any bones about their bias. They are owning it. They reached out to a local news affiliate near the border in Cali to get their first hand take. Once they established that the news affiliate reporters actually saw value in the wall & security they withdrew their invite. Oliver Darcy then issued a meely-mouthed statement about inviting guests all the time only then to rescind based on scheduling conflicts. Something tells me if the point of view by the So Cal affiliate were anti-wall, they’d be on air.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

If this were a group of Native American teenagers mocking and smirking at a Catholic priest during a Catholic ceremony, would your reaction be the same?

You got it wrong. Again.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Smiling, the new microaggression of 2019!!!

At least we can never truly say weve seen and heard it all in this crazy world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ND88]

Some of those students WERE being disrespectful, but certainly not all of them. The disrespect was not in their smiles, but in the irreverant behavior of the few (tomahawking, dancing, singing over). I’m not saying it makes them inherently racist, but it is disrespectful and it would be a shame to not educate why by disregarding any wrongdoing completely. However, from what I can tell, the students didn’t instigate and were doing school chants to counter the inflammatory and racist comments from a few pontificating Black Israelites condemning them for being “white devils”. If anything, those three were the original aggressors.

I think the older man was doing what he thought right, not necessarily trying to instigate either. It may have been a lost in translation moment for all involved. He entered the commotion right after the students had chanted back at the accusatory comments of the BIs. He walked over to the students, played a drum, and sang solemnly. We also don’t know what he was singing. If you look at the various angles, he was not two inches from the face of the young man. There was space between them. They both looked at each other and reacted in the ways they did, neither of them moving. However, the older man was not trying to get around him, and the young student was not blocking him either.

I personally think that this could is a teachable moment for all. Rather than justify any disrespect (whether by claiming the oversensitivity of some exaggerations over “microaggresions” or the exaggerated labelling of a bunch of kids in maga hats as being racists bullying an older decorated Native American veteran) a conversation and an opportunity for dialogue could be had that might bring people together, rather than further alienate.

What is clear is that we need to stop crucifying each other over mistakes made, address infractions honestly based on real context, and try to build sincerely, not just tear down out of anger and a blind desire for retribution over poor leadership.

 

[wizards8507]

Some of those students WERE being disrespectful, but certainly not all of them. The disrespect was not in their smiles, but in the irreverant behavior of the few (tomahawking, dancing, singing over). I&#146;m not saying it makes them inherently racist, but it is disrespectful and it would be a shame to not educate why by disregarding any wrongdoing completely. However, from what I can tell, the students didn&#146;t instigate and were doing school chants to counter the inflammatory and racist comments from a few pontificating Black Israelites condemning them for being &#147;white devils&#148;. If anything, those three were the original aggressors. If the old man is being honest about the &#147;build the wall&#148; chants, then I disagree with him being an aggressor. He entered the commotion right after the students had chanted back at the accusatory comments of the BIs. He walked over to the students, played a drum, and sang solemnly. We also don&#146;t know what he was singing. If you look at the various angles, he was not two inches from the face of the young man. There was space between them. They both looked at each other and reacted in the ways they did, neither of them moving. However, the older man was not trying to get around him, and the young student was not blocking him either. I personally think that this could is a teachable moment for all. Rather than justify any disrespect (whether by claiming the oversenitivity of some exaggerations over &#147;microaggresions&#148; or the exaggerated labelling of a bunch of kids in maga hats as being racists bullying an older decorated Native American veteran) a conversation and an opportunity for dialogue could be had that might bring people together, rather than further alienate.

80,000 people are doing the tomahawk chop in Kansas City right now. It's not racist.

 

[ND88]

80,000 people are doing the tomahawk chop in Kansas City right now. It's not racist.

Right, and the Lincoln Memorial is in Kansas City too. The older Native American vet was clearly protesting at the 50 yard line of Arrowhead stadium.

Also, I said it was irreverent, not racist. It was irreverant, because this occasion had nothing to do with football. So don’t pull that on me.

Context.

 

[wizards8507]

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1087137470670663680?s=19