Kelly NFL Rumors

[IrishLax]

Steve Spurrier and Sumlin are the most overrated IMO.

Dude... Spurrier is legit... come on... look what he has done at South Carolina.

Sumlin you can make a case for.

 

[gkIrish]

Wut? Dude is an amazing coach.

Duke, Florida, and South Carolina were not good programs. He did well at all 3.

He is a good coach. But most people think he is top 3-10. I just don't think he is that great. Always has a WTF game and never wins that big mid-season game South Carolina is always in. South Carolina is 5-5 btw. Elite coaches don't go 5-5.

South Carolina benefits the most from SEC bias in the rankings than any team I can think of. Always seems to play a top 10 team before that team goes on to lose 3 more games. Never drops too much in the rankings after a loss.

 

[Emcee77]

I mean I just keep coming back to this: despite everything, all the mistakes and injuries and suspensions and recruiting problems and the system change ... we are just a few plays away from being undefeated this year.

You can be dissatisfied with the losses, and Kelly certainly bears some responsibility for them as head coach, but when you have a team that could easily be undefeated, and you want to throw the coach out, I think you are a little bats.

 

[ickythump1225]

Steve Spurrier and Sumlin are the most overrated IMO.

Sumlin yes but Spurrier? That man is a f**king outstanding coach. He made Duke good. Florida in the early 90s when he took over is the Florida of today. They were a historically average to bad program. The only reason Florida is considered a top job today is because the OBC made them an elite program. And South Carolina historically is garbage. The fact that they are even in the national conversation is a credit to Spurrier, he's the best coach in their history. He's the best coach in 2 separate programs history, that says something.

 

[Emcee77]

He is a good coach. But most people think he is top 3-10. I just don't think he is that great. Always has a WTF game and never wins that big mid-season game South Carolina is always in. South Carolina is 5-5 btw. Elite coaches don't go 5-5.

I totally agree with you. People sometimes treat Spurrier like a god, but he has been at South Carolina for a long time now and he hasn't looked like duplicating the success he had at Florida. He's a good coach, maybe even a great coach, but not a creme de la creme coach, imo, and I think a lot of people act like he is.

 

[gkIrish]

Sumlin yes but Spurrier? That man is a f**king outstanding coach. He made Duke good. Florida in the early 90s when he took over is the Florida of today. They were a historically average to bad program. The only reason Florida is considered a top job today is because the OBC made them an elite program. And South Carolina historically is garbage. The fact that they are even in the national conversation is a credit to Spurrier, he's the best coach in their history. He's the best coach in 2 separate programs history, that says something.

Spurrier impressively led Duke to relevance (albeit without his own players) and had an extremely successful career at Florida.

I just feel like his career at South Carolina has been very bleh. 4 good seasons out of 10.

 

[pkt77242]

Spurrier impressively led Duke to relevance (albeit without his own players) and had an extremely successful career at Florida.

I just feel like his career at South Carolina has been very bleh. 4 good seasons out of 10.

I agree that he has had some blah seasons there but he did go 11-2 3 straight seasons. Plus SC wasn't very good when he took over.

 

[BMT]

Listening to Sattelite radio today, college football channel, some guest from Florida said if they could pick their dream coach it would be Chip Kelly. Second choice, you guessed it-Brian Kelly ND. The host said they should at least make the call. Wow.

 

[Wingman Ray]

SC was terribad before he came. And on top, has one of the worst markets for high school football. Not as bad as Indiana and Illinois but definitely the worst in the SEC behind Kentucky.

Now dont get me wrong, Spurrier is a jackleg and my most disliked coach...even more than Les Miles. The guy doesnt know when to shut his mouth and his arrogance is just too much. Watching him lose is sickeningly enjoyable.

But keep in mind he took over from Lou Holtz who couldnt make it work at SC and I like to think that Lou was one of the best.

 

[irishog77]

South Carolina had a losing record when Spurrier took over. He won 11 games, including 3 New Year's Dat bowl games, in each of the past 3 seasons. He's done well there at a historically dog school. Teams don't often win Natty's at schools that are historically bad.

What he's done at Duke, Florida, and South Carolina would be like the 2014 version of making Indiana respectable, winning it all and making Texas Tech a threat to win it all for 10 years running, and making Kansas into a perennial good team. Very few coaches in the history of college football have been able to do what he's done.

 

[NDRock]

What he's done at Duke, Florida, and South Carolina would be like the 2014 version of making Indiana respectable, winning it all and making Texas Tech a threat to win it all for 10 years running, and making Kansas into a perennial good team. Very few coaches in the history of college football have been able to do what he's done.

Bingo, younger people may not realize it but Florida was not anywhere near an elite program when he took over. The guy is past his prime but he's one of the best coaches the last 25-30 years.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

South Carolina had a losing record when Spurrier took over. He won 11 games, including 3 New Year's Dat bowl games, in each of the past 3 seasons. He's done well there at a historically dog school. Teams don't often win Natty's at schools that are historically bad.

What he's done at Duke, Florida, and South Carolina would be like the 2014 version of making Indiana respectable, winning it all and making Texas Tech a threat to win it all for 10 years running, and making Kansas into a perennial good team. Very few coaches in the history of college football have been able to do what he's done.

I still love the spanking Lou put on him in the Sugar Bowl.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Can you expound on that? It seems like being a successful CFB HC requires a very rare mix of very specific skills-- the political savvy of a career politician, the schematic chops of a football nerd, and the organizational/ motivational skills and vision of a successful CEO. The job is brutally difficult, expectations are sky high, and very few people can pull all that together, which is why the average HC's tenure is something like 3-4 years (and getting shorter every year, as the coaching carousel accelerates). Yet BK has built multiple programs (GVSU, CMU, UC) from the ground up into champions as a HC. That's a very rare achievement; which is why I'm skeptical of your impression that there are lots of guys who could do what BK does, simply because very few can touch his resume.



If there's another program out there that labors under restrictions similar to ND, it's Stanford. What Harbaugh accomplished was truly remarkable; so even if Shaw is well-above average in his coaching ability, Stanford is probably still in for a steep decline.

No prob. Let's look at a guy like Jimbo, though I personally detest the guy.

The guy has been molded by some excellent coaches: The Bowden family, Saban, Miles among others. But what get's the attention from me was how he had a vision for what he would do with FSU once he was named HFC(remember this time last year seeing stories on ESPN about how he would talk endlessly about his vision to Trickett once he was at FSU). That vision was executed with his staff along with outstanding recruiting where the players were not only freakishly good, but a perfect fit schematically. He gets results out of his players when it's obvious they are not the most sharp players. The only knock on Jimbo is that he can say some stupid things (Kelly isn't immune to that) and takes punishment lightly. Outside of that, he has control of his staff and has a philosophy that rings throughout the organization.

EDIT: I will add this.....BK has been at ND for 5 years, which will be one year short of his CMU and Cinci stays combined. So, while I agree that he took some teams to a place better than where they have been before, he hasn't shown the ability (due to changing jobs) to sustain that level of success over the long haul at one school. I know what he did at GVSU, but I am not sure how that translates to ND.

 

[T Town Tommy]

No prob. Let's look at a guy like Jimbo, though I personally detest the guy.

The guy has been molded by some excellent coaches: The Bowden family, Saban, Miles among others. But what get's the attention from me was how he had a vision for what he would do with FSU once he was named HFC(remember this time last year seeing stories on ESPN about how he would talk endlessly about his vision to Trickett once he was at FSU). That vision was executed with his staff along with outstanding recruiting where the players were not only freakishly good, but a perfect fit schematically. He gets results out of his players when it's obvious they are not the most sharp players. The only knock on Jimbo is that he can say some stupid things (Kelly isn't immune to that) and takes punishment lightly. Outside of that, he has control of his staff and has a philosophy that rings throughout the organization.

Jimbo is known to typically have his WTF game every year. Last year was the exception and this year he would probably have lost 3-4 games if not for JW. Given the fact he has zero credibility when it comes to holding players accountable, I would not even have him on a long list. Winning matters... but not at the cost he appears to take.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Jimbo is known to typically have his WTF game every year. Last year was the exception and this year he would probably have lost 3-4 games if not for JW. Given the fact he has zero credibility when it comes to holding players accountable, I would not even have him on a long list. Winning matters... but not at the cost he appears to take.

Yea, every coach has those.....including the very best in Saban. The trick is to have a system/ players in place that can overcome the annual letdown games. Once he got all of his players on the field, the occurrence of those games has gone from sure fire losses to close wins.

I agree he is a dirt bag when it comes to off the field matters. But when it comes to producing results on the field, he is in the upper tier of CFB.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Yea, every coach has those.....including the very best in Saban. The trick is to have a system/ players in place that can overcome the annual letdown games. Once he got all of his players on the field, the occurrence of those games has gone from sure fire losses to close wins.

I agree he is a dirt bag when it comes to off the field matters. But when it comes to producing results on the field, he is in the upper tier of CFB.

Let's see what he does without JW. FSU this year is a shell of what they were last year. He did lose a lot of players to the draft so I can give him a pass on that. But I want to see him win more the next few seasons. Plus, winning the ACC every year isn't a great feat IMO.

 

[Spitfire]

You can add Sullivan, Seeberg, Tuiasosopo to that list as well. I'd bet Golson at QB gets us 1-2 more wins last year, and the Frozen Five probably another 1-2 this year. Kelly's peers don't have to deal with that kind of stuff at other schools.



(1) Almost everyone on that two-deep played quite a bit in 2012; and (2) you forgot Farley, Russell and Jones.



How about his 34-6 record at Cinci? His earlier stops matter, because they prove that he's a program builder. Earlier coaching stops for Stoops, Saban and Meyer are legitimately included in their winning %s.



It's not hard to fathom. Kelly has done it twice already, and he's likely to do it again this year. I think he's elite because I remember what our program was like for the 14 years before he arrived, and because the objective data says he's elite. I don't dismiss the possibility that someone else could do better, but when I look around the CFB coaching landscape, I don't see any plausible options.



Do you understand the concept of a "floor"? Kelly has literally never won fewer than 8 games in a season, and unless he loses out this year (including the bowl game), that will hold heading into 2015. His "average" over 13 annual games is ~9.5 wins/ season.



Have you visited NDNation before? You'd fit right in over there. They've been having this same discussion for almost two decades now.

I do hope Swarbrick has a succession plan in place for when Kelly leaves, but he's a helluva lot smarter than you, and I'd bet large sums he's not currently looking to replace Kelly.



As I mentioned earlier, I remember the last three coaching regimes, and I prefer to base my arguments on objective statistical data rather than emotional outbursts.



No one liked the outcome of the NW game. Kelly bears a lot of responsibility for that, which he's already owned up to. But if you want to b!tch about the "direction of the program" instead of the last few games, you don't have a leg to stand on.

I think the bottom line here is we all want this program to win, some just have lower expectations on a time line to accomplishing all that. This is year five under Kelly and the team has just lost 3 of the last 4 including the debacle against Northwestern at home. (I won't even mention the games we maybe should have also lost in sloppy performances against Stanford, NC, and Navy). I don't expect this to happen to someone who is an "elite" coach, academic standards be damned, and I fear that is not the end of the story going into the final two games.

Let me ask you this, is there a point where you finally go, "I've seen enough?" I'm guessing no, being that the fear of what was is an overwhelming factor in your support of Kelly but I'm going to ask anyways. I am on record in this thread as stating that although I am not happy with Kelly, he should not be fired no matter how the rest of this year plays out and I don't think it's even a discussion close to happening. At the least he should get next season when all the stars should be aligned for him. His "guy" at QB, almost every returning starter, 3 impact players from the Frozen Five returning, Van Gorter with a year under his belt, a much more manageable schedule, and the man himself (Kelly) calling plays. Can we agree that this team should be in the playoffs next season? I see it as a no more excuse year.

So the question is, what will be your stance if we get the traditional 9-4, or 8-5 season next year?

 

[BMT]

Lets not forget other programs get 3-4 automatic wins a year with the likes of directional state U x2 plus Presbyterian or UT-Martin, Chatanooga etc. Ohio State does this every year and the playoff committee doesn't care. We really should play some of these "glorified buys" too.

 

[kmoose]

SC was terribad before he came.

No they weren't. They were 25-22, in the 4 years before he came on board.

 

[Irish#1]

I think the bottom line here is we all want this program to win, some just have lower expectations on a time line to accomplishing all that. This is year five under Kelly and the team has just lost 3 of the last 4 including the debacle against Northwestern at home. (I won't even mention the games we maybe should have also lost in sloppy performances against Stanford, NC, and Navy). I don't expect this to happen to someone who is an "elite" coach, academic standards be damned, and I fear that is not the end of the story going into the final two games.

Let me ask you this, is there a point where you finally go, "I've seen enough?" I'm guessing no, being that the fear of what was is an overwhelming factor in your support of Kelly but I'm going to ask anyways. I am on record in this thread as stating that although I am not happy with Kelly, he should not be fired no matter how the rest of this year plays out and I don't think it's even a discussion close to happening. At the least he should get next season when all the stars should be aligned for him. His "guy" at QB, almost every returning starter, 3 impact players from the Frozen Five returning, Van Gorter with a year under his belt, a much more manageable schedule, and the man himself (Kelly) calling plays. Can we agree that this team should be in the playoffs next season? I see it as a no more excuse year.

So the question is, what will be your stance if we get the traditional 9-4, or 8-5 season next year?

This is true, but it wasn't until year three when he finally got the recruiting figured out. In years 1 & 2, he was going after 4 and 5 star kids, but if I recall he wasn't covering his bases so if one flipped he didn't have plan B to fall back on. Since then, he's gotten better at making sure his has several options and is better at reading what kids are higher risks to flip and how to keep them or pursue someone else.

 

[irishog77]

No they weren't. They were 25-22, in the 4 years before he came on board.

They were pretty damn close to it. Those 4 years you mentioned were under Lou Holtz, a Hall of Fame Coach. So a HOF'er gets them to 25-22. Oh, and that 5th year before the 4 you mentioned, they were 0-12.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Steve Spurrier and Sumlin are the most overrated IMO.

I'd be down for him as our coach if BK left

 

[Cackalacky]

Dude... Spurrier is legit... come on... look what he has done at South Carolina.

Sumlin you can make a case for.

Spurrier is a demigod in SC. Since has has arrived he has boosters giving their first borns to him, buying life insurance to secure home game seats, jumbotron, sound systems, fireworks, full stadium and facility up grades, the city is redeveloping adjoining properties into high rise condos that over look the stadium, Cockabooses are always full and profitable. They just added a top shelf promenade for full boosters to park and walk to the stadium. This used to be a train yard. Before this it was the state fairgrounds and a railroad track at the stadium. I honestly can't name another coach at any other school to accomplish what he has at USC program wide

 

[T Town Tommy]

Spurrier is a demigod in SC. Since has has arrived he has boosters giving their first horns to him, buying life insurance to Secure home game seats, jumbotron, sound systems, fireworks, full stadium and facility up grades, the city is redeveloping adjoining properties into high rise condos that over look the stadium, Cockabooses are always full and profitable. They just added a top shelf promenade for full boosters to park and walk. To the stadium. This used to be a train yard. Before this it was the state fairgrounds and a railroad track at the stadium. I honestly can't name another coach at any other school to accomplish what he has at USC program wide

Yep. OBC has taken the Gamecocks to heights I didn't think possible. Plus, he beats Clemson most every year, wins the recruiting battles in state more often than not, and has won 10+ for three years straight I believe. At South Carolina of all places.

I did read in an earlier post that South Carolina high school football was lacking serious talent. Since when? They have always had a large talent pool or so I thought. And that's one reason OBC has been successful. He was able to keep them players in state more often than not. Help me out there cacky. Am I wrong on the talent pool?

 

[Cackalacky]

Yep. OBC has taken the Gamecocks to heights I didn't think possible. Plus, he beats Clemson most every year, wins the recruiting battles in state more often than not, and has won 10+ for three years straight I believe. At South Carolina of all places.

I did read in an earlier post that South Carolina high school football was lacking serious talent. Since when? They have always had a large talent pool or so I thought. And that's one reason OBC has been successful. He was able to keep them players in state more often than not.

Well our largest schools are 4-A. Also they are there just not at the quantities of Georgia and Florida. There are also phases in talent where there are huge boom/barren cycles. The late 1980s, mid 1990s and mid-late 2000s had lot of talent.

I honestly wish ND went after more kids here but they just aren't gonna go to a Catholic college in the Midwest.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Well our largest schools are 4-A. Also they are there just not at the quantities of Georgia and Florida. There are also phases in talent where there are huge boom/barren cycles. The late 1980s, mid 1990s and mid-late 2000s had lot of talent.

I honestly wish ND went after more kids here but they just aren't gonna go to a Catholic college in the Midwest.

Thanks. Alabama is about the same. A lot of talent most years, but not the numbers like Fla or Ga, who has significantly higher populations. As far as ND landing some, it may change now that the Irish are affiliated with the ACC. Will still be a hard draw but maybe seeing more of the Irish would help.

 

[kmoose]

They were pretty damn close to it. Those 4 years you mentioned were under Lou Holtz, a Hall of Fame Coach. So a HOF'er gets them to 25-22. Oh, and that 5th year before the 4 you mentioned, they were 0-12.

They were over .500, for the four year period before Spurrier took over. They weren't great, maybe not even really good, but they weren't anything near terrible, either.

 

[kmoose]

Well our largest schools are 4-A. Also they are there just not at the quantities of Georgia and Florida. There are also phases in talent where there are huge boom/barren cycles. The late 1980s, mid 1990s and mid-late 2000s had lot of talent.

I honestly wish ND went after more kids here but they just aren't gonna go to a Catholic college in the Midwest.

See Tony Rice and Everett Golson........

 

[T Town Tommy]

FOOTBALL | COACH | SALARIES | USA TODAY SPORTS

Being 64th on this list at $1.45 mil a year may change my mind on Kelly staying. He is extremely underpaid as a coach.

 

[koonja]

No they weren't. They were 25-22, in the 4 years before he came on board.

They were over .500, for the four year period before Spurrier took over. They weren't great, maybe not even really good, but they weren't anything near terrible, either.

Your incorrect, over-use of the comma drives me nuts, lol.

Don't, over, comma, when, not, necessary.