John Oliver on "religious" tax exemptions

[IrishinSyria]

Really, really well done piece. Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, but I thought it deserved its own thread.


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[pkt77242]

It is a great job by John Oliver. It kills me that Comedy Central didn't find a way to keep him, he should be replacing Jon Stewart.

 

[GATTACA!]

It is a great job by John Oliver. It kills me that Comedy Central didn't find a way to keep him, he should be replacing Jon Stewart.

No way he's better on HBO he has way more free reign.

 

[gkIrish]

The title of this thread is misleading. The video is 90% about the scam of televangelism and 10% about religious tax exemptions.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The title of this thread is misleading. The video is 90% about the scam of televangelism and 10% about religious tax exemptions.

But all of those scam televangelists have tax exempt status.

 

[arahop]

That is awesome and spot on.

 

[NDgradstudent]

So the preferred policy should be to deny churches tax exempt status?

 

[pkt77242]

So the preferred policy should be to deny churches tax exempt status?

What a shocker that you would post something like that? Who is calling to deny church's tax exempt status?

Did you actually watch the video?

 

[NDgradstudent]

What a shocker that you would post something like that? Who is calling to deny church's tax exempt status?

Did you actually watch the video?

I watched some of it, but it is 20 minutes long. My limit for smarminess is met about a minute in.

Many secular liberals, who make up about 50% of the Democratic party and 100% of the audience of the Daily Show and its spin-offs, have long opposed the church tax exemptions. Now that it runs up against their fashionable pet issue (gay marriage) we can expect to see an assault upon the exemptions.

 

[Circa]

What is there to gain by not taxing a religious entity? If the way Is righteous than the help shouldn't hurt.
Que the politically correct; altho that isn't so anymore.

 

[pkt77242]

I watched some of it, but it is 20 minutes long. My limit for smarminess is met about a minute in.

Many secular liberals, who make up about 50% of the Democratic party and 100% of the audience of the Daily Show and its spin-offs, have long opposed the church tax exemptions. Now that it runs up against their fashionable pet issue (gay marriage) we can expect to see an assault upon the exemptions.

LOL. Seriously? Do you even believe the bullshit you spew?

If you actually watched the clip, one of the first things he says is that this isn't an attack on Church's that help the poor, feed the hungry etc. As usual you show an absolute lack of understanding of the beliefs of anyone who has different views than yourself.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't believe that he mentioned getting rid of the exemption a single time in that clip. What he did do was point out a very real abuse of the exemption and an insane lack of auditing for that abuse. If you're someone that agrees with the exemption for churches (which I am), then you should be even more appalled.

The real losers are the poor souls that get ripped off by people preying on their poor fortune. The cases he showed were big, national scams. There are shysters in every major city in the country portraying themselves as place of worship, when they are really just pulling off a pretty appalling scam. There's one here in Michiana that's pulling this same stuff. That's not what the mission of the exemption is trying to achieve and it is easily fixed through a small amount of auditing. When they get a 100% tax relief, then we should be checking the books of more than 3 total in the last two years. As a banker, I have seen a fair share of church financials. It's easy to spot.

 

[Circa]

I don't believe that he mentioned getting rid of the exemption a single time in that clip. What he did do was point out a very real abuse of the exemption and an insane lack of auditing for that abuse. If you're someone that agrees with the exemption for churches (which I am), then you should be even more appalled.

The real losers are the poor souls that get ripped off by people preying on their poor fortune. The cases he showed were big, national scams. There are shysters in every major city in the country portraying themselves as place of worship, when they are really just pulling off a pretty appalling scam. There's one here in Michiana that's pulling this same stuff. That's not what the mission of the exemption is trying to achieve and it is easily fixed through a small amount of auditing. When they get a 100% tax relief, then we should be checking the books of more than 3 total in the last two years. As a banker, I have seen a fair share of church financials. It's easy to spot.

Jimmy Swigert was something else. Great guy

 

[TomHaverford]

that video was hilarious, yet frightening.

 

[Redbar]

I watched some of it, but it is 20 minutes long. My limit for smarminess is met about a minute in.

Many secular liberals, who make up about 50% of the Democratic party and 100% of the audience of the Daily Show and its spin-offs, have long opposed the church tax exemptions. Now that it runs up against their fashionable pet issue (gay marriage) we can expect to see an assault upon the exemptions.

Brilliant!

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Great video. I meant to post a reply yesterday but I went to bed beforehand. I forwarded it to a friend and family member.

John Oliver knocked it out of the park. I wish these people would be thrown into jail.

 

[Corry]

Great video. I meant to post a reply yesterday but I went to bed beforehand. I forwarded it to a friend and family member.

John Oliver knocked it out of the park. I wish these people would be thrown into jail.

While I agree, its a very slippery slope. I'm sure more harm than good would come out of it if the government started investigating churches.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I watched some of it, but it is 20 minutes long. My limit for smarminess is met about a minute in.

Many secular liberals, who make up about 50% of the Democratic party and 100% of the audience of the Daily Show and its spin-offs, have long opposed the church tax exemptions. Now that it runs up against their fashionable pet issue (gay marriage) we can expect to see an assault upon the exemptions.

 

[IrishinSyria]

While I agree, its a very slippery slope. I'm sure more harm than good would come out of it if the government started investigating churches.

Maybe, but letting blatant fraud go unchecked will make legitimate institutions look bad too. People like me will start to wonder what higher purpose is served by stained glass windows, for example, that justifies tax exemptions. Head down the slippery slope and hope we can navigate an acceptable compromise on it or risk running off a cliff.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

1. Maybe, but letting blatant fraud go unchecked will make legitimate institutions look bad too. 2. People like me will start to wonder what higher purpose is served by stained glass windows, for example, that justifies tax exemptions. Head down the slippery slope and hope we can navigate an acceptable compromise on it or risk running off a cliff.

1. This isn't affecting any Catholic churches as far as I can see? It's hopefully reaching enough people that we find a way to get these terrible people off the airwaves and confiscate any money they've received. Unless people are so feeble-minded their reaction to this is shrugging and thinking, "religion".

2. This is the problem, I gave you the benefit of the doubt with this piece. I thought you really wanted to tax people who profit off ignorance and have more defined standards for those who claim to operate a religion. Instead, what you really want to do is chip away and gain more control over what and how churches operate. I think NDGradstudent may have been right about this one.

Churches shouldn't have to compromise their tax-exempt status. It almost makes me laugh until I realize this is reality. There is a power grab and the pendulum is swinging.

 

[IrishinSyria]

1. This isn't affecting any Catholic churches as far as I can see? It's hopefully reaching enough people that we find a way to get these terrible people off the airwaves and confiscate any money they've received. Unless people are so feeble-minded their reaction to this is shrugging and thinking, "religion".

2. This is the problem, I gave you the benefit of the doubt with this piece. I thought you really wanted to tax people who profit off ignorance and have more defined standards for those who claim to operate a religion. Instead, what you really want to do is chip away and gain more control over what and how churches operate. I think NDGradstudent may have been right about this one.

Churches shouldn't have to compromise their tax-exempt status. It almost makes me laugh until I realize this is reality. There is a power grab and the pendulum is swinging.

I don't think that's what I said. I was responding specifically to people who were saying that it would be too much of a slippery slope to go after these guys. I don't think it is, I have confidence that we can spot blatant fraud when it happens.

The second part of what I said was the cliff thing. If people insist that we cannot tax prosperity gospel con artists because of the slippery slope, then and only then would I support an across the board repeal of the tax exemption for religion. Again, I don't think this is necessary, but it beats leaving a giant loophole open for people who exploit the poorest and most desperate.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't think that's what I said. I was responding specifically to people who were saying that it would be too much of a slippery slope to go after these guys. I don't think it is, I have confidence that we can spot blatant fraud when it happens.

The second part of what I said was the cliff thing. If people insist that we cannot tax prosperity gospel con artists because of the slippery slope, then and only then would I support an across the board repeal of the tax exemption for religion. Again, I don't think this is necessary, but it beats leaving a giant loophole open for people who exploit the poorest and most desperate.

I usually laugh at "Bible Thumpers" who talk about the "war on religion" or "Christian persecution"... but then I read someone actually suggesting that the federal Government taxing religions is a reasonable course of action, and maybe the Thumpers have a point. How can anyone actually defend that point of view?

On top of being borderline unconstitutional to tax churches, it's not even a rational approach to address misconduct by a handful of televangelists or Scientology or whatever.

 

[woolybug25]

I usually laugh at "Bible Thumpers" who talk about the "war on religion" or "Christian persecution"... but then I read someone actually suggesting that the federal Government taxing religions is a reasonable course of action, and maybe the Thumpers have a point. How can anyone actually defend that point of view?

On top of being borderline unconstitutional to tax churches, it's not even a rational approach to address misconduct by a handful of televangelists or Scientology or whatever.

Why do you feel that it isn't rational to audit churches in a manner that verifies if they are actually getting their exemption as the nature of the break intended? I don't understand why it would be considered irrational to make sure that they aren't abusing a system? As someone that supports the exemption on face value, I definitely find it appalling that scam artists are using it as a way to not only rip people off, but also avoid taxation after they rip them off.

Btw, this isn't a problem limited to scientology and a handful of rogue televangelist. This is a big time scam going on around the country. Every decent sized city in the country has some creep pulling this stuff off locally. Not only are we not trying to identify who they are, we are purposely enabling them to do so.

 

[Circa]

I usually laugh at "Bible Thumpers" who talk about the "war on religion" or "Christian persecution"... but then I read someone actually suggesting that the federal Government taxing religions is a reasonable course of action, and maybe the Thumpers have a point. How can anyone actually defend that point of view?

On top of being borderline unconstitutional to tax churches, it's not even a rational approach to address misconduct by a handful of televangelists or Scientology or whatever.

Logically we find ourselves in that dilemma. My question is how do we start the education needed to enlighten those poor souls sending their milk money to a bottomless pit.

This John Oliver clip is the beginning of that. My grandmother would send money religiously and as she read her Bible daily she would find these people in everyday life. That is a good thing until being takin to the bank literally meant being robbed by a thought process. I am a believer just not simply.

 

[IrishLax]

Why do you feel that it isn't rational to audit churches in a manner that verifies if they are actually getting their exemption as the nature of the break intended? I don't understand why it would be considered irrational to make sure that they aren't abusing a system? As someone that supports the exemption on face value, I definitely find it appalling that scam artists are using it as a way to not only rip people off, but also avoid taxation after they rip them off.

That's not what I said. The part I bolded was the sentence that said they would "support across the board repeal of the tax exemption for religion" if we can't find a way to tax con artists.

As if the minuscule amount of money the Government is missing out on via "for profit" religion would somehow justify allowing the Government to regulate what is or isn't religion, and how much money you have to pay Uncle Sam in order for them to allow you to run your religion.

Btw, this isn't a problem limited to scientology and a handful of rogue televangelist. This is a big time scam going on around the country. Every decent sized city in the country has some creep pulling this stuff off locally. Not only are we not trying to identify who they are, we are purposely enabling them to do so.

How exactly is it not a small problem? It's a very small percentage of Americans getting swindled for money... money that if taxed would be less than a drop in the bucket of our country's overall tax revenue.

 

[IrishinSyria]

How exactly is it not a small problem? It's a very small percentage of Americans getting swindled for money... money that if taxed would be less than a drop in the bucket of our country's overall tax revenue.

All I was saying is I don't think that the slippery slope is a good reason not to go after people exploiting the system. It's not about the revenue, at least at the federal level (a lot of the smaller scams are set up to dodge municipal property taxes, which can have a big effect on the local community. Google lake bluff tax exemption for an example of that). It's about a system that rewards predatory behavior and the exploitation of the most vulnerable people in our community.

 

[woolybug25]

That's not what I said. The part I bolded was the sentence that said they would "support across the board repeal of the tax exemption for religion" if we can't find a way to tax con artists.

As if the minuscule amount of money the Government is missing out on via "for profit" religion would somehow justify allowing the Government to regulate what is or isn't religion, and how much money you have to pay Uncle Sam in order for them to allow you to run your religion.

Ok. I must have misread on and agree that you don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater". That being said, I really don't think this is a little amount of money. Some of these mega churches ran by guys like Robert Tilton, rake in millions of dollars. Tilton himself has a net worth over $80 million. All tax free. Then collectively, if you add all of the small timey "seed faith" ministers littered around the country, we are talking real dollars. Certainly enough money to put the same amount of due diligence that you would for pharmacy's or dermatologist.

How exactly is it not a small problem? It's a very small percentage of Americans getting swindled for money... money that if taxed would be less than a drop in the bucket of our country's overall tax revenue.

As I mentioned above, you have people like this literally telling people to send their chemo money to them. Most have very detailed, very scaleable scams to fraud people out of their money. That is all outside of the massive amount of tax break they are getting. Would you be okay with any other industry with over 350,000 businesses to go completely unaudited? In comparison, there are about 15,000 check cashing businesses. They are heavily audited and process far less money that churches in this country.

 

[IrishLax]

All I was saying is I don't think that the slippery slope is a good reason not to go after people exploiting the system. It's not about the revenue, at least at the federal level (a lot of the smaller scams are set up to dodge municipal property taxes, which can have a big effect on the local community. Google lake bluff tax exemption for an example of that). It's about a system that rewards predatory behavior and the exploitation of the most vulnerable people in our community.

Which makes sense, I only really objected to the idea that taxing is a solution. I feel like if the problem is literal fraud, then the correct solution is to target scam artists with criminal fraud laws.

 

[kmoose]

Would you be okay with any other industry with over 350,000 businesses to go completely unaudited? In comparison, there are about 15,000 check cashing businesses. They are heavily audited and process far less money that churches in this country.

I get what you are saying about oversight, and I agree. By the same token, do we really want Lois Lerner's group deciding who should be tax exempt and who shouldn't? I think the big issue is with the organization that would be doing the auditing, not necessarily the auditing itself.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Thought I'd share this. I have a "degree" from Rod Parsley's bible college. I used to really look up to him, now this stuff just makes me sick.

Addicting Info – Evangelical Pastor Claims Giving Him Your Hard-Earned Money Can Cure Brain Tumors (VIDEO)