Jameis Winston Decision 2pm

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philipm31

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And i do not think that the school should EVER have to pay for handlers for star athletes....EVER.

If the FAMILY wants to pay for them, fine. But asking the school to pay for it when they already make sure that Winston has a full ride and never has to pay for anything related to food, lodging, etc. is beyond ludicrous, Heisman Winner or not.
 
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philipm31

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Cackalacky said:
the NFL does not give two craps about off-the field incidents as long as you are not goofy on twitter.

I am fully convinced a person could do pretty much anything but kill a cop and still be able to play in the NFL.
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Then why were scouts and GMs already talking about how very few NFL teams would trust Winston after this latest incident, and that his draft stock went from surefire first rounder--perhaps #1 overall--to "a front office executive stated he believed the quarterback was falling out of the first round. Another scout also hinted the Florida State product couldn’t be trusted moving forward."
Jameis Winston is destroying his 2015 NFL draft stock, says NFL scout | Audibles - SI.com

Winston needs to stay completely on the straight and narrow for the rest of the year, and based on his previous conduct, I don't see how anyone can legitimately say that he won't do something else in bad judgement.

But yeah, sure, let the school pay thousands of dollars to have a private security detail around him because he is a Heisman winner???? RIIIIGHT.
 
NoJusticeNoPeace

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There's something wrong with Jameis. He's just so...stupid. For someone who is so talented and makes great football decisions, his decisions off the field are horrendous. The fact that he needs a "handler" makes me think he has the decision making skills and intelligence of a kindergarten kid.
 
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philipm31

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What is the proof that Tebow had handlers? And did he have them after he was accused of the things that Winston was?

No. Tebow never really needed them for the reason that Winston does, because Tebow never put himself into the same situations that Jameis has.

Tebow was not the best QB, particularly in the NFL, but he was far from a moron.

And I would like to see legit proof that he actually had them while at Florida.

And I still stand by the fact that MANY underclassmen have gone back to school while being Heisman winners and NONE of them had any problems even close to Winston's.

JW is the very definition of a spoiled brat--even worse than JFF, which I never thought I would say--and he probably needed "handlers" before arriving on campus, since the rape allegation was made a year before he every took a snap on the field....and the case is still being investigated.

His actions are almost as tone-deaf as what the alums are doing by erecting a statue to JoePa in State College.
 
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philipm31

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NDWorld247 said:
You're sadly mistaken. Tebow had security and "handlers" aplenty and they did a pretty good job. Bob Tebow made sure of it, he just didn't talk to USA Today about it.



How do you know this? How do you know Mr. Winston didn't sit down with FSU brass the day after he won the Heisman and come to an agreement about how they would handle his notoriety moving forward? I assure you they did. It basically says so in the USA Today article.



I'm not on a high horse nor am I outraged. All I said was some of you were underestimating what winning the Heisman means for a student-athlete who must return to school and, as a parent, I would ask for the same things Mr. Winston has. You made it about crab legs with your response and the Bama boys chimed in with not giving him a free pass (which I agree with) and how accepting a division 1 scholarship and winning the Heisman are part of the package (which is ridiculous). No one cared to address my point. Pitchforks have been drawn and apparently that's how this thread is going to go. I'll see myself out.

I would encourage you to read the original USA Today story instead of Fox Sports version of it. They can TOTALLY make it read however they want and put funny words like "handler" in the title.
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Let me ask another question then.

Does Winston deserve 24/7 security more than the PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY? No, and yet Winston's father statement reeks of the same kind of arrogance that Jameis has been displaying since he got on campus, and if TTown Tommy is to be believed (and I see no reason why not he should not be), since before HIGH SCHOOL. According to Mr. Winston, Jameis a Heisman winner so OF COURSE he should never be alone.

No, what he needs is a CONSCIENCE, which is something that your FAMILY should provide you, so you know the difference between right and wrong, realize there are consequences for your actions and help you mature into a grown man, which apparently the Winstons never did and now they want the University to devote money and manpower to guarding a SINGLE STUDENT??? I know they say it takes a village to raise a child now, but I think that is pushing the envelope just a bit much.


And again, if Tebow had extra 24/7 security, it was paid for and provided by his father, NOT the school. Outside of athletic events, the Heisman Trophy winner should be on his own so he can actually be a college student. If the kid cannot handle being alone while off the field, then he needs to reassess his choices.

I seriously doubt that Tebow's father was worried about Tim stealing from local grocery stores or "allegedly" raping a young woman within months of getting on campus. The comparison is not even remotely close.

Yeah, we are all for drawing and quartering Lewan because he went to Michigan, but not a peep about how the TPD covered up the rape allegation for a year can be made about the Heisman Trophy winner? That is why people are upset because Winston did worse than verbally assaulting or threatening a woman, he actually is accused of sexually assaulting her. But hey, Lewan is scum because he went to Michigan, but Winston is untouchable because he went to FSU and won the Heisman?

Interesting.
 
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NDWorld247

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philipm31 said:
Let me ask another question then.

Does Winston deserve 24/7 security more than the PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY? No, and yet Winston's father statement reeks of the same kind of arrogance that Jameis has been displaying since he got on campus, and if TTown Tommy is to be believed (and I see no reason why not he should not be), since before HIGH SCHOOL. According to Mr. Winston, Jameis a Heisman winner so OF COURSE he should never be alone.

No, what he needs is a CONSCIENCE, which is something that your FAMILY should provide you, so you know the difference between right and wrong, realize there are consequences for your actions and help you mature into a grown man, which apparently the Winstons never did and now they want the University to devote money and manpower to guarding a SINGLE STUDENT??? I know they say it takes a village to raise a child now, but I think that is pushing the envelope just a bit much.


And again, if Tebow had security it was paid for and provided by his father, NOT the school.

I seriously doubt that Tebow's father was worried about Tim stealing from local grocery stores or "allegedly" raping a young woman within months of getting on campus. The comparison is not even remotely close.

Yeah, we are all for drawing and quartering Lewan because he went to Michigan, but not a peep about how the TPD covered up the rape allegation for a year can be made about the Heisman Trophy winner? That is why people are upset because Winston did worse than verbally assaulting or threatening a woman, he actually is accused of sexually assaulting her. But hey, Lewan is scum because he went to Michigan, but Winston is untouchable because he went to FSU and won the Heisman?

Interesting.
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Philip...I don't even know where to begin and, frankly, I've said my piece on this subject so I'm hesitant to engage in this discussion again. I'll address your comments re: Tebow and leave the Winston points alone (we're not going to agree and it's not my desire to convince you or anyone else to agree with my view).

Tebow had security and it was provided by the University of Florida. Believe me or not. I don't care either way because I speak the truth whether you wish to accept that or not. And, he had security because it's needed in this day and age for underclassmen who win the Heisman and have to go back to school. It is a school's responsibility to protect their student-athletes and some (i.e. Heisman winners) require a bit more protection than others.
 
kmoose

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NDWorld247 said:
Tebow had security and it was provided by the University of Florida. Believe me or not. I don't care either way because I speak the truth whether you wish to accept that or not. And, he had security because it's needed in this day and age for underclassmen who win the Heisman and have to go back to school. It is a school's responsibility to protect their student-athletes and some (i.e. Heisman winners) require a bit more protection than others.
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Protect them from what, exactly?
 
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ab2cmiller

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At least according to this article, it does sound like security was provided, but it certainly doesn't sound like 24 hour protection, just at athletic related events.
As incidents mount for Jameis Winston, so does concern

Antonor Winston says few have experienced what his son is going through — winning the Heisman and a national championship as a freshman.

He mentions Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel, who was the first player to win the trophy as a freshman when he captured the award in 2012. Manziel, who was drafted No. 22 overall by the Cleveland Browns on Thursday, opted to take all of his classes online in the spring of 2013 after winning the Heisman because the attention became too much.

Florida's Tim Tebow won two national championships and claimed the Heisman between them during his sophomore season.

Both schools provided additional personnel for those quarterbacks at athletics-related events, including going between practice fields and the stadiums, because of crowds and autograph seekers.
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kmoose

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NDWorld247 said:
We live in a messed up world, kmoose. Use your imagination.
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I cannot remember a time, ever, when a returning Heisman Trophy Winner was physically in danger of loss of life or limb, so there's no justification for that being the reason. So I am only left to assume that these "security" people would be there to protect the athlete from making dumb decisions. That is the only scenario that makes any sense to me, whatsoever.

Having said that; is that really what we want? Do we want our greatest athletes to depend on others, to keep them out of trouble? Or do we want them to learn restraint and good judgment on their own?
 
T Town Tommy

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In this world of idoits we inhabit for a short time, there are plenty of reasons why some larger than life football players would need security. We could rail on JW, JFF, Tebow or whoever, but the fact remains the school does have an obligation - to a point - to provide security for their players... and not just Heisman winners.

The whole "secret" stuff about Tebow and his security is entertaining to me. Unless he had a gay boyfriend or was popping the preacher's wife on the side, who really cares? End of the day, some players need that added security - from the idiots in the public... and from themselves. Sadly, it appears JW fits in to both categories.
 
irishff1014

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T Town Tommy said:
In this world of idoits we inhabit for a short time, there are plenty of reasons why some larger than life football players would need security. We could rail on JW, JFF, Tebow or whoever, but the fact remains the school does have an obligation - to a point - to provide security for their players... and not just Heisman winners.

The whole "secret" stuff about Tebow and his security is entertaining to me. Unless he had a gay boyfriend or was popping the preacher's wife on the side, who really cares? End of the day, some players need that added security - from the idiots in the public... and from themselves. Sadly, it appears JW fits in to both categories.
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Safety measures yes.

But this has nothing to do with that. His dad wants a baby-sitter for his irrepressible kid.
 
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philipm31

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NDWorld247 said:
I'm just not comfortable with sharing. I sent gkirish a PM. Maybe he can chime in and let you know if it's legit or not. Or, PM me if your curiosity gets the best of you and decide for yourself. It's not necessarily something I want out there.

Why is it so hard to believe that Tebow had security at UF?
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Why is it so hard to actually validate it, then?

I am sure he had security from the school AT ATHLETIC EVENTS (as is common policy for student athletes), but to think that he had it EVERYWHERE he went on campus, that he had 24/7 school-supplied security is complete BS. IF he had 24/7 security, it was likely paid for by his father, something that Winston's father should be doing for his son, if he is so concerned.

And I stand by my statement that he is not more important than EVERYONE on campus and does NOT and should not EVER be given 24/7 protection, unless he is the scion of the POTUS, which he is not.

You know that the request is total BS and deserves to be shot down because it is beyond ludicrous.
 
GoldenToTheGrave

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kmoose said:
Protect them from what, exactly?
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Fact is Florida State has the millions of dollars and the reputation of the school on the line with Winston. They're pretty stupid not to "protect their investment", from whatever that happens to be. This is why, for example, the NFL has the free limo service 24 hours a day to stop the players from drunk driving. Providing security is a lot cheaper than having to suspend Winston for a year.
 
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philipm31

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kmoose said:
I cannot remember a time, ever, when a returning Heisman Trophy Winner was physically in danger of loss of life or limb, so there's no justification for that being the reason. So I am only left to assume that these "security" people would be there to protect the athlete from making dumb decisions. That is the only scenario that makes any sense to me, whatsoever.

Having said that; is that really what we want? Do we want our greatest athletes to depend on others, to keep them out of trouble? Or do we want them to learn restraint and good judgment on their own?
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Exactly the point that I think everyone has been making, that Winston still has never actually had to deal with the consequences of his actions, because he has so many enablers already and now his father (his greatest enabler it seems) wants him treated as being the most important on campus, which he is not.
 
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philipm31

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GoldenToTheGrave said:
Fact is Florida State has the millions of dollars and the reputation of the school on the line with Winston. They're pretty stupid not to "protect their investment", from whatever that happens to be. This is why, for example, the NFL has the free limo service 24 hours a day to stop the players from drunk driving. Providing security is a lot cheaper than having to suspend Winston for a year.
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So they did their obligation by helping cover up the "alleged" rape, then, right?

And so just Winston deserves Secret Service-level protection, out of ALL the athletes on every NCAA campus?

I do not buy that, at all. Heisman Trophy winners have more to fear from agents than any one fan.
 
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philipm31

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BTW, how much is a full athletic scholarship worth at FSU? $40K, with free rent, lodging, food, bills, etc? How much more free stuff does Winston need?

Beyond shellfish, that is?
 
GoldenToTheGrave

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philipm31 said:
So they did their obligation by helping cover up the "alleged" rape, then, right?

And so just Winston deserves Secret Service-level protection, out of ALL the athletes on every NCAA campus?

I do not buy that, at all. Heisman Trophy winners have more to fear from agents than any one fan.
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I didn't say it was fair, it's just smart for the university.
 
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The "crabs" will haunt Mr. Winston. Stealing "crabs" was incredibly stupid and so unbelievably unnecessary.

I see a very clear demarcation line. Security to protect from physical harm and harassment from overzealous or crazy fans. Yes.

Handlers and baby sitters and body guards to PREVENT a supposed college student-athlete from doing things that diminish his dollar value in the NFL draft - NO.

This shows how low big time semi-pro college football has sunk. Notre Dame has to compete against this crap. I think under Kelly, Swarbrick and Father Jenkins they can do it. But, it won't be easy.
 
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