"ISD Intel"

[koonja]

I'm impressed, but not shocked. After the Army AA game I really thought he was going to be that guy who shows up and has an instant impact... he had flown under the radar to that point, but simply dominated the practices. I ranted pretty loudly about how the services who didn't bump his ranking SIGNIFICANTLY after that showing were just being lazy and how he had gone from "high upside sleeper" to "should be really darn good and if you don't see that you aren't watching."

He catches everything thrown in his direction and is surprisingly athletic. As long as he doesn't get too tall to function, it's easy to see how he can be both a long term star and make an immediate impact. Depending on how his blocking comes along, I expect he could get a lot of red zone work as a true frosh. I'm pumped.

Is he our Eifert this year in terms of we're on the 15 yard line and the entire play is a fade route? Or are they expecting a TE to once again play that role?

 

[Irishman77]

Is he our Eifert this year in terms of we're on the 15 yard line and the entire play is a fade route? Or are they expecting a TE to once again play that role?

Niklas

 

[IrishLax]

Is he our Eifert this year in terms of we're on the 15 yard line and the entire play is a fade route? Or are they expecting a TE to once again play that role?

I think the TEs will be asked to do all the TE stuff, and you're not going to see TEs flexed out as a pure WR (but you'll probably see a second TE in the slot on occasion).

Instead, I would expect someone like Robinson (or Daniel Smith) to be used in that role this year if their blocking is up to snuff. What made that deadly was that Eifert could function as a WR as well as destroy DBs with blocking if we ran to that side.

 

[STLDomer]

Seeing the rotation at Z WR is gonna be fun: Prosise, Carlisle, Folston, Mahone, Smith, Jones, Koyack/Welch/Niklas

 

[dublinirish]

Seeing the rotation at Z WR is gonna be fun: Prosise, Carlisle, Folston, Mahone, Smith, Jones, Koyack/Welch/Niklas

dont sleep on Onwualu brah!

 

[Emcee77]

Latest edition of Intel is solid:

Wow great info! That's chock full of interesting stuff. Thanks Lax!

Most interesting bits for me:

--TJ moving to the slot when Chris Brown is on the field ... great idea. Some people on this board (Wooly, I think?) have been calling for this move for some time. Makes a lot of sense.
-- Tranquill compared to Urlacher ... don't want to get carried away with that comparison (Does he really have THAT much athleticism? Urlacher is 6'4" and north of 255 ... can Tranquill really get that big while maintaining speed?) but it basically makes sense for us to look for former safeties who can put on enough weight to play ILB ... in our system ILBs are basically safeties who play closer to the line of scrimmage. Dan Fox provided the blueprint. He was a really reedy safety coming out of high school -- 6'4", 215ish ... pretty similar to Tranquill. If Kelly asked me (which he never will) I'd say take him.

 

[tussin]

Is there any talk on Will Fuller? I was expecting him to really outshine his star rating (no pun intended) based on his performance in the 7on7 / All-Star circuit last year.

 

[IrishLax]

Wow great info! That's chock full of interesting stuff. Thanks Lax!

Most interesting bits for me:

--TJ moving to the slot when Chris Brown is on the field ... great idea. Some people on this board (Wooly, I think?) have been calling for this move for some time. Makes a lot of sense.
-- Tranquill compared to Urlacher ... don't want to get carried away with that comparison (Does he really have THAT much athleticism? Urlacher is 6'4" and north of 255 ... can Tranquill really get that big while maintaining speed?) but it basically makes sense for us to look for former safeties who can put on enough weight to play ILB ... in our system ILBs are basically safeties who play closer to the line of scrimmage. Dan Fox provided the blueprint. He was a really reedy safety coming out of high school -- 6'4", 215ish ... pretty similar to Tranquill. If Kelly asked me (which he never will) I'd say take him.

One thing that ticks me off is that Sam Hubbard is a legit 6'5" 225ish with no bulking up/serious weight training yet because he was focused on lacrosse...

But our staff dragged their feet on showing interest/evaluating him and he flopped from being a Notre Dame lacrosse commit on a small partial ride to a Buckeye for football only. Can't really blame him. Like Tranquill, he wasn't focused on football until this year and has pretty ridiculous upside as a OLB or ILB. He is legitimately fast and should keep that while getting up to around a lean ~255. I think this is the kind of guy you want to bring in if you're reaching for an elite athlete who can develop into a linebacker.

With that being said, I've always been a huge fan of Tranquill and really hopes he flips. I think he can help out at multiple positions and when you watch him cover in 7on and consider him being able to do that as a linebacker... it's dreamy.

 

[Luckylucci]

One thing that ticks me off is that Sam Hubbard is a legit 6'5" 225ish with no bulking up/serious weight training yet because he was focused on lacrosse...

But our staff dragged their feet on showing interest/evaluating him and he flopped from being a Notre Dame lacrosse commit on a small partial ride to a Buckeye for football only. Can't really blame him. Like Tranquill, he wasn't focused on football until this year and has pretty ridiculous upside as a OLB or ILB. He is legitimately fast and should keep that while getting up to around a lean ~255. I think this is the kind of guy you want to bring in if you're reaching for an elite athlete who can develop into a linebacker.

With that being said, I've always been a huge fan of Tranquill and really hopes he flips. I think he can help out at multiple positions and when you watch him cover in 7on and consider him being able to do that as a linebacker... it's dreamy.

I agree with everything you said. Not getting in on Hubbard for football was a mistake, IMO as well. However, we shouldn't let that stop us from picking another athlete like Tranquill.

 

[irishog77]

All comparisons of Tranquil to Urlacher end....





until he gets a barbed wire tat on his arm.

 

[Emcee77]

One thing that ticks me off is that Sam Hubbard is a legit 6'5" 225ish with no bulking up/serious weight training yet because he was focused on lacrosse...

But our staff dragged their feet on showing interest/evaluating him and he flopped from being a Notre Dame lacrosse commit on a small partial ride to a Buckeye for football only. Can't really blame him. Like Tranquill, he wasn't focused on football until this year and has pretty ridiculous upside as a OLB or ILB. He is legitimately fast and should keep that while getting up to around a lean ~255. I think this is the kind of guy you want to bring in if you're reaching for an elite athlete who can develop into a linebacker.

With that being said, I've always been a huge fan of Tranquill and really hopes he flips. I think he can help out at multiple positions and when you watch him cover in 7on and consider him being able to do that as a linebacker... it's dreamy.

Couldn't agree more. Hubbard would have been a great ILB prospect.

I've comforted myself by speculating that maybe Hubbard, being an Ohio kid, just had a latent desire to play football for the Buckeyes, which he didn't even know about till it became a possibility. I know he was focused on high academics schools originally, but Ohio State football is THE SHOW in Ohio. As an outsider who has spent a lot of time in Ohio (in-laws), I've found that it's really a crazy, overwhelming culture to grow up in, and it's everywhere, like all throughout the state. I'm sure he just got excited about being a part of that. A lot of times when Ohio State offers an Ohio kid for football (as with a lot of state schools), I just don't think there's much anyone else can do. (There was likely some of that going on with Taylor Decker.) Don't know how accurate any of that is as applied to Hubbard specifically ... Lax or others may know more.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

One thing that ticks me off is that Sam Hubbard is a legit 6'5" 225ish with no bulking up/serious weight training yet because he was focused on lacrosse...

Like Tranquill, he wasn't focused on football until this year and has pretty ridiculous upside as a OLB or ILB.

Couldn't agree more. Hubbard would have been a great ILB prospect.

Have we ever brought in an ILB that long and lean? I always thought part of the staff's issue with Hubbard was that he profiled as an OLB for us-- a position at which we're absolutely stacked. If Hubbard had profiled as an ILB, I bet we would have offered.

 

[STLDomer]

The staff just wasn't done evaluating Hubbard.

 

[IrishLax]

The staff just wasn't done evaluating Hubbard.

This is starting to become a "thing" with the staff and I'm not sure whether I like it or not. Fister hates it, which makes me think I should like it by default. But the staff is very methodical with their evaluation of players and seems to really wait to pull the trigger on an offer. Most schools go the opposite route... extending offers early and then turning up the heat as necessary depending on whether or not they want the prospect. This doesn't happen all the time (see: Dawkins, Schutt, etc.) but it happens quite a bit.

We waited on Kyle Bosch, and got in too late. Ended up not being a big deal.
We waited on Marcus Rios, and lost him to UCLA who turned up some pressure. Keiv bailed us out on that misstep.
We waited on Tranquill, and now we're trying to flip him. There's almost no doubt he would be Irish if we offered 10 days earlier.
We waited on Hubbard, while Stanford, Michigan, Ohio State, etc. immediately extended offers after seeing his junior film. We tried to set up a meeting on campus after a couple weeks. He committed to Ohio State on a visit before that, as Meyer pursued vigorously from the onset.
We're waiting on Shaun Crawford, and he's going to commit to Michigan in the meantime.
We waited on Deshone Kizer, and just barely got in the race on time. What if Kyle Allen drags things out another week or two? Scary to think about.

In general, we tend to be slow with the trigger on our offers. I don't know if this is a good plan or not. But so far I can still count recruiting mistakes from this staff on my hands... which is FAR better than previous staffs and the vast majority of schools around the country. So I'll take it.

To Whiskey: that was precisely the problem and why they wanted to get him on campus to evaluate him to see where they thought he could play and if we had a need at that spot. He wasn't a priority, we dragged out feet, and now he is going to OSU. At the end of the day, probably not a big deal unless we start striking out on prospects AND get decommits. So let's cross our fingers that doesn't happen. At least he didn't end up at Stanford where they surely would've used their voodoo magic to ensure he turned into a dominant 6'6" 265 pound freak at some position.

 

[Veer option]

Whose Cheerios did NDLA **** in to get banned again?

 

[PANDFAN]

Whose Cheerios did NDLA **** in to get banned again?

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/leprechaun-lounge/179481-banned-users.html

 

[Irishman77]

.

 

[Emcee77]

Have we ever brought in an ILB that long and lean? I always thought part of the staff's issue with Hubbard was that he profiled as an OLB for us-- a position at which we're absolutely stacked. If Hubbard had profiled as an ILB, I bet we would have offered.

Well, during Kelly's tenure, we haven't brought in any true ILBs besides Jarrett Grace and Deeb ... but yeah, true, at least on this board we were talking about Hubbard as a DOG prospect at that time. I do think he'd be a great ILB though. I know I sound like a broken record, but if you look at Dan Fox's tape, he looked a lot like Hubbard in high school. I think long and lean is fine for an ILB as well as a DOG ... what makes a guy one or the other is whether he has great footwork/agility (ILB) or great speed (DOG). As a lacrosse player, I'm assuming Hubbard must have exceptional footwork.

Jarrett Grace is fairly long and lean, too. He really does remind me of Urlacher. Not overly bulky, but solid and hits like a truck.

 

[Domina Nostra]

As a lacrosse player, I'm assuming Hubbard must have exceptional footwork.

Lacrosse has made excellent strides, don't get me wrong, but the reality is that high D1 football players are generally in a different league of athletism (not stick skills, obvously). One of the reasons lacrosse has been so popular in the NE is that private school kids can excel and compete for scholarships in a much more limited pool of athletes. Schools like Woodberry Forest and Gilman produced excellent lacrosse players for years, but not too many football players. They have recently become football powerhouses by targeting a different calibur of athlete.

My point is, a big, strong, athletic kid like Hubbard is going to be great at lacrosse without necessarily walking away with any fantastic footwork or anything like that. Its kind of like basketball, if a 6'6" 270 pound kid is getting up and down the court, you can assume he is a good athlete, but I don't think you necessarily think he has a leg up on the competition because he slid around in the lane. He probably just pushed kids around!

This is not to say that Hubbard isn't a sick athlete, just that it is no coincidence that he stuck out in lacrosse long before he stuck out in football.

 

[Emcee77]

Lacrosse has made excellent strides, don't get me wrong, but the reality is that high D1 football players are generally in a different league of athletism (not stick skills, obvously). One of the reasons lacrosse has been so popular in the NE is that private school kids can excel and compete for scholarships in a much more limited pool of athletes. Schools like Woodberry Forest and Gilman produced excellent lacrosse players for years, but not too many football players. They have recently become football powerhouses by targeting a different calibur of athlete.

My point is, a big, strong, athletic kid like Hubbard is going to be great at lacrosse without necessarily walking away with any fantastic footwork or anything like that. Its kind of like basketball, if a 6'6" 270 pound kid is getting up and down the court, you can assume he is a good athlete, but I don't think you necessarily think he has a leg up on the competition because he slid around in the lane. He probably just pushed kids around!

This is not to say that Hubbard isn't a sick athlete, just that it is no coincidence that he stuck out in lacrosse long before he stuck out in football.

Ah I see your point. Assuming "exceptional" footwork was definitely going too far. I'll rephrase: I wouldn't be surprised if he has good footwork.

 

[IrishLax]

Lacrosse has made excellent strides, don't get me wrong, but the reality is that high D1 football players are generally in a different league of athletism (not stick skills, obvously).

You'd actually be surprised, Nike just did a version of The Opening called The Ride for lacrosse and you would be shocked at some of the SPARQ numbers lacrosse players put up. A defender coming to ND... who was the SPARQ champion... had a better powerball throw than any football players. Sadly, they did different speed drills (shuttle, 20-yard dash for quickness) so we can't compare there.

In general though... you are completely right. For players in lacrosse you can have a singular good trait and play to that if you must, whereas in football you have to be an all-around dynamite athlete or it just doesn't work. In lacrosse you can be fast OR strong OR tall OR incredibly skilled and it can work out... for example, I'm 5'8" but had track times better than most of our football players... but at 145-150 pounds, I would get broken in half trying to play football.

There are lots of lacrosse players with DI football traits because the sports are so similar... but most of them play football at the next level (Yeatman, Hubbard, Royster, etc. etc. etc. there is a lonnnnng list). But there are definitely guys like Jake Seau, Chris Hawkins, Sergio Perkovic incoming this year to ND all could be playing FBS football if they wanted... Steve Murphy, who just graduated, was 1st team All-State in NY as a dual-threat QB in HS and won a bunch of "best player in the state" awards... so while there's more athleticism on the football field for sure, there is a small percentage of guys playing lacrosse that have that DI football athleticism.

One of the reasons lacrosse has been so popular in the NE is that private school kids can excel and compete for scholarships in a much more limited pool of athletes. Schools like Woodberry Forest and Gilman produced excellent lacrosse players for years, but not too many football players. They have recently become football powerhouses by targeting a different calibur of athlete.

Only correction here is that lacrosse actually has the second smallest matriculation rate from HS to college because of how few programs there thanks to Title IX. The only sport harder to make the jump from HS to college is basketball (basketball is the hardest sport to go from level-to-level because of how few players are needed).

My point is, a big, strong, athletic kid like Hubbard is going to be great at lacrosse without necessarily walking away with any fantastic footwork or anything like that. Its kind of like basketball, if a 6'6" 270 pound kid is getting up and down the court, you can assume he is a good athlete, but I don't think you necessarily think he has a leg up on the competition because he slid around in the lane. He probably just pushed kids around!

Totally, it's always dangerous making assumptions for the reasons you just listed. It's a safe assumption that he is coordinated but the level with which that translates to football is murky at best. What I can tell you is that his coach sent his tape to every school he was interested in (Stanford, Michigan, Ohio State, etc.) and every single one offered immediately but Notre Dame. So a lot of coaches definitely think he can play some football... at what position, I'm not sure. He's also a great student. Soooo.... oh well. At least he's not going to Stanford!

 

[Domina Nostra]

You'd actually be surprised, Nike just did a version of The Opening called The Ride for lacrosse and you would be shocked at some of the SPARQ numbers lacrosse players put up. A defender coming to ND... who was the SPARQ champion... had a better powerball throw than any football players. Sadly, they did different speed drills (shuttle, 20-yard dash for quickness) so we can't compare there.

In general though... you are completely right. For players in lacrosse you can have a singular good trait and play to that if you must, whereas in football you have to be an all-around dynamite athlete or it just doesn't work. In lacrosse you can be fast OR strong OR tall OR incredibly skilled and it can work out... for example, I'm 5'8" but had track times better than most of our football players... but at 145-150 pounds, I would get broken in half trying to play football.

There are lots of lacrosse players with DI football traits because the sports are so similar... but most of them play football at the next level (Yeatman, Hubbard, Royster, etc. etc. etc. there is a lonnnnng list). But there are definitely guys like Jake Seau, Chris Hawkins, Sergio Perkovic incoming this year to ND all could be playing FBS football if they wanted... Steve Murphy, who just graduated, was 1st team All-State in NY as a dual-threat QB in HS and won a bunch of "best player in the state" awards... so while there's more athleticism on the football field for sure, there is a small percentage of guys playing lacrosse that have that DI football athleticism.



Only correction here is that lacrosse actually has the second smallest matriculation rate from HS to college because of how few programs there thanks to Title IX. The only sport harder to make the jump from HS to college is basketball (basketball is the hardest sport to go from level-to-level because of how few players are needed).



Totally, it's always dangerous making assumptions for the reasons you just listed. It's a safe assumption that he is coordinated but the level with which that translates to football is murky at best. What I can tell you is that his coach sent his tape to every school he was interested in (Stanford, Michigan, Ohio State, etc.) and every single one offered immediately but Notre Dame. So a lot of coaches definitely think he can play some football... at what position, I'm not sure. He's also a great student. Soooo.... oh well. At least he's not going to Stanford!

Great points. I know there are a lot of great athletes playing college lacrosse these days, but the kids playing BCS-level college football are just freaks.

Question: do lacrosse players get full rides?

 

[ThePiombino]

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/leprechaun-lounge/179481-banned-users.html

Am I missing something or does this not answer whose Cheerios LA pissed in? lol

 

[IrishLax]

Great points. I know there are a lot of great athletes playing college lacrosse these days, but the kids playing BCS-level college football are just freaks.

Question: do lacrosse players get full rides?

No, and this is the main reason (along with NFL dreams) that most players drop lacrosse for football in college. Per NCAA rules, you can only give a max of around a dozen scholarships a year... for a team of 40 players. All sports except football, basketball, and hockey have it bad... but lacrosse really gets the short end of the stick for lots of reasons, chief of which being its "newness" nationally and Title IX. It's really ironic that lacrosse has the most attended championship/playoffs besides March Madness but has the least functional pro league and institutional financial support.

 

[Veer option]

Am I missing something or does this not answer whose Cheerios LA pissed in? lol

It didnt.

 

[PANDFAN]

Am I missing something or does this not answer whose Cheerios LA pissed in? lol

It didnt.

click the link and read...it does

 

[pumpdog20]

No, and this is the main reason (along with NFL dreams) that most players drop lacrosse for football in college. Per NCAA rules, you can only give a max of around a dozen scholarships a year... for a team of 40 players. All sports except football, basketball, and hockey have it bad... but lacrosse really gets the short end of the stick for lots of reasons, chief of which being its "newness" nationally and Title IX. It's really ironic that lacrosse has the most attended championship/playoffs besides March Madness but has the least functional pro league and institutional financial support.

That's a dirty word in the wrestling world. Wrestling only gets 9.9 total, and the starting lineup is 10.

 

[ThePiombino]

click the link and read...it does

I did, and it didn't.

 

[IrishinTN]

LA pissed in Bogs cheerios which caused a bigger pissing match which went on to cause a bigger pissing match in which both Bogs and LA were told to lay off on a voluntary basis by self-imposed banishment. However, neither abided by the rues and thus are subject to temporary ban until bye week.

 

[NDinFL]

No, and this is the main reason (along with NFL dreams) that most players drop lacrosse for football in college. Per NCAA rules, you can only give a max of around a dozen scholarships a year... for a team of 40 players. All sports except football, basketball, and hockey have it bad... but lacrosse really gets the short end of the stick for lots of reasons, chief of which being its "newness" nationally and Title IX. It's really ironic that lacrosse has the most attended championship/playoffs besides March Madness but has the least functional pro league and institutional financial support.

Oh you're so punny