Is ND really pursuing National Championships?

[Irish Knuckles]

Really? I know MF went to visit him a few times but assumed it was more out of respect than anything else. I defer to you though as this is news to me.

apparently they talk all the time.

 

[RDU Irish]

If you have to ask the question, you already know the answer is no.

 

[NDRock]

I feel like we care more than 20 years ago. Seemed like we were so far behind by the time Weis came around. He got us recruiting big time players again and Kelly helped us catch up in other areas. Getting over the hump may prove a never ending battle or Carr (or some other qb) might be an absolute stud and takes us to a championship.

 

[Giddyup]

Yes they are investing in a championship. They made Golden, Denbrock and Rudolph the highest paid at their positions. For some reason they just aren’t making a move or at least sprinkling in guys who can throw.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Yes ND will win another one eventually, and I believe if Freeman can figure out some of the on the field issues he will be the coach to do it. After the NIU game I questioned if he’s the guy for the job but I reminded myself a few days after that he’s still a first time head coach in only his third year in the position at about the biggest stage you can get. He’s gonna figure it out and I think he truly loves ND.

Also has anyone noticed since the NIU game how much Freeman’s tone has changed? He’s definitely keeping himself at more of distance and not nearly as crowd pleasing

 

[stlnd01]

Yes they are investing in a championship. They made Golden, Denbrock and Rudolph the highest paid at their positions. For some reason they just aren’t making a move or at least sprinkling in guys who can throw.

FWIW each of the last two seasons we have gone out and gotten the best/most sought-after QB in the transfer portal. At least among those who are available to us (so, alas, not Cam Ward).
We’re making moves. Just so far they haven’t turned out to be the *right* moves.

 

[Blazers46]

ND hired a first time head coach. They either arent serious or they don’t know better enough to be serious.

 

[Sea Turtle]

ND hired a first time head coach. They either arent serious or they don’t know better enough to be serious.

That's my thing. This isn't Kirby Smart, who was Sabans DC for several years.

 

[ulukinatme]

ND hired a first time head coach. They either arent serious or they don’t know better enough to be serious.

I thought we learned that lesson after Weis

 

[stlnd01]

That's my thing. This isn't Kirby Smart, who was Sabans DC for several years.

Or Ryan Day, or Dan Lanning, or Lincoln Riley when Oklahoma hired him. We definitely should have hired Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell. Then we'd be serious.

 

[drayer54]

Yes

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Notre Dame Football has been fighting an uphill battle with the University ever since Lou left. Incremental positive changes with Weis, Kelly, and now Freeman have surely helped close the gap. But imagine where ND could be if it never walked through the doors of ignoring football in favor of academic superiority. They could've had both and should've always strived to prove both can be achieved. It also happened during an absolute boom in the sport. Imagine being part of a community/culture that still relies on snail mail, while the rest of the world is connected via the internet and apps. It's frustrating. But all it takes is for the pieces to continue to align and the floodgates will open. ND really just needs to hit at QB one time, imo. The rest seems to be in place to make a run.

 

[RDU Irish]

QB needs a Nabors/Williams/Chase type of WR paired with them. I don't see ND getting it done in the straight NIL world assuming any level of classwork is still required. What are we going to do, go buy the top QB/WR pair for one semester? Our top QBs have been Sam Hartman and Riley Leonard - why do we think ND will do what it takes to win the next Cam Newton sweepstakes?

And that assumes we will know what to do with them once they get here.

 

[Giddyup]

We have been doing great EXCEPT we lost to NIU with a qb in the system for the first time and who can’t throw real well. Hopefully in the future we grow qb’s who practice multiple years in the Denbrock system. That should help.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Are they pursuing championships? Yes
Are they doing it well? No

 

[NDRock]

Or Ryan Day, or Dan Lanning, or Lincoln Riley when Oklahoma hired him. We definitely should have hired Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell. Then we'd be serious.

IMO, you can hire a first time HC when they’re taking over a stable program. All of those situations (and Freeman at ND) had good programs where the previous HC left on their own for various reasons. None were fired and none of those programs needed a rebuild.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Or Ryan Day, or Dan Lanning, or Lincoln Riley when Oklahoma hired him. We definitely should have hired Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell. Then we'd be serious.

Didn't Notre Dame try to hire Bob Stoops three times? I know it was at least two. The time they ended up with Weis and Kelly. I believe the first attempt ended up with Willingham. I think that displays some level of seriousness. He's from Ohio, Catholic, had won an NC. Checked a lot of boxes. He was always the guy I wanted first each time the job came open. As a fan, I was pro Stoops in 2004 before Meyer.

I believe Fickell wanted to coach Cincinnati in the playoff and that ultimately ended up being a deal breaker? For me, Fickell was the guy I'd had at the top of my list as an ND fan. I honestly feel like he got a raw deal from tOSU as the interim HC during the tattoo scandal when he filled in between Sweater vest and Pope Ohio. Then he became Pope Ohio's whipping boy after he stayed on staff. (Had Vrabel actually strangled Urban Meyer, I would have rallied around a Federal pardon). I think it showed some character if he really did tell Jack he wanted to coach UC before he took the ND job. Knowing what I know of Fick, that's probably how it went down.

If that's indeed how it all happened, or regardless of that, sometimes the timing doesn't quite work out. Hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear he's having some struggles in Madison now. I don't know if he'd be having equal or worse struggles at ND compared to Freeman, but Fickell is obviously more seasoned since he'd been an HC as Freeman had not.

My assumption on Matt Campbell is he's either had opportunities and has decided to stay put, which is totally fine by me, or he hasn't really had any opportunities at all that were legit and football people know what they know about him. His best season at Iowa State was in the midst of the first global pandemic in a century. He has enough 8-5 seasons that lead me to believe he's a hard pass.

I think hiring Fickell could have been considered "serious." Matt Campbell, I'm not entirely sure, but I see your point as it relates to HC experience.

 

[Katzenboyer]

This goes beyond all of that. We don’t have a head coach with the mindset to win a national championship. Look at who they accepted in the portal. Riley, Oben and this punter.

I think most of us knew this would never happen again but we were trying to be hopeful.

This is revisionist history. Everybody, and I mean everybody, was after Riley Leonard. Feldman ranked him as the #11 transfer prospect available. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5714910/2024/08/23/college-footbal-transfer-portal-rankings/

 

[BleedBlueGold]

QB needs a Nabors/Williams/Chase type of WR paired with them. I don't see ND getting it done in the straight NIL world assuming any level of classwork is still required. What are we going to do, go buy the top QB/WR pair for one semester? Our top QBs have been Sam Hartman and Riley Leonard - why do we think ND will do what it takes to win the next Cam Newton sweepstakes?

And that assumes we will know what to do with them once they get here.

If Hartman or Leonard threw the ball like Coan, I think people would have a different opinion of the transfer QBs. It's been "Classic ND" to have a good QB when the OL or WR weren't good. Or the defense wasn't good. etc. ND has had pieces in the past, but they never aligned in such a way that it occurred in the same season.

And they don't need to win the next Cam sweepstakes. They've been recruiting at a high level. They need to continue to develop these guys and then actually give them a chance when they prove they're ready. Give CJ Carr an elite OL, elite defense, and great skill talent and I think the sky is the limit w/ this staff.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Clemson won championships in 2016 and 2018. Their composite recruiting rankings for the relevant years are as follows:

2013 - #14
2014 - #16
2015 - #9
2016 - #11
2017 #16

These are ND type classes. Clemson did not recruit like UGA or Bama or OSU to win championships. They signed a lot of 4 stars and scouted well to hit on underrated recruits. They also signed difference-maker QBs.

The postscript to this post is the key factor here. They hit on generational college QBs in Watson and Lawrence, which raised their ceiling to the national championship level.

Having so much staff continuity was also incredibly important for them.

 

[Katzenboyer]

ND hired a first time head coach. They either arent serious or they don’t know better enough to be serious.

Now do Georgia/Kirby Smart.

I get people are disappointed right now, but good heavens let's all take a step back off the ledge.

 

[stlnd01]

IMO, you can hire a first time HC when they’re taking over a stable program. All of those situations (and Freeman at ND) had good programs where the previous HC left on their own for various reasons. None were fired and none of those programs needed a rebuild.

Exactly. One can certainly debate whether Notre Dame is a job for a first-time head coach, but it's not meaningfully different in that regard than Ohio State or Georgia or Oklahoma. And no one would dispute that Ohio State and Georgia and Oklahoma are "serious."

 

[stlnd01]

Didn't Notre Dame try to hire Bob Stoops three times? I know it was at least two. The time they ended up with Weis and Kelly. I believe the first attempt ended up with Willingham. I think that displays some level of seriousness. He's from Ohio, Catholic, had won an NC. Checked a lot of boxes. He was always the guy I wanted first each time the job came open. As a fan, I was pro Stoops in 2004 before Meyer.

I believe Fickell wanted to coach Cincinnati in the playoff and that ultimately ended up being a deal breaker? For me, Fickell was the guy I'd had at the top of my list as an ND fan. I honestly feel like he got a raw deal from tOSU as the interim HC during the tattoo scandal when he filled in between Sweater vest and Pope Ohio. Then he became Pope Ohio's whipping boy after he stayed on staff. (Had Vrabel actually strangled Urban Meyer, I would have rallied around a Federal pardon). I think it showed some character if he really did tell Jack he wanted to coach UC before he took the ND job. Knowing what I know of Fick, that's probably how it went down.

If that's indeed how it all happened, or regardless of that, sometimes the timing doesn't quite work out. Hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear he's having some struggles in Madison now. I don't know if he'd be having equal or worse struggles at ND compared to Freeman, but Fickell is obviously more seasoned since he'd been an HC as Freeman had not.

My assumption on Matt Campbell is he's either had opportunities and has decided to stay put, which is totally fine by me, or he hasn't really had any opportunities at all that were legit and football people know what they know about him. His best season at Iowa State was in the midst of the first global pandemic in a century. He has enough 8-5 seasons that lead me to believe he's a hard pass.

I think hiring Fickell could have been considered "serious." Matt Campbell, I'm not entirely sure, but I see your point as it relates to HC experience.

Yeah, certainly the impression at the time was that Fickell wanted to take his team to the CFP and Notre Dame needed to move faster than that. Which is fair on both ends. Either way I agree I'm not sure the outcome over the last three years would be meaningfully different. Matt Campbell is a fine coach for Iowa State. I think Freeman probably has more potential upside than either of them, and that, plus the stability/continuity he offered at the time, is why Swarbrick went with him.

As for prior searches, yeah, I would say firing your first-ever Black head coach, three years in, because you think you can hire Urban Meyer to replace him is a mark of seriousness. Failing to succeed in hiring Urban Meyer and instead settling for a career NFL assistant who you then wildly overpay is a mark of the opposite of seriousness. But, different times back then.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Are they pursuing championships? Yes
Are they doing it well? No

This sums it all up succinctly as far as I'm concerned.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

That's my thing. This isn't Kirby Smart, who was Sabans DC for several years.

Not comparing b/c Smart is obviously proven his HC acumen w/ two natties but hard to imagine now looking back that he lost to Vandy in year on despite inheriting a good program. He also lost to a horrible USCe team that UGA could no longer imagine struggling with.

 

[RDU Irish]

If Hartman or Leonard threw the ball like Coan, I think people would have a different opinion of the transfer QBs. It's been "Classic ND" to have a good QB when the OL or WR weren't good. Or the defense wasn't good. etc. ND has had pieces in the past, but they never aligned in such a way that it occurred in the same season.

And they don't need to win the next Cam sweepstakes. They've been recruiting at a high level. They need to continue to develop these guys and then actually give them a chance when they prove they're ready. Give CJ Carr an elite OL, elite defense, and great skill talent and I think the sky is the limit w/ this staff.

Who are the first round WRs Hartman and Leonard are neglecting exactly? Will Fuller got DeShone Kizer drafted - what elite talent have we rolled through at WR since then?

 

[NDRock]

Exactly. One can certainly debate whether Notre Dame is a job for a first-time head coach, but it's not meaningfully different in that regard than Ohio State or Georgia or Oklahoma. And no one would dispute that Ohio State and Georgia and Oklahoma are "serious."

The one thing I wonder about Freeman is, unlike other coordinators like Smart or Lemming, he never coached at a championship level program. Kirby Smart was able to go to a relatively healthy Georgia program and put them over the top partly because he knew what they were lacking. He had seen what it takes to win championships. Guys like Freeman, Denbrock, Al Golden, have never been at championship teams/programs. They might be great coaches but do they know what's missing to put ND over the top?

It's why I really wouldn't want a Matt Campbell type to be hired if we end up moving on from Freeman in the next couple of years. He'd win a bunch of games but I doubt he'd lead us to a championship. I've also seen the flip side where a guy like Jeremy Pruitt went to Tennessee after having an entire career at places where he always had a distinct talent advantage (Bama, Georgia, and a NC season at FSU) and had no idea how to build a program or do more with less.

 

[Giddyup]

We won’t even know if there’s elite wr talent this year. Got to get a target to perform.

 

[IrishinSyria]

The program feels like it's moving in the right direction. I can't remember a time since the mid 90s when we've been this deep. Other teams have arguably been better, but they usually felt like they were an injury or two away from falling apart and didn't have the depth to go a full 60 against a truly elite team (2012 being a glaring example).

ND's never going to be able to field an Alabama in Saban's prime caliber roster, so we're never going to have a team that should win the natty. Could win is the goal. And I think we're a few pieces away from the could win tier right now, and might have the material inhouse to get there this year.

 

[LifelongFan]

Or Ryan Day, or Dan Lanning, or Lincoln Riley when Oklahoma hired him. We definitely should have hired Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell. Then we'd be serious.

Fickell stinks as he's proven every week since he joined a P4 team.