Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[NDRock]

Just dropping in to say that we have lost 3 of 4 games in the closing minute by an average of 3.33 points.

Reminds me of 09' with Weis. We never lost by more than 7 and our avg. defeat was by 4.66 points. Our record still said 6-6, we still fired Weis.

 

[Bishop2b5]

20+ turnovers by one guy, and ppl want to blame the coach...yea, that makes sense

Who signed that player with 20+ turnovers? Who made him the starter? Who coached him? Who hired the assistants who coach him? Who runs the schemes and calls the plays where he turns the ball over so often? Who hasn't found a way to correct the turnovers? So yeah, you DO blame the HC.

That and all the other things such as not enough depth to account for the injuries that all teams experience over the course of a season, lack of execution, lack of raw physicality, poor fundamentals such as tackling, consistently missing assignments, etc.... yeah, those ARE the HC's fault, whether it's Kelly, Saban, Urban, or any other HC. The HC is ultimately responsible for all those things: evaluating the recruits you sign, hiring the assistants who develop them, setting the tone for the team, setting expectations and seeing that they get met, seeing that you have enough depth to overcome the injuries and loss of players that all programs deal with, making personnel decisions about who plays, having the right game plan, executing the right plan throughout the game and managing the clock (or having the right coordinators to do so), and having players who execute at a high level on a consistent basis.

If the HC isn't ultimately responsible for all those things, who is??? It's his job to do all those things or have the RIGHT assistants who will do all those things. If those things don't get done, it's on HIM. He either doesn't know how, isn't working hard enough or smart enough to get it done, or isn't hiring the right staff to do and teach those things, isn't teaching or motivating his players correctly, or isn't signing the right players. In the end, it's the HC's responsibility to get it done or take the blame.

 

[NCND]

That and all the other things such as not enough depth to account for the injuries that all teams experience over the course of a season, lack of execution, lack of raw physicality, poor fundamentals such as tackling, consistently missing assignments, etc.... yeah, those ARE the HC's fault, whether it's Kelly, Saban, Urban, or any other HC. The HC is ultimately responsible for all those things: evaluating the recruits you sign, hiring the assistants who develop them, setting the tone for the team, setting expectations and seeing that they get met, seeing that you have enough depth to overcome the injuries and loss of players that all programs deal with, making personnel decisions about who plays, having the right game plan, executing the right plan throughout the game and managing the clock (or having the right coordinators to do so), and having players who execute at a high level on a consistent basis.

If the HC isn't ultimately responsible for all those things, who is??? It's his job to do all those things or have the RIGHT assistants who will do all those things. If those things don't get done, it's on HIM. He either doesn't know how, isn't working hard enough or smart enough to get it done, or isn't hiring the right staff to do and teach those things, isn't teaching or motivating his players correctly, or isn't signing the right players. In the end, it's the HC's responsibility to get it done or take the blame.

Agree and great post.

 

[NDRock]

Who signed that player with 20+ turnovers? Who made him the starter? Who coached him? Who hired the assistants who coach him? Who runs the schemes and calls the plays where he turns the ball over so often? Who hasn't found a way to correct the turnovers? So yeah, you DO blame the HC.

That and all the other things such as not enough depth to account for the injuries that all teams experience over the course of a season, lack of execution, lack of raw physicality, poor fundamentals such as tackling, consistently missing assignments, etc.... yeah, those ARE the HC's fault, whether it's Kelly, Saban, Urban, or any other HC. The HC is ultimately responsible for all those things: evaluating the recruits you sign, hiring the assistants who develop them, setting the tone for the team, setting expectations and seeing that they get met, seeing that you have enough depth to overcome the injuries and loss of players that all programs deal with, making personnel decisions about who plays, having the right game plan, executing the right plan throughout the game and managing the clock (or having the right coordinators to do so), and having players who execute at a high level on a consistent basis.

If the HC isn't ultimately responsible for all those things, who is??? It's his job to do all those things or have the RIGHT assistants who will do all those things. If those things don't get done, it's on HIM. He either doesn't know how, isn't working hard enough or smart enough to get it done, or isn't hiring the right staff to do and teach those things, isn't teaching or motivating his players correctly, or isn't signing the right players. In the end, it's the HC's responsibility to get it done or take the blame.

Well said and the great part of a coach's fifth year is the excuses should be over. It's now fully his program, for better or for worse.

 

[Grahambo]

Well said and the great part of a coach's fifth year is the excuses should be over. It's now fully his program, for better or for worse.

Yup. Sucks for BK that he hasn't turned ND into Alabama on the field after having to turn the program around that's sucked for the better part of 20 years.

 

[TDHeysus]

Who signed that player with 20+ turnovers? Who made him the starter? Who coached him? Who hired the assistants who coach him? Who runs the schemes and calls the plays where he turns the ball over so often? Who hasn't found a way to correct the turnovers? So yeah, you DO blame the HC.

That and all the other things such as not enough depth to account for the injuries that all teams experience over the course of a season, lack of execution, lack of raw physicality, poor fundamentals such as tackling, consistently missing assignments, etc.... yeah, those ARE the HC's fault, whether it's Kelly, Saban, Urban, or any other HC. The HC is ultimately responsible for all those things: evaluating the recruits you sign, hiring the assistants who develop them, setting the tone for the team, setting expectations and seeing that they get met, seeing that you have enough depth to overcome the injuries and loss of players that all programs deal with, making personnel decisions about who plays, having the right game plan, executing the right plan throughout the game and managing the clock (or having the right coordinators to do so), and having players who execute at a high level on a consistent basis.

If the HC isn't ultimately responsible for all those things, who is??? It's his job to do all those things or have the RIGHT assistants who will do all those things. If those things don't get done, it's on HIM. He either doesn't know how, isn't working hard enough or smart enough to get it done, or isn't hiring the right staff to do and teach those things, isn't teaching or motivating his players correctly, or isn't signing the right players. In the end, it's the HC's responsibility to get it done or take the blame.

..... if you don't(see it), then no 'back and forth' post bickering about this and that is ever going to make you see it. your blind with butthurtness and you just cant see it.'

.

 

[NDRock]

Yup. Sucks for BK that he hasn't turned ND into Alabama on the field after having to turn the program around that's sucked for the better part of 20 years.

Yeah because that's what I said. I like BK and think we'll have a good year next year (10-2 or so) but the excuse making gets ridiculous. He's the HC, he gets paid millions of dollars. He should not be above criticism.

 

[bkess8]

I like BK and think we'll have a good year next year (10-2 or so) but the excuse making gets ridiculous.

Can we stop with the next year shit and worry about this year. I am getting tired of "NEXT YEAR"!

 

[NDRock]

Can we stop with the next year shit and worry about this year. I am getting tired of "NEXT YEAR"!

There's nothing to worry about this year, we suck. If you want to worry about something, worry that we'll suck again next year and having these same conversations.

 

[BeatSC]

Yes Kelly could own it better than he has so far. Other than I think two games Navy loss with Dayne in year one and Bama in 2012 Kelly has had us in every game down to the wire. We've won some and lost some. Some of these are on Kelly but he has put us in a place to win. Unlike other schools ND May be our opponents biggest game of the year and most of the time we see the best they have to offer. That is tough to get 20 year old kids up for week after week.

I think holding onto Golsen at QB all year has been a mistake. His skills are great but his continued avoidable mistakes have been inexcusable. Between early departures for the NFL and a crazy number of injuries it is surprising we are in position to win games. Hard to see a glass as half full but our expectations out of true or even redshirt freshman needs to be realistic. We have some studs who are developing out there and will be losing some seniors who have been part of Kelly's favorites that we are better without (Cam and Collinsworth). Losing Springman, Grace, Ishaq, while others are getting nicked up was tough to swallow. The losses can be summed up on Golsen and Brindza not playing up to their expectations and we have the one screw job loss on the road.

Offensive and defensive scheme need some help. Run first, snap off center, think of using a FB or Latua more, consider the wildcat. Kelly has put us in a position to win. Remember he has politician in his blood and taking responsibility and straight talk instead of double talk not in the DNA. If Kelly had more luck with the refs, the ball bouncing his way, standards that don't expel players all year for things other schools don't monitor and the top talent that he has had a hand in developing leaving early he would have had 10 wins every season easy including thus one.

Normally I'm one of the more angry/negative fans on this board but it's a game and I've taken a step back for the sake of my blood pressure, normally 120/80 during the games 170/110 and that's with a pill. Not worth dying over.

Happy Thanksgiving ND fans, hold up your heads and be proud we graduate good men, with real degrees and set them up for life. Can other schools really say that about their programs? It's a business for most of them plain and simple.

Please Beat SC and I'll be a happy man.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Can we stop with the next year shit and worry about this year. I am getting tired of "NEXT YEAR"!

This year is over.

 

[Catholics_Rule]

It's a valid question, but IMO the answer lies within. We all seem to have different expectations on this board.

I do know this: I'm absolutely sick and tired of the jock sniffers here that coddle this program, and attack people critical of it. If you aren't a complete jerk about it, I see no reason why a poster shouldn't be able to express frustration/disappointment with coaches, players, etc.

Agreed.

 

[GoldenDome]

Agreed.

Double agree.

 

[koonja]

It's a valid question, but IMO the answer lies within. We all seem to have different expectations on this board.

I do know this: I'm absolutely sick and tired of the jock sniffers here that coddle this program, and attack people critical of it. If you aren't a complete jerk about it, I see no reason why a poster shouldn't be able to express frustration/disappointment with coaches, players, etc.

Agree. It's always some tired ass excuse. Win or get the fuck out.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Double agree.

4th. Reps.

 

[pkt77242]

Yup. Sucks for BK that he hasn't turned ND into Alabama on the field after having to turn the program around that's sucked for the better part of 20 years.

Really? Alabama wasn't any better before Saban got there. Lets start in 1997 and go over their records

4-7
7-5
10-3
3-8
7-5
10-3
4-9
6-6
10-2
6-7

That looks a lot like how ND was before Kelly and in fact was probably worse (Davie had 2 9-3 seasons, Willingham had a 10-3, and Weiss had a 9-3 and 10-3 season). I will be the first to admit that Alabama has tons of advantages (recruiting, roster management, class work is easier) etc. But don't pretend that Alabama didn't go through a similar drought before Saban arrived.

 

[wizards8507]

This question is a bit ridiculous and takes away from what could be a substantive discussion otherwise. Obviously Kelly is a "good" coach. The relevant questions are whether he's a "great" coach, and if not, whether a "good" coach is the best that Notre Dame should reasonably expect.

 

[koonja]

I've been all in on Kelly, but I'm starting to change my stance.

The passing of responsibility, the anti-emotional culture of the team, the benching of more talented players that need development in lieu of slow players who make even more mistakes than the aforementioned ones, etc.

Football does not look fun under Kelly. This is a game played by young men in college that want to go into the stadium and play for their coach, their fellow students, their fans. Where is the passion? It looks like a mediocre NFL team, where money is the bottom line. I'm not a fan of the culture I am seeing.

I am not sure he is the one to wake up the echoes.

 

[bkess8]

I've been all in on Kelly, but I'm starting to change my stance.

The passing of responsibility, the anti-emotional culture of the team, the benching of more talented players that need development in lieu of slow players who make even more mistakes than the aforementioned ones, etc.

Football does not look fun under Kelly. This is a game played by young men in college that want to go into the stadium and play for their coach, their fellow students, their fans. Where is the passion? It looks like a mediocre NFL team, where money is the bottom line. I'm not a fan of the culture I am seeing.

I am not sure he is the one to wake up the echoes.

+1 Well said!

 

[kmoose]

I've been all in on Kelly, but I'm starting to change my stance.

The passing of responsibility, the anti-emotional culture of the team, the benching of more talented players that need development in lieu of slow players who make even more mistakes than the aforementioned ones, etc.

Football does not look fun under Kelly. This is a game played by young men in college that want to go into the stadium and play for their coach, their fellow students, their fans. Where is the passion? I'm not a fan of the culture I am seeing. It looks like a mediocre NFL team, where money is the bottom line.

I am not sure he is the one to wake up the echoes.

What could possibly lead you to think that the Head Coach of any DI-A school would NOT start the guys that he thinks give him the best chance to win, unless there were some kind of academic/disciplinary/injury issue?

 

[wizards8507]

I am not sure he is the one to wake up the echoes.

I've asked this in the past. Xs and Os aside, does Kelly "get" Notre Dame? Does he love the university for its own sake? Is he a "Notre Dame man"? Does anyone care?

 

[bkess8]

What could possibly lead you to think that the Head Coach of any DI-A school would NOT start the guys that he thinks give him the best chance to win, unless there were some kind of academic/disciplinary/injury issue?

What makes you defend Kelly so much?

What leads you to believe that he is leading this team in the right direction?

Where is the evidence of positive player development?

Why is there such a lack of emotion by our players on the field?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Let's get rid of Kelly and bring Weis back. Kansas just fired him so he is available.


Sent via tapatalk

 

[kmoose]

What makes you defend Kelly so much?

What leads you to believe that he is leading this team in the right direction?

Where is the evidence of positive player development?

Why is there such a lack of emotion by our players on the field?

I don't "defend Kelly so much". I think, and have stated dozens of times, that there is absolutely some room for criticism of Kelly...

I think Kelly is way too self confident. I don't like all of the gambles he takes. In fact, that was one of my very first observations of him. In his post game presser, after the Tulsa game in 2010, Kelly was asked about why he threw the ball into the end zone (which resulted in an INT) when he could have just kicked a FG to win the game? His response was: (paraphrasing)"That's the way I do things. Get used to it."

I think Kelly's play calling could be better, at times. His situational play calling, I guess you could call it. But I am not going to say that his red zone play calling sucks, or that it cost us the game, in a game where we scored on 4 of 5 trips into the red zone, and we missed a relatively easy FG on that 5th trip.

I think Kelly could be harder on Golson. He never let up on Rees. Although, there are a couple of things to consider here: 1. He was talked to, by the Administration, about restraining his emotions on the sideline. And, 2. He was very clear, back then, that not every QB could handle that kind of treatment. He said, often, that it was effective with Rees and that was why he continued to do it. I don't support Kelly benching Golson simply because some people on IE think that "Zaire couldn't be worse".

What I do take issue with, is the nonsensical, totally emotional criticism of Kelly that has very little, if anything, to do with reality.

 

[bkess8]

I don't "defend Kelly so much". I think, and have stated dozens of times, that there is absolutely some room for criticism of Kelly...

I think Kelly is way too self confident. I don't like all of the gambles he takes. In fact, that was one of my very first observations of him. In his post game presser, after the Tulsa game in 2010, Kelly was asked about why he threw the ball into the end zone (which resulted in an INT) when he could have just kicked a FG to win the game? His response was: (paraphrasing)"That's the way I do things. Get used to it."

I think Kelly's play calling could be better, at times. His situational play calling, I guess you could call it. But I am not going to say that his red zone play calling sucks, or that it cost us the game, in a game where we scored on 4 of 5 trips into the red zone, and we missed a relatively easy FG on that 5th trip.

I think Kelly could be harder on Golson. He never let up on Rees. Although, there are a couple of things to consider here: 1. He was talked to, by the Administration, about restraining his emotions on the sideline. And, 2. He was very clear, back then, that not every QB could handle that kind of treatment. He said, often, that it was effective with Rees and that was why he continued to do it. I don't support Kelly benching Golson simply because some people on IE think that "Zaire couldn't be worse".

What I do take issue with, is the nonsensical, totally emotional criticism of Kelly that has very little, if anything, to do with reality.

Thank you for the honest answers! Helps me understand more of where your coming from in your POVs.

 

[Irish Insanity]

What could possibly lead you to think that the Head Coach of any DI-A school would NOT start the guys that he thinks give him the best chance to win, unless there were some kind of academic/disciplinary/injury issue?

We are all witnessing it.

I've been all in on Kelly, but I'm starting to change my stance.

The passing of responsibility, the anti-emotional culture of the team, the benching of more talented players that need development in lieu of slow players who make even more mistakes than the aforementioned ones, etc.

Football does not look fun under Kelly. This is a game played by young men in college that want to go into the stadium and play for their coach, their fellow students, their fans. Where is the passion? It looks like a mediocre NFL team, where money is the bottom line. I'm not a fan of the culture I am seeing.

I am not sure he is the one to wake up the echoes.

Excellent post.

Especially the part about fun under Kelly. I've thought it for some time. Even when we are winning.

 

[irishff1014]

I have a feeling this is going to be a situation like the Atlanta braves just went through.

 

[kmoose]

I have a feeling this is going to be a situation like the Atlanta braves just went through.

Who is playing the part of John Rocker?

 

[irishff1014]

Who is playing the part of John Rocker?

Not that!

When they rid of Frank wren the GM they realized no one want to work for him. He was a prick behind closed doors when the media wasn't around. And drove good people away from the organization because he was that bad to be around.

I hope this isn't the case with Kelly but i see some similarities in the situations.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Can we stop with the next year shit and worry about this year. I am getting tired of "NEXT YEAR"!

That's probably how it's going to be going forward. The program isn't at the point where it can reload every year.

2010 was building for 2011. Crist being a complete bust changed all of that.

2012 was building for 2013. Golson getting suspended changed all of that.

2014 is building for 2015. Cross your fingers Golson puts renewed concentration on eliminating turnovers this offseason. If that improves as much as his footwork and throwing mechanics have we should finally see this program as full strength offensively. If it doesn't work Kelly may need to find a new job.

 

[IrishinSyria]

That's probably how it's going to be going forward. The program isn't at the point where it can reload every year.

2010 was building for 2011. Crist being a complete bust changed all of that.

2012 was building for 2013. Golson getting suspended changed all of that.

2014 is building for 2015. Cross your fingers Golson puts renewed concentration on eliminating turnovers this offseason. If that improves as much as his footwork and throwing mechanics have we should finally see this program as full strength offensively. If it doesn't work Kelly may need to find a new job.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but even if the team is a complete bust next year on the field, I still think the only reason we fire Kelly is if recruiting breaks down and/or we're getting blown out.

Changing the head ball coach is really traumatic to a program. You're almost guaranteed at least one year of weak recruiting and you also are almost guaranteed to have a whole bunch of players on the roster who don't fit into whatever system the new coach wants to install. I said this when CW was the coach and I'll say the same for BK: barring disaster, I want to see them on a 10 year plan. That's the only way this program can possibly have the stability it needs to be successful over a long term. Judging a coach by any one season (or even a few seasons) is subjecting the program to the whims of probability.

I really don't think ND's program is at the point where people can be demanding playoff appearances every other year or anything like that. I think one playoff appearance every 5 years is a very reasonable goal for the program.