Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[Crazy Balki]

Correct...3 good years at UGA and then #hugefartsoundwithmouth

Actually, that's not what I said at all. When he was in Atlanta, he fielded decent units. Nothing major but still decent, even with the personnel he was given, which wasn't much.

With the Jets, he helped turn that unit into one of the best in the NFL. So I wouldn't say his resume since then is, as you put it, #hugefartsoundwithmouth.

 

[phgreek]

This streak of losses has me wondering this. This is the second game in a row that Kelly was directly responsible for a loss. The way he's brought the program up is good, but to be honest, how much of that is ND and how much of that is Kelly?

His on-field coaching, and especially his playcalling has ranged from generally okay to downright abysmal. Seriously, some of his on-field decisions have reached brainless levels.

If they lose to USC next week, as is expected, does this put Kelly on the hot seat? He's had 5 years to fix this mess, and outside of a miracle 2012 season that ended in calamity, it's been rather underwhelming and this year is probably the worst I've seen. Simply put, 7-5 in year 5 at ND is unacceptable and we are sniffing that.

In addition, this loss clinches the 4th season in 5 years under Kelly with 4 losses or more. Lose next week, and it'll be 3 out of 5 years with 5 losses. That's not the makings of a good coach at ND.

On a side note, what is with the injuries? It seems like under Kelly, ND is constantly one of the most injury-plagued teams.

Yes, he is a good coach. No I don't think there are many better. Yes he is as good as can be expected at ND at the moment.

 

[Spitfire]

Here are some things I just don't get:

- How have we not improved roster wise after our miracle 2012 season? In the National Championship game two years ago and are now relegated to throwing numerous true freshman into starting roles they are ill prepared to fill. There is no way this should be happening. Notre Dame did not cash in on that wave of good fortune in the way of laying the foundation that winning programs need to sustain success. Did we just miss the window? Even at that, most of these freshman replacing people and playing prominent roles are 4 and 5 star guys and are more talented across the board then guys on the rosters of Northwestern and Louisville.

- Just finished watching UCLA wax USC. How is it that some guys like Mora, can come in and take a mediocre football program with a crap roster and turn them around in a very short span of time? Meanwhile, here we are in year 5 still floundering under Kelly to get over 8 wins consistently. It's frustrating, and disappointing. I understand the different academic requirements between the two schools, but that is not the big picture issue here. Kelly has just not gotten the job done. Good, not great coach.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Here are some things I just don't get:

- How have we not improved roster wise after our miracle 2012 season? In the National Championship game two years ago and are now relegated to throwing numerous true freshman into starting roles they are ill prepared to fill. There is no way this should be happening. Notre Dame did not cash in on that wave of good fortune in the way of laying the foundation that winning programs need to sustain success. Did we just miss the window? Even at that, most of these freshman replacing people and playing prominent roles are 4 and 5 star guys and are more talented across the board then guys on the rosters of Northwestern and Louisville.

- Just finished watching UCLA wax USC. How is it that some guys like Mora, can come in and take a mediocre football program with a crap roster and turn them around in a very short span of time? Meanwhile, here we are in year 5 still floundering under Kelly to get over 8 wins consistently. It's frustrating, and disappointing. I understand the different academic requirements between the two schools, but that is not the big picture issue here. Kelly has just not gotten the job done. Good, not great coach.

UCLA did not have a crap roster

 

[Bluto]

Here are some things I just don't get:

- How have we not improved roster wise after our miracle 2012 season? In the National Championship game two years ago and are now relegated to throwing numerous true freshman into starting roles they are ill prepared to fill. There is no way this should be happening. Notre Dame did not cash in on that wave of good fortune in the way of laying the foundation that winning programs need to sustain success. Did we just miss the window? Even at that, most of these freshman replacing people and playing prominent roles are 4 and 5 star guys and are more talented across the board then guys on the rosters of Northwestern and Louisville.

- Just finished watching UCLA wax USC. How is it that some guys like Mora, can come in and take a mediocre football program with a crap roster and turn them around in a very short span of time? Meanwhile, here we are in year 5 still floundering under Kelly to get over 8 wins consistently. It's frustrating, and disappointing. I understand the different academic requirements between the two schools, but that is not the big picture issue here. Kelly has just not gotten the job done. Good, not great coach.

Not sure about UCLA but the importance of JUCO players in terms of rebuilding programs and or filling out rosters can not be understated. ASU for example would be complete garbage without JUCO transfers. Basically you are getting a fully developed four star athlete that you can plug in and play from the word go. If Kelly could do that year in and year out ND would not be facing the depth issues it is right now and would have a stacked roster.

 

[IrishHokie22]

His third string MLB came in, today, and tore it up. The D Line has been decimated by injury, and is still making a decent showing of it. Certainly you don't expect him to have All American caliber players all along his bench?

Martini played very well after coming in. No argument there. However, when your starting MLB is a former walk-on and his two backups are true freshman, I think it's fair to say that he's had a hard time adding solid depth to the position. It would be understandable if it was year one. It's year five.

I don't believe the defensive line made much of a decent showing of it. They got pounded all damn day, and they got pounded by a 3-6 Northwestern team. Louisville's backs combined for 197 yards on 30 carries (over 6.5 YPC). Northwestern, one of the worst offenses in Division 1A, shredded them. Yes, there have been injuries, but one of the reasons why our defense is struggling so badly is because Kelly has done a poor job of adding solid depth across the defensive line, IMO. Most of the guys out there are freshman or weren't very highly recruited (like Utopo, for instance). We would be seeing better production from the defensive linemen if Kelly had done a better job at recruiting the position for the last few years, don't you think?

No, I don't expect All-Americans for backups. I also don't expect Northwestern to run the ball down our damn throats for 60 minutes. Do you?

 

[Spitfire]

UCLA did not have a crap roster

Yeah...they did.

 

[Junkhead]

ND is the pinnacle of a coaching career; not a stepping stone to the NFL or a lateral transfer to another university....

It used to be. It's not the easiest place to coach, by any means. There are precious few who would excel at ND, and right now I don't know who the next guy would be.

 

[GBdomer]

UCLA did not have a crap roster

yes they did

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Did ND have a crap roster? Everyone is saying how Kelly inherited nothing and then praises the seniors on the 2012 team. Keep your excuses straight.

 

[Junkhead]

Point being that Devine had to follow Ara and won a natty of his own.

His lasting achievement came midway through this run, when the Fighting Irish won the 1977 national championship, led by junior quarterback Joe Montana.

The 70's are ancient history. Very little or none of that makes much difference today.

 

[Bluto]

It used to be. It's not the easiest place to coach, by any means. There are precious few who would excel at ND, and right now I don't know who the next guy would be.

Jerry Kill.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Jerry Kill.

His health would keep him from getting the job.

 

[Junkhead]

Kelly has done a lot to get the program modernized. Training table, field turf, etc. We're all pissed now, but big picture I think he has to have results again next year. I just hope this slump doesn't hurt recruiting too much.

 

[Bluto]

Anyhow, here's an example of how important JUCO players can be. Walla instant edge rusher:

Late commitment to UCLA will add pass rush | CollegeFootballTalk

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Kelly has done a lot to get the program modernized. Training table, field turf, etc. We're all pissed now, but big picture I think he has to have results again next year. I just hope this slump doesn't hurt recruiting too much.

Is it a slump or is it being an average team for the better part of two decades? None of these recruits can remember ND being relevant on the national level consistently. Recruiting is going to suffer because of many reasons, and these 4 losses aren't a major one. It's all of the 7-5 and 8-4 seasons we've had in the lifetime of recruits.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Year 5 for a coach who has lost four or more games four of the 5 years he has been at ND. He's good but he will never have ND where the fans want this program to be.

He can walk us to the hill, but can he lead us to the top?

Because fans have unrealistic expectations and don't understand what it takes to truly build a program from the bottom all the way up.

There are better players on the bench than on the field. That's the coaches decision. Running it only 20 times when you're dominating the running game. That's the coaches decision. Refusing to essentially run out the clock for a W, and going for 2 when it's mathematically stupid, that's the coaches decision. There are many more. I know the players bear responsibility too, but BK needs to shoulder his. It's his job to put the players and team on a position to succeed. And he has failed to many times this year.
The best part was his pregame interview on the field he said this week was a week where the players learned to accept responsibility for what they control, yet he refuses to. Practice what you preach. Don't hold others to expectations you don't fulfill yourself.

 

[Junkhead]

Is it a slump or is it being an average team for the better part of two decades? None of these recruits can remember ND being relevant on the national level consistently. Recruiting is going to suffer because of many reasons, and these 4 losses aren't a major one. It's all of the 7-5 and 8-4 seasons we've had in the lifetime of recruits.

Kelly gets no free pass from me. Why are Redfield and shumate riding the bench???? But do you not remember the ass-raping blowouts of the Ty and Weis years? ND has been in all of these games, even with the ridiculous turnovers, injuries, the frozen 5, and a D roster full of underclassmen. Not to mention new coordinators on both sides of the ball. It sucks right now, but it was WAY WAY worse not that long ago. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Here are some things I just don't get:

- How have we not improved roster wise after our miracle 2012 season? In the National Championship game two years ago and are now relegated to throwing numerous true freshman into starting roles they are ill prepared to fill. There is no way this should be happening. Notre Dame did not cash in on that wave of good fortune in the way of laying the foundation that winning programs need to sustain success. Did we just miss the window? Even at that, most of these freshman replacing people and playing prominent roles are 4 and 5 star guys and are more talented across the board then guys on the rosters of Northwestern and Louisville.

- Just finished watching UCLA wax USC. How is it that some guys like Mora, can come in and take a mediocre football program with a crap roster and turn them around in a very short span of time? Meanwhile, here we are in year 5 still floundering under Kelly to get over 8 wins consistently. It's frustrating, and disappointing. I understand the different academic requirements between the two schools, but that is not the big picture issue here. Kelly has just not gotten the job done. Good, not great coach.

Actually, ND has taken advantage of the national title year. The issues lie within the recruiting classes BEFORE that year. 2011 and 2012 have turned out to be absolutely putrid classes, filled with whiffs, transfers and early departures. I think only half of the 2011 and 2012 classes are still on roster. That tells you all you need to know.

UCLA has the advantage of being in a talent rich area, where the weather is always "good". I put parenthesis around good, because honestly, LA summers are absolutely BRUTAL. Though the night life is much more vibrant than that of South Bend, and even USC for that matter. The academic standards are also a lot less stringent.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Did ND have a crap roster? Everyone is saying how Kelly inherited nothing and then praises the seniors on the 2012 team. Keep your excuses straight.

Outside of Te'o, Floyd and Rudolph (who got hurt anyways), Kelly had pretty much nothing to work with. Clausen left, leaving behind a QB that didn't fit the system, and was coming off a major knee injury, and pretty much nothing behind that. Undeveloped offensive players across the board, outside of Floyd. A defense that was, across the board, undisciplined and not in game shape. Not an excuse, that's just reality. Weis did very little to develop the talent he had, outside of QB and the occasional receiver.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Kelly gets no free pass from me. Why are Redfield and shumate riding the bench???? But do you not remember the ass-raping blowouts of the Ty and Weis years? ND has been in all of these games, even with the ridiculous turnovers, injuries, the frozen 5, and a D roster full of underclassmen. Not to mention new coordinators on both sides of the ball. It sucks right now, but it was WAY WAY worse not that long ago. Be careful what you wish for.

That's not the point. The point is to return to prominence and leave all that behind. We won't be able to if we're just putting together consistent 4-5 loss seasons.

 

[Irish_Passion]

First off, I created my username at the beginning of the year when Everett was playing lights out.... That being said, I don't have enough vBucks to change this ****ty name....

I'm not gonna say that BK needs to be fired, cause it might be a little premature given the vast amount things that have happened with players, recruiting, injuries, etc... But.....

BK has NOT been a "great" coach. His so-called offensive genius is seriously flawed. I am no defensive coordinator but I could virtually guarantee that if given a week of time to prep my defense, I would be able to tell my players what play they were going to run, strictly based on formation, at least 75-85% of the time. I have obviously watched every single snap for the past 10 years, and every single snap of BK's career, but if I can do it, then I know for certain experienced DC's can sniff it out much faster.

BK's inexperience with the clock has been putrid at best. Not even mentioning last week, wtf was he thinking calling the TO on 3rd and goal today with 61 seconds on the clock! If they score on third down, they leave at least 50 secs left to louisville with 2 TO's left.... Why not let the clock run to 20 secs or so and then call the TO. Some might say, well what if u get the first down due to PI of holding or some penalty and get 3 additional plays... Who cares, you still have 3 TO's in your pocket!! Obviously it didn't matter cuz they missed the kick, but either way, I would have bet money that Louisville would have driven the ball to at least get a FG attempt with that amount of time left, cause ND's prevent defense is beyond suceptable to 10 yd outs all the way down the field... It's laughable how easy it would be to run a two min offense against this team, no matter who the DC has been....

The bottom line IMO is that it doesn't matter because I think BK is the best we can get/keep anyhow, but he hasnt EVER been an "elite" coach during while at ND and he seriously needs to take a look at his own EGO if he wants to right the ship. He needs to get better, but most of all, "HE" needs to beleive that he needs to be better!

 

[Irish_Passion]

Sorry for double post, I meant my post to be in this thread

 

[HoosierIrish]

Talking about recruiting, I think he is doing a good job especially if what i heard is true. I wanted to bring this up, but wasn't sure when or where too. I don't know what to make of it but, a couple of weeks ago one of Notre Dames current coaches was talking about recruiting (not anywhere in the media, just out and about). He said that it's so hard to get these kids in, and someone made a comment about Stanford. He looked annoyed and said that people don't know this but it's harder for Notre Dame to get Athletes in than it is for Stanford. Then went on to say how he gets sick of people saying " well if Stanford can do it why can't Notre Dame".

I was blown away by this comment. On this site it's always been well if he has an offer from Stanford he can get into Notre Dame for sure. Can anyone else back this up? I can't imagine him just blatantly lying, but it could just be an opinion that is bias.

 

[Ignats]

After having a few hours to think, it really makes a lot of sense. Take a moment to go by the recruiting page and look at our 2010, 2011, and 2012 classes. We have a couple of 5th year seniors, barely anyone standing from 2011 and a couple of contributors from 2012. All of the transfers, de-commits, and discipline issues are coming back to bite us. A team with Tuitt, Niklas, Darby, etc... would have the type of senior leadership that is needed to win games like this.

It sucks now, it really does. I hate that Redfield isn't playing and I hate that this is year 5 and we haven't seen the level of success most of us expect. This will be a much better team when the 2013 and 2014 classes become upperclassmen though, and they'll learn from this season. A season like this is still more successful than 2007 when the "young kids" learned by getting thrown into the fire and squeaking out a couple of wins. People do have a right to be frustrated though and each person has their own way of coping with yet another season ending with a seemingly meaningless bowl game.

 

[stlnd01]

Kelly is a good coach.
He doesn't always get the breaks (no one always get the breaks), and he makes some frustrating decisions both in-game (going for two last week) and in roster management (can someone explain why Collinsworth and Tranquill are out there instead of Redfield and Shumate?).

But his teams don't quit. They don't get blown out either. He doesn't whine about the restrictions of the university, or tolerate cheating. He's a good recruiter. And, overall, top-to-bottom, he's got the program in the best shape it's been in almost 20 years. I'll take him.

 

[stlnd01]

After having a few hours to think, it really makes a lot of sense. Take a moment to go by the recruiting page and look at our 2010, 2011, and 2012 classes. We have a couple of 5th year seniors, barely anyone standing from 2011 and a couple of contributors from 2012. All of the transfers, de-commits, and discipline issues are coming back to bite us. A team with Tuitt, Niklas, Darby, etc... would have the type of senior leadership that is needed to win games like this.

It sucks now, it really does. I hate that Redfield isn't playing and I hate that this is year 5 and we haven't seen the level of success most of us expect. This will be a much better team when the 2013 and 2014 classes become upperclassmen though, and they'll learn from this season./QUOTE]

Yeah. One Foot Down had a pretty good post the other day re: just how pathetic the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes wound up, especially on defense. That's showing up right now. But there's a lot of talented depth in the younger classes. Keep those kids developing, and we'll be just fine.

 

[philipm31]

The 70's are ancient history. Very little or none of that makes much difference today.

So are the Eighties.

The point is that we are stuck talking about the past because we will never return to the ranks of being a perennial national title contender.

 

[philipm31]

He can walk us to the hill, but can he lead us to the top?



There are better players on the bench than on the field. That's the coaches decision. Running it only 20 times when you're dominating the running game. That's the coaches decision. Refusing to essentially run out the clock for a W, and going for 2 when it's mathematically stupid, that's the coaches decision. There are many more. I know the players bear responsibility too, but BK needs to shoulder his. It's his job to put the players and team on a position to succeed. And he has failed to many times this year.
The best part was his pregame interview on the field he said this week was a week where the players learned to accept responsibility for what they control, yet he refuses to. Practice what you preach. Don't hold others to expectations you don't fulfill yourself.

AMEN.

When was the last time that he took the bullet for the team? Honestly, NOBODY needed t o know the excuse you used for not going for 2, that Brindza had lost confidence. First, that is likely utter BS. It was an XPA. He had missed ONE out of his eighty-two attempts, tthe one blocked by NW. It was very unlikely to happen again. He just wanted to throw TWO kids under the bus instead of taking the blame like a real adult.

MULTIPLE examples of that kind of stuff have existed with Kelly and it gets really tiresome.

Grow a spine and take one for the team, "coach".

 

[HoosierMP33]

He can walk us to the hill, but can he lead us to the top?



There are better players on the bench than on the field. That's the coaches decision. Running it only 20 times when you're dominating the running game. That's the coaches decision. Refusing to essentially run out the clock for a W, and going for 2 when it's mathematically stupid, that's the coaches decision. There are many more. I know the players bear responsibility too, but BK needs to shoulder his. It's his job to put the players and team on a position to succeed. And he has failed to many times this year.
The best part was his pregame interview on the field he said this week was a week where the players learned to accept responsibility for what they control, yet he refuses to. Practice what you preach. Don't hold others to expectations you don't fulfill yourself.

Very good point...other than my earlier post about how I call into question BK's love/loyalty to ND and not just that of a big name program that would have hired him, I find this post to be one of more "spot-on" posts in this thread.....In going with your point, I find that the great college coaches are all control freaks, but they also shoulder the blame and take losses personally; not shove it onto their players or avoid their ineptness.... We hear Saban take accountability for when Alabama screws up and very rarely throws a player under the bus for making a bonehead play....can we say the same about BK? He can come across as "well, if they wouldn't have botched this or that or if Person A would have done this, then that makes my play call on that irrelevant." It's almost as if he uses the mistakes the players make all the players fault; while attempting to save his own image and brainiac status....Does he not realize that his players continual boneheaded plays/decisions are a direct reflection of his coaching? Add in that direct reflection to his continual throwing of players under the bus and lack of accepting of responsibility for losses (in which case, is much lower when they lose, then when they win; then the scheming and coaching was a HUGE factor in that win....still don't see how that works one way, but not the other)...but I'm left wondering where his direct short-comings are, since he doesn't get specific about those things, but will when it comes to holders, kickers, and QB's....of which, the only person he'll replace on screw-ups is a holder....far be it to think to pull EG when he is stinking up the field and giving MZ some legit snaps.....I say all this, but I still do believe BK is a good coach....he has won everywhere he's been; including here....yeah, we got our tails kicked by 'Bama, but BK got us there....however, he has also got us here: losses to Northwestern and Louisville....I just want him to accept that reality too; not just how he got us in the NC game where we got spanked....

My question now is this: How many wins (and who must they be against, i.e. USC, Stanford) should we REALISTICALLY expect and hold our coach's accountable for??

My opinion: I firmly believe 10 wins every single year is a realistic expectation....If we recruit as well as we do...If we are as good as we are SUPPOSED to always be....If we have the best coaching....then 10 wins is realistic...so how many years of below 10 wins is acceptable? I'm not calling for BK's firing....just saying, we are not where we are supposed to be....he trashed the Weis regime and culture (which, I thought was classless, btw) and talked about how he knows how to win in the college game, yada yada yada and how he knows how to develop college players, yada yada yada....well, according to my amateur eye and opinions, I see more RE-gression rather than PRO-gression with this team....and THAT, my IE friends is a coaching issue.....yeah, I get the youth, injuries, suspensions....but this is far from the team that beat UM 31-0 or had a primetime dog fight with FSU....Northwestern and Louisville should have been style point games....Arizona St should've shown our toughness and grit in a sleeper away game....we have had our lunch packed for us by all these teams....and that is a combination of all the excuses....AND COACHING....Again, not calling for BK's job....just for him to accept more responsibility and do what he was brought here to do; develop our player's....it seems Pat Fitzgerald's team has grown throughout their season; and our kids have not....yet BK won't acknowledge his role in that.....and that is my gripe....