Immigration

[drayer54]

I would guess the majority or probably all of the people on this board don’t really care about the deaths but it’s political ammo to work with.

This was a discussion I had in MSP last week. It's an interesting point.Talking about how many people have been burned and brutally killed by illegals and it's a shoulder shrug and the lady in the SUV was a heroic martyr. This was before the other guy. It's weird because some of the deaths hit hard and others don't. I know a lot of people who were truly shook by the Charlie Kirk one because of how graphic it was. How innocent he was in the moment and the hate of the shooter.

The one that hit my head harder than any other that I didn't experience in person was Iryna Zarutska. That one wouldn't leave my head for a long time and is even hard just thinking about it now. Every dynamic of the story from how innocent she was, how brutal he was, how pathetic the bystanders were, my genuine anger at the politicians who enabled it, her story from how she got here, that look she gave him in horror after it happened and just the whole scene. Honestly, that is probably the worst one I've ever seen. Just a disgraceful moment for our country.

It's weird because I mean in honesty, I laughed at a Russian guy getting blown up on X this morning and that is also a death. The North Korean sledding in a land mine is pure comedy. But yeah, it's harder to take some views seriously (LifeLong) when they shrug at the deaths of innocent people in the US that were entirely preventable because of ridiculous crime and immigration policies but want us to freak out with them when people who took a lot of risks in these situations happened to die.

 

[Bantry19]

You are 100% correct.

This is not legal observing. This is not protesting. This is not demonstrating. They are organized and trained and trying to get hurt. The "totally" folks on the board refuse to acknowledge the reality of what is happening in MSP.

You know what? Protected speech in the public realm, can be organized. Crazy, I know.

I say this with all sincerity. After your comments about watching people die on X, I think you should take a social media break. That shit will warp your mind.

 

[drayer54]

You know what? Speech in the public realm, protected by the First Amendment, can be organized. Crazy, I know.

Organized is not the point. The tactics that they are employing are being used against the ICE agents are not just "organizing and waving signs"

 

[Bantry19]

Organized is not the point. The tactics that they are employing are being used against the ICE agents are not just "organizing and waving signs"

Blowing whistles? Maybe the Proud Bo…er ICE agents aren’t cut out for the job then.

Just because X guy Recon1_AZ from South Africa says it’s so, doesn’t make it so.

 

[drayer54]

Blowing whistles? Maybe the Proud Bo…er ICE agents aren’t cut out for the job then.

Just because X guy Recon1_AZ from South Africa says it’s so, doesn’t mean it’s so.

Thanks for confirming you aren't serious.

If I'm reading between the lines, I think Walz and Trump made a deal. Minnesota State Police is FINALLY showing up and dealing with some of the rioters and setting barriers. DHS agreed to get some of their people out who are seen as toxic to the locals. Maybe things will improve?

 

[TorontoGold]

This was a discussion I had in MSP last week. It's an interesting point.Talking about how many people have been burned and brutally killed by illegals and it's a shoulder shrug and the lady in the SUV was a heroic martyr. This was before the other guy. It's weird because some of the deaths hit hard and others don't. I know a lot of people who were truly shook by the Charlie Kirk one because of how graphic it was. How innocent he was in the moment and the hate of the shooter.

The one that hit my head harder than any other that I didn't experience in person was Iryna Zarutska. That one wouldn't leave my head for a long time and is even hard just thinking about it now. Every dynamic of the story from how innocent she was, how brutal he was, how pathetic the bystanders were, my genuine anger at the politicians who enabled it, her story from how she got here, that look she gave him in horror after it happened and just the whole scene. Honestly, that is probably the worst one I've ever seen. Just a disgraceful moment for our country.

It's weird because I mean in honesty, I laughed at a Russian guy getting blown up on X this morning and that is also a death. The North Korean sledding in a land mine is pure comedy. But yeah, it's harder to take some views seriously (LifeLong) when they shrug at the deaths of innocent people in the US that were entirely preventable because of ridiculous crime and immigration policies but want us to freak out with them when people who took a lot of risks in these situations happened to die.

Nobody shrugs at those deaths.

People shrug at the opinions of those on the Right because they take a feelings based approach. The average American is a lot more likely to commit crimes than an illegal immigrant. People shrug at the Right because the callous approach taken to try to reach just Obama level deportations is hurting legal Americans. So when people on the Right just use the deaths of a select group of people to push through a sloppy destructive policy - people will appear to shrug because they can clearly see those deaths don't matter to those on the Right.

 

[drayer54]

Speaking of things improving- More of our visiting Columbian and Venezuelan gang members have been picked up.

 

[RDU Irish]

Thanks for confirming you aren't serious.

If I'm reading between the lines, I think Walz and Trump made a deal. Minnesota State Police is FINALLY showing up and dealing with some of the rioters and setting barriers. DHS agreed to get some of their people out who are seen as toxic to the locals. Maybe things will improve?

LOL if you think that is what the loons want.

 

[RDU Irish]

Nobody shrugs at those deaths.

People shrug at the opinions of those on the Right because they take a feelings based approach. The average American is a lot more likely to commit crimes than an illegal immigrant. People shrug at the Right because the callous approach taken to try to reach just Obama level deportations is hurting legal Americans. So when people on the Right just use the deaths of a select group of people to push through a sloppy destructive policy - people will appear to shrug because they can clearly see those deaths don't matter to those on the Right.

Canadian Dollar on queu.

 

[NDWarrior]

IMO, this means nothing and nothing has changed. Trump and the Admin sense a backlash and don't want any McCarthy "have you no decency" moments so they pull back enough for optics and until what has happened blows over.

The same fact is still staring Trump and this admin in the face - Mid-term elections are 9 months away and they are facing Congressional mid term election defeat.

This is not something Trump and the admin plan on letting happen.

The assaults and surges will continue.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Praying for everyone today. Love you all and my Christ speak into your hearts.

 

[Bishop2b5]

You are 100% correct.

This is not legal observing. This is not protesting. This is not demonstrating. They are organized and trained and trying to get hurt. The "totally" folks on the board refuse to acknowledge the reality of what is happening in MSP.

Much of what we've read from the leftists on here the past few days reminds me of reading 1984. It's just saying exactly what they're supposed to say even if it's 100% contradicted by video or any other evidence. They look at video of Good hitting a cop with her car and without hesitation say, "She didn't hit him' and I think they almost believe it. Straight from 1984... that ability to hold two mutually exclusive thoughts at the same time and accept them both: "Of course I saw the video of the guy resisting or the woman hitting the cop. He didn't resist and she didn't hit the cop with her car." For them, the ultimate truth isn't reality or evidence, it's the party line.

 

[Bantry19]

Nobody shrugs at those deaths.

People shrug at the opinions of those on the Right because they take a feelings based approach. The average American is a lot more likely to commit crimes than an illegal immigrant. People shrug at the Right because the callous approach taken to try to reach just Obama level deportations is hurting legal Americans. So when people on the Right just use the deaths of a select group of people to push through a sloppy destructive policy - people will appear to shrug because they can clearly see those deaths don't matter to those on the Right.

I mean, do people on the right shrug when little kids are murdered in their classrooms?

I don’t think so, nor do I take seriously anybody who may think so.

We all recognize there’s a problem. Because we have very different solutions to the problem, doesn’t mean anyone cares less about the problem.

All this demonizing of people to sell clicks…

 

[drayer54]

Nobody shrugs at those deaths.

People shrug at the opinions of those on the Right because they take a feelings based approach. The average American is a lot more likely to commit crimes than an illegal immigrant. People shrug at the Right because the callous approach taken to try to reach just Obama level deportations is hurting legal Americans. So when people on the Right just use the deaths of a select group of people to push through a sloppy destructive policy - people will appear to shrug because they can clearly see those deaths don't matter to those on the Right.

The sloppy policy was opening the floodgates to Venezuelan and Colombian gangs and millions of others with little to no meaningful verification. That was dangerous and just plain stupid. It's weird taking lectures from the let's open the borders up and see what happens crowd. Pretending there was some neat administrative cleanup on the back end, especially in sanctuary cities, was always wishful thinking. We saw the impact when cities were overwhelmed, and we’ve all watched crime statistics get massaged to downplay what people are experiencing on the ground.

I live in what is probably the most affluent zip code in the state, and we’re dealing with organized South American crews targeting homes. That didn’t come out of nowhere. We’ve also seen enforcement priorities flip in ways that pushed trafficking and criminal activity inland instead of stopping it at the border. Calling concerns about this “feelings based” is projection. What people are reacting to is reality, not cable news narratives. Creating martyrs in Minneapolis to turn immigration policy is feelings based.

I don’t want to live in a country where repeated, preventable failures in immigration enforcement, deaths from people who should not be here, people burning in subways, truckers who should not be licensed plowing into teenagers, and whatever else that keep leading to innocent people being killed. Wanting functional borders and competent enforcement shouldn’t be controversial.

 

[Bantry19]

Much of what we've read from the leftists on here the past few days reminds me of reading 1984. It's just saying exactly what they're supposed to say even if it's 100% contradicted by video or any other evidence. They look at video of Good hitting a cop with her car and without hesitation say, "She didn't hit him' and I think they almost believe it. Straight from 1984... that ability to hold two mutually exclusive thoughts at the same time and accept them both: "Of course I saw the video of the guy resisting or the woman hitting the cop. He didn't resist and she didn't hit the cop with her car." For them, the ultimate truth isn't reality or evidence, it's the party line.

Resisting? What was Alex Pretti resisting?

 

[Bishop2b5]

Blowing whistles? Maybe the Proud Bo…er ICE agents aren’t cut out for the job then.

Getting shot? Maybe the Commu... organized protestors aren't cut out for the job then.

See how that works and how stupid your comment was?

 

[Bantry19]

Getting shot? Maybe the Commu... organized protestors aren't cut out for the job then.

See how that works and how stupid your comment was?

Federal agents shooting people is protected by the Constitution?

No, I don’t see how that works…

 

[ozzman]

Resisting? What was Alex Pretti resisting?

It's 100% contradicted by the video. The guy resisted the whole time, pulled his gun, and threatened to shoot 8 ice officers that were on top of him.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Resisting? What was Alex Pretti resisting?

He inserted himself into a situation where he had absolutely no business being, and when agents tried to remove him from it, he pushed one of them. It escalated from there and he scuffled with them. A stupid thing for him to have done on multiple levels. You don't interfere with LE doing their job, you don't insert yourself into a situation that doesn't involve you, and you sure don't push LE and scuffle with them when they try to remove you from that situation. And did all this while carrying a gun.

 

[Bantry19]

It's 100% contradicted by the video. The guy resisted the whole time, pulled his gun, and threatened to shoot 8 ice officers that were on top of him.

What was he resisting? What was he under arrest for??

Was he told he was under arrest? Because a citizen doesn’t have to do shit if they’re not under arrest. Those are rights.

When did he pull his gun? Show me.

When did he threaten to shoot anyone?

Now we’re just making shit up. Bishop this is some 1984 shit.

 

[Bishop2b5]

What was he resisting? What was he under arrest for??

Was he told he was under arrest? Because a citizen doesn’t have to do shit if they’re not under arrest. Those are rights.

When did he pull his gun? Show me.

When did he threaten to shoot anyone?

Now we’re just making shit up. Bishop this is some 1984 shit.

You don't have to be under arrest to be subject to lawful LE orders. If an officer orders you to stay back, move away from a situation, or similar, you're not under arrest, but still have to comply... or you will be arrested. He interfered with them doing their job and when they tried to remove him, he resisted and struggled. He put himself in that situation, not them. As far as I know, he didn't pull his gun. However, having it in such a situation where you're interfering with LE doing its job certainly raises the danger level and puts everyone on edge.

 

[TorontoGold]

The sloppy policy was opening the floodgates to Venezuelan and Colombian gangs and millions of others with little to no meaningful verification. That was dangerous and just plain stupid. It's weird taking lectures from the let's open the borders up and see what happens crowd. Pretending there was some neat administrative cleanup on the back end, especially in sanctuary cities, was always wishful thinking. We saw the impact when cities were overwhelmed, and we’ve all watched crime statistics get massaged to downplay what people are experiencing on the ground.

I live in what is probably the most affluent zip code in the state, and we’re dealing with organized South American crews targeting homes. That didn’t come out of nowhere. We’ve also seen enforcement priorities flip in ways that pushed trafficking and criminal activity inland instead of stopping it at the border. Calling concerns about this “feelings based” is projection. What people are reacting to is reality, not cable news narratives. Creating martyrs in Minneapolis to turn immigration policy is feelings based.

I don’t want to live in a country where repeated, preventable failures in immigration enforcement, deaths from people who should not be here, people burning in subways, truckers who should not be licensed plowing into teenagers, and whatever else that keep leading to innocent people being killed. Wanting functional borders and competent enforcement shouldn’t be controversial.

Like I've said plenty of times - just take the Obama approach then. He was more effective than Trump's first term. I think it would be a >50% position, I would disagree with it but that's because I'm a progressive not a liberal. It's a much better choice than whatever this is.

People are absolutely reacting to cable news narratives. You look at yourself, you're using anecdotes to support your positions. It's an inarguable position, unless I or anyone knows this specific neighborhood no one can disagree with you. If you get bogged down in personal anecdotes your brain will melt. Immigration policy running on emotions and anecdotes is impossible. If you take the homicide rates and apply it to the total yearly murders you get roughly ~330 a year. Gun deaths amongst children 1-17 is about 7.6x that figure. If you wanted to argue on presentation of tragedy of death, I think little kids being turned into swiss cheese would be pretty gross.

But, I am just an emotional paid socialist agitator and not looking at the facts and stats.

 

[Bantry19]

You don't have to be under arrest to be subject to lawful LE orders. If an officer orders you to stay back, move away from a situation, or similar, you're not under arrest, but still have to comply... or you will be arrested. He interfered with them doing their job and when they tried to remove him, he resisted and struggled. He put himself in that situation, not them. As far as I know, he didn't pull his gun. However, having it in such a situation where you're interfering with LE doing its job certainly raises the danger level and puts everyone on edge.

Was he ordered to stay back, move away, or similar?

Or, are we just spitting out hypotheticals?

What was he under arrest for??

 

[Bishop2b5]

Was he ordered to stay back, move away, or similar?

Or, are we just spitting out hypotheticals?

What was he under arrest for??

Yes, he had been told to stay back, move away, or similar and refused.

No, he hadn't been arrested at that point, but that's not really relevant or necessary.

 

[Bantry19]

Of course it’s relevant! The entire justification I’ve heard for him being killed is he was resisting!

Resisting what?!? Resisting assault?

 

[NDVirginia19]

 

[calvegas04]

So weird seeing people defend the ICE officer on this one, he was clearly wrong. This isn't like other LEO cases in the past where the officer was in the right and people protested regardless.

 

[GoIrish41]

Sure. Even in the recent shooting you can see ICE being pelted non stop. It’s not the only video where we just glance over vehicles or people being pelted with objects. Officers often walk off bloody with no recourse.

They could GTFO of Minneapolis. That’s the recourse. These pussies are in full body armor and are tear gassing, shooting rubber bullets at, smashing car windows of and manhandling people on the streets of an American city and they are crying because they are being hit with snowballs. Pft. That happens at every Eagles game in the snow. Suck it the fuck up — should have expected this when they signed up to be jackbooted thugs.

 

[drayer54]

Like I've said plenty of times - just take the Obama approach then. He was more effective than Trump's first term. I think it would be a >50% position, I would disagree with it but that's because I'm a progressive not a liberal. It's a much better choice than whatever this is.

People are absolutely reacting to cable news narratives. You look at yourself, you're using anecdotes to support your positions. It's an inarguable position, unless I or anyone knows this specific neighborhood no one can disagree with you. If you get bogged down in personal anecdotes your brain will melt. Immigration policy running on emotions and anecdotes is impossible. If you take the homicide rates and apply it to the total yearly murders you get roughly ~330 a year. Gun deaths amongst children 1-17 is about 7.6x that figure. If you wanted to argue on presentation of tragedy of death, I think little kids being turned into swiss cheese would be pretty gross.

But, I am just an emotional paid socialist agitator and not looking at the facts and stats.

Guns and kids is an entirely separate topic with an entirely separate range of policy choices.

I am calling the participants in MSP that are being dispatched on a funded, documented, and trained network to deploy tactics designed to prevent the enforcement of the law, tear down hotels believed to be housing ICE, or stopping locals indiscriminately believed to be ICE and demanding to see their ID to be in that last category.

You and Kamala Harris can't even tell me how many illegals came in during the Biden years. We only have a wide range of estimates. My recollection of the Obama era border policy was if you found yourself in the pokey and you were an illegal, you were probably gone. I just don't believe that policy option is on the table anymore in the era of reflexive resistance to Trump and sanctuary cities. I mean we have governors trying to undermine him abroad with kneepads. Not to mention the illegal immigrant population is so much higher now after Biden and the problem has evolved in the last decade. Trump has a different challenge than Obama did, also a very different mandate.

 

[NDVirginia19]

So weird seeing people defend the ICE officer on this one, he was clearly wrong. This isn't like other LEO cases in the past where the officer was in the right and people protested regardless.

I think the ICE officer was in the wrong, but also that the "protestors" contributed, creating an environment that makes incidents like this incredibly more likely to occur