Immigration

[ACamp1900]

Definitely doesn't work that way... can confirm.

 

[Legacy]

How Trump Betrayed Ann Coulter on Immigration: The political commentator may be more committed to the Republican nominee’s platform than he is.

The secret of Trump’s success, she argues, has been ideological. He recognized that “Americans,” by which she mostly means Republicans, “are homesick.” They don’t just oppose immigration because they believe it depresses wages and strains government services. They’re homesick for a whiter America, an America that was once truly free because “it’s not in the Anglo-Saxon character either to take orders or to give them.” (Never mind about slavery.) Since 1965, however, when Lyndon Johnson signed legislation allowing more immigration from Latin America, Asia, and Africa, the United States has been, according to Coulter in In Trump We Trust, overrun by “illiterate peasants … who can be instructed to learn certain symbols and bloc-vote for the Democrats.” In response, Democrats, along with rich Republicans, keep the doors open to non-European immigration, and thus America has grown “browner” and “shorter.” (That’s Coulter’s description from Adios America). Corruption rises. So does terrorism and rape.

We need ideologists to avoid spinning into a relativist universe. Will Coulter be drawn into that black hole?

 

[ickythump1225]

All the talk of "pivoting" or "softening" turned out to be for naught. Trump's speech was on point and the best speech on immigration by any public figure this side of the Buchanan Brigade. The meeting with Mexican president and the speech in Arizona made for the single best day of the Trump candidacy since his announcement speech.

 

[NDinL.A.]

All the talk of "pivoting" or "softening" turned out to be for naught. Trump's speech was on point and the best speech on immigration by any public figure this side of the Buchanan Brigade. The meeting with Mexican president and the speech in Arizona made for the single best day of the Trump candidacy since his announcement speech.

Are you serious Clark? History will call that speech "Ramblings of a Mad Man" or "The Reason Donald J Trump is Losing the Election" or "Reason #3,208 Trump is out of touch with 75% of today's America." He used to constantly rip Hillary for reading off a teleprompter and screaming, and now that's all he does at rallies. They seriously need to to turn down the mic volume when he's in Angry Trump mode.

Trump, Breitbart, and the alt-right are so far out of touch with reality and the way most voters think (especially young people, college grads, minorities and suburban women) it's pathetic. He is somehow losing (pretty badly, actually) to an absolute mess of a candidate because of it. Conservatives and independents are begging for a reason to vote against Hillary, but instead Trump keeps staying closer to the alt-right than pivoting to the middle, and the results could be catastrophic for conservatives.

 

[Legacy]

All the talk of "pivoting" or "softening" turned out to be for naught. Trump's speech was on point and the best speech on immigration by any public figure this side of the Buchanan Brigade. The meeting with Mexican president and the speech in Arizona made for the single best day of the Trump candidacy since his announcement speech.

Several Hispanic Trump surrogates reconsider support

Jacob Monty, a member of Trump’s National Hispanic Advisory Council, quickly resigned after the speech. Another member, Ramiro Pena, a Texas pastor, said Trump's speech likely cost him the election and said he'd have to reconsider being part of a "scam." And Alfonso Aguilar, the president of the Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles, said in an interview that he is “inclined” to pull his support.
“I was a strong supporter of Donald Trump when I believed he was going to address the immigration problem realistically and compassionately,” said Monty, a Houston attorney who has aggressively made the Latino case for Trump. “What I heard today was not realistic and not compassionate.”

“It’s so disappointing because we feel we took a chance, a very risky chance,” Aguilar said. “We decided to make a big U-turn to see if we could make him change. We thought we were moving in the right direction … we’re disappointed. We feel misled.”

Single best day of the Trump candidacy?

 

[ickythump1225]

Several Hispanic Trump surrogates reconsider support





Single best day of the Trump candidacy?

Pssh, none of those people were going to vote for Trump anyway it was all a show. They were basing their support on the idea that he might come around to amnesty when he has made hard line immigration reform the centerpiece of his candidacy. Hispandering will get you nowhere, it didn't work for McCain or Romney and there is zero reason to believe it would work for Trump.

 

[ickythump1225]

Are you serious Clark? History will call that speech "Ramblings of a Mad Man" or "The Reason Donald J Trump is Losing the Election" or "Reason #3,208 Trump is out of touch with 75% of today's America." He used to constantly rip Hillary for reading off a teleprompter and screaming, and now that's all he does at rallies. They seriously need to to turn down the mic volume when he's in Angry Trump mode.

Trump, Breitbart, and the alt-right are so far out of touch with reality and the way most voters think (especially young people, college grads, minorities and suburban women) it's pathetic. He is somehow losing (pretty badly, actually) to an absolute mess of a candidate because of it. Conservatives and independents are begging for a reason to vote against Hillary, but instead Trump keeps staying closer to the alt-right than pivoting to the middle, and the results could be catastrophic for conservatives.

All of the polls (even the ones that rigged their methodology to favor Clinton like Reuters/Ipsos) show a tightening race, a close race. Don't mistake media coverage for the actual feelings of the nation. If the media was an accurate barometer of public feeling Trump wouldn't have gotten the most votes in GOP primary history. Also, polls consistently show Trump doing well with independents. The reason the race isn't a big Trump lead is A) polling methodology is weighted against Trump (most famously Reuters changed it's polling methodology taking a 1 point Trump lead and turning it into a 6 point HRC lead:Clinton leads Trump by 6 points after Democratic confab: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters) B) not all Republicans have gotten on board yet.

Of the demographics you listed out suburban women are the most important from a electoral strategy perspective. Young people (which includes recent college grads) and minorities are notoriously unreliable voters. Whites still make up the vast majority of the voting bloc. Romney would have increased his Hispanic vote by a third and gotten 100% of the black vote and still lost to Obama, yet an increase of 3%ish in his white turnout would have netted him a sizable victory.

 

[ickythump1225]

It also shows what a pathetic nation we have become that common sense immigration proposals are thought of as "racist" or "alt right." Building a wall, enforcing laws on the books, deporting criminals, deporting visa overstays, vetting your immigrants, and ensuring the ability to self sufficient from any potential immigrants aren't "extreme" they are the historical norm for most countries' immigration policies.

Painting any form of immigration enforcement as "extreme" or "racist" puts the left and the useless right out of step with the general population.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It also shows what a pathetic nation we have become that common sense immigration proposals are thought of as "racist" or "alt right."

It's because nothing about it is common sense.

Building a wall, enforcing laws on the books, deporting criminals, deporting visa overstays, vetting your immigrants, and ensuring the ability to self sufficient from any potential immigrants aren't "extreme" they are the historical norm for most countries' immigration policies.

Show me one time in history when a nation has built a wall thousands of miles long to stop an immigration situation that 1) is no longer happening, and 2) wouldn't stop anything anyway.

Show me one time in history when a nation forcibly removed millions of people and didn't immediately regret it and have a national shame afterward that lasted decades.

Show me one time in history when a nation intentionally put its economy into a recession in order to enforce a byzantine immigration system.

We already vet immigrants, more thoroughly than most countries too. And everyone favors deporting criminals--but spare us all the "ah but they're all criminals as they're here illegally!"

Painting any form of immigration enforcement as "extreme" or "racist" puts the left and the useless right out of step with the general population.

The general population favors common sense: a workable path to citizenship after a background check and perhaps a fine.

 

[Legacy]

We've needed a common sense immigration policy for a decade, which has been stymed by groups that refuse to work with each other or to compromise.

Does Trump have any Republican Hispanic legislators or advisors that endorse his immigration policies? Or, if elected, will he remain incalcitrant and we stumble ahead with the status quo?

 

[kmoose]

We already vet immigrants, more thoroughly than most countries too. And everyone favors deporting criminals--but spare us all the "ah but they're all criminals as they're here illegally!"

"I support deporting criminals!"

"Oh! Well, not THOSE criminals. I mean, those criminals are not *really* criminals. They just broke the law, is all. Perfectly understandable."

 

[Buster Bluth]

"I support deporting criminals!"

"Oh! Well, not THOSE criminals. I mean, those criminals are not *really* criminals. They just broke the law, is all. Perfectly understandable."

Precisely. The logic behind barring murderers and thieves from citizenship makes sense, and the logistics behind removing them are actually, ya know, possible. (Although in the cases involving serious criminals we'd want them in jail to serve their time, not deportation).

 

[EuropeanDomer22]

Hungarian PM vows to resist EU's 'misguided' migrant policy | Reuters

Everyone in Europe slowly realizing that they were giving away their countries. Sweden originally said they'd take "everyone"... then having mass deportation of 10s of thousands. France has a crisis, Greece has a crisis, Italy... well, I have a friend looking to sell his Tuscan villa for 10 cents on the dollar that he paid for it because he can't guarantee security anymore.

The bottom line is that these people DO NOT ASSIMILATE into the country's culture. The United States has had the same problem with Somali refugees, etc. over the years. At some point, you have to start worrying about yourself and your country and not trying to save everybody.

This is 100% true

I live in Europe and all i can say is that muslims are incompatible with the civilized world. I used to be a "leftie", i used to think there were no borders for people, but this massive migration has been an eye opening for me. They terrify everyone, even migrants who are christians are returning to their countries because they are tortured by muslims in the refugee camps. They hit our girls in front everyone if they are not covered. It's crazy and the police&press always cover their crimes to not create panic. That's why the far right is getting stronger in North Europe, people is SICK of political correctness. Listen, Mohammed is already the most popular name among baby boys in the UK, it is just getting bigger and bigger. The numbers of christians are decreasing while muslims are rising. All civilizations have fallen throughout history fom within, and we are not learning anything, and western life will FALL because of our own stupidity and political correctness. I do not like Trump, because he is just a cheap populist, but at least he is not scared to speak the truth about migration, in this days you can't speak the truth without being called a racist. Pls America, you are great, don't be like Europe.

 

[kmoose]

(Although in the cases involving serious criminals we'd want them in jail to serve their time, not deportation).

Like hell. I don't want a bunch of murdering illegals sitting in American jails where they can make connections with domestic criminal elements inside of the United States.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Like hell. I don't want a bunch of murdering illegals sitting in American jails where they can make connections with domestic criminal elements inside of the United States.

Oh you want to deport them to Mexico where they are then free to sneak back into the country? That...sounds like a worse idea.

 

[kmoose]

Oh you want to deport them to Mexico where they are then free to sneak back into the country? That...sounds like a worse idea.

I never said anything about Mexico, or Mexicans. Why do you assume that "illegal" means "Mexican"? You, Sir, are a lousy racist scum!

The whole idea is to secure the border at the same time. It will never be airtight, but it doesn't have to be a hemorrhaging sieve for people to come through by the busload. So, no; I would not deport them and allow them to just walk back across the border.

 

[BobbyMac]

This is 100% true

I live in Europe and all i can say is that muslims are incompatible with the civilized world. I used to be a "leftie", i used to think there were no borders for people, but this massive migration has been an eye opening for me. They terrify everyone, even migrants who are christians are returning to their countries because they are tortured by muslims in the refugee camps. They hit our girls in front everyone if they are not covered. It's crazy and the police&press always cover their crimes to not create panic. That's why the far right is getting stronger in North Europe, people is SICK of political correctness. Listen, Mohammed is already the most popular name among baby boys in the UK, it is just getting bigger and bigger. The numbers of christians are decreasing while muslims are rising. All civilizations have fallen throughout history fom within, and we are not learning anything, and western life will FALL because of our own stupidity and political correctness. I do not like Trump, because he is just a cheap populist, but at least he is not scared to speak the truth about migration, in this days you can't speak the truth without being called a racist. Pls America, you are great, don't be like Europe.

I'm sorry you are going through what you are now and even more sorry what awaits the continent in the next decade. It's just a matter of time before the fuse is lit. Be safe.

 

[GoIrish41]

I never said anything about Mexico, or Mexicans. Why do you assume that "illegal" means "Mexican"? You, Sir, are a lousy racist scum!

The whole idea is to secure the border at the same time. It will never be airtight, but it doesn't have to be a hemorrhaging sieve for people to come through by the busload. So, no; I would not deport them and allow them to just walk back across the border.

If you don't want to deport them and you don't want to detain them in American prisons, what do you want to do? Kill them? Send them to GTMO?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I never said anything about Mexico, or Mexicans. Why do you assume that "illegal" means "Mexican"? You, Sir, are a lousy racist scum!

Probably because there are 10x more illegal Mexicans than any other nation, and the illegal immigration question almost always focuses on that fact...

The whole idea is to secure the border at the same time. It will never be airtight, but it doesn't have to be a hemorrhaging sieve for people to come through by the busload.

Respectfully, what the hell are you talking about? When Hillary is sworn in in 2017, it will have been a decade since the number of illegal immigrants increased.

So, no; I would not deport them and allow them to just walk back across the border.

What other decision is left?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'm sorry you are going through what you are now and even more sorry what awaits the continent in the next decade. It's just a matter of time before the fuse is lit. Be safe.

Uh no. Muslims would have to cross oceans to get here, and numerous studies have shown that the Muslim who comes here is demonstrably different tan the Muslim who moves to Europe. American Muslims are more liberal, educated, and far more likely to assimilate. That happens when you have an immigration policy that takes a small amount of refugees and usually only educated (or skilled) workers, like a Pakistani doctor...

 

[BobbyMac]

If you don't want to deport them and you don't want to detain them in American prisons, what do you want to do? Kill them? Send them to GTMO?

Enroll them in the American Apprenticeship Program. Put them in Federal Work camps along the border and use them to build the wall. After 3 years of labor, they are given probationary citizenship during which time they must stay 100% crime free for a 5 year period. During this time, a clearing house will assign them to a state. Some get Fargo ND, some get Chattanooga, TN, etc. This aids in cultural integration/assimilation. They will live there for the duration of their probationary period. After their 8 year apprenticeship is complete they take the American Acceptance Test that evaluates their mastery of the English language, American history and law. If they pass, they are full American citizens and are free to move anywhere in the country. If they fail, they retest in 60 days. If they fail twice, they go home with free airfare and a $1000 parting gift from the US government so that they are starting fresh back in their native country.

Pretty simple actually.

Write in Crusader on your ballot!

 

[NDinL.A.]

All of the polls (even the ones that rigged their methodology to favor Clinton like Reuters/Ipsos) show a tightening race, a close race. Don't mistake media coverage for the actual feelings of the nation. If the media was an accurate barometer of public feeling Trump wouldn't have gotten the most votes in GOP primary history. Also, polls consistently show Trump doing well with independents. The reason the race isn't a big Trump lead is A) polling methodology is weighted against Trump (most famously Reuters changed it's polling methodology taking a 1 point Trump lead and turning it into a 6 point HRC lead:Clinton leads Trump by 6 points after Democratic confab: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters) B) not all Republicans have gotten on board yet.

Of the demographics you listed out suburban women are the most important from a electoral strategy perspective. Young people (which includes recent college grads) and minorities are notoriously unreliable voters. Whites still make up the vast majority of the voting bloc. Romney would have increased his Hispanic vote by a third and gotten 100% of the black vote and still lost to Obama, yet an increase of 3%ish in his white turnout would have netted him a sizable victory.

Sorry, but that is SUCH bullshit. All of the polls show a close race? On what planet is 7 points nationally a close race??? Yes, the latest poll showed 7 points. And the polling average shows Clinton up 4.1 points. Obama won by 3.5 points and DESTROYED Romney. Clinton is up bigger, and you call that a close race? Tightening, for sure, but close? Not yet.

And the national doesn't mean much. It's the electoral college and the swing states that mean everything, and she is up in almost every single swing state and she's putting red states like Georgia and AZ into play, which is utterly embarrassing to the GOP. He desperately needs states like PA, NC, OH and FL, and he isn't leading on aggregate in any of them.

And sorry, not all polls swing left...matter of fact, anyone who follows the polls know which ones lean left and which ones lean right and which ones are completely legit. It's why 538 uses a complicated algorithm to find (in their view) the best, most accurate assessment of the polls, and they show Hillary with a commanding lead. In fact, no candidate since Dewey has come back from a hole like Trump is in this late, and that was with FAR less sophisticated polling back in those days. You're using the same logic that had Republicans like myself believing Romney was going to win in 2012...I was brainwashed by Fox as well. Thank God I grew up and left that fucking cacoon and realized they weren't "Fair and Balanced" but delusional and as one-sided as all the rest of the outlets.

So you're in for a rude awakening if you think the polls are screwing Trump. There is only one thing screwing Trump: Trump. He was gift-wrapped this election and but he's too much of a fuck up to take advantage. And don't hold your breath waiting for the other Republicans to jump on board - #neverTrump really did mean never for many of us...

 

[Rizzophil]

If you don't want to deport them and you don't want to detain them in American prisons, what do you want to do? Kill them? Send them to GTMO?

Obama already released prisons from Gitmo and they are already causing terror around the world

 

[kmoose]

Respectfully, what the hell are you talking about? When Hillary is sworn in in 2017, it will have been a decade since the number of illegal immigrants increased.

So, according to your numbers........

Between 2011 and 2014, the number of illegal immigrants rose from 11.2 to 11.3 million. That's 100,000 new illegal immigrants in a 3 year period. That works out to an average of 33,000 a year, or ~641 a week , or ~91.5 a day. The average Greyhound bus holds 55 passengers. That's more than an entire busload coming across, every day, for 3 years. Is it down from before? Sure. Is it acceptable? It sure as hell shouldn't be.

 

[irish1958]

Blame Bush for this mess. It looks like Obama has it under control.

 

[GoIrish41]

Obama already released prisons from Gitmo and they are already causing terror around the world

That's not what I asked about though. I asked if there was a suggestion made about using it to detain illegal immigrants. If we aren't going to detain them here and we aren't going to deport them, we are running out of options. And any remaining options are a little dark for my taste.

 

[Buster Bluth]

So, according to your numbers........

Between 2011 and 2014, the number of illegal immigrants rose from 11.2 to 11.3 million. That's 100,000 new illegal immigrants in a 4 year period. That works out to an average of 33,000 a year, or ~641 a week , or ~91.5 a day. The average Greyhound bus holds 55 passengers. That's more than an entire busload coming across, every day, for 3 years. Is it down from before? Sure. Is it acceptable? It sure as hell shouldn't be.

I actually lol'd at this.

91.5/day seems rather airtight for a border thousands and thousands of miles long.

33,000 a year when the native population grows at around 2,000,000-3,000,000 annually, specifically an increase of .1 million illegal immigrants in the same time we grew by 7.0 million.

Since Mexicans make up roughly half, lets go with 50 Mexicans a day, along a border than is around 2,000 miles. That's a 40:1 miles to person ratio, so forty miles of wall to keep out one farm laborer per day... absolutely hemorrhaging.

 

[kmoose]

I actually lol'd at this.

91.5/day seems rather airtight for a border thousands and thousands of miles long.

33,000 a year when the native population grows at around 2,000,000-3,000,000 annually, specifically an increase of .1 million illegal immigrants in the same time we grew by 7.0 million.

Since Mexicans make up roughly half, lets go with 50 Mexicans a day, along a border than is around 2,000 miles. That's a 40:1 miles to person ratio, so forty miles of wall to keep out one farm laborer per day... absolutely hemorrhaging.

YOU were the one who contended that the murderer who was deported could just walk back across the border. I simply acknowledged that the border could never be completely secure, but that it didn't have to hemorrhage people either.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Enroll them in the American Apprenticeship Program. Put them in Federal Work camps along the border and use them to build the wall. After 3 years of labor, they are given probationary citizenship during which time they must stay 100% crime free for a 5 year period. During this time, a clearing house will assign them to a state. Some get Fargo ND, some get Chattanooga, TN, etc. This aids in cultural integration/assimilation. They will live there for the duration of their probationary period. After their 8 year apprenticeship is complete they take the American Acceptance Test that evaluates their mastery of the English language, American history and law. If they pass, they are full American citizens and are free to move anywhere in the country. If they fail, they retest in 60 days. If they fail twice, they go home with free airfare and a $1000 parting gift from the US government so that they are starting fresh back in their native country.

Pretty simple actually.

Write in Crusader on your ballot!

Do this with criminals?? They'd be building a wall near the border. As in, they walk across a literal line in the sand and we don't have jurisdiction to apprehend them... Seems like a solid idea for a comedy scene.

 

[BobbyMac]

Uh no. Muslims would have to cross oceans to get here, and numerous studies have shown that the Muslim who comes here is demonstrably different tan the Muslim who moves to Europe. American Muslims are more liberal, educated, and far more likely to assimilate. That happens when you have an immigration policy that takes a small amount of refugees and usually only educated (or skilled) workers, like a Pakistani doctor...

I didn't write anything about "here".