High-School Senior Controversial WSJ Article

[Irish Houstonian]

read the report. read it again until you understand it. it is national data from the census. it is purely descriptive, meaning there is no need for extensive interpretation here. and it indicates exactly what I wrote. if you still don't get it, read it again.

Dude, you said "black americans who make more than $75,000 in income per year live in neighborhoods with higher poverty than whites making less than $30,000 per year".

That's wrong, and you can search around DailyKos all you want, you'll never find a "report" that says that.

 

[Kingbish01]

Same school as Wiz Khalifa--She must be part of the Taylor Gang

 

[GoIrish41]

Not very "progressive" of you, GoIrish???? I thought everyone needs to go to college? LOL



Liked the piece. Yeah, she's whiny...but mentions some great points about the bullshit that is "diversity" and that somehow, personal struggle makes you a better college canidate.

She should go to college, as should everyone who wants to. She just shouldn't expect to go to the college of her choice if she isn't willing to work for it. I thought you would appreciate this point of view, since you are from the party of "personal responsibility." If there is an obsticle in front of her, she should recognize it and overcome it, right. Because those pesky minorities are taking all of the slots at the finer universities, she should have recognized that and worked harder to be above the threshold where affirmative action would have even mattered. Isn't that the sort of advice you guys give poor kids living in the inner city who attend broken schools in dangerous neighborhoods. I thought that is what you guys were all about. She appears to me to be making the point that while many kids were checking the blocks that would help them get in the college they want to go to, she was above all that.

 

[MNIrishman]

sh!t if your black doctor's son lived in a decent n'hood my argument must be wrong. no wiggle room needed, see below...

(edit: the best part is that you're 'pretty sure this isn't true' based on one single person that you know).



From a recent national analysis of the average neighborhoods (census tracts of all racial and ethnic groups):
US2010
http://www.s4.brown.edu/us2010/Data/Report/report0727.pdf

from page 5, based on data from the latter half of the 2000s:
"For example, consider only affluent households whose incomes were above $75,000 in each year (adjusted for inflation). Table 2 shows that the average affluent white household lived in a neighborhood where the poverty share was under 10 percent in every year. But poor white households (incomes below $40,000) lived in neighborhoods with only slightly greater poverty shares, about 12 percent or 13 percent. In contrast, affluent blacks lived in neighborhoods that were 14-15 percent poor, and affluent Hispanics in neighborhoods that were about 13 percent poor. On average around the country, in this whole period of nearly two decades, affluent blacks and Hispanics lived in neighborhoods with fewer resources than did poor whites."

I was off on the income levels used to measure 'low-income' by $10,000. Pretty remarkable, huh? Makes you wonder what else you're getting wrong when you deny that race is important in America.

Hey dude, no need for snark. I'm glad you have strong opinions, but there's nothing wrong with calling out someone for not providing a source. I'm glad you did. It's a good source and contributes something valuable to this discussion.

However, this source does not align exactly with what you said earlier. You said "blacks live...", not "many blacks live..." or "blacks often live..." or "blacks tend to live" or "Statistically, the majority of wealthy blacks live...." When you say what you said, a single counterexample stands as invalidation of argument. I'm not saying that what you were trying to say wasn't true, only that what you said wasn't an argument, just an assertion that tended to the absolute. With your statistical source, you have amended your argument to something that is meaningful, a lot stronger, and honestly, important to the argument. I'm not sure I agree with whether these statistics should be used in college admissions, but if you stop swearing at me when I ask for numbers, perhaps we can get somewhere besides just contentious sarcasm.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Putting aside a report pre-designed to confirm its own biases, this is much different than what you originally wrote.

So...what about the report makes you claim it's biased? The fact that it came out of Brown, or the fact that what it says doesn't line up with your own biases? Because unless you (or a source you have access to) read the entire report and can show where they manipulated the data or reverse engineered the study to get desired results, those seem to be the only two explanations for that claim.

Anyway, race is important, just as economic background is important. Schools should try to take these two things into account as part of a much larger strategy to identify students who will add the most to the campus.

By the way, colleges don't value diversity because It helps their rankings- diversity helps their rankings because it indicates students are more likely to interact with people with a broad range of experiences and perspectives. This would be desirable to schools with or without us news to rank them. The admissions process is not designed to cater to students, it's designed to build the best learning environment possible. It's very possible to get into a great school as a white person- you just have to be a great candidate. If you're not, you'll probably look identical to thousands of similar applicants to most admissions officers.

 

[GoIrish41]

If that kid deserved to be accepted into the Ivy League, then yes that is a shame. That student isn't entitled to an Ivy education, but denying someone who has earned it is wrong.

There is only so many spots. If she wanted one of those spots, she should have recognized that the work to get one started somewhere around 9th grade. Because what is the alternative ... leaving huge sections of the country who are at a disadvantage our of the equasion? Lots of kids who deserve spots in top schools don't get them -- no matter what their color. Blaming minorities, or gays, or your parents, or society, to me, demonstrates that this particular individual (the author of the article) probably didn't have the maturity to get into an elite school, even if she would have applied herself in high school to earn her spot.

 

[MNIrishman]

I think part of the diversity issue is that not all sides of diversity appear to be given equal weight. Racial and (potentially) sexual-orientation diversity are high profile, while socioeconomic diversity (regardless of race), athletic diversity (different kinds of sports done in high school as well as people who did no sports in high school), and intellectual diversity (feminists, players of different instruments, robotics enthusiasts, minority rights volunteers, poets) all appear to be less important to admissions committees. Is this actually the case? I'm not sure, but I think it's really unfair for the black doctor's son to be admitted on the basis of disadvantaged childhood when the poor white daughter of a single mother is turned away because her test scores didn't line up with the rest of the applicants in her ethnic category.

"Diversity" and "disadvantage" are complicated subjects that transcend racial categorization alone.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Who with any sense in their brain tells anybody that?

She basically said, "I bet if I'd had great SAT scores, they would have accepted me".

You bet your a$$ they would.

In general, I was hinting at the point kids today are coddled and are told from the time they are little that they are the best. Some schools and parents avoid focusing on outcomes and competition and elect instead to give everyone an award. Some recent examples are games where score isn't kept, elimination of "honors night" b/c not all kids are honors students. In general, some kids fail to see that it is a very competitve world where you do need to distinguish yourself. Sometimes, kids don't learn this until they apply for college.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Pretty sure this isn't true...The black doctor's son from my high school who was the only one admitted to HYPS lived in a pretty swanky neighborhood...

Perhaps provide sources and give yourself some wiggle room by not speaking in absolutes? Only a Sith speaks in absolutes.

He is correct in general. Two of the bigger reasons why wealth mobility is so bad for blacks compared to whites is:
1. The extreme amount of single female households
2. Even with higher incomes, blacks choose to live around those who they feel most comfortable with and this usually means living in or near impoverished communities. Pew has some good research on it if you want to read up.

 

[gkautz10]

You are assuming one of two things: 1) being white does not provide major advantages to youth throughout childhood (higher quality schools and teachers, environments with relatively few toxins or stressors that impede cognitive development, freedom from consistent discrimination, high-quality community programs); or 2) that advantages associated with being white or disadvantages associated with being nonwhite in America should not matter in college admissions - i.e. they should be discounted in the admissions process.

From your perspective, it's not fair that some with lower scores on standardized tests are admitted. From another perspective, it's not fair that nonwhite kids have been exposed to inferior learning environments and residential environments throughout their lives. It's not fair that a white kid who smokes or even deals pot has an extremely low probability of getting in trouble with the law, while a black kid who does the same has a high probability of being in prison by the time he reaches college.

Any system that attempts to compensate for these types of structural inequalities by attempting to alter the calculus of who is worthy in a formulaic way is going to have flaws, serious inefficiencies, and unintended consequences. Our system of college admissions is no exception - it leads to some kids who are nonwhite yet come from privileged backgrounds being admitted while much more talented and driven kids who don't have a good guidance counselor being left behind. It leads to kids being admitted to schools that offer little support and being unprepared for college life. It leads to animosity among whites who deny or don't understand their own advantage or deny other groups' disadvantages and don't understand why race should be on college applications at all. But to say it's unfair reflects a very narrow-minded view of fairness, in my opinion.

You are reciting an example from a philosophy or econ class that discusses how cities and governments make decisions on where to place landfills and other spoils to the economy and environment. They put them in poor predominantly black or Hispanic neighborhoods because they know that those people do not have the money to move, fight it through legal battles, or the knowledge to know what the ramifications are. They are also tricked into thinking that this company or dump site will bring jobs to the neighborhood close to where they live and they can walk to work because they can't afford transportation.

I think you are wrongly assuming that black people or other underprivileged groups who make $75,000 a year move to these sites because that is what they can afford or they are forced to live there by some invisible hand. It doesn't make any sense because a person who makes $75,000 whether they are white or black still makes $75,000 and can afford the same lifestyle. I believe you are confusing a few concepts here.

 

[Ndaccountant]

sh!t if your black doctor's son lived in a decent n'hood my argument must be wrong. no wiggle room needed, see below...

(edit: the best part is that you're 'pretty sure this isn't true' based on one single person that you know).



From a recent national analysis of the average neighborhoods (census tracts of all racial and ethnic groups):
US2010
http://www.s4.brown.edu/us2010/Data/Report/report0727.pdf

from page 5, based on data from the latter half of the 2000s:
"For example, consider only affluent households whose incomes were above $75,000 in each year (adjusted for inflation). Table 2 shows that the average affluent white household lived in a neighborhood where the poverty share was under 10 percent in every year. But poor white households (incomes below $40,000) lived in neighborhoods with only slightly greater poverty shares, about 12 percent or 13 percent. In contrast, affluent blacks lived in neighborhoods that were 14-15 percent poor, and affluent Hispanics in neighborhoods that were about 13 percent poor. On average around the country, in this whole period of nearly two decades, affluent blacks and Hispanics lived in neighborhoods with fewer resources than did poor whites."

I was off on the income levels used to measure 'low-income' by $10,000. Pretty remarkable, huh? Makes you wonder what else you're getting wrong when you deny that race is important in America.

race matters but it matters because of the style of life. There is no denying the fact that there is a HUGE difference between mainstream America's general family structure compared the the general African American family structure.

When you look at a person who grows up in a family with two parents, their chances leading of life with increased wealth is much greater than those who don't. Additionally, those who come from a family with two parents are often better educated and choose partners who are also better educated and come from a family with two parents. It isn't a race thing, it's a family thing.

 

[gkautz10]

He is correct in general. Two of the bigger reasons why wealth mobility is so bad for blacks compared to whites is:
1. The extreme amount of single female households
2. Even with higher incomes, blacks choose to live around those who they feel most comfortable with and this usually means living in or near impoverished communities. Pew has some good research on it if you want to read up.

But I think he was saying that the underprivileged are FORCED to live in these areas, and ignoring the fact that they CHOOSE to live there. Nobody can control where they choose to live and wealth example used doesnt make any sense nor does it solidify his point.

 

[Ndaccountant]

But I think he was saying that the underprivileged are FORCED to live in these areas, and ignoring the fact that they CHOOSE to live there. Nobody can control where they choose to live and wealth example used doesnt make any sense nor does it solidify his point.

fair point. I was thinking he meant where they live, not why they live there.

 

[nlroma1o]

The article was entertaining. I'm not sure its supposed to be anything but that. If this girl really is serious, she is going to have a hard time when the real world shows up and smacks her in the face.

College admissions is intense nowadays, everyone clearly knows that. If you wanna get into the best school, then you have to compete with the best. And if it just so happens the "best" are volunteering in Africa, or joining 20 bullshit clubs in highschool, then well.... You better start signing up for those 20 bs clubs. Oh yeah, and you have to have the grades and test scores.. Thats just the way it is.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

The funniest thing is she never said what she did to deserve to get in...

But yeah I do agree with people talking about poor whites, after living in the countryside I can say that while they might not be in an identical situation with poor blacks they have major obstacles to overcome. And at least in the few CA universities with "opportunity programs" I have been around they are in them.

 

[ClausentoTate]

I don't really understand what's controversial about what she says. There are absolutely quotas and entitlements. Everyone knows it. People that know the game have a huge upper-hand and nothing you do in high school has any impact on anything what-so-ever. It's a completely subjective say on which borderline applicant makes it into a school and quotas have a huge impact on the decision.

I just wish they'd look further into it than "he's white" and throw it into the "normal" pile. Diversity isn't always a race issue. Brilliance doesn't always show up in test scores. I met a ton of diverse people at ND even if they weren't all minorities. I never once found a person with nearly the same background as me while I was at ND. I'm white but I'm diverse and you can't tell me otherwise. Just because ND has a majority of white people doesn't mean they are lacking in diversity or don't welcome it.

Slightly off topic, but I also wish more kids would stop applying to 10+ schools when they know they will get into all or the majority of them. I'm not sure what the solution would be but on the macro scale a lot of borderline students may not get the chance they deserve.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Megan McArdle at The Daily Beast just published a comment on the WSJ article:

All right, children: it's time for Aunty Megan to bore you with how things were In Her Day. Way back in 1989, when I was applying to college, there was a certain amount of creativity applied to college applications. The particular school I attended was structured to make you look good on college applications: athletics were practically mandatory, extracurriculars were strongly encouraged. The essay seemed to require an epiphany, whether or not you'd actually had one, so we did our best to emulate personal insight.

But the things that we achieved were basically within reach of a normal human being who was going about the business of growing up: playing a sport, perhaps badly; taking classes; occasionally volunteering as a candy striper. Most of us took the SAT without the benefit of test prep services, and the "test prep" we got in class consisted of--learning vocabulary and algebra. People like me, who were painfully unathletic and had hashed some early high school classes still had a shot at an Ivy League School

These days, a nearly-perfect GPA is the barest requisite for an elite institution. You're also supposed to be a top notch athlete and/or musician, the master of multiple extracurriculars. Summers should preferably be spent doing charitable work, hopefully in a foreign country, or failing that, at least attending some sort of advanced academic or athletic program.

Naturally, this selects for kids who are extremely affluent, with extremely motivated parents who will steer them through the process of "founding a charity" and other artificial activities. Kids who have to spend their summer doing some boring menial labor in order to buy clothes have a hard time amassing that kind of enrichment experience.

The irony is that even admissions officers seem to be put off by this dynamic; presumably that's why I'm told that kids now have to have fake epiphanies about the suffering of other, less privileged people instead of just having fake epiphanies about themselves. This proves that they are really caring human beings who want to do more for the world than just make money so that they, too will, in their time, be able to get their children into Harvard.

This entire thing is absurd. I understand why kids engage in this ridiculous arms race. What I don't understand is why admissions officers, who have presumably met some teenagers, and used to be one, actually reward it. Why not give kids a bonus for showing up to a routine job during high school, like real people, instead of for having wealthy parents who can help you tap their affluent social network for charitable donations? Why have we conflated "excellence" with affluence, driven parents, and a relentless will to conform on the part of the kids?

Elite colleges would be better off with more kids like Suzy Lee Weiss and fewer kids like Blair Hornstine. Unfortunately, the admissions system seems to be primarily geared towards fake sincerity and ersatz enrichment.

 

[SaltyND24]

I see what your saying, and it's my understanding your going to ND next year?, just wait until you get on campus. The lack of diversity here is borderline atrocious, and I can't even imagine what it'd be like without the administration pushing for diverse students even if they are less qualified. I hated the idea of affirmative action coming of high school, but now that I'm at ND I can see why we do it at least. And I know how much affirmative action sucks, it's almost impossible to get into the top ivys as a white male, but if you have good grades and scores you'll be able to easily get into some good school.

This...Jimmy, my freshmen year at ND we had 66 black freshmen out of a total of roughly 1900 students, which is 3.47% of the student body. But wait, 40-50% of those students were athletes, so let's just say that 35 of us were "regular" students. That would mean we made up 1.8% of the student body. Notre Dame's line (either that year or the next year) was "Diversity Matters @ ND". I personally didn't care either way, but seriously? We weren't fools. The numbers didn't lie. ND needs to do a better job of seeking out the well qualified minority students, even if some of those schools aren't the top academic high schools in the country. I also get the feeling from some of the comments in this thread that anybody who gets accepted to a school when somebody else doesn't is classified as "un-qualified"...If I'm wrong correct me, but even if true, those students don't account for a significant portion of the incoming student body I'd have to believe. Couldn't those same students be qualified but maybe "less-qualified" than those rejected?


An honest question to the board, if HBCU's were elite institutions or ND had the numbers were flipped, how many of you would feel comfortable enough being there, feeling accepted and embraced only representing 1.8% of the students?

 

[irishroo]

I don't really understand what's controversial about what she says. There are absolutely quotas and entitlements. Everyone knows it. People that know the game have a huge upper-hand and nothing you do in high school has any impact on anything what-so-ever. It's a completely subjective say on which borderline applicant makes it into a school and quotas have a huge impact on the decision.

I just wish they'd look further into it than "he's white" and throw it into the "normal" pile. Diversity isn't always a race issue. Brilliance doesn't always show up in test scores. I met a ton of diverse people at ND even if they weren't all minorities. I never once found a person with nearly the same background as me while I was at ND. I'm white but I'm diverse and you can't tell me otherwise. Just because ND has a majority of white people doesn't mean they are lacking in diversity or don't welcome it.

Slightly off topic, but I also wish more kids would stop applying to 10+ schools when they know they will get into all or the majority of them. I'm not sure what the solution would be but on the macro scale a lot of borderline students may not get the chance they deserve.

Absolutely spot on. Why does diversity have to be strictly a racial thing? I have 3 roommates, one from an old money family in the deep south, one born to a Jewish mother and raised in the heart of New York City, and one a first generation American born to Irish immigrants in the SF bay area. All 4 of us are upper-middle class white Catholic kids, but can anyone really tell me we don't come from diverse backgrounds? I realize race needs to play a part in diversity, but it shouldn't be the only part.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

What happened to your "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" because "life isn't fair" talk from the politics thread. Is that only true when it comes to disadvantaged people? God forbid some white kid didn't get into an Ivy League school. Perhaps they just need to work harder. It cuts both ways my friend.

I'll go ahead and pull my "experience" card that you like to pull on me. Since I was just in college a few years ago and you've got a couple birthdays on me haha...

I don't know what this girl has on her transcript or what she did for the past 4 years. My post wasn't even talking about her situation in particular, so forget her for now.

My post was more general in terms of what college admissions departments are doing, how they're doing it, and why they're doing it.

If student A and student B have the same academic credentials for the school, but student A fulfills a certain "group" or "quota" the school needs to hit for numbers, student A will get accepted and student B will be rejected. Sometimes, student B has even better grades/ scores/ transcript. Happens every day.

 

[GoIrish41]

I'll go ahead and pull my "experience" card that you like to pull on me. Since I was just in college a few years ago and you've got a couple birthdays on me haha...

I don't know what this girl has on her transcript or what she did for the past 4 years. My post wasn't even talking about her situation in particular, so forget her for now.

My post was more general in terms of what college admissions departments are doing, how they're doing it, and why they're doing it.

If student A and student B have the same academic credentials for the school, but student A fulfills a certain "group" or "quota" the school needs to hit for numbers, student A will get accepted and student B will be rejected. Sometimes, student B has even better grades/ scores/ transcript. Happens every day.

I know it happens. It is called affirmative action. I think that it has a foundation in fairness. I suspect that you do not agree with me, but it doesn't exclude anyone. Some just have to work harder to make it into the schools they want to go to. You tell me all the time that life is not fair, that those people simply have to work all the harder to make it. Are you suggesting that this applies to one group and not the other?

 

[pumpdog20]

That's time spent I won't get back.

But, I'm sure she'll have a nice career as a columnist, because she'll bring the shock value.

 

[SaltyND24]

Absolutely spot on. Why does diversity have to be strictly a racial thing? I have 3 roommates, one from an old money family in the deep south, one born to a Jewish mother and raised in the heart of New York City, and one a first generation American born to Irish immigrants in the SF bay area. All 4 of us are upper-middle class white Catholic kids, but can anyone really tell me we don't come from diverse backgrounds? I realize race needs to play a part in diversity, but it shouldn't be the only part.

You're right...100% but that's the first thing people see. That's just the world we live in. It shouldn't be the only thing, but you have to agree that it makes up a large portion of it.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

The other side of the coin is the fact that, aside from taxpayer subsidies, these are largely private institutions that should be free to admit whoever they want.

If they want an all white or all black or all tuba-player or all gymnast student body, then that's between them and their Board of Trustees.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I know it happens. It is called affirmative acation. I think that it has a foundation in fairness. I suspect that you do not agree with me, but it doesn't exclude anyone. Some just have to work harder to make it into the schools they want to go to. You tell me all the time that life is not fair, that those people simply have to work all the harder to make it. Are you suggesting that this applies to one group and not the other?

Its intent was fairness. Its result was unjust and brought more ineqaulity based on the example I gave you in my last post. What's more puzzling is that when these colleges take a student with lower grades/ scores/ etc, it doesn't do anything to improve their school other than that one quota.

That philosophy applies to everyone, but you're comparing apples and oranges. I have zero sympathy for the individual who had opportunities, pissed them away, made bad decisions, was irresponsible, and has no problem with the entitlement mindset of "gimme gimme gimme." I feel bad for the individual who did everything the right way, handled their business, kept their head on straight, and was denied opportunities because of the color of their skin.

Really shocked by your line of "God forbid some white kid didn't get into an Ivy League school." Some of your comments and race baiting on here in the past few weeks is offensive and getting old. Quickly.

Who said it was Ivy? What if it was Pittsburgh? Or IUP? Or Slippery Rock? Again I don't know her particular situation but she didn't say it was Ivy and who cares about her skin color? Anyone denied admission because the school accepted less qualified kids is absolute BS, no matter who you are or your color. She didn't say anything about race but you felt compelled to.

 

[autry_denson]

Hey dude, no need for snark. I'm glad you have strong opinions, but there's nothing wrong with calling out someone for not providing a source. I'm glad you did. It's a good source and contributes something valuable to this discussion.

However, this source does not align exactly with what you said earlier. You said "blacks live...", not "many blacks live..." or "blacks often live..." or "blacks tend to live" or "Statistically, the majority of wealthy blacks live...." When you say what you said, a single counterexample stands as invalidation of argument. I'm not saying that what you were trying to say wasn't true, only that what you said wasn't an argument, just an assertion that tended to the absolute. With your statistical source, you have amended your argument to something that is meaningful, a lot stronger, and honestly, important to the argument. I'm not sure I agree with whether these statistics should be used in college admissions, but if you stop swearing at me when I ask for numbers, perhaps we can get somewhere besides just contentious sarcasm.

apologies for the snark, thanks for the level headed response. Just for clarification I said that "on average" blacks live... This is in fact exactly what they measured in the study: the average neighborhood characteristics of blacks, whites, Hispanics, as measured by simply looking at the overall income level in individuals' neighborhoods weighted by the number of each group above or below the particular income threshold. This calculates out to be the average neighborhood conditions for the group as a whole.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Regarding race in college admissions, there's strong statistical evidence that the Ivies discriminate against some minorities (namely Asians and Jews) in their admissions process.

Express racial quotas are unconstitutional (Cal v. Bakke), but most elite universities still get away with using them by obscuring the process (they claim to consider many factors, of which race is only one, but their racial percentages are suspiciously stable from year to year).

These schools have to maintain the illusion of diversity for a lot of reasons, but they're really most interested in money, which means class tends to be the driving force behind their admissions policies. That's why they expect an absurdly broad range of experience from high school kids-- because only those applicants with wealthy and motivated parents have the resources and guidance necessary to assemble an acceptable resume.

Most of the arguments over Affirmative Action here, both for and against, are based on meritocracy; and rightfully so, since it's a huge part of American mythology. But it's largely bullsh!t when it comes to elite universities. The kids they really want are the future senators, judges, and CEOs; those people overwhelmingly come from wealthy families, so those are the kids that get accepted.

It's important because there's no better way to ensure your children enjoy a stable bourgeois life than to get them into an elite university. But as admissions standards get higher and higher, that path to prosperity is available to fewer and fewer people; it's a symptom of the shrinking opportunity in this country as the top 1% continue the rig the system in their favor.

My wife and I give 5% of our annual pre-tax income to our parish, and the other 5% to ND. We do it partly because we love our alma mater (as an institution, it had a larger impact on our formation as individuals than any other), but also because it increases the chances that our boys will get accepted there in ~15 years (thank God ND reserves 25% of each class for legacies). With the way admissions standards are moving, ND is likely the best school they'll have a shot at getting into by far.

It's an unjust system, but we have no choice but the play the game.

 

[IrishLax]

Join the military!!

Lax - You ever hear from GA Tech?

Haha yeah I got in... with a large academic scholarship too. My essay had far less of an "eff you" tone compared to the summary I gave above. I phrased the whole essay more pondering the point of a college essay/prompt... and also dedicated a few sentences in the middle to answering the prompt under the guise of "I could talk about XYZ in my life, but I don't see why you'd want to read an essay complaining about mundane challenges in my life that are similar to those of hundreds of other applicants."

My guidance counselor told me I was being an idiot. I told her if Georgia Tech rejected me based on my essay then they're the idiots and I didn't feel like spinning a self-indulgent sob story and/or exaggerating challenges I had faced in my life to make myself look like some quasi-heroic figure when I'm just another normal person.

There are plenty of people in this world - members of the military, kids in the "hood" with 7 younger sibling they have to take care of because they have a druggy delinquent single parent, kids with medical problems, etc. - who actually overcome real challenges. Most people? Just superficial and minor trials and tribulations. So that part of her essay (especially citing the "going to Africa" phenomenon) I totally empathize with.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Haha yeah I got in... with a large academic scholarship too. My essay had far less of an "eff you" tone compared to the summary I gave above. I phrased the whole essay more pondering the point of a college essay/prompt... and also dedicated a few sentences in the middle to answering the prompt under the guise of "I could talk about XYZ in my life, but I don't see why you'd want to read an essay complaining about mundane challenges in my life that are similar to those of hundreds of other applicants."

Your essay likely conveyed an exceptional level of self-awareness and sophistication regarding the admissions process that most of their applicants lacked; which probably isn't saying much at GT, since engineers are not known for their social skills. In any case, I'm not surprised you were accepted.

 

[Emcee77]

Your essay likely conveyed an exceptional level of self-awareness and sophistication regarding the admissions process that most of their applicants lacked; which probably isn't saying much at GT, since engineers are not known for their social skills. In any case, I'm not surprised you were accepted.

I agree -- depending on how it was written the essay you describe could come off as a) lazily unimaginative, b) immaturely contemptuous of the admissions process, or c) very maturely and humbly aware of your own privileged upbringing ... I'm willing to bet that yours came off as c).